Aspies in Further Education

[woodri]

I support 16+ year olds with Aspergers in a Greater London FE College. As there are no real experts yet on the Syndrome many of us are guided by the diagnostic 'pattern' observed by Dr Asperger yet have to appreciate we cannot take that too literally.

 

I like the term 'differently abled' which is beginning to emerge as an approach to the AS spectrum in understanding that we have something much vaguer than a disease, disability or condition.

 

I support 8 students aged 17 - 25 and all share the externally observed pattern of AS. What takes time to explore is where the individual's personality and inherent ability is being masked by AS and how to develop them within the narrow criteria of most educational courses.

[Lucas]

I have yet to meet anyone with the AS diagnosis in the face, but I've met lots of those undiagnosed and those with the Autism diagnosis. I have yet to meet anyone whos personality and inherent abilities are 'masked' by Autism though and would say that this applies to those with the AS diagnosis too.

 

I do take Dr Asperger's notes literally and seriously and can't see any valid reason not to. The term 'Autistic Psychopathy' was to explain that there was no invisible line dividing the person from the Autistic. Recent years have led to politically motivated reasons to try and seperate person and Autism to eliminate the ethical dilemma in eradicating a group of people(you could seperate a Jew from their Jewishness, a woman from her gender, etc. Langauge is a powerful tool).

 

I've never actually liked the term 'differently abled' as it simply excuses the above and pushes the social disability model aside.

[Kathryn]

Hi Woodri,

 

Welcome once again to the forum, it's good to have your different perspective.

 

I am the parent of a 16 year old who has just started at her local FE college after a year of being out of education. She is on a course for students with various disabilities and learning difficulties, some of whom have ASD, and although it's early days, she is enjoying it and is well supported. She suffered much trauma and depression at school and is only just staring to put a tentative toe back into the water. I'd be really interested to hear more about how you help support your students in a mainstream FE environment as I'm completely new to this situation and don't know whether the course our college offers is typical of the provision offered by other colleges.

 

If you are saying that AS expresses itself differently in different individuals, I'd agree with you. The idea that someone's personality and ability is "masked" by AS, makes me uneasy, however. My daughter would say that autism (she does not use the term AS for herself) is an inherent part of who she is and how she thinks. What maskes and hinders her ability to "be herself" and reach her potential is not the ASD itself but the anxiety and fear which manifestes itself when she is forced to function in an environment which is not adapted to her needs.

 

K

Edited November 28, 2005 by Kathryn

[ceecee]

Kathryn

 

I too would say as presents itself differently in different people.E.g. the same core difficulties but differences within those core diffculties.I don't know if it presents itself differently because of where the individual is on the spectrum.I have difficulties in all three core difficulties.Emotional, social and communication but it is only slightly.Best wishes to your daughter in her education.

[bid]

I too think it's wrong to say AS 'masks' personality and ability.

 

This implies that somehow there is a 'normal' person struggling to get out

 

This just isn't true.

 

AS is part and parcel of the person: if you took it away they wouldn't be that person. You can't take away someone's gender...AS is as inherent as gender.

 

Bid

[woodri]

If you are saying that AS expresses itself differently in different individuals, I'd agree with you. The idea that someone's personality and ability is "masked" by AS, makes me uneasy, however.

 

I have an adult son with Downs Syndrome whom we managed to get through Primary and Secondary mainstream schools with his two sisters. Yes he is obviously Downs and with the attendant principle characteristics but what remained masked by the Syndrome was him being a natural academic.

 

Being an academic seems a paradox for a mental handicap but he taught others to read at Primary School and is a considerable historian of the Tudors and Stuarts in his level of factual recall and high level of curiosity. These traits he shares with his non disabled younger sister who got a degree in Ancient History. He cannot fully communicate his knowledge or argue at a high level but we know where to point him for research, visits and social groups.

 

The other benefit from mainstream schooling as he grew up was observing what part of his development and behaviour was Downs and what was typical of any kid.

 

One concern I have with my teenage students is that some come along with no idea what Aspergers is. They've been told they've got it and have developed coping mechanisms for being seen as 'out there'. Others are diagnosed late and resent the label. Both sets are very keen to find out about it for themselves. The problem there is to ensure they have an understanding of AS but not to teach them into the stereotype.

