Where do I turn???

[justine1]

Hi everyone

 

Sorry I seem to keep posting the same thing over and over but dont know where else to turn. Okay as I mentioned in my other post I moved from Bedfordshire to Buckinghamshire four weeks ago. Before I left the Beds SEN officer contacted the Bucks SEN officer,I sent in my lease agreement and they began to look for an ASD unit for Sam.

 

I have called the SEN team five times,spoken to three different people,they keep passing me on.Anyway the lady I spoke to today could tell how annoyed I am and called me back after 2 hours,to basically tell me what I already know. They have applied to one school thats all!! I am not keen on the school AT ALL!!! According to the lady there are no ASD places at any other school in the whole of the county!! She said he CANNOT attend mainstream due to his obvious challenging behaviour and special school may not be suitable as he will pick up negative behaviours,apparently the school is divided into LD (which Sam doesnt have) and behaviour problems(which is not ASD exclusive can be "those who just want to mis behave" as she put it)

 

So what I need to know is what on earth do I do and who do I speak to? This lady is apparently top in the SEN department and so everything she has said seems to be what I will hear from anyone else. I just feel I am in a situation where I have no choice for Sams education,this cant be right surely? But what do I do about it? Thank you.

[Saneasever]

Hi. Not sure if they'll be of any use, but have you tried 'Parent Partnership' - I think they offer advice/information/help on school related issues. Hope it helps...

[Sally44]

When placing a child with an SEN the LEA has to find one that is the best use of its resources, and the placement must not be to the detriment of other pupils.

So those are the arguments that they will use about other schools ie. they cost too much, or there is one nearer where they would not need to pay the cost of transport, or placing him at xxx school would be to the detriment of other pupils. So if he has shown disruptive behaviour, they will say that would affect the other pupils in another placement.

 

However, you do not just have to take what they say. You do have a choice. But the LEA may simply refuse your choice and you would have to go to a tribunal about that and you would have to prove that the school you want is the ONLY one that can meet his needs.

 

Not liking a certain school is not a good enough reason. You need to get details as to why it is not suitable and cannot meet his needs. You might argue that on the grounds that those in the unit are working at a lower level that your son. But that could be the same of other autism units too.

 

If he does have around average academic achievement then a placement in a MLD school may also not be appropriate for that same reason. But I do know of some parents that have still chosen that type of school for the environment and lowered anxiety that resulted from that.

 

First I would speak with organisations like IPSEA and the NAS. IPSEA especially will be able to tell you exactly what your rights are and what the timescales are too.

 

The LEA will have to work with the kind of placement itemised in section 4 of his Statement. If that says ASD unit then that is what it has to be. But that gives you the choice of any ASD unit. If you prefer a different one you can say that. The LEA will refuse. And you would have to go to tribunal about the placement and you would need to prove why your choice was the only one that met his needs and the other one could not.

 

The professional that looks at the school is the Educational Psychologist. You may need an independent one to detail in a report what his needs are and why he needs your choice of school. If the Panel find in your favour they can instruct the school to fund a further place.

 

I can't remember what age your child is, or what his specific difficulties are, or why you do not like the ASD unit the LEA is suggesting. Talk with IPSEA and decide whether this is a fight worth fighting at this stage. At the moment he is not getting any schooling, and you need to give the LEA some timescale for a response. And you already know what that response will be.

 

If the school the LEA has asked for then say that they have no places, then you could ask for the placement you want or look at independent ASD schools or out of county schools. But remember that the LEA is always going to go with the cheapest option.

 

The EP or you, need to look in precise detail at the two placements and see what the differences are that would make your preferred choice the ONLY one. For example if your son would not cope with being fed into mainstream and the LEAs choice does that, then that would form part of your argument and vica versa. You need to know how many pupils each ASD unit/school has, the group size he would be taught in (does that tie in with what the Statement says ie. taught in groups of 6-8 peers), the teacher/TA ratio, the academic level of the pupils, the EP/SALT funding the school receives, the teaching approaches they use, the qualifications of the teachers etc. Look at the Ofsted reports for these schools.

 

But remember you do have a choice. When the LEA says there is no choice available you can still go to tribunal for your choice. But consider the argument the LEA will use about resources and being a detriment to other pupils. You need facts to back up your case and not just that you 'like' the other one better. What is it about the other school that you 'like' that makes it the placement he needs.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Sally44

[bid]

What did the heads say to you about provision/places when you looked round before you moved?

