starting a fire

[Enid]

hi, its a long time since I needed help on this forum, used to log on every night in despair! so for those who dont know. my son is nearly 16, has a diagnosis of ASD/MLD/ADHD. He takes 4 mg of resperidone and 100mg of stattera every day, prior to this life was impossible and very dangerous, for me, him and the littles and anyone else who got in the way....

 

long story short, we were staying in our caravan for a few days, he wanted to do something, we didnt, he sulked, we went, he set the caravan on fire!!!!!!!! Luckily I came back afte 5 mins and stood outside listening to see what he was doing, and the alarm went off, even so it has done some damage. I know I shouldnt have gone, am usually more on the ball, but this has knocked me sideways. on the way home, I told him I would not keep it quiet and would be discussing it with CAHMS, he tried to jump out of car on the motorway, its years since he did this.

[Kathryn]

Oh Enid, good to see you but so sorry to hear this. Hope there is some way of bringing home to him the seriousness of this. Do you think it's just an isolated "blip" or is there a bigger underlying problem?

 

K x

[Enid]

Hi Kathryn, wish I knew, it came from nowhere. but not sure if I should have called the police? have told him I am thinking about the consequence, but it could have been really serious.

[puffin]

Really I think that you need professional help to get to the bottom of this escalation - have you called his doctors for an emergency appoinntment

[Sally44]

Arson is serious. I think it is one of those things that if found guilty of, you can be kept in jail [or in some institution] indefinately because you are a risk to the public. Can he tell you why he did it? What was he trying to do, burn the caravan but get out himself? Can he talk through the consequences? I would talk with CAHMS and not involve the police at the moment.

[baddad]

My guess would be he knew you were hanging about outside the caravan (either because he had heard/seen you or because patterns of such behaviour are so clearly established that it would have been predictable) and set the smoke alarm off as a defiant gesture...

Had he actually intended setting the caravan ablaze as an act of arson he would have started the fire in a bedroom or something with plenty of combustible material, checked to make sure no one was about to stop it, and he would have succeeded...

 

Trying to jump out of the car on the motorway also sounds like a very controlling, very considered behaviour. Quite simply, if anyone had any actual intent of jumping from a moving car they would discretely remove their seat belt then simultaneously open the door and roll through it before anyone else in the car had time to notice or react...

 

That's not to say that the behaviours should be ignored, but I think at the moment the behaviours and your responses to them are probably an escalating game of 'like for like' where incidents will become more dramatic (and dramatically interpreted) until someone is hurt or some real damage is done.

 

You have said

Have told him I am thinking about the consequence, but it could have been really serious...

. Did you decide yet what the consequence should be and have you enacted it, or has it all just, effectively, been forgotten? And if the consequence is yet to be enacted, what will you do if he makes some other threat - either to you/your property or some sort of self harm?

 

In essence the few days away you wanted are now over and he's dictated that. Sounds to me like the balance of power is all wrong, but you won't put it right without a struggle. Best with that.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Enid]

Hi, thanks for the replies,

 

he did intend to burn it down ,as he went out, but had lit a piece of paper and put it down the back of the sofa between two cushions, also I dont think he was expecting me to come back as we have had a pretty uneventful few years, I often leave him unsupervised for short periods when he dosnt want to come places with us, especially when we are at the caravan. I would like to think he was doing it for effect but think I would be fooling myself. I phoned security on the caravan site for help as could smell burning, but couldnt see anything. then went out to look for J, the security man told me it would have gone up in flames if he hadnt been there, as it was, the sofa and cushions are burnt.

 

re car, we didnt leave the caravan, which is ours, till the following day which was always the plan. I agree re jumping out of the car, used to do that in the bad old days and I did just ignore it and kept driving, even tuning radio up.

 

now, consequences; this was my reason for posting really, for advice, ideas, etc etc I dont think this can go by without a serious consequenc, but am worried that once I tell anyone in authority, it may be taken out of my hands.

 

I am devasted by this, but hoping am not showing it to the children.

[baddad]

Hi again Enid -

 

If you genuinely believe it was an act of arson, then I think you have to tell someone that. Not necessarily the police, but it should be recorded somewhere and it should be investigated by a professional.

 

Arson is a wilful act of setting fire to property, either for malicious intent (revenge, defiance, whatever) or, more commonly, if setting fire to your own property, for insurance purposes. As an act of malice or retribution it's likely to be used repeatedly if the person doing it isn't caught or if there are no or only minor consequences.

 

Pyromania, on the other hand, is an impulse control disorder - a recognised mental illness, enacted to relieve tension, for gratification and (emotional) reward. That said, it has an incidence of less than 1%, so chances are it's the former, or, IMO (despite the sofa/cushion) more likely to be 'politically' motivated - i.e. to maintain or reinforce the family dymnamic that allows him to be in control.

