Intellectualize

[andrwg]

Hello!

 

Are you familiar with the term 'intellectualize'?

 

In 1968, when I was six years old, the teacher in pre-elementary one year class said that I was intellectualizing.

 

I am not sure of the substance within this term.

Could it possibly be related to the fact that I cognitively try to reflect; to sort out and register social stimuli, instead of responding emotionally to them?

 

I always feel I have to reflect cognitively prior to participate emotionally, regarding social interaction. Otherwise I feel it is socially speaking like an unknown map without knowing how to navigate, expressed differently like trying to learn a new, unknown language.

Really, I rarely respond emotionally to a full extent, relaxing completely, together with persons, as the direct eye-to-eye contact appears more like an 'exam situation'; being there to 'perform'.

Does it make sense?

Edited August 17, 2005 by andrwg

[Carol]

I think I understand what you mean - I am an NT - and whenever I attend one of my (many ) meetings about my son, I do a lot of talking - but for example the last one some quite strong suggestions were made & I found myself not responding to them - I had to go away and it wasn't until a couple of days later when I had analysed all the comments I wrote a very reasoned and details response to all the comments - but I had to go away and reflect on it before being able to respond.

 

I do also feel that I wish I had been able to say all this at the time, I mean I know how I feel, I am just much more articulate on paper (apart from when I waffle on here -I do understand what you mean about having to "perform", I used to be really shy and going to some of our works parties was really hard & it was like putting on a performance I felt like I was outside looking in telling myself to chat more and ask questions etc. although I have to say as far as my sons meetings go I think that part of it is to do with hating conflict as it is such a way of life at home I can't stand the thought of dealing with it anywhere else.

 

lol here I go again waffling on - I think that is what you are meaning

 

Carol

[forbsay]

Hello

 

Gosh i can so relate to you!

 

Elaine

[andrwg]

 

When I come into a social situation, I first have to sort out what I actually perceive before I can respond and participate emotionally "just there", and to sort out, I intellectialize, I reason cognitively.

[Klou]

I wonder if this explains my son's language problems. We wondered if he understands fully what is said hence the speech/language assessment however he does understand it just takes him a while to answer.

 

If asked if he wants juice at someone's house he can take ages to answer. Sometimes the person answering gives up usually when I give an immediate answer for him. Twenty minutes later he appears saying yes he would like some juice. It happens with other things too. Like in a restaurant he has no idea of the importance of giving a quick reply to the question fish fingers or chicken nuggets.

 

He must be intellectualising what he is told/asked.

 

Actually my husband and I do it too. We cannot make a decision until we have thought about it carefully.

 

Ordering food in restaurants is the worst. Waiting staff usually have to come back a few times until we decide. Most people seem to just pick something. I have to go through whether I could make that at home, what I had last night etc before I decide!

[Lucas]

I have the same problem when eating out. The problem is synthesia again; when I'm thinking about each thing on the menu my senses do another swap over and I become indecisive. If I fancy chicken, I think about chicken, the taste of chicken appears in my mouth and now I no longer want chicken as the mystery seems to have vanished, then beef, then skewers, then ribs, fish, etc.

 

There is also a problem with the combinations set meals can come in. I don't like peas, so I don't want any meal with peas, the only meals without peas are the chicken tikka and lasagne, I don't like lasagne and I'm bored of having tikka everytime. I could order something else and ask for it without peas but then I'm getting LESS but still paying the full price!

 

Eating out is a moral dilemma as it forces the unthinking masses into an Owellian 'permenant revolution' distracting them from their own sense of helplessness and despair! If only they could see that the menu is not giving them choice, but imprisoning them within it's narrow pea-filled walls.

 

It was easier to vote in the last election than it was to decide dinner.

[Delyth]

Thanks everyone - this might explain why it takes my partner ages to decide if he wants a cup of tea when asked. I always wondered what the issue might be or what was going on inside his head prior to answering...now I know and will give him the time he needs. Well, up to a point...

