Daughter 15 depressed and ran away we suspected AS

[tabz2711]

Hi everyone, I posted here in Jan about my then 14 yr old daughter who seemed to have many traits of AS. Since then we seemed to have gone downhill all the way. My daughter changed schools in Sept 05 to attend an all girls grammer school as she was not achieving at a comprehensive and had many problems with friends there. My other two daughters who were also starting at the same school, one in yr7 and the other in sixth form. They both have coped well with leaving friends and making new ones, but the middle daughter struggled from day one and now is saying she is not going to school again. We are in the process of appealing to send her back to her old school but I know after a year out, her so called friends that she left, will make her life miserable if she goes back. She too has realised this and knows that she can't stay at her new school and can't go back to her old school and certainly doesn't want to start anywhere else.

 

We have now realised that she has always had problems with changes in her life, i.e if I changed her bed round she would move it back.and wanting to wear the same yellow teeshirt. She has very few social skills and those she has have been learnt from tv programmes. People especially teachers at her new school think she is rude and blunt whereas my other two girls are sociable and pleasant.

 

When we have family discussions if we are lucky to have S with us she will talk about the simpsons as they are real i.e Marge Simpson thought that too. This seems to be strange coming for a girl who is extremely bright. Last Monday S left the house at 10pm and would not come home we eventually managed to talk her to tell us where she was at 11.45pm and when we found her she was very distressed saying her life was not worth living and she hated all of it. There was no reason for her to leave home and we found out she had wallked over a dark field on her own she didn't seem to understand the danger at all, in fact told me that the boy in "catcher in a rye" came to no harm when he ran away.

 

As S had been having trouble at school and getting very depressed I went to see the doctor a few weeks ago with a big list of S behavioural traits. She said she would refer S for an assessment. After the eposiode on Monday, I spoke to the local Autism group and they recommended that I spoke to the doctor again and get her refered to CAHMS. I was phoned today and asked questions and S has now gone on the urgent referral list and I was advised to keep her off school for a while as she has a frail state of mind and any anxiety about attending school might trigger her running away or something more serious. The autism group have been wonderful and phoned me many times over the past few weeks from what I have told them of S they seem to think that she might have AS. We have also completed online AS tests and we have all scored very low marks as S has scored a lot higher. Are these tests ok to give a slight idea if one might be AS.

 

When S refused to go to school this morning I found her behind the bathroom door curled up and when she saw me she said was I going to hit smack her for refusing to go to school I have never smacked her even as a small child and it really upset me that she thought that I was capable of doing so.

 

I just want to know whether I am barking up the wrong tree with trying to get an assessment for AS so that we as a family have an understanding of her difficulties and maybe so we can get her help if she needs it.

 

What will happen in the first appointment with CAHMS? the lady I spoke to said that they would first try and sort out her depression and then see what is causing it.

 

Everyone in the family has always said that S is "one of a kind" in a nice way as she is so different, they all love her and find her funny and she has the most infectious laugh especially when she finds something funny and we don't it is very contagious.( sorry for my spelling I am dyslexic)

I am very worried about her and want to do the best for her, my family all say why do I want her labelled? I would hope that with it we would be able to help her more.

 

I have been told that it is much harder to diagnose girls as they have more ideas about social skills and behaviour and can learn to copy/ mimic their friends, if this is so how will we be able to get the right assessement for her?

 

If anyone could give me any advice or has been in a similar situation I would love to hear from you I am at a low ebb wondering what to do with her

many thanks for reading my long winded post.

Edited June 29, 2006 by tabz2711

[phasmid]

I don't think your barking up the wrong tree at all. I think many of us have been faced by our children going through the 'life isn't worth living' stage/routine/phase (call it what you will), so we know what your going through. Much of the behaviour you describe could well be ASD related - it may turn out to have another cause but thats for the experts to decide. You are getting good advice on this already by the looks of it (support too). I would go with the suggestion of keeping her off school but would strongly suggest you get your gp to sign her off as this will keep the school/LEA off your back (stress would cover it) and then press for that CAMHS appointment for all your worth. In the meantime we are here whenever you need us.

[tabz2711]

I don't think your barking up the wrong tree at all. I think many of us have been faced by our children going through the 'life isn't worth living' stage/routine/phase (call it what you will), so we know what your going through. Much of the behaviour you describe could well be ASD related - it may turn out to have another cause but thats for the experts to decide. You are getting good advice on this already by the looks of it (support too). I would go with the suggestion of keeping her off school but would strongly suggest you get your gp to sign her off as this will keep the school/LEA off your back (stress would cover it) and then press for that CAMHS appointment for all your worth. In the meantime we are here whenever you need us.

 

Thank you for your advice, I will certainly get the Dr to sign her off as I am worried that I could get into trouble with the school without it.

[Elouise]

One things is very clear, whatever the reasons causing it, your daughter is mentally distressed.

 

You are not refussing to send her to school, she has choosen to refuse to attend school. (Nathan pulled the same trick at 12)

 

CAHMS are the best people to help having been there done that if she ever becomes EXTREMELY distressed please remember that you can go to casulty, if your able to get to a childrens hospital with an A&E your more likely to get a peadiatric psychiatrist on call. The depression is potentially more dangerous than ASD which is why they want to tackle that for her first.

 

Also have a look at the website for Youngminds.

