medical evidence

[JenRose]

Just got a call from Parent Partnership, she told me that the LEA have said that M should not have been referred to home tuition as there is no medical evidence.

 

I cant believe them, in a meeting in March i handed the EWO,s a copy of the psychologists letter saying that M suffered from anxiety and OCD and that this is the reason that he was out of school, i had to give them this as they claimed that the original EWO hadnt passed them the letter.

 

Now they are saying there is no evidence to support home tuition and they have put this in the Tribunal papers, their "evidence" against a statement is that

 

1, M is not in school so they cant asess him

2, The SENCO says in her opinion that M doesnt have AS

3, They dont see the anxious behaviour that M displays

4, There is now no medical evidence.

 

The NHS psych has discharged herself from the case, have now found out that LEA complained about her saying that she should not have told us to try for a statement and that they are not acecpting her letter.

 

Cant get hold of my IPSEA rep so wondering if anyone can put my panicking mind at ease.

 

Thanks

[phasmid]

Just got a call from Parent Partnership, she told me that the LEA have said that M should not have been referred to home tuition as there is no medical evidence.

 

I cant believe them, in a meeting in March i handed the EWO,s a copy of the psychologists letter saying that M suffered from anxiety and OCD and that this is the reason that he was out of school, i had to give them this as they claimed that the original EWO hadnt passed them the letter.

 

Now they are saying there is no evidence to support home tuition and they have put this in the Tribunal papers,

 

First off do the meetings minutes mention the handing over of these letters? If they do (and they ought to) then you have proof that you provided evidence of medical difficulties - if they have 'lost' them they are playing a very stupid game. If the letter(s) you handed over at this meeting were the originals ...don't panic! They will be on record somewhere. First place to go is back to to the pyschologist who made the dx and ask them to supply you with a copy. If they can't/won't them it is onto option 2 your gp. If this is also a no go then you will need to contact your local health authority, but I doubt you'll need to get this far.

 

(My advice for anyone is to scan such letters onto your pc and only ever provide copies - never originals - which you can print off as and when needed.)

 

their "evidence" against a statement is that

 

 

 

1, M is not in school so they cant asess him

2, The SENCO says in her opinion that M doesnt have AS

3, They dont see the anxious behaviour that M displays

4, There is now no medical evidence.

 

1. They have assessments carried out previously I assume - they can refer to them. Exactly what 'assessments' are they stating that they cannot do?

 

2. Unless the SENCo is medically qualified to make a diagnosis or challenge one then their opinion is that of a lay person, they are not qualified as a SENCo to say he has or has not got AS OR anything else!

 

3. Unless proper observations are carried out over a period of time they are not likely to. A half hour here or there is simply not enough - especialy if the child knows they are being watched specificaly!

 

4. Yes, there is. You provided it at least twice and will provide it again.

 

 

The NHS psych has discharged herself from the case, have now found out that LEA complained about her saying that she should not have told us to try for a statement and that they are not acecpting her letter.

 

Do you know if pressure was placed on her to discharge by the LEA? If there was and she is prepared to state this in writing it will look particularly bad for the LEAs case regarding her evidence. As far as I am aware she has every right to make a recommendation to go for a statement - she has the qualifications to back her up - something , as I said, that I doubt the senco has!

 

Cant get hold of my IPSEA rep so wondering if anyone can put my panicking mind at ease.

 

Thanks

 

Hope that helps.

 

Now start making those phone calls to get hold of a new copy of that letter!

[JenRose]

Thanks phasmid.

I do have a copy of the psychologist letter and i also have the minutes from another meeting saying that michaels absence is to be authorised and backdated.

 

Parent Partnership told me a couple of months ago that a letter had gone to CAMHS from the LEA saying that they werent impressed with the psych saying that michael needed a statement.

 

I very much doubt that the psych will put anything in writing as she backs down as soon as there is any conflict and yesterday couldnt wait to discharge herself.

 

Michael has had a full IQ asessment and educational asessment done, the first by CAMHS and the 2nd by our private psychologist so for the school to say they need for him to have another asessment and monitor his behaviour is confusing.

 

I challenged the LEA yesterday as to why they will not provide michael with an asessment and she said it is because i "removed" michael from school and they cant asess him if he,s not in school.

I told her that i knew that they can as IPSEA have told me that they can do it in the home or school or whereever and she said no thats only for the under 5,s.

 

In their papers for the tribunal they have completely omitted the psychologists letter stating michaels difficulties and say there is no medical evidence, but how would we have got home tuition for him if there was none?