[CarerQuie]

I tend to do this if asked for an opinion.I like to weigh up all viewpoints fully to be certain of what I think.xx

[andrwg]

I try to reflect logically and cognitively both prior to what I say and do and always after. Much energy I always put in trying to analyze what impact it might have had.

Generally, I fail to participate socially because I need very much time to be able to sort out what I in fact perceive, ergo what is going on, and ,really I am almost unable to grasp what happens in social interaction because I don't understand the social clues, codes, the irony, jokes and understatements.

 

Could I be intellectualizing because I don't understand what is going on between people?

[Minxygal]

Maybe this explains some of the reason that my son is unable to tell me what sort of day he's had when he comes out of school. Give him a few hours to run it all through his head and he'll chat quite happily.

[andrwg]

I am using much time reflecting on which impact my words will have, so before I try to interact, I always reflect intensely on the impact the different words and / or combination of words will have.

Edited August 20, 2005 by andrwg

[Zemanski]

I was told, when Com was diagnosed, that one of the major problems for AS people is that they tend to learn social skills cognitively.

This means they have to think things through and act on the logical conclusions they reach rather than acting on the combination of cognition, intuition, emotion and social reflexes that others have access to. NTs can adapt to new social situations rapidly and their interactions are fluid and instinctive but AS people need more time to analyse the situation both before, to make decisions, and after, to learn from their actions.

Because it is easy for someone learning in this way to miss the nuances of a social interaction they often make mistakes and it can take a huge amount of reflection to work out what the mistake was and how to solve the problem next time.

 

Another aspect of this that I was told early on is that one of the reasons some AS kids get diagnosed very late is that sometimes their cognitive reasoning can keep up with the social demands in the early years without anyone noticing that their interaction is different because social interaction is not too complex until they reach about 6 years old.

The older we are the more complex and subtle our social rules become and so it gets harder and harder to keep up with peers until well into adulthood and even then every new situation has to be carefully analysed so an AS person is likely to be slower and more reflective in social situations than an NT.

 

I don't think this is necessarily all bad - I know it's frustrating and depressing and difficult a lot of the time but at the end of the day someone who reflects well is likely to be actively thinking about others as well as themselves. I think this is why many AS adults are gentle and caring people even if they don't always understand what's going on.

 

Zemanski

[andrwg]

Hello Zemanski,

 

To read what you write is to read about myself! I recognize so fully.

 

I can't adapt to new social situations. I am unable to socialize. To learn socially from previous social situations is impossible for me. Every time I get into a social situation, which is not often as I prefer to withdraw from them, I try to reflect cognitively and logically upon what I have perceived. I am most confused every time. I stand on same bottom level ever; every new social situation appears as totally new to me, like I have to try to learn a new language, eg. greek.

 

I like to reflect and to try to analyze, also social situations.

I like very much to absorb deeply in a phenomenon. In fact, I am extremely happy with life and very proud of Asperger personality.

I wouldn't have changed it at all.

Edited August 20, 2005 by andrwg

[Zemanski]

Hi Andr(eas?), where are you from? - Your syntax is a little unusual, it feels like German or Dutch to me.

 

I'm really glad I was told these things about AS when Com was first diagnosed and we were coming to grips with how to understand and support him.

When he has a problem socially I can usually spot it fairly early and can often advise him on how to proceed, or explain why something has turned out the way it has in a way he can understand. He is 13 now and says he finds my explanations useful although sometimes he feels frustrated that he couldn't work it out for himself.

 

What you say about each situation being new is something I've noticed with Com too. Because he doesn't generalise and apply things he has learned in one situation to another he has to solve each problem afresh - sometimes I will talk about a situation he has been in before to help him link up his thinking more effectively and I use a lot of analogy in my explanations as well.

 

Zemanski

[andrwg]

Hallo Zemanski,

 

I am from Norway.

You have put things clear for me, I am exactly as you describe. I am forty-two now, and daily my mother explains to me the nature of various social situations and gives me answers as to how I can handle them.

 

Where are you from?