[Kathryn]

Hi Woodri, (Love the avatar, by the way )

 

What you say about your son is really interesting - I don't know enough about Downs Syndrome to comment on whether or not there are any parallels between that and AS. My daughter also has good factual recall - it was the main factor which got her through school and enabled her to compensate for other difficulties. In her case I think this ability to remember facts and details is part of her ASD though.

 

What kind of school experiences have your students had, in general before they come to you? My daughter was diagnosed late - only about 18 months ago in fact, when she was 15. Like the students you describe, she is working through the process of understanding who she is and rebuilding her self esteem (which after years of being called "retard" and "spaz" at school was pretty shattered). She has come so far in a short space of time mainly through her own reading about ASD, and at times she has both resented the label, been fiercely proud of it and experienced various states in between!

 

She is insistent that ASD is as much a part of her as being female. Drawing a parallel with computers, she once said memorably: "My autism is not a virus, it's my operating system."

[Lucas]

If we move into Downs I would also argue against using emotively charged terms like how it masks the person underneath. For all I've seen of Downs too, there isn't anything I can think of to justify saying that.

[woodri]

and at times she has both resented the label, been fiercely proud of it and experienced various states in between!

-like a typical teenager!

 

I only brought in the Downs example to try and get across a concept. Outsiders to AS like myself don't have the insights articulate parents and mature AS people have. I'm still learning about AS along with my students and we research from the same sources (Attwood etc), books and Aspies Hangout. I'm adding this forum in now that I've found it and hope they will join it.

 

When assisting disabled students we offer compensations for a variety of conditions to get as near to (or above) the level playing field as possible. Yet some underachievement is not because of the disability but simply that person being immature or foolish like any teenager or having nightmare parents.

 

I am putting in the following link to a video clip as it has had a profound impact in giving confidence to my students because it is by an AS who is mature articulate and authoritative. It also illustrates the concept of being differently abled.

 

http://tethys.croydon.ac.uk/Resources/cnbc...ngbell-2-24.wmv

 

There is also a qualifying interview to highlight as with any group the variety and differing needs in the round.

[ray]

Hi Woodri. My son, Alex, is 17 and in his second year of FE at college. He's part of a group of varying abilities and his course is focussing on lifeskills, preparing for work, some basic english and maths etc. Next year, which will be his last, he's thinking about trying a couple of GCSE's.

 

Whilst Alex was diagnosed as having AS, and he knows this, and I've offered to explain more, explore different coping strategies etc, he's never shown the slightest interest in learning more about it - which I naturally respect. He has a bit of a 'so what' approach, and he just gets on with it, in his own way. I'm not sure if this will change as he matures, and becomes a little more self-aware? But it may also be the fact that he doesn't want to talk about it with his dad.

 

So, I think, giving students the opportunity to learn more at their own pace, and gain their own understanding and insight, in a different and supportive environment, is a great thing to offer.

 

Ray

[bid]

Woodri,

 

You still seem to be thinking that you can separate AS from the individual, and you just can't.

 

My son would no more be himself if you took away his AS than if you took away his maleness!

 

To me, this idea of AS 'masking' anything is dangerously close to the idea that Autism is something that needs to be 'cured'.

 

Bid

[woodri]

Hi Bid

 

Masking means one thing being covered temporarily by another which is not the same as separating. When tutors are presented with the defined AS pattern for guidance they tend to take these as gospel.

 

I am concerned how easy it is to teach to a Syndrome pattern because you want to do right by the student and fail to explore or appreciate aspects of the person which are generally communal.

 

What did you think of the video clip?

[call me jaded]

When I first came on here I got told off for using the phrase 'severe' when applied to my son. The implication was that less severe = mild and 'mild' was an inappropriate term in reference to autism.

 

I think barriers to achievement is possibly a better phrase, woodri. I'm glad to hear your son is doing so well.

[Guest flutter]

my duaghter is 11

she has always been "quirky" for want of a better word, and that is her, and i love her like that, and wouldnt want to separate differning bits of her.

what i have found intersting is how people describe the fact that i light up when she is around or i talk to her on the phone, she is an asd child, but what does that mean?? she needs support yes, but as a individual lol

ramble over

C x

[Tez]

Hi Woodri,

 

I have have read your posts and I must say that I share the same concerns as other posters. It seems to me that the education system seems to view our children as some sort of experiment. It is almost as if they are specimens in a pot being observed and this really upsets me. Why can't we just treat everyone as individuals and base our interactions with them on our experiences in just the same way that you would an NT person. I do believe that a knowledge of AS is useful in understanding behaviours and in formulating the right educational approaches but this very knowledge would tell a teacher that there is no such thing as teaching to a Syndrone pattern, despite what the government would like us to think.

