Destructive behaviour

[Emum]

Hi, I am a new member. I have been lurking for a few weeks now and have found the board to be a great source of info and advice.

 

I have a four year old daughter with ASD, who is non-verbal, and a five year old NT son. Generally speaking my daughter is a real sweetheart, but she has one behaviour which is driving us all mad - she keeps ripping her brother's books into tiny shreds. We've tried all the obvious solutions like putting the books on a high shelf, locking them up, giving her scrap paper to rip but she seems to find ways round all of these, especially as my son can sometimes be careless about putting his books away. Has anyone had a similar problem and found a solution? Any advice would be very welcome

[lorryw]

Hi Emum

Sorry havent any answers but just wanted to say hello.

Just a thought. Does she have any books of her own? Perhaps you could buy her some books from a charity shop to deflect her from her brothers. Its not an answer only a compromise and youve probably already tried it but worth a try.

Loraine

[tizzmeclare]

Hi Emum,

 

Welcome to the forum. I am afraid, like lorry, I don't have any experience of this behaviour, I just wanted to say hi.

 

Just a thought, moving on with Lorry's idea, if you did get some books from either a charity shop or jumble sale (so it doesn't matter if they get torn) you could put some of them in your son's room, for her to rip. I know this idea doesn't stop the behaviour, but at least it might save a few of your son's books.

 

Oh, one more thought - how about a small lock at the top of your son's bedroom door?

 

These are probably things you have already tried, so sorry if I've gone over old ground. There are some very knowledgable people here in the forum, with so much experience between them, someone is sure to read your post and offer you some sound advice, or at the very least gone through something similar and let you know that your not alone.

 

Best wishes, hope to see you around the forum, tizz

[elainem]

Hi,

 

do you think it is a sensory seeking behaviour? Maybe if she has something else to rip or shred that is "allowed". Sorry, can't really think of anything else.

 

Elaine

[George]

Hi Emum,

 

As elainem said it sound like sensory seeking, my four year old son does this a lot, he just loves the sound - the problem with this one is as you say it is destructive, I don?t mind my sons participating in activities that seem strange as long as they do not impinge on any other family member and are not destructive ? before my son developed a little more speech, he used to use various things like this as a way of communication ? it might be helpful if you made a note of when she is most prone to this activity, when it happens and what happens just before and just after - because it is serving a purpose for her, you just have to figure out what, my son used to do this very near mealtimes, introducing an afternoon snack helped.

 

Does she like books in general or is she more interested in other things?

 

George

[Emum]

Thanks for all the thoughts. I agree that it is most likely a sensory issue, but am having difficulties finding an appropriate alternative outlet for it. She used to love all kinds of books and take immense care of them - in fact her psych once remarked on a home visit how well she looked after them but about six months ago she went beserk and started tearing everything she could get her hands on. Now we only let her have board books in her room, but this is a short term measure as they are really too babyish for her. She seems to do it when she has spent some time on her own, so perhaps it is an attention seeking behaviour - problem is she gets up in the middle of the night and does it then so we cannot always be around her.

[Zemanski]

does she like the smell of books? - they have a very special smell and it is probably stronger when you rip them

 

if it is smell you might find giving her other things to sniff might distract her or she may find something that smells even better - a musky essential oil perhaps that could be put on a handkerchief?

 

just another angle

 

Zemanski

[call me jaded]

My 11 y/o son does this. He also empties every CD, video, DVD from the case and destroys the case, including ripping out the paper insert and tearing that. He also empties book shelves (did this at the weekend), throwing books down one at a time, spent a time emptying out drawers which was thankfully short-lived.

 

Don't know what is at the root of this but I suspect visual processing problems: too much info to take in, words moving on the page or some other 'visual dyslexia' type problem, so he removes the stimulus. I suspect he feels quite ill/dizzy at all the visual stimulus. When he entered a large room he used to crouch down to cope.

 

We have removed everything from bedroom his apart from a bed (!), chest of drawers and a TV, ancient video player and five or six tapes (no cases). He is happy with it like this.

 

With books we managed to confine the ripping to magazines only. I'm not sure how we managed this. I know for a while we had very few books because I got tried of putting them all back on the shelves every night after he went to bed. We have a cupboard at the top of our stairs which is full of books we want to keep, the rest has gone to charity. We have a small shelf of books in our 'playroom' and it is these that he emptied over the floor. My daughter has her special books tucked away in a couple of shoe boxes. It has taught her to look after things she treasures.

 

During the period without books I made him a photo album story book about his day and it really became his treasured possession. It was an A4 display folder and really quite robust. We read it every evening.

 

So no solution from us, other than remove the stimulation.

[baddad]

Hi e mum -

Going with the sensory thing, it could be worth keeping an eye on a 'ripping session' to try and highlight what part of the process is giving her the 'reward'. It IS a lovely sound, but it could also be the sensation (initial tension, then release...) or even the visual thing of seeing the tear snake down the page... With the latter especially, it could actually be an example of Rote Learning, where she is testing to see if the result (length/shape of tear) is in any way predictable.

If you CAN id the part of the process that she really enjoys, it may be easier to find an acceptable (to you and her) alternative. Ripping sounds could be emulated with an old zipper, tension/release could perhaps use a piece of string, and if it's visual you might be able to achieve a compromise with Pen and paper - drawing lines on the latter rather than tearing lines down it.

Of course, it's probably something completely different, but a good observation session might pay didvidends whatever's going on.

L&P

BD

[Busyknitter]

Hi Emum

 

My 3.5 yr old rips his own books up. It's usually a book that has been a complete favorite, so it may be a response to some kind of sensory overload. But to be perfectly honest i think I just he does it carelessly every now and again for the sheer fun of it.

 

Fraid I've got no advice on how to stop it. Once a book has had more than a couple of pages taken out, we bin it. So I'm always scouring bric-a-brac stalls for second-hand picture books.

 

He has also recently started to home in on DVD cases

 

BK

[forbsay]

Hello Emum

 

One of the nursery nurses who help me with my son said her older son ripped up books. She said that what she did was got a box and let him rip up certain books so that satisfied his desire for this but meant that everything wasn't getting ripped up in sight.

 

I have tried this "box policy" before and it works. My son used to be obsessed with Thomas the tank socks - he would go on and on about it. So, I bought a box and put the socks into it. He was allowed to take the box with him to nursery and look at his socks but not to touch. This practice took a fair wee while to work but he is not as obsessed with his socks now!

 

Hope this message makes sense as I am really really tired!

 

Elaine

[Viper]

Probably a totaly useless idea but here goes anyway. Could you teach her how to use scissors and give her some old magazines or catalouges that she can use to cut out pictures and stick them onto paper. My son loves to do this and it gives him hours of stimulation. Of course she may find that books cut up easily too but if you use the box idea and get her to stick to these she may feel she has her own special thing.

 

Viper.