 

Sadly ASD can bring extremes of mental distress in some kids and you do need to take it seriously and be prepared to shove your foot into doors to get them help.

[tabz2711]

One things is very clear, whatever the reasons causing it, your daughter is mentally distressed.

 

You are not refussing to send her to school, she has choosen to refuse to attend school. (Nathan pulled the same trick at 12)

 

CAHMS are the best people to help having been there done that if she ever becomes EXTREMELY distressed please remember that you can go to casulty, if your able to get to a childrens hospital with an A&E your more likely to get a peadiatric psychiatrist on call. The depression is potentially more dangerous than ASD which is why they want to tackle that for her first.

 

Also have a look at the website for Youngminds.

 

Sadly ASD can bring extremes of mental distress in some kids and you do need to take it seriously and be prepared to shove your foot into doors to get them help.

 

Thank you for your sound advice, I will remember to go to A&E if she gets extremely depressed

many thanks

[Kathryn]

Hi tabz,

 

This is a really tough situation for your daughter and for you but from what you've said, it seems to me you're doing all the right things at the moment.

 

As she's really stressed I think you're absolutely right not to force her to go to school at the moment - Phasmid's advice is good, get her signed off by the GP as soon as you can. This will give you a breathing space and prevent the LEA from refusing all further responsibility for your daughter on the grounds that you've chosen to opt out of the education system. If she is off on medical grounds, your daughter would also be entitled to home tuition if she is able to manage it.

 

It's good that her distress is being taken seriously - hopefully the CAMHS appointment will be soon. What happens will depend on what is available in your area - it could be that she is offered some kind of talking therapy. Anti depressant medication may be discussed - obviously you'll want to think about this carefully as there are both positives and negatives. It's to be hoped that anyone who sees your daughter has some awareness of ASD as a possible factor - your local autism group should be able to tell you more about the expertise in your local Camhs service - they do vary.

 

I think you're right to go for an assessment for AS - there are many questions that need answering and if she is on the spectrum, it's the vital first stage in getting the right kind of educational support. As to whether it's more difficult to diagnose girls - you may have a point about AS being masked by the mimicking of social behaviour. I doubt whether my own daughter would have got a dx at the age of 7, but at the age of 15 the professional who saw her diagnosed her within 10 minutes of meeting her! I'm sure an experienced professional will know what to look for.

 

As for labels, there's no escaping them anyway, so you may as well go for the one that best fits!. My daughter was given several while she was at school - "weirdo", "freak", "retard", "spaz" to name the more printable ones. The label she has now (she describes herself as autistic, and is proud of who she is) is far preferable to any of those, in my opinion.

 

Tabz, you know from my previous posts and PM 's that I've been in a similar situation to you. As have many others around here. Keep talking - we're all listening. <'>

 

K x

[Zemanski]

CAMHS assess for ASCs but they deal with all sorts of things and are generally getting a lot better at differentiating different problems. They are usually very supportive and whether or not your daughter has AS they should be able to help you understand what is going on for her - and if she does have AS they are the best people to see.

 

one little point, there are 2 conditions; school refusal and school phobia and they seem much the same but there is a subtle difference in approach to them. School refusal is considered behavioural and is often considered deliberate and viewed quite negatively. School phobia is considered to be more of an anxiety issue and treated generally with more sympathy. This is particularly true in educational circles so be careful how you phrase it when you talk about your daughter's problems.

Com is frightened of school, too stressed by the environment to cope - I consider him school phobic, not a school refuser.

 

Good luck with it all, and remember it takes a long time to go through most of these processes, even with emergency referrals, so try to take it one step at a time

 

Zemanski

[tabz2711]

CAMHS assess for ASCs but they deal with all sorts of things and are generally getting a lot better at differentiating different problems. They are usually very supportive and whether or not your daughter has AS they should be able to help you understand what is going on for her - and if she does have AS they are the best people to see.

 

one little point, there are 2 conditions; school refusal and school phobia and they seem much the same but there is a subtle difference in approach to them. School refusal is considered behavioural and is often considered deliberate and viewed quite negatively. School phobia is considered to be more of an anxiety issue and treated generally with more sympathy. This is particularly true in educational circles so be careful how you phrase it when you talk about your daughter's problems.

Com is frightened of school, too stressed by the environment to cope - I consider him school phobic, not a school refuser.

 

Good luck with it all, and remember it takes a long time to go through most of these processes, even with emergency referrals, so try to take it one step at a time

 

Zemanski

 

Thank you so much for spelling out the difference to me, S is definetely has school phobia, she feels ill and gets so anxious about going to school, already last night I noticed a difference in her once I said that we have decided that she can have the week off school(well I decided, Hubby does not understand but luckily will let me decided and trusts me, he is a teacher. We have always sent the children to school unless they were really poorly and they knew that if they were off they were in bed all day) my views have slightly changed since then lol.

 

My husband is having difficulties in understanding S problems because he can't see them i.e a broken foot/arm but little by little he is coming round and realising there might be some problem with S.

Edited June 20, 2006 by tabz2711

[barefoot wend]

tabs2711

 

Removing a child from school can seem to go so 'against the grain' - we certainly found it so. I think my husband found it most difficult as to me, as I think with you, it reaches a point where you know your child can't go on and the decision is really made for you.

 

Your daughter is going through a traumatic time - you're doing the right things. Hopefully, the alleviation of stress that can be caused by having to attend school will help her to slowly begin to move forward.