 

Thanks

[Tez]

I know how horrible this is. A few weeks ago I received the LEA's case statement for tibunal and the distortions and lies in it made me feel physically sick, but take a minute and look through the LEA's case statement and you can use their evidence against them.

 

Firstly, it is perfectly possible to assess a child who is not in school. A was assessed out of school, the EP came to the house and did all the observations. There are others on the board whose children were also assessed at home, whilst out of school. (Edited to say - just seen your last post - A was actually 14 when he was assessed so definitely over 5)

 

The SENCO's opinion counts for nothing. I know you had some disputes even with the original psychologist as to whether M had AS but you now have a perfectly valid DX from a person qualified to give it. Nobody would question a cancer dx obtained privately so they should not question an AS dx obtained in the same manner. In any case, you don't have to have a dx for a statutory assessment to be carried out, you just have to demonstrate that the child's needs are not being met.

 

The school do not have to see the anxious behaviour that M displays, the reports can come from an appropriately qualified medical person, so your private psychologist can supply the evidence. That's precisely why you're appealing for statutory assessment, because the school and the LEA are refusing to acknowledge that problems exist and to put appropriate support into place. If they don't acknowledge that there are any problems why have they provided home tuition for all these months?

 

Agree with phasmid over the medical evidence you can obtain a copy from your son's medical records, the psychologist has to give them to you, you have a legal right, moreover, you can always argue that why have the LEA provided the home tuition all this time if there was no need, obviously there was a need or they wouldn't have agreed.

 

Also remember that you can submit late evidence to tribunal to show the errors in the LEA's case statement (send the psychologist's letter and any other relevant letters you have), don't say that they lied just refer to basic but vital errors which means that in order to adequately represent your son you need to provide additional evidence and that not to do so would mean that the child's interests could not be properly represented.

Edited July 14, 2006 by Tez

[JenRose]

Just had a look through the tribunal evidence that LEA have sent, they say that they received a letter from the NHS psych supporting a carefuly planned reintegration package.

 

At the beginning of this letter the psych says i am writing to you to enable you to progress michaels home tuition, and then further on she says that michael has been known to CAMHS for some months, that he has anxiety and obsessional issues and that they (CAMHS) have been helping us as his parents and him learn how to cope with these issues.

 

So to me that backs up exactly what we have been saying all along that mike does have anxiety etc and that she thinks he should have home tuition and then a careful reintegration package.

 

 

Now, re the reintegration, when the time got near for mike to return to school the vomitting,soiling started again, on the advice of our psych who said dont send him back to the old school AND in a phone call the the NHS psych who said she was in agreement with the private psych and that if anyone had a problem from the LEA to call her, we didnt take him into the old school.

 

Yesterday they picked and picked at me asking me when did mike start showing signs of anxiety etc, i think they are going to try and use this against me saying that i have been keeping michael at home unessacarily.

 

Because yesterday they kept saying that they need michael in school as they dont "see" this behaviour and they need to be able to monitor his progress and when michael is back in school "This will drive SEN participation"

 

So, confused?

Cos i am!!

[Tez]

Just stay strong. M is still signed off school sick. You have the medical backing of two psycs who have told you not to send him back to the old school. Try and get this in writing from them both and send it as late evidence to the tribunal.

 

Then at tribunal you have to argue your case that since nothing had changed putting M back into that environment especially given the problems leading up to you trying previously would cause him further psychological harm. Stresss here that it is the needs of the child that are paramount and that his views should also be taken into account and that he does not want to return to the school. When he does return to school, he's going to need close support and other strategies put into place to help him otherwise his health will further deteriorate. Hence your need for a statutory assessment to determine what those needs are so that proper provision can be put into place. You won't put him back into an environment that has already made him ill without significant changes and additional support being in place. That would be tantamount to abuse.

[JenRose]

Do i need to get another letter saying that M is still signed off sick?

 

Parent Partnership have told me that its the LEA,s problem if they are saying that they dont have sufficient evidence for home tuition, not mine.

 

Sorry for the questions, its just that im really confused.

[jen]

What does the sick note say on it. You can use this as evidence, go back to who ever gave you the previous sick note and ask for copies due to a problem with the LEA.

 

 

Jen

[JenRose]

I have a copy of it here, this is what it says:

 

Dear .... EWO Lady

 

I am sorry we appear to have missed each other on several occasions over the past 2 days. I thought it therefore better that I write this letter to you so that you are in a position to progress M,s home tuition.