 

The only one of those where not telling someone in 'authority' would seem feasible or reasonable would be the last, but you do need to come down very hard on it if it's not going to become adopted as a useful strategy for future stand-offs.

 

As I've said, if you genuinely believe it is arson or pyromania I don't think you've got any choice, because it may not be directed towards you next time and it may have consequences that go beyond the burning of an empty caravan. In either case you've still got to 'come down hard' as far as sanctions go (you can't just assume a psychological motive from a single incident and either way a clear message needs to be delivered), but you've also got to think of the implications of a bigger fire, and a scenario where you have to admit he's started fires before but you did (in their eyes) nothing about it...

 

Sanction. Whatever he likes doing most he doesn't do for the foreseeable future (at least the whole w/e IMO) with the term spelled out and rigidly adhered to. if he kicks up or escalates, tack on another day, and if necessary /possible remove the favourite thing completely. Equally important, no almost but not quite as good alternative distraction provided; i.e. if you take his games console away he doesn't just get to spend that additional time on the PC gaming online or whatever. make sure the distraction is something he doesn't like - something nice and healthy like gardening, or 'community service' like housework/chores.

 

HTH

 

BD

[Enid]

Hi, on this occassion I dont believe it was "an episode" as I call his wierd and strange behaviour, I believe it was, as you say, a control thing, which is why I am so worried, especially over so minor an incident.

 

I immediately removed his laptop, for the forseeable future, he is not interested in games etc, and loves gardening,! I have also told him his spending money for the next few weeks/months will go towards the repairs, I have also emailed his consultant at CAHMS. who has made a appointment to see us next tuesday, so all thats in hand, but unusually, for me! I do feel very concerned that I am not taking this seriously enough, I also feel very nervous that it could happen agsin if I dont "get it right" this time.

[Kathryn]

It may be a bit late this time round but involving the police may not be a bad thing as it may bring home to him that this is a criminal and dangerous act which will have serious consequences out there in the world. A warning from the police may suffice. You could always threaten to do this if he doesn't comply with whatever sanction you impose.

 

K x

Edited June 3, 2011 by Kathryn

[baddad]

Hi, on this occassion I dont believe it was "an episode" as I call his wierd and strange behaviour, I believe it was, as you say, a control thing, which is why I am so worried, especially over so minor an incident.

 

I immediately removed his laptop, for the forseeable future, he is not interested in games etc, and loves gardening,! I have also told him his spending money for the next few weeks/months will go towards the repairs, I have also emailed his consultant at CAHMS. who has made a appointment to see us next tuesday, so all thats in hand, but unusually, for me! I do feel very concerned that I am not taking this seriously enough, I also feel very nervous that it could happen agsin if I dont "get it right" this time.

 

Sounds like you've got the bases covered, but make sure you stick to your guns with the money/laptop.

 

Complete aside from the topic in question, but just wanted to say what a positive and potentially rewarding thing gardening is if he likes it. Lots of potential social opportunities from something like a 'gardening club' or community project, and a possible career path for the future. Dunno how you fare for a garden, but if you have one and he's not already doing it you could perhaps give it over to him (or a part of it) as a personal project for him. Responsibility for something like that could provide a huge sense of purpose, pride, self-esteem and even self management. If you haven't already, an interest well worth cultivating, if you'll excuse the pun!

On the back of that, if you haven't got a garden then are there local allotments or anything in the way of community projects he could sign up for? I know Huge Chumley-Duckingstool is heading some sort of national garden/common ground share on one of his websites, so probably worth a look there.

 

HTH

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited June 3, 2011 by baddad

[Enid]

re gardening!

 

Yes, we have a huge garden, and greenhouse, all my children have plots, and an area of the greenhouse, we also have chickens, which are free range, and always trashing things but I cant bare to fence them in! we have 2 dogs 2 cats and 2 tortoises also. all my 3 younger kids are in the garden playing together at the moment, I am always amazed, and pleased at how quickly the younger two get over the things J does, I am sure it must affect them at some leval, but they seem very accepting/understanding of the dramas that unfold.

 

re fire.

 

Have told J that if he is not prepared to discuss the incident fully at Cahms on Tuesday that all privelidges will be withdrawn, I have talked the whole incident through with him today for the first time, when I asked for his assurance it wouldnt happen again he replied "I didnt know I was going to do it the first time so am scared it will happen again", Now THAT answer does worry me, it wasnt said in a cheeky/clever way either.

[Enid]

It may be a bit late this time round but involving the police may not be a bad thing as it may bring home to him that this is a criminal and dangerous act which will have serious consequences out there in the world. A warning from the police may suffice. You could always threaten to do this if he doesn't comply with whatever sanction you impose.