 

I hope you get the answers and help you're looking for at CAMHS.

 

Keep posting.

[tabz2711]

Hi tabz,

 

This is a really tough situation for your daughter and for you but from what you've said, it seems to me you're doing all the right things at the moment.

 

As she's really stressed I think you're absolutely right not to force her to go to school at the moment - Phasmid's advice is good, get her signed off by the GP as soon as you can. This will give you a breathing space and prevent the LEA from refusing all further responsibility for your daughter on the grounds that you've chosen to opt out of the education system. If she is off on medical grounds, your daughter would also be entitled to home tuition if she is able to manage it.

 

It's good that her distress is being taken seriously - hopefully the CAMHS appointment will be soon. What happens will depend on what is available in your area - it could be that she is offered some kind of talking therapy. Anti depressant medication may be discussed - obviously you'll want to think about this carefully as there are both positives and negatives. It's to be hoped that anyone who sees your daughter has some awareness of ASD as a possible factor - your local autism group should be able to tell you more about the expertise in your local Camhs service - they do vary.

 

I think you're right to go for an assessment for AS - there are many questions that need answering and if she is on the spectrum, it's the vital first stage in getting the right kind of educational support. As to whether it's more difficult to diagnose girls - you may have a point about AS being masked by the mimicking of social behaviour. I doubt whether my own daughter would have got a dx at the age of 7, but at the age of 15 the professional who saw her diagnosed her within 10 minutes of meeting her! I'm sure an experienced professional will know what to look for.

 

As for labels, there's no escaping them anyway, so you may as well go for the one that best fits!. My daughter was given several while she was at school - "weirdo", "freak", "retard", "spaz" to name the more printable ones. The label she has now (she describes herself as autistic, and is proud of who she is) is far preferable to any of those, in my opinion.

 

Tabz, you know from my previous posts and PM 's that I've been in a similar situation to you. As have many others around here. Keep talking - we're all listening. <'>

 

K x

Thanks for taking the time to reply on the forum and by pm I really appreciate it. The new school can't understand why my other two girls have fitted in at the school and S is like she is. They said that S can be rude at times and not answer questions when asked if she is ok by a teacher.

 

S has made a few friends at Xxxxxx since we have put an appeal in to go back to XX XXXXX, it's as if she has relaxed because she knew there was a chance she would be leaving. S doesn't want to go back to XX XXXXX now because she knows the girls she left will be horrible to her. In fact what S really wants is the new school friends to move to XX XXXXX with her so the familarity of her old school and teachers with her XXXXXX friends who are more mature and accept her more readily, even through it has taken nearly a full school year to have a group of friends.

 

The school arranged for her to see a "counsellor" which I was very pleased about being a counsellor myself. When we had a meeting things were mentioned that S had said to the counsellor and only told me about, I questioned that the counsellor had broken confidentiality and was shot down, so S has no confidence with seeing another counsellor now.

 

Tthe problem with S is that she doesn't trust anyone, if anyone asks her to keep a secret she will but when she tells her "friends" to do the same they tell everyone and S can't understand why they have told others about her secret. She also gets upset when others are being bitchy about members in the "group" when they are not around, so Shan thinks that they talk about her when she is not around and this really upsets her as she wouldn't do it to anyone. If she doesn't like someone she just doesn't talk to them full stop.

 

I totally agree that it is better to have a label that fits than one that doesn't. If S doesn't have AS then we will be looking for other reasons for her behavioural traits and her depresssion and anxiety

Edited June 20, 2006 by phasmid

[Karen A]

Hi we have just completed CAMHS assessment for Ben [8years].He also became very anxious about school and we just managed to not need to withdraw him.He has some aspergers traits but also has emotional difficulties-we have been able to get child therapy for the emotional bit plus SALT,social skills training etc for the ASD bit.CAHMS will have experiencs of ASD and if they need a more specialist opinion theywill know who to reffer to.We found we needed several appointments to sort out what was going on with Ben.Consultant and registrar met with whole family[they invited us to bring anyone significant],further appointments in various combinations with Ben.D[husband],myself.They take detailed medical history,talk about development,then ask lots of questions which refer to specific problems[depression,anxiety,ADHD,ASD].At some point they talk with child seperately.It is worth thinking about anything that appeared unusual both during childhood and more recently and making a note of it to take to the appointment.Also make a note of any relatives who have ASD type behaviours.coordiation or speach problems or mental health problems.I found the first appointment with CAMHS a bit nerve wracking.But remember it is not a test they are there to help.I hope that helps answer'' what will happen at the first appointment with CAHMS ?''if you need more info post another message Karen A

[Suze]

hi hun.........I grew up in stockie .........I now live the other side of macclesfield, if you need a parent support group pm me and I can give you the details.