 

There might have been alot wrong with education years ago but one of its great strengths before the National Curriculum was that it wasn't prescribed. Good teachers could adjust their approach to suit the child, this was based on knowing that child, not just some academic learning or theory, they adapted their methods, and tried different approaches until they got it right, often using that child's interests to assist them....but that today is unthinkable, after all you would need to get to know that child as a person, so instead we employ EPs to tell us what good teachers should already have observed for themselves.

Edited November 30, 2005 by Tez

[woodri]

Hi Kathryn

You seem to be the only one reading these postings for meaning.

 

What kind of school experiences have your students had, in general before they come to you?

 

We get three groups:

1. From Special Schools. I believe most have been misplaced in these either because parents are afraid of the hassle in mainstream school or have been persuaded their kids are more special needs than necessary.

2. From mainstream schools where they have been statemented to have in-class support.

3. Have been declared ineducable and not put anywhere.

 

You need to appreciate that in FE we cannot support a student who does not declare a disability and many Aspergers won't when they have left school.

 

In terms of results and very generally we can observe the following:

1. Special School leaver have huge problems in a class of ex mainstream students with the noise, speed and banter. We have 2 to 4 hour lessons but a much more informal discipline. To date one or two have gained qualications where the tutors have insisted they declare for learning support.

 

2. Mainstream Schools. Cope well with the environment but no longer want someone in class sitting with them as that is seen as babyish. They still need someone to help with organisation and engagement with the lesson so we do a mix of in class and out of class support.

 

3. The AS lad who noone but us wanted to educate went up to Cambridge University last year to read Mathematics and Philosophy.

 

We are not experts but as with any disablility it is much more an Art than a Science.

 

Make sure you have a look at the video clip of an AS Professor being interviewed posted earlier.

[bid]

Sorry, but I can't believe you have said this...

 

'From special schools. I believe most have been misplaced in these either because parents are afraid of the hassle in mainstream school or have been persuaded their kids are more special needs than necessary'.

 

This statement is patronising and offensive.

 

I suggest that you read Clarkie's posts in the Education section for a good insight into what we parents actually have to go through to get our children into appropriate specialist placements.

 

Bid

Edited December 1, 2005 by bid

[madme]

Bid I agree. Son tonight had further assessment and told by a v specialist teacher who is completely independent that mainstream at present is inappropriate but also local state special school also inappropriate and needs proper specialist help. Sorry but inclusion may be politically correct but it doesnt always work. My child has an iq of 130 and should be able to access mainstream but cant because of his complex comobidities. He is no genius in hiding. He just needs proper and specialist help. he is in fact in a specialist school at present but it would seem he needs more help than is avail;able even there. In reality he couldnt cope in a large setting whatever the help. Each child is individual.

[Malika]

Hi

 

I believe most have been misplaced in these either because parents are afraid of the hassle in mainstream school or have been persuaded their kids are more special needs than necessary'.

 

WAHOOO that's is I am sorry to says an admission of ignorance respective to what is really going on on the ground if you are really sincere in getting to help and understand your students you better think this in a different direction.

 

Parents do not get the Hassle of mainstream schools students do!!!!!!! and that's why you have to establish special programes to help them out of their depression due to low self esteem.

Parents knows their kids better and nobody beleive them until every things falls appart, real an acceptable strategies can help in mainstream but the constant lack of knowledge and understanding of the condition from staff and the constant "I either ignore you or make fun of you from others kids" is never addressed properly this is why you find people with AS scared to death to go to any form of group type teaching, they just cannot take it anymore.

 

Because they are bright they probably just isolate themself at a certain point as they will feel more confortable and they know they won't be accepted anyway, teaching tolerance in mainstream school and to other kids parents should be a priority to start with the staff at every level of cares including dinners ladies.

 

Denying that ASD AS children have complexe special needs is not going to take the education system anywhere. once they reach maturity things should then get better but always with support and understanding not by ignoring their difficulties.

 

Malika.

[Guest flutter]

i read what you said

it took me days to digest

i dont really think you understand where us and ours come from

sorry

[Guest hallyscomet]

Hi Woodri,

 

I tried to watch the videoclip, but it came up all distorted, the speech kept stopping and starting. Perhaps my son maybe able to fix it though.