 

Bid

Edited December 17, 2010 by bid

[justine1]

What did the heads say to you about provision/places when you looked round before you moved?

 

Bid

Thank you Bid and Sally for your response <'> I never went to see any of the schools before I moved because they wouldnt even start the application process before I had a lease agreement which was just 2 days before we moved.

 

I have not been stalling because I dont like the school,I have not been told whether I could see the school,which is why I kept calling them,I never got any straight answers. So as far as timescale goes its all down to them not me! I asked them if I can see the school today but they (the LEA) refused as they said it was the last day of term and wouldnt be practical!!! So it means I can only see the school in January,she did say that if I agree to either the ASD unit or the special school ,it will take a week to process everything and then he can start.

 

I accept he cannot attend just a mainstream as he will be disruptive, but I dont fully agree that he cannot attend the special school,its a brilliant school, the SEN officer eventually agreed I should see it and decide if that is better for him.So I do have the choice of the ASD unit or the special school. Clearly she was putting me off the special school as it will cost more but she could tell I was annoyed. I am happy that I have a choice of two schools but would have liked to see more ASD units,not just one because I know how they vary.

I dont really know how I can prove the school is not good for him if there is no other school to compare to? I guess all I can do is wait until the new year and see from there,I just feel really upset as the unit he was at was wonderful and I now regret moving!

[bid]

You don't need the permission of the LA to visit the school/s. Just ring the school/s directly, say you are new to the area, and are looking round possible schools.

 

I did this a few years back when we were thinking of moving.

 

Bid

Edited December 17, 2010 by bid

[justine1]

You don't need the permission of the LA to visit the school/s. Just ring the school/s directly, say you are new to the area, and are looking round possible schools.

 

I did this a few years back when we were thinking of moving.

 

Bid

I tried that 2 months before hand and the three schools I approached said I need to speak to the LEA

[bid]

I tried that 2 months before hand and the three schools I approached said I need to speak to the LEA

 

Hmmm, weird...never happened to me before and I've done it twice but maybe a different county?

 

Bid

[justine1]

Its very annoying! I also know that the Headteachers seem to be unaware that they have to notify the LEA when someone leaves their school,its a new system, therefore there may be space at a school but the LEA think its full.

I just went through this with my eldest who attends a mainstream. It took the LEA two weeks to tell me whether he has a school place and then it ended up a school that is 30min walk away!! Thereafter I asked the closer school (5min) to keep his name on a waiting list,the were surprised as they have a space so I quickly swapped schools.

 

So I would like to phone up the schools myself really but it seems everyone is very confused about what is going on! I dont even have a list of the ASD units, I managed to find one from the NAS website and I know the special school already so that was by chance they would never have mentioned it otherwise!

 

Thank you all so much x

[Kathryn]

As far as the ordinary mainstream admissions process is concerned, this is the first year where "in year" admissions have to be coordinated by LEA's - before you could usually go directly to the school. maybe this explains the confusion and the delay - they aren't sure what they're doing yet. This wouldn't affect special schools though. It's annoying you couldn't look round before the end of term. You could complain formally about the delay but it's unlikely to get you anywhere fast as the schools are now shut anyway. Hopefully there will be a swift resolution next term!

 

K x

[justine1]

As far as the ordinary mainstream admissions process is concerned, this is the first year where "in year" admissions have to be coordinated by LEA's - before you could usually go directly to the school. maybe this explains the confusion and the delay - they aren't sure what they're doing yet. This wouldn't affect special schools though. It's annoying you couldn't look round before the end of term. You could complain formally about the delay but it's unlikely to get you anywhere fast as the schools are now shut anyway. Hopefully there will be a swift resolution next term!

 

K x

Thank you Kathryn <'> I did use the advice you gave me from the previous post, when I spoke to the SEN officer I did say if they dont tell me wwhat is going on I will be getting in touch with the director of childrens services and the MP,hence her relatively quick response.

 

To be honest I can appreciate how long finding a school place will take, however all I would have wanted is someone to let me know week to week what is going on,not to pass me from one person to the next and get no straight answers.