Back to your daughter, you are definitely dong the right thing as regards school, I would,nt send her back at all till you,ve seen camhs.School for kids with ASD can be the worst , and most difficult times of their lives.Some manage to cope , others are home educated, or manage to find a specialist placement.My son was referrred to camhs at 7yrs by his school who were very worried abot his mental state, he too was depressed, subsequently he was dx with ASD.A therapist did mention that he may need to be home taught as he was in such a bad state, fortunately he was statemented and this helped,if he became depressed again I would,nt think twice about keeping him off or withdrawing him from school, take care hope that appointment comes soon <'> .Is it for macclesfield or stepping hill?.........love suzex

[tabz2711]

Hi we have just completed CAMHS assessment for Ben [8years].He also became very anxious about school and we just managed to not need to withdraw him.He has some aspergers traits but also has emotional difficulties-we have been able to get child therapy for the emotional bit plus SALT,social skills training etc for the ASD bit.CAHMS will have experiencs of ASD and if they need a more specialist opinion theywill know who to reffer to.We found we needed several appointments to sort out what was going on with Ben.Consultant and registrar met with whole family[they invited us to bring anyone significant],further appointments in various combinations with Ben.D[husband],myself.They take detailed medical history,talk about development,then ask lots of questions which refer to specific problems[depression,anxiety,ADHD,ASD].At some point they talk with child seperately.It is worth thinking about anything that appeared unusual both during childhood and more recently and making a note of it to take to the appointment.Also make a note of any relatives who have ASD type behaviours.coordiation or speach problems or mental health problems.I found the first appointment with CAMHS a bit nerve wracking.But remember it is not a test they are there to help.I hope that helps answer'' what will happen at the first appointment with CAHMS ?''if you need more info post another message Karen A

 

Hi Karen, thanks for giving me some insight to my first meeting with CAHMS, I find these appointments difficult and they usually reduce to me talking like an idiot, too fast and a load of rubbish, so a memo for me will help. I am sure my mum, brother, Uncle and nephew all have AS traits that have never been diagnosed, especially my Mum and younger brother .

[tabz2711]

hi hun.........I grew up in stockie .........I now live the other side of macclesfield, if you need a parent support group pm me and I can give you the details.

Back to your daughter, you are definitely dong the right thing as regards school, I would,nt send her back at all till you,ve seen camhs.School for kids with ASD can be the worst , and most difficult times of their lives.Some manage to cope , others are home educated, or manage to find a specialist placement.My son was referrred to camhs at 7yrs by his school who were very worried abot his mental state, he too was depressed, subsequently he was dx with ASD.A therapist did mention that he may need to be home taught as he was in such a bad state, fortunately he was statemented and this helped,if he became depressed again I would,nt think twice about keeping him off or withdrawing him from school, take care hope that appointment comes soon <'> .Is it for macclesfield or stepping hill?.........love suzex

 

Hi Suze

thanks for your response, S has a Stepping Hill appointment, do you know anything about the CAHMS there. I am sure that I will take you up on the offer of a parent Support group. The north west Autism society have been wonderful they are based in Northenden a few miles down the road from me, they have sent lots of information to me and mentioned support groups in the area.

[Karen A]

Glad to be able to make use of the experience to help you <'> I also felt like I spouted rubbish and thought CAMHS would wonder who needed to see them- Ben or myself.All I can say is D works very closely with CAHMS in his job and finds they are really just ordinary people.The CAMHS you see will have herd all sorts of stories and it takes something very strange to shock them !!

[jb1964]

Hi Tabz,

 

Sounds like you're all having a tough time of it at the moment. As the others have said your daughter has problems and they need to be evaluated and find out what is causing her so much unhappiness - and get her signed off school like everyone has said (I don't know whether you need to let the EWO know what's going on though - we kept her informed because she kept ringing me about my daughters absence).

 

With reference to whether it could be ASD - it seems not uncommon at all that children (and adults) are not diagnosed until they are older - and I have read that girls can slip the net more easily because they somehow adapt at learning 'i'm fine' for teachers and people to leave them alone, especially when they are the passive at school and meltdown at home (schools obviously have more pull when it comes to convincing doctors there is a problem - rather than parents!!!!).

 

My daughter was referred to CAHMS at the beginning of last year (when she was 11) - because of a throat/swallowing problem which all started when she went to mainstream (referred by Paed. for suspected anorexia), her weight became critical and she was severely depressed. She'd been under the Paed. since birth for many reasons and had always had problems with eating/sleeping/constipation, behaviour and school - and although we hadn't any idea that she had ASD we always thought there was something 'different' but the Paed. thought she was just strong willed and we were anxious parents. During primary she 'coped' but was a 'loner' and would get very anxious/upset with routine changes (supply teachers/fire drills etc), teachers always commented on her old-fashioness - her vocabulary was extensive and always precise. There were many other things that were difficult - hairwashing/brushing, sensitivity to fabrics/labels, shoes were a nightmare to get - not just because of the feel but the whole process of trying things on.

 

To be perfectly honest - we had somehow managed up until she got to 7-8yrs thinking that many of her problems was because of physical sypmtoms, i.e. bad co-ordination because she was born with club foot, behaviour problems because she suffered from chronic constipation and chest/ear infections, socialising problems because she'd missed so much school because of her health. It was only when she started getting to around the age of 9-10 that you couldn't excuse everything and by the time she hit 11 we had hit the critical stage. This has continued and with puberty on top has led to my daughter to have massive emotional swings into depression - her sadness is overwhelming and there is nothing we can do to help. We have also been told that from 11-16 is the worst period of their lives (with secondary school/puberty etc).

 

When she attended the CAHMS unit it was to find out if she had an eating disorder - they were not assessing her for ASD - but during the lengthy assessment process they evaluate using lots of different assessments and many professionals become involved to get to the root of the problem.