 

I have read your posts my 18 year old is an ex mainstream and was totally unable to cope in that environment. Since went onto College in I.T for a year a course he is passionate about and obsesses over, and was unable to commit, couldn't handle the environment. He was recommended the types of courses you are talking about and what Kathryns daughter is doing but his anxiety is preventing him from going along to one the Disabilities support unit tried to convince him of doing this, but his answer was flat no, and I know why, he is afraid of groups, working in groups, yet he has been in mainstream all his life, he won't even participate in a special needs group to assist kids like him to learn to catch a bus, he is paranoid of public transport, and hates shopping malls, only a little better since his doctor put him on anxiety tablets. The only thing disabilities support unit could offer him to keep him happy, was home schooling with the help of a tutor, but he told the DSA he didnt want a tutor

 

He was diagnosed with Autism at age 4 onset was age 2 severe ADHD and age 5 1/2 then at 12 they said Aspergers and at 15 Autism, Depression, Severe ADHD Anxiety & Learning difficulties.

 

The homeschooling courses are basic umbrella courses for special needs in I.T I fear he is going to be totally bored with this. Even though he was unable to remain in class without calling me after half an hour he said the Cert 111 I.T class was too slow for him and boring and an insult to his intelligence, my mind is like gello at the moment trying to figure out what is best for him so is DSA he has only just enrolled so we are waiting for the first module to arrive in the post. Fingers crossed this will work out, as nothing else seems to be working, We are considering a complete reassessment of everything with his Doctor on the 6th December, boy am I counting the days

 

I am interested very interested in anything you have to suggest as at present I am getting any information I can to put to his doctor and DSA, Virtually I have taken a huge step back and reassuring him with lots of love and praise and letting him feel like he is making all the decisions.

 

One still confused

Hailey

Mind you I still have a sense of humour as I believe somehow something will workout right for him one day, whenever that is.

Edited December 1, 2005 by hallyscomet

[woodri]

Hi Hailey

 

If you can, save the video clip to your computer and run it through Windows Media Player.

 

So far have developed the following strategies for a variety of Aspie students. They are in their late teens and early 20's so teenager rules apply as well as the effects of AS.

 

1. Escape codes. These are agreed between tutor and Aspie to allow them to leave the class as 'invisibly' as possible to chill out or clear intrusive thoughts/anxieties. Most common calls are for a drink of water or to go to the loo.

 

2. Chill Room. We have set up a special 'limbo' room with grey walls and grey booths where aspies and other sensitive students can drop in or 'escape' and use computers or work 1:1 with me.

 

3. I have set up a college intranet website where Aspie students across the college can create pages for each other, find information, chat and share interests. The website links to other Aspie websites including this one and they are encouraged to register and contribute.

 

4. Where Aspies are in a class with computers I can often deal with problems remotely by exchanging emails instead of being in class with them and being able to contact outside college.

 

5. One student could not manage the vagueness of coursework and was withdrawn. However I persuaded him to try a Learndirect course and he loved it.

 

Most of the Aspies have taken to email and we are developing email for personal organisation of self. You can store reminders and schedules etc as well as keeping information for reading and re-reading. This is happening globally anyway.

 

Finally it may be worth looking at an e-learning or distance learning solution where he can learn and communicate whenever, whatever and however he himself wants.

 

Hope some or any of this is of any use.

[bid]

I like the term 'Aspie'...it was coined by people with AS, and my son happily uses the name. If ever that referral happens for me, I'm determined to be a 'Lipstick Aspie'

 

BUT...

 

Am I alone in finding the way you have used the term in your post above really rather demeaning??

 

Bid

[Kathryn]

Bid - Resident Lipstick Aspie - you must ask Nemo to design you a suitable avatar.

 

As far as the term Aspie goes - we don't use it in our house. My daughter does not categorise herself as having AS (her original dx)and prefers to define herself as high functioning autistic. Which goes to illustrate that our children are all individuals.

 

Woodri - it's encouraging to read of all the support you have in place for your students and you obviously understand your students' needs well. I'm interested to know if and how you work on social skills with your students: this is something my daughter needs and I'm not sure who should be providing this and how.

 

You come down very hard on parents in your posts- and I'm not sure why: obviously I don't know your experiences. I only know about ASD but I'm not aware of any parent being persuaded that their child is more special needs than necessary- if you browse through the posts here you'll see that the opposite is usually the case - parents are continually fighting the dogma of inclusion at any price, at great emotional and financial cost to themeselves, whilst their child falls to pieces from the social and sensory demands mainstream school makes upon them.