M has been known to our department since last May. He was seen and treated under my supervision by a Trainee Clinical Psychologist who did a full intellectual assessment of M, a report of which has been sent to his school. In addition, he worked with both M and his parents in helping them to understand M,s extremely high levels of anxiety and also his obsessional behaviours.

 

M falls within the superior range of intellectual abilities and as such does not have any difficulty with the academic side of school life. He does however have severe difficulties with peer group relationships and in managing his anxious and obsessional thoughts. M is currently undergoing a further specialist assessment to find out if his problems place him within the autistic spectrum.

 

I understand that he is currently showing extreme signs of anxiety whenever he attends school. His mother reports that he has been vomiting prior to going to school and that one evening having managed to attend school he spent the entire evening vomiting.

 

Both Mr and Mrs ..... are extremely keen for M to be reintegrated into the school setting. They particularly emphasise the importance of peer group relationships in order for M to develop socially. However, they currently cannot bear the level of distress which he shows if they try to take him to school.

 

I would consider that M needs a concerted programme of careful reintegration into his school. He will need some more therapy in order to help him with his extreme anxiety and the CAMHS team are currently planning for form that this will take.

 

 

This letter was dated 18 Jan 2006.

 

Parent Partnership tell me that in their opinion it is sufficient, as it details M,s difficuties and recommends home tuition.

 

They wanted M to go back into school in May but a couple of weeks before he was due to go back the vomiting and soiling started again, so on the advice of our private psych, i telephoned the NHS psych and told her that M wasnt ready to go into school and she said she would go along with what our psych was saying and that if we got any problems with the LEA to tell them to phone her.

 

I did advise the LEA and got no comeback, no phonecalls or letters or anything so im a bit surprised that they suddenly say that there is no medical evidence.

 

And as its now July, surely they could have acted sooner than 2 months down the line, we think and our psych does that they are throwing anything at us as we are definately going to Tribunal in Sep.

 

Thanks

[JenRose]

bump

[call me jaded]

You could subpeona the NHS psych and force him/her to attend the tribunal. You really need legal representation if at all possible.

[JenRose]

Thanks for the reply jaded.

 

I have a rep from IPSEA coming with me and also our private psych is being called as an expert witness so hoping that this will be enough.

[onlycrazygal]

hi,

just read your post and simply had to reply to this.......please, please, be very careful what you say to parenting partnership......LEA pays there wages, i wouldnt lie hun , i have proof!!!

she is probably very nice, but whatever you say to this lady will go straight to the EWO......have a think about it.....they advertise online as a confidential service and an independant one .....I AM LIVING PROOF THEY ARE NOT!!!!

SHE IS A PROFESSIONAL AND WILL SHARE INFORMATION WITH OTHER PROFESSIONALS.......

please be careful love,

hugs,

paula x

[PinkSapphireAngel]

I would agree about PP hun, they can be helpful sometimes with answering questions or getting answers from an ignorant LEA but at the end of the day they are employed by the LEA.

 

My PP are talking to LEA about the note in lieu as I told them they have ignored several major points from the assessment reports, but I have gone ahead and appealed today to SENDIST again off my own back.

 

I really hope it works out for you xxx

[Karen A]

I would like to put in a word of support for parent partnership.Some may be better than others.However we have had excellent suport from our named worker whilst getting statement for Ben.Highly professional individual with excellent knowledge and experience.She used the contacts she had to obtain advice for us.She even obtained a meeting with the senior officer at the LEA at 10 minutes notice -she was aware the officer was on site and found she had a space.I felt it very important to state this.Many users on the site will use pp and if pp have an oppurtunity to do their job and do it well-then fewer people will need to go through the stress of tribunal to get the help they need.Just because pp are funded by the LEA does not prevent them being professional.I am not saying that some people have not had bad experiences.However TAs,HT,EPs are also all employed by the LEA.Looking at posts on the forum it is clear that there are excellent and incompetent individuals in all groups.PP were the first point of contact for us when we were told Ben was struggleing at school.This is the case for many parents.I think that as this is the current system in place it is important to work with pp unless we have a reason not to.I also note that of all the professionals we have had contact with our pp were the most keen to obtain feedback from parents and were the individuals most interested in our opinion of what Ben needed. Thats my little rant over.Karen

[PinkSapphireAngel]

Its great you had such a positive experience Karen.

I was warned by IPSEA that PP are NOT impartial and are really there to keep things smoothed overfor the LEA and schools.

But PP do not have the same powers as tribunal and when you have an LEA who think they are above law and morals it is all you can do.