 

I think different areas have different procedures - but here we all attended CAHMS for an initial appointment - my daughter then had a CPN visit once per week for the first month to evaluate her in her home situation - she then attended the CAHMS unit one day per week and had a home visit once per week for around 4 months. We (parents and grandparents - because they had looked after my daughter since she was tiny during work hours) had to attend the unit once every fortnight for family work - which was basically going over my daughters life since birth - and also problems that she was experiencing now.

 

It was strange for us to suddenly realise that at 11 my daughter didn't use hand gestures, that she struggled to use slang words like other children, saying ta-ra or hiya - that she wasn't becoming involved in the latest fashions/trends etc (I always commented when she was younger on how I was glad that she had her naivety and that she wasn't street-wise like some of the children were at 8) - it was all things that I'd just accepted as her and not that she was so 'different' - but the older she got the more apparent these became and now at nearly 13 the differences stand out.

 

As for having a label - we haven't told any of our family other than my parents - but it does help us in understanding why she is like she is and accepting that this is how it will always be - to realise things that we'd done that were wrong (like forcing many issues on her etc) - and the school are 'trying' to help (although resources are limited). It also helped my parents who had started to believe she was just a very badly behaved child - be more understanding.

 

Good luck and take care,

Jb

Edited June 20, 2006 by jb1964

[tabz2711]

Hi Tabz,

 

Sounds like you're all having a tough time of it at the moment. As the others have said your daughter has problems and they need to be evaluated and find out what is causing her so much unhappiness - and get her signed off school like everyone has said (I don't know whether you need to let the EWO know what's going on though - we kept her informed because she kept ringing me about my daughters absence).

 

With reference to whether it could be ASD - it seems not uncommon at all that children (and adults) are not diagnosed until they are older - and I have read that girls can slip the net more easily because they somehow adapt at learning 'i'm fine' for teachers and people to leave them alone, especially when they are the passive at school and meltdown at home (schools obviously have more pull when it comes to convincing doctors there is a problem - rather than parents!!!!).

 

My daughter was referred to CAHMS at the beginning of last year (when she was 11) - because of a throat/swallowing problem which all started when she went to mainstream (referred by Paed. for suspected anorexia), her weight became critical and she was severely depressed. She'd been under the Paed. since birth for many reasons and had always had problems with eating/sleeping/constipation, behaviour and school - and although we hadn't any idea that she had ASD we always thought there was something 'different' but the Paed. thought she was just strong willed and we were anxious parents. During primary she 'coped' but was a 'loner' and would get very anxious/upset with routine changes (supply teachers/fire drills etc), teachers always commented on her old-fashioness - her vocabulary was extensive and always precise. There were many other things that were difficult - hairwashing/brushing, sensitivity to fabrics/labels, shoes were a nightmare to get - not just because of the feel but the whole process of trying things on.

 

To be perfectly honest - we had somehow managed up until she got to 7-8yrs thinking that many of her problems was because of physical sypmtoms, i.e. bad co-ordination because she was born with club foot, behaviour problems because she suffered from chronic constipation and chest/ear infections, socialising problems because she'd missed so much school because of her health. It was only when she started getting to around the age of 9-10 that you couldn't excuse everything and by the time she hit 11 we had hit the critical stage. This has continued and with puberty on top has led to my daughter to have massive emotional swings into depression - her sadness is overwhelming and there is nothing we can do to help. We have also been told that from 11-16 is the worst period of their lives (with secondary school/puberty etc).

 

When she attended the CAHMS unit it was to find out if she had an eating disorder - they were not assessing her for ASD - but during the lengthy assessment process they evaluate using lots of different assessments and many professionals become involved to get to the root of the problem.

 

I think different areas have different procedures - but here we all attended CAHMS for an initial appointment - my daughter then had a CPN visit once per week for the first month to evaluate her in her home situation - she then attended the CAHMS unit one day per week and had a home visit once per week for around 4 months. We (parents and grandparents - because they had looked after my daughter since she was tiny during work hours) had to attend the unit once every fortnight for family work - which was basically going over my daughters life since birth - and also problems that she was experiencing now.

 

It was strange for us to suddenly realise that at 11 my daughter didn't use hand gestures, that she struggled to use slang words like other children, saying ta-ra or hiya - that she wasn't becoming involved in the latest fashions/trends etc (I always commented when she was younger on how I was glad that she had her naivety and that she wasn't street-wise like some of the children were at 8) - it was all things that I'd just accepted as her and not that she was so 'different' - but the older she got the more apparent these became and now at nearly 13 the differences stand out.

 

As for having a label - we haven't told any of our family other than my parents - but it does help us in understanding why she is like she is and accepting that this is how it will always be - to realise things that we'd done that were wrong (like forcing many issues on her etc) - and the school are 'trying' to help (although resources are limited). It also helped my parents who had started to believe she was just a very badly behaved child - be more understanding.

 

Good luck and take care,

Jb

Thank you very much JB for sharing your story with me it is much appreciated.

[tracey]

Thank you very much JB for sharing your story with me it is much appreciated.

