Horizon (documentary)

[Zemanski]

Donna Williams was non-verbal till at least 9 and still has communication problems in some environments which make speaking difficult for her, Wendy Lawson was institutionalisted for many years on high doses of antipsychotics and last time I heard her speak she was still trying to get off them, Temple grandin was non-verbal for a large part of her early childhood, Roz Blackburn is still very much autistic in her presentation and needs considerable support for day to day living - these people were all considered 'low-functioning'

 

children grow and develop and become adults. Some continue to have severe difficulties in all sorts of aspects of their lives but others do find coping strategies and achieve success in spite of their difficulties and the way society treats them.

Only a few years ago it was thought that 'low functioning' autistic children couldn't grow up into successful adults, these 'celebrities' show us all how much autistic people can and do achieve - they are incredibly important to the cause of building awareness and understanding of our children's needs, problems and potential

 

Zemanski

[Guest flutter]

lorry have they done all of these things cos they have the support of partners ect

how many here believe they are undiagnosed, but have all that ?

[baddad]

I just cant bring myself to buy into the whole celebrity autistic thing. It is such a huge leap from autism as I know it. I couldnt bring myself to attend a local support group meeting with Donna Williams. The fact that she is married, drives and has an agent just blows me away.

The young people I know who are described as autistic have huge problems with communication, most are non verbal and will need constant 24 hour care for the rest of their lives.

 

 

Hi lorry -

not quite sure what you mean about 'buying in', and the comments that you made about Donna Williams lifestyle.

Autism manifests in so many different ways, it's impossible to 'describe' in simple terms in a manner that applies to every individual. That doesn't mean that somebody with one set of abilities should be frowned upon for discussing their perspectives - just so long as they don't try to generalise those experiences to describe ALL experiences of autism. People like DW, Temple Grandin, etc help the world to see beyond the stereotypes, and see people with ASD's as individuals rather than case histories. Those young people you describe are individuals too, regardless of any specific care/support needs they may require.

 

L&P

 

BD

[aro]

Thought it was a great documentary too, very revealing in a troubling way for someone knew to their child having ASD, it was upsetting for me to see the black and white footage of a little girl in an institution, looking every bit like my little flappy bat still bringing tears to my eyes!

As for TG, good for her! very inspirational!

Anna x

Edited June 9, 2006 by aro

[lorryw]

Im sorry its only my opinion and I did delete at least 4 times before I took a deep breath and posted!

I just find it upsetting, cant help how I feel. I really dont want to get into a debate.

Lorainexx

[Kathryn]

Loraine,

 

You're entitled to your opinion and thanks for posting it. I do see what you're saying.

 

I think DW, TG and other well known individuals who have told their stories are all amazing people but I too find the whole "celebrity autistic thing" irritating. Not the fault of the individuals, who as BD says are only expressing their own perspectives of autism, but I think the media still pander to the stereotypes here. The autistic people the public can most easily relate to, are the ones whose stories tend to get aired, in film and print, especially if they have that element of "overcoming adversity". Running through all these stories to some extent is the subtext= look how "normal" she is, just like us really despite this autism thing - or look at the amazing skills he has, which the rest of us don't, because of his autism.

 

It would be great if people were exposed to a more rounded view of autism. Unfortunately, the other side is rarely seen - the kind of young people you describe Loraine, will rarely have their stories honestly told and will never be able to speak from a public platform about their own individual experience of autism.

 

K x

[Lucas]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'the other side', but I see where you're coming from in regards to 'how normal he/she is *despite* Autism'. Different and normal are not polar opposites.

 

I do not believe the media or Autism organisations should pick and choose which Autistics to show in representing Autistic people.

 

Just to also add that when 'Make Me Normal' was aired last year, I was very disappointed that they decided to choose the 'most high-functioning' pupils to appear and I was appalled at the excuses given by the headmistress.

Edited June 10, 2006 by Lucas

[lorryw]

Thank you so much Kathryn. You have managed to put my feelings into words.

I suppose it depends on your own personal experiences and expectations. If you are the parent of a more able child it must be a comfort to see the achievements of these individuals.

However I do feel for those children and adults who dont seem to have a voice. We have at least 3 schools within 10 miles who care for profoundly autistic children. Children who attend school 24 hours,52 weeks a year because their difficulties make living at home impossible. A close friend worked at one for several years and the staff were issued with protective clothing and gauntlets to lessen injuries. Children who cannot speak, read, write or communicate, self harm, fit etc. I find it so very sad and to make any comparisons with DW and TG etc is inappropriate.

Lorainex

[baddad]

Hi Kathryn/Lorraine -

 

That whole issue of how autistic people (and all sorts of other people with disabilities too) are portrayed is a HUGE can of worms, and one that very definitely needs to be challenged. It's only very recently that even major lobby groups and charities have started to see the damaging implications of this, and made attempts to avoid the 'heroic' or 'tragic' or 'needy' kind of imagary that epitomised their fundraising and campaigning for years... It will take a massive shift in emphasis before the mainstream (esp. tabloid) media respond appropriately because THEIR target audience is generally even less well informed, and the most reluctant to view material that challenges their preconceptions.

The overriding focus on 'high functioning' (in terms of the NT viewing audience) autistic people by the popular media IS not entirely helpful, but it does open the door for more in depth reporting, and it does draw attention toward people who - though often heavily editorialised - DO speak about the wider implications of their condition, and DON'T try to differentiate themselves from others with more profound support needs than themselves - which has sadly been the way things have usually gone in other areas of 'disability rights' when viewed in an historical context.

 

Challenging public prejudices and changing things in real terms is a slow process, and its usually the 'accessible' face of any minority that effects that change. I'm sure there will be others who disagree, but from my perspective people like Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandella achieved far more in terms of 'enabling' the minorities they represented than those who took a more radical approach.

 

A documentary showing 'severely' (again, using that term loosely) autistic people living 24/7 in supported environments might be more represenatative of the wider autistic population, but its impact outside of the autistic and care communities would be minimal, because there wouldn't be much of an audience for it. even worse, I suspect that the kind of audience this MIGHT attract would be the worst kind, who were looking to reinforce their existing prejudices rather than challenge them...

 

Lorraine, I apologise if my earlier post seemed to challenge you - that certainly wasn't my intent. We are both looking at the same thing, but from slightly different angles, and swapping those perspectives gives both of us a chance to see the bigger picture. <'>

 

L&P

 

BD

[bid]

Hi Lorraine,

 

I work in a residential school with young adults, some of whom are profoundly autistic with the kinds of difficulties you describe.

 

I can say that we have never been issued with 'protective clothing and gauntlets'. Sorry, I don't mean to offend, but I find that ridiculous. Which is not to say that we don't sometimes experience extremely challenging behaviour, but it is not approached from that perspective.

 

My son is what you would term 'more able', but he has also suffered from episodes of severe self-harm and when he was younger, fitting episodes.

 

I worry this discussion is turning into that whole thing about which children/adults have the 'most severe' problems

 

And I just don't think it is like that: problems can be different but equally severe...how do you decide which is 'more severe', for example, being non-verbal, or attempting/committing suicide??

 

Bid

Edited June 10, 2006 by bid

[lorryw]

Baddad,

Thank you for respecting my opinions and sharing your thoughts.

Bid

Im sorry if you find the gauntlet scenario ridiculous but that is the reality in this particular school.

I have no intention of debating the whole, who has the worst problems issue. Everyones experiences and issues are different and I respect those differences.

Loraine

[bid]

Loraine,

 

That was my point...it's impossible to say who has the 'worst problems'.

 

Problems can be very different but equally severe.

 

Bid

Edited June 10, 2006 by bid