 

Those who manage to secure special ASD provision for their child are the lucky ones, and because of the way our wonderful educational system works, these children have to have a long history of misery, failure and trauma at school before they can even be considered. Parents have to fight so hard - we become "nightmare parents" because we are dealing with a nightmare system.

 

.

[Guest hallyscomet]

Hi Kathryn,

I'll second that about what you said about the education system destroying our childs self esteem.

 

Hailey

[ray]

sorry Woodri, but I agree with all that others are saying about your view of parents and why a special school is often selected.

 

This forum has crystallised my thoughts that parents of ASD kids are a pretty special bunch of self resilient, resourceful, caring people, who will do anything for their kids to help them find their way in this world. I hasten to add I dont count myself amongst this category being a mess of a human being, and naturally, as within any segment of the population you get the good and the bad (and I'm fairly ugly as well), but on the whole I've been blown away by the inherent goodness of the people I've so far come across here. Its often quite a humbling thing and often puts your own worries/concerns/issues into a proper perspective.

 

Anyaway, the generalisation you make about why parents choose special schools is particularly dangerous. I guess you often need to work with parents to help the students, and such a potentially jaundiced view can't possibly help? One of the many decisions I have agonised over is whether sending Alex to a special school was the right thing, but on balance, because of the damage that was being done to his confidence and self esteem in a mainstream school where he had full time classroom support, I believe it was right. Academically. he may not be as far forward, but he can go on learning for the rest of his life he wants to - but he is, most of the time, relatively confident and happy, and outgoing, and sociable, with some very healthy teenage issues, and rebellion, and moods, and intelligible grunting...etc. Marvelous.

 

He does have particular problems and issues as a result of his AS, but I dont believe they are any more or less, because of the special school placement.

 

Ray

[woodri]

Hi Ray, Kathryn and Hailey

 

I think parents on this forum are brilliant and I'm learning a lot which is why I joined it. I have been fighting my corner for my DS son for 27 years now so I've become somewhat battle hardened and often battle weary like yourselves.

 

My views are based on local conditions, experiences and working with the few AS teenage students I am supporting at present so my comments are not global. They are just put into the pot for what they are worth.

 

As a long time parent I have belonged to a variety of local disability self help groups for a range of disablities including AS members. Our local authority has generally preferred to promote special schools and more vulnerable and less able parents than yourselves have sometimes been persuaded to place their kids in them for LEA convenience. I'm afraid also human nature being what it is some parents seem content to hand it all over to someone else.

 

Secondary mainstream is often regarded as the most complex and challenging time kids have in their lives. After that they can shed what they don't like, streamline their focus and go where they want. Mainstream is a hell of a risk for anyone and the argument versus special school has always been intense.

 

We fought for our son to go to mainstream because the special schools seemed to reinforce handicap, operate at lower language levels, and have too many adults to too few kids. He came out of mainstream without knowing any more than a special school kid but the benefits are more in his sociability, ease with adults and teenagers, language development, body language, alertness and adaptability to change. That is the calculated risk we took and we seem to have got away with it - just. But like yourselves if the risk had become too great (in our opinion not theirs) we would have withdrawn him - but reluctantly.

 

I am not 'blaming' any caring parent for not putting kids in mainstream or judging anyone a failure for putting them in special provisions. Its all very high risk and whatever happens the bottom line is it is all dumped on us parents when things don't work out - even now when he is 27 years old.

[Kerre]

Woodri Woodri! It's the evil penguin!!11!

[Kathryn]

Secondary mainstream is often regarded as the most complex and challenging time kids have in their lives. After that they can shed what they don't like, streamline their focus and go where they want. Mainstream is a hell of a risk for anyone and the argument versus special school has always been intense.

I used to tell my daughter this when she was getting more and more anxious - just get to the end of GCSE's then you can go where you choose. Sadly the pressure became too much before she reached this stage and she crashed out at the beginning of year 11.

 

I have only visited one ASD specialist school and it was wonderful: it was clear to me that all children there are encouraged to develop their intellectual potential and interests to the fullest extent in an environment where their difficulties are understood and provided for. Sadly there are too few of these places.

 

I agree with you that parents are always the fall back position when anything goes wrong.