 

Hi tabz

I dont post here much but just read your posts and had to say it sounds so much like what

my daughter is going through

shes 15 this year after I took her out of school for 3 months she returned a couple of weeks ago

first day was on a high everything was fine after that things went back to normal main things were other kids

making snide comments to her and the group she was in tended to leave her out ,run off

be spiteful and generally play on her weaknesses

once again she is off school and I am at the moment trying for a transfer only the other school has

no places I have reinstated camhs for help and hopefully I will get her in and things will be better

for her although I think everyone thinks she will possibly have the same problems at any school,

but I think a fresh start may do her good and ther must be some decent kids somewhere out there with a similar personality to my daughter who has her ways but would never hurt anyones feelings and is

never spiteful.

Tracey

[tabz2711]

Hi tabz

I dont post here much but just read your posts and had to say it sounds so much like what

my daughter is going through

shes 15 this year after I took her out of school for 3 months she returned a couple of weeks ago

first day was on a high everything was fine after that things went back to normal main things were other kids

making snide comments to her and the group she was in tended to leave her out ,run off

be spiteful and generally play on her weaknesses

once again she is off school and I am at the moment trying for a transfer only the other school has

no places I have reinstated camhs for help and hopefully I will get her in and things will be better

for her although I think everyone thinks she will possibly have the same problems at any school,

but I think a fresh start may do her good and ther must be some decent kids somewhere out there with a similar personality to my daughter who has her ways but would never hurt anyones feelings and is

never spiteful.

Tracey

 

Hi Tracey

thank you for taking the time to read my post and for sharing your experiences with me. I am going to PM you

[tabz2711]

Just to update all those lovely people out there that have responded and helped me over the past few days.

I had a phone call from the attendence officer at S school, I had a long talk with her and said that S was school phobic and depressed. She understood completely and said that I was doing the best for S at the moment and she would talk to S head of year. I feel much better that the school knows now and hopefully I can arrange a meeting with the head of year to help S more.

 

Please can anyone tell me if their sons or daughters dislikes their teachers( more in secondary school she was fine with her teachers in primary school) , S I think is scared of all the control and power they have(her words not mine) and this seems to be part of her problem in not wanting to go to school as well as it being to big of a change for her. S dad is a teacher poor man!

many thanks will keep you all posted

[Suze]

A very loud male teacher exacerbated my sons problems, kept him behind for not finishing his work (he,s dyslexic ), punished him for being last to get changed at swimming (he,s dyspraxic )...........chased him across the playground during pe because he refused to wear bells on his arms during dance (he ran out of the school).This all happened when he was 7 he eventually was referred for depression to camhs.The teacher believed he was just spoilt and trying to get attention .It,s no wonder our kids hate school is it????............but I must say there are good teachers out there the next year he had a fantastic teacher fresh from uni who brought him back from the brink .

[jb1964]

Hi Tabz,

 

There is such a big difference between the teaching in primary and secondary - which is why they get so anxious.

 

The CPN told us that problems get worse once they go to secondary school - and it is very often only then that children that were previously passive in school - start to have problems where the teachers will take notice.

 

In primary they have the same teacher for the whole year (except of course when there is a supply teacher) - they have the same classroom day in day out for the whole year - their day is structured and teachers talk differently, they have routine and providing the teachers themselves don't upset them they cope better.

 

Once they go to secondary - the whole thing scales up - there are more children - they have different teachers for different lessons - lessons in different classrooms, different subjects different days, and the teachers talk to them differently - their expectations are higher and they expect them to follow and understand what they say - it takes longer for children to get to know their teachers as they don't see them that often - it's more of a case of get on with it - also teachers tend to be more assertive whereas when they are younger teachers tend to use a softer approach. Playgrounds and canteens etc are noisier and the buildings have so many classrooms.

 

There are so many differences, and I know with my daughter she struggles so much to try to explain into words exactly what she is feeling or why - very often it is pure guesswork.

 

Good luck with the Head of Year.

Jb

[tabz2711]

Hi Tabz,

 

There is such a big difference between the teaching in primary and secondary - which is why they get so anxious.

 

The CPN told us that problems get worse once they go to secondary school - and it is very often only then that children that were previously passive in school - start to have problems where the teachers will take notice.

 

In primary they have the same teacher for the whole year (except of course when there is a supply teacher) - they have the same classroom day in day out for the whole year - their day is structured and teachers talk differently, they have routine and providing the teachers themselves don't upset them they cope better.

 

Once they go to secondary - the whole thing scales up - there are more children - they have different teachers for different lessons - lessons in different classrooms, different subjects different days, and the teachers talk to them differently - their expectations are higher and they expect them to follow and understand what they say - it takes longer for children to get to know their teachers as they don't see them that often - it's more of a case of get on with it - also teachers tend to be more assertive whereas when they are younger teachers tend to use a softer approach. Playgrounds and canteens etc are noisier and the buildings have so many classrooms.

 

There are so many differences, and I know with my daughter she struggles so much to try to explain into words exactly what she is feeling or why - very often it is pure guesswork.

 

Good luck with the Head of Year.

Jb

thank you I am going to see the head of year tomorrow. S said she will go to school on Monday, I won't hold my breathe lol. S problems were not helped because she changed schools at 14 and had to fit in with girls who had been there since Yr 7 and also she was at a mixed comprehensive before and then transfered to an all girls Grammer school.

[Kathryn]

Hi tabz,

 

Good luck with the meeting tomorrow - I hope something constructive comes out of it. My daughter L also had to change schools and go into a class where everyone else knew each other, and she found it very tough too.