 

K x

 

not sure if it is too late, we only got home last night and the incident happened wednesday. If we had been at home I think I would have involved the police, but the thought of him being locked up! if he was, away from home and all the complications that would involve were all too much at the time. I have actually told him that if if happens again he would no longer be able to live at home, he looked stricken, and so he should, because wether he could help it or not, and I think he could, the fear factor would make life impossible..... I will wait to see what CAHMS have to say on Tuesday, I have emailed them a full account, it will be taken very seriously I think I just hope it isnt taken out of my hands if they think the younger two are at risk.

[JsMum]

Hi Enid.

 

I would recommend contacting your local Fire Authority as some areas offer the FACE project.

 

http://www.westsussex.gov.uk/living/emergencies/fire_and_rescue_service/safety_and_learning_for_young/fire_awareness_and_community.asp

 

Jay has accessed this service and it is a real eye opener to the dangers of fire.

 

As your J did this act under extream behavioural issues such as control/power I found this that maybe helpful

 

http://kar.kent.ac.uk/18700/

 

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all?content=10.1080/10683169608409774

 

As I have said there is always a reason to a underlying behaviour, all the punishments in the world may not stop him, plenty of prisoners set fires to their cells, so all your doing is transfering the problem if this becomes a more frequent problem and if you do have to come to the decision he can no longer live at home and he is placed somewhere else there is nothing stopping him setting fire to the next placement so compelling the issues he has with control and power, I feel personally he needs stratagies and techneques to learn to deal with not getting his own way or been left alone, actually look at ways he can cope with situations rather than acting on the after event.

 

Josh has attempted to set fire to his first primary school, even went into the girls changing rooms so he wouldnt get caught, he was five years old, the headteacher just caught him in time, god knows what would of happened if he had succeeded.

 

Also the fire authority maybe able to do a risk assessment of the home to ensure that if any further fires do accur that you have the nessasary fire safety equiptment in the home.

 

I recommend that you look at what support the CAMHS can also offer in reguards councilling or Art Therapy so he can express his frustrations, fears and thoughts without resorting to using fire to vent out his anger/distress.

 

 

This is defo something you can not ignore, where ever he is.

 

JsMumxxx

[Enid]

Thanks Jsmum, as usual very informative info. I have my appointment tomorrow and will talk it through but will def ring my local fire dept and ask if they do that course and for an assessment.

 

He has been fine since but if I hadnt popped back ,the caravan would have gone up. Yesterday I smelt smoke and flew into a panic racing round the house, it was a bonfire outside, but it has really made me very nervous.

 

These J`s of ours dont half put us through it!!!!

 

Hope all is well with you.

[Enid]

Well I met with CAHMS, same old same old really, they are going to "do some work" with him re fire safety, and get him with the fire scheme etc, I dont think they thought it was as serious as I did.

 

Tonight on the way to collect him from school we had to pull over for a poice car, we jokingly said, "whats he done now" well it was for him, he had "kicked off" at school, head butted a teacher, had to be restained by 6 members of staff, then absconded through the fire doors, he was found as we arrived, and was spoken to by the police, by that time he had calmed down and looked both horrifed and terrified, I could see the police were wondering what all the fuss was about! The school have said he is upping the ante this term, have to agree, but have so many sanctions in place there is not much else I can do, also, there is only me at home, I hant got 6 people to hold him down so have to make sure we dont get to that situation, which I do usually mange by keeping everyting calm, being firm and very consistant with the boundaries.

 

heigh ho.

[Sally44]

What kind of school is he at?

Sorry if you've already posted that, but I can't remember.

[Enid]

A special school, only 6 to each class, even so he is usually taught alone.

[Sally44]

What did your son say had happened that led to him head butting the teacher?

 

I presume this special school is for children with his range of diagnoses?

 

Has he ever been taught the 'right way' to respond to certain things, and has that been generalised and reinforced and revisited. And by that I mean by a qualified professional rather than just an in-school programme led by a TA.

 

My son tends to use things he has seen on TV as 'appropriate responses' to certain situations when they are not appropriate at all. But he does not know what he should actually do. So every time we get what I would term "a TV response" to something I have to sit down with him (when calm) and go through it verbally and practically so that he knows what he should do and say. And of course it has to be practised again and again. I caught my own son trying to "run away" again at 2.30am the other morning. And because I know how predictable he is, I stayed awake, waiting for him trying to run away because I knew that was what he would do, because that is what he sees on TV as being the typical response when you get upset or fall out with someone. There is no TV programme I know of that when people fall out or get upset, they sit down and chat about it over a cup of tea and everyone sorts it out!

 

And alot of behaviour is so impulsive and not thought through at all. I don't know what else to suggest other than what you are already doing and just going over and over what he should say and what he should do. But if he does not generalise, or recognise similar situations and adapt what he knows, then all you can do is keep going over and over it. And maybe limit things he does have access to via the TV or computer games that might be giving him these ideas of what is appropriate behaviour or language, when actually it isn't at all and will get him into trouble.