 

I am sorry to complain,I just feel so stressed over the whole thing and I now have to beg my father and brother to look after him in the new year when I return to Uni. Thank you <'>

[Sally44]

I have never heard of not being allowed to visit a school. I'm currently visiting all potential secondary schools and have not been refused.

Maybe if you spoke to the SENCO or Head of those schools and explained that you are not 'definately' after a place at their school, but as your child has SEN you need to visit a number of schools and see the provision they have BEFORE you make your parental choice. Otherwise your 'choice' is not based on any experience of the school.

Also speak with IPSEA about this and also the Parent Partnership (as the PP are part of the LEA they should be able to explain the LEAs policy and tell you how to get around this deadlock. Put everything in writing and keep everything on file).

You might be able to approach it from another direction and say that the Code of Practice talks about 'parental' choice of school and that as your child has a Statement you need to visit the schools in your area to ascertain which school can fulfill that Statement???

Parental choice has to be based in facts and you can't get them without visiting.

I don't know off the top of my head if there is anything else in the CoP that might be useful to use.

But definately speak with IPSEA and ask them to tell you how to word a letter to the appropriate person, with a deadline by which they must have responded (7 or 14 days is usual).

Edited December 18, 2010 by Sally44

[Sally44]

Whatever school the LEA names, I believe that would be classed as an amendment to the Statement and you have the right of appeal to SEND. But check that with IPSEA or phone SEND themselves.

[justine1]

Whatever school the LEA names, I believe that would be classed as an amendment to the Statement and you have the right of appeal to SEND. But check that with IPSEA or phone SEND themselves.

Thank you This is most helpful <'>

[bid]

Just asked DH who is a senior teacher at a school for complex learning difficulties and he confirmed that they have parents looking round just to see if they like the school 'on spec', so not really sure what's going on here for Justine

 

Bid

Edited December 18, 2010 by bid

[justine1]

Just asked DH who is a senior teacher at a school for complex learning difficulties and he confirmed that they have parents looking round just to see if they like the school 'on spec', so not really sure what's going on here for Justine

 

Bid

It could be the county I dont know! The county I lived in before allowed me to come in and see the schools, the ASD units and the special schools,I chose not to look at the special school as PP told me it wasnt very good but that it was merging with another school and maybe I should look again in two years, my point being at least I was given that option. Here its just not happening.

 

When I ask they say if I am interested I need to phone the SEN team and they dont allow visits unless I am chosing them to go on the statement

[justine1]

OMG My ex contacted the SEN officer and told him he does not want Sam to attend a unit and not a special school,he wants him to go to mainstream with no support I am so How can he do this??? They have disregarded everything I have said!!!! What do I do now????????????????????

[bid]

Oh lord

 

Do you share parental responsibility? Do you have any court ruling about this?

 

Don't know what to advise other than to seek legal advice as this is a complex area

 

Bid <'>

[Kazzen161]

The LA should be guided by what the Statement says - your ex would have had an opportunity to contribute towards the Statement and his opinions would have been taken into account then.

[coolblue]

 

Also speak with IPSEA about this and also the Parent Partnership (as the PP are part of the LEA they should be able to explain the LEAs policy and tell you how to get around this deadlock. Put everything in writing and keep everything on file).

 

 

 

Minor technical point but Parent Partnerships are supposed to be independent organisations in order to remain in a position to give impartial advice. Some are funded by the LA, some use LA offices, but they are still not part of it. Ours was initially funded independently and still occupies a building shared with other voluntary sector organisations.

 

cb

[justine1]

The LA should be guided by what the Statement says - your ex would have had an opportunity to contribute towards the Statement and his opinions would have been taken into account then.

Thank you <'> He did have the opportunity but he didnt do anything at the time,only after it was issued he didnt agree that he needs all that support. He doesnt accept Sams dx at all! Even though there are so many professionals involved.

 

Thank you Bid <'> I sent an email to the SEN officer who sent the letter to me and hope she hasnt told the schools I am not interested,given it was the last day of school I am sure all will be okay. I said to my ex if he wants him to go to mainstream then it will be his responsibilty when things go pear shaped,I refuse to fetch him from school unless he is ill! Thank you for your advice and support means alot x

[bid]

Good luck Justine...a horrible situation, and I hope the NY brings better news all round.

 

Bid <'>