 

On hating teachers - there were a few that L disliked and even feared at secondary school. She was helped in years 7-9 by having an excellent form tutor who really tried her best to smooth the way for her and act as a buffer between her and other teachers who might have given her a hard time. Unfortunately she did not take to the new year 10 tutor and this is where the real problems began - there was no one to look out for her.

 

K x

[tabz2711]

Hi tabz,

 

Good luck with the meeting tomorrow - I hope something constructive comes out of it. My daughter L also had to change schools and go into a class where everyone else knew each other, and she found it very tough too.

 

On hating teachers - there were a few that L disliked and even feared at secondary school. She was helped in years 7-9 by having an excellent form tutor who really tried her best to smooth the way for her and act as a buffer between her and other teachers who might have given her a hard time. Unfortunately she did not take to the new year 10 tutor and this is where the real problems began - there was no one to look out for her.

 

K x

 

Hi Kathryn

thanks for your message, the meeting went really well with the head of year and when I told her what were suspect about S she said it all follows with her behaviour at school, lack of eye contact and her seeming rude.

 

I explained that S had not finished her dress in technology when she had told the teacher it was finished, she laughed and said that it was not the first time that had happened, she also said that she would talk to the other teachers about S not completing coursework because she thought she was going back to her old school. all in all I was happy with the meeting. The head of year said as soon as she gets Dx of AS they will be able to get extra help for her, but my belief is that it will take a long time to get a DX and maybe too late for her at this school.

 

My other worry is "What if" she hasn't got AS. Is she just a very difficult child, who can be rude, unsociable and very blunt to everyone. I keep on reading articles about people with AS and some are just not S.

 

But then I think about her childhood and how unsociable she has always been, needing to be prewarned if we were planning to go out somewhere, refusing to go on holiday and all the things she has said and thought

We used to have mobile homes in France and Wales and S hated Wales but loved France one year we were going to Wales during the summer and at the last minute decided to go to France instead but thought we would surprise the kids and see when they would notice that we were travelling in a different direction. When they eventually found out everyone was happy but S, she went mad and wanted to go to Wales because she had not prepared herself for France.

 

The other week we were talking about being spontanious and put some examples in place, I said to S "if my sister phoned up now and said she has 6 tickets to go to New york in 2 hours would you go"( S would love to go to New York) her reply was that it wouldn't happen because her auntie only had five in her family so she wouldn't have six tickets. I said just say she did have a six tickets would you go, she then replied "What would happen to the dogs we couldn't go because no one would look after them, then she couldn't go because her favourite jeans were in the wash, "what if we were given loads of money to buy new clothes at the airport" and it went on and on and on. Luckily S saw the funny side of it and we all howled with laughter.

 

S always brings soaps into our conversation and believes them to be really life.

 

I am really worried that it could be something else and I am totally barking up the wrong tree and if it is something else what could it be.

 

We have not heard from CAHMs yet they said they would make an urgent appointment for her, the appointments are only on a Weds morning and we have an prearranged appointment before the urgent one came up to see the DR at the Paediatric clinic on the 4th July, I am really hoping the CAHMS one comes up first.

Edited June 22, 2006 by tabz2711

[marshmallow]

Hi tabz2711,

 

<'> <'> <'> For you and your daughter, I hope you get the help that you need soon, I went through a very difficult time in school myself and I know its hard. It sounds promising though that the school see where you are coming from with your suspicions.

[Suze]

hi tabz...........you could try phoning up the appts at camhs to see where you are on the list ask if it,s possible to be seen before your appt with the pead.My son confuses me too he does,nt tick every box for aspergers either.Hope you hear about the camhs appt soon suzex.

[Kathryn]

Hi tabz,

 

So far so good - encouraging news about the meeting - sometimes teachers can be very dismissive in such situations but it sounds as though the head of year understands your concerns and agrees in principle that extra support is needed for your daughter, which is a good start.

 

I really hope your questions are resolved one way or the other very soon. From your description of your daughter there's enough to make a dx worth pursuing, I think. You have nothing to lose and you have to start somewhere in order to get to the root of her difficulties.

 

K x

[jb1964]

The head of year said as soon as she gets Dx of AS they will be able to get extra help for her, but my belief is that it will take a long time to get a DX and maybe too late for her at this school.

 

Hi Tabz,

 

My daughter didn't attend for the first six months she started secondary school due to a swallowing/throat problem. Obviously the EWO/School were kept informed and we had some review meetings to let them know what was happening, ie. Paed/consultants etc. During this period she was referred to CAHMS and although we had been quietly told by the CPN during the 2nd appointment that she suspected AS - we did not tell the school until the official diagnosis which was in the November (just after she'd started her 2nd year). The school offered flexibility with her coming in on a part-time basis whenever she could and gave work to do at home (including her exams) they did this despite them having a diagnosis or knowing there was any possibility of ASD - they don't have to have a diagnosis to start helping your daughter.

 

The other week we were talking about being spontanious and put some examples in place, I said to S "if my sister phoned up now and said she has 6 tickets to go to New york in 2 hours would you go"( S would love to go to New York) her reply was that it wouldn't happen because her auntie only had five in her family so she wouldn't have six tickets. I said just say she did have a six tickets would you go, she then replied "What would happen tot he dogs we couldn't go because no one would look after them, thenshe couldn't go because her favourite jeans were in the wash, what if we were given loads of money to buy new clothes at the airport. And it went on and on and on.