 

Andreas

[Zemanski]

Hi Andreas

 

I'm glad I guessed your name right, I speak German so I tend to pick up on the northern European language patterns pretty quickly, your English is very good. I only know a couple of Norwegians, both lovely people both recommended the ferry trip through the fiords as one of the best sight-seeing trips the world has to offer.

 

I live Leeds in the UK but come from Ireland originally. My partner, Little Nemo, is American and the whole family is a bit of a mixture with members dotted around the world.

 

it's good to hear you have good support from your Mum, I hope I'm still around for Com when he is your age if he still needs me. I'm 41 and Com is only 13 so I'm going to be an OAP by then

 

Com has another aspect to his AS that causes social problems - he is face blind and does not recognise people. I found out recently from Tez that this is called prosopagnosia and is a medical condition so I'm going to ask the consultant about it next time Com sees him in Sept. There are some good websites on it if you are interested.

 

We realised very early that Com had difficulty remembering names and faces but school didn't think it was important until he was in his last year of primary school and they discovered that he could only recognise 8 children from the class of just 16 that he had been with since he was 5 years old.

For Com this means that every time he enters a social situation outside his immediate very small network of recognised people he is meeting people as if for the first time. Every time he meets someone, whether he has met them before or not, he has to start the relationship from scratch because he has no memories of that person. Sometimes reminding him of the events that happened last time he met the person help him to make a connection but even that is hit and miss - he can get very confused if he can't place the person in the events but can remember the events.

 

At the moment Com is making a new friend This boy is lovely and shares lots of Com's interests but he is younger so he doesn't go to any of Com's classes, only to an after-school club once a week.

Com is having real problems identifying him outside the club; he doesn't recognise him at all in the playground and actually has to ask his LSA to find him if he wants to speak to him. (When he first wanted to speak to him Com could only remember that he had blonde hair and spent all lunch time dragging his LSA from group to group asking every blonde child in the playground if they were J from science club ) Fortunately I have been able to speak to this boy and explain that Com can't recognise him but really wants to be his friend and he has responded really well but a lot of kids Com has tried to approach find this too wierd to deal with and think he is just being rude.

 

Com is happiest in one to one situations with very close long term friends - he has 5 friends he met in nursery and established strong relationships with because I made sure he had lots of social contact with them. He doesn't go to the same school as them any more so they are beginning to drift apart but they have been very loyal and are extremely good at meeting his needs.

These kids and their parents are the only people outside immediate family that Com would recognise in the street.

I concentrate on helping Com build and maintain these close one to one relationships because I know they are the relationships that he can rely on; I don't bother to help him much with functioning in larger groups because I know that apart from learning a few rules about being polite to people he isn't going to benefit much from being in those groups.

The trouble seems to be that in order to actually meet these potential friends he has to be able to enter group situations and make contact

 

Have you looked at the Tony Attwood website? - I read his book before Com was diagnosed and I still think it explains so many of the issues so much better than most.

 

Zemanski

[andrwg]

Hi Zemanski,

 

I think it is very interesting that you have noticed a north-european langage pattern, as I am interested in languages and expressed formulas. I am glad that you think my english is good.

Yes, there are nice landscapes to see in Norway. The coastal express liner, "Hurtigruten" is also an alternative. I am very fond of going up to the north of Norway with the ships. I am very strongly connected to nature.

 

Regarding prosopagnosia, I will try to read about it on the Internet.

 

Being born with congenital rubella syndrome due to rubella infection which my mother had in her second month of pregnancy, I have an organic brain dysfunction, probably the 'reticulo-frontal dysconnection syndrome'.

I am not fond of groups, and I do slightly better when there is only one person present. The aspect of time also comes to light as to this, when I am almost unable to follow a group converasation; before I have managed to register what I actually experience, perceive, another response is being expressed by the next person.

 

As to Tony Attwood, I have not managed to see his [icons] at the left hand side on his Internet site, the portal, so I may have missed information.

Is his book well worth reading?

 

 

Andreas

[bid]

Hi

 

I intellectualize everything...it must drive Jester mad!

 

I have also recently realised that I verbalise nearly everything as I do it...it's almost as though I need to 'bounce it off' the long-suffering Jester

 

Bid