 

What you have written could have came from my daughter. I'm sure CAHMS will get to the bottom of your daughters problems and you will start to have some answers soon.

 

Take care,

Jb

Edited June 22, 2006 by jb1964

[tabz2711]

hi tabz...........you could try phoning up the appts at camhs to see where you are on the list ask if it,s possible to be seen before your appt with the pead.My son confuses me too he does,nt tick every box for aspergers either.Hope you hear about the camhs appt soon suzex.

Hi Suze

thanks for your response, I will phone CAMHS tomorrow and ask them.

[tabz2711]

Hi Tabz,

 

My daughter didn't attend for the first six months she started secondary school due to a swallowing/throat problem. Obviously the EWO/School were kept informed and we had some review meetings to let them know what was happening, ie. Paed/consultants etc. During this period she was referred to CAHMS and although we had been quietly told by the CPN during the 2nd appointment that she suspected AS - we did not tell the school until the official diagnosis which was in the November (just after she'd started her 2nd year). The school offered flexibility with her coming in on a part-time basis whenever she could and gave work to do at home (including her exams) they did this despite them having a diagnosis or knowing there was any possibility of ASD - they don't have to have a diagnosis to start helping your daughter.

What you have written could have came from my daughter. I'm sure CAHMS will get to the bottom of your daughters problems and you will start to have some answers soon.

 

Take care,

Jb

thank you, Like everyone else here it is such an unknown experience at first, not knowing what to expect is quite hard especially as AS can be quite subtle if you are not aware of the traits of AS.

[tabz2711]

Hi

Just thought I would post an update, S went to school today and came back ok. She has even agreed to go to Alton towers with her school which she was totally against on Friday.

 

Still waiting for the emergency appointment with CAHMS hope we get it before the appointment with the Paediatric clinic which is next week. I was hoping to by pass that appointment to make it less appointments for S to go to.

 

S got her mock results back she got 74% in history and 25/25 in French which was good for a girl who has missed quite a bit on school and didn't do any studying or know that she had exams.

 

She admitted to feeling depressed tonight, mostly by her old friends who affect her when she hears what they say about her to others, this has always been the case at her old school I wish she would ignore them. they all go on the internet on My Space and leave comments for each other I am reluctant to ban it as this is how she has made friends with the girls at her new school and she finds it easier to leave comments than talk to people, but the old school friends leave horrible comments.

 

It has been a difficult week with S and also our foster daughter who disclosed some serious stuff which has shocked us all and especially S as she is very close to her she has not coped well at all with it. I sometimes wonder how my four are really affected when they hear things that they should not hear at their age.

sorry to babble on just needed a listening ear as I am feeling confused, tired and very emotional it seems to be one thing after another at the moment.

[Kathryn]

Hi Tabz,

 

Plenty of listening ears here. <'>

 

It's good to hear that things aren't all negative for S at the new school. It's a difficult situation with the internet as things can get nasty but I understand you not wanting to ban it. It's a big part of L's life too. I hope your daughter manages eventually to sever ties with the people who are making it tough for her.

 

You've got a lot on your plate right now, hang in there and I hope you get some more support soon, starting next week.

 

K x

[tabz2711]

Hi Tabz,

 

Plenty of listening ears here. <'>

 

It's good to hear that things aren't all negative for S at the new school. It's a difficult situation with the internet as things can get nasty but I understand you not wanting to ban it. It's a big part of L's life too. I hope your daughter manages eventually to sever ties with the people who are making it tough for her.

 

You've got a lot on your plate right now, hang in there and I hope you get some more support soon, starting next week.

 

K x

 

Thanks K

Its good to know that S isn't the only one using the internet, it became an obsession with S but over the past couple of weeks I have managed to wean her off it a bit. My space is causing so many problems with her but also helping her have relationships with her friends who leave lovely comments for her and build up her confidence. I think eventually S will also be able to sever ties with the girls who are causing her to have anxiety attacks and depression.

S *

[tabz2711]

Thanks K

Its good to know that S isn't the only one using the internet, it became an obsession with S but over the past couple of weeks I have managed to wean her off it a bit. My space is causing so many problems with her but also helping her have relationships with her friends who leave lovely comments for her and build up her confidence. I think eventually S will also be able to sever ties with the girls who are causing her to have anxiety attacks and depression.

S *

 

Just to let you know the time is 20.38 and S has not even asked to go on the computer, are things looking up.

[tabz2711]

Just to let you all know, I got a phonecall at 9.30am to bring S in for to CAHMS at 1.30pm.

Ahhhh just been to pick S up from school as she needs plenty of warning

find someone for my foster daughter to go whilst we are there

phone social worker to tell them who is looking after her

and then phone hubby at school a difficult task to arrange for him to get time off to meet us there.

No wonder I have a pain down my arm and chest, just taken a asprin just in case.

[marshmallow]

<'> Hope it goes well and she get the support and help she needs, and you too! <'>

[jb1964]

Only just read this - good luck Tabz.

 

Take care,

Jb

[Kathryn]

Tabz - just seen this news: by now you'll have had the appointment. I hope it went OK and that you were all well enough prepared despite the short notice.

 

I really hope CAMHS can find a way to help your daughter.

 

<'>

 

K x

[Karen A]

Really hope it went well and CAHMS were supportive.Karen