 

When appealing to tribunal you can take back you appeal at any time anyway, but as you only have 2 months in which to appeal (from the date the LEAs letter has on it) the earlier the better.

 

When you have problems with school PP can sometimes be helpful but schools can even make that awkward as they do not like their involvement.

 

I like PP but would not rely on them alone as they can only really help IF the LEA are willing to work with parents.

[JenRose]

I have found my PP to be very helpful, particularly in meetings and it was them who told me that the LEA are out of order in what they are saying, i do not what you are saying about not telling them everything though and i am being very careful as to what i am telling them.

 

Just waiting to hear from my IPSEA rep about what she thinks of the Tribunal papers, our private psych started laughing when he read them and said "why do they bother, they lose these all the time"

 

PP have asked to look at the Tribunal papers, is that not a good idea?

[JenRose]

Just seen your post Pink sapphire, its funny that we had the meeting on Thursday, PP were not there but i got a phonecall from them the next day saying that they had been told the meeting was definate(no surprises there then) and that the LEA were saying that M,s absence was not authorised.

 

Me thinks that the LEA phoned them to ask where they were and just slipped into the conversation about M being off school illegally knowing that they would mention it to us.

 

We are very fortunate because our private psych used to be an IPSEA rep (his daughter is AS) and knows the ins and outs of the LEA and how they work.

 

And another thing, yesterday M,s friend brought a school photo round that school had asked him to give M.

Its a picture of M,s class,teacher,head and teaching assistants but M is not on the picture and was not invited to have his picture taken.

The school has closed now as it is being knocked down and all pupils are transferring to a new one with another 2 schools so you can imagine how angry i was to receive this especially since M said to me, why wasnt he allowed to have a picture with his friends, he,s only been with them since reception.

 

Why send a picture to M? its like saying look this is what you have missed AND there was an end of school party of Friday that they also didnt invite M to, but some of his classmates live on our street and have been telling him about it, we were in school on Thursday why not ask if he wanted to go, its not his fault that he,s not been in school why punish him?

[phasmid]

PP service is supposed to be run 'at arms length' from the LEA. Best practice would be a bought in service based away from the LEA itself. Sadly this happens very rarely. PP are funded by the LEA, the service is a reuirement under one of the education acts (which one escapes me right now). Some are run well and as they should be, others sadly are not. If your PP is a good one then yes share with them. They are supposed to be there to help you and provide you with information on whatever your difficulty is. They can only do this effectively if they are aware of everything. That said if they are going to run to the LEA and tell them what your grounds for appeal are etc - don't!

[PinkSapphireAngel]

Jen that is awful, why are these people so petty??

 

Keep a note of all of this too.

Have you involved your MP?

I keep mine updated on everything and he writes to the head of LEA a lot asking him questions, I admit head of LEA still does not do much but its good he knows there are other people who know the facts, never know when it might help.

 

xxx

[onlycrazygal]

hey guys,

apologies i had no intention of panicing anyone........i feel it would be best to share my experience of pp.....for the record! i guess ive always thought especially over the past 10yrs or so to act with an air of caution no matter who it is or how independant they profess to be....

 

i first met pp lady after contacting her about my son and his school refusal......a very nice lady who had three children of her own with asd s.....her role as she described it was totally confidential unless i specified otherwise and independant from the LEA and SS....

She seemed like a god send so i told her everything as at the time i was so desperate for someone somewhere to know what was going on......

she offered our bean a place at the 4 to 6 club once a week which was great, she interacted with him and myself over the weeks and gained our trust......my son had started on the familiar pattern of refusal once more and the LEA were full of threats that despite my disability and my sons obvious difficulties i would be prosecuted if i didnt get him in school.......

one day pp came round and had a chat with our bean, about school and how he felt things may change there so he would feel more comfortable.......previously my son had told no-one about his problems exept myself , he was ashamed and embarrassed that he had problems, so it was a huge step he took that day when he told the pp lady everything!!!!

he told her how he found it hard to sit still , how he felt urges inside to move and shout out.....

(this turned out to be tourettes) how he didnt understand what the teacher had said, how he found handwriting incredibly hard......how he couldnt focus long enough to read , found himself trying to read the same line over and over.......

i was exstatic beyond words i was not the only one who knew ........

pp told him she would try and help him and spoke to school......

unknown to me she had relayed all information to education social worker, bearing in mind this esw had me labeled as msbp....i had expressed my dislike of this esw and the bullying tactics she had used with my son....all this was fed back.....i asked pp if it would be possible to have my son assessed at home in view of school refusal , she said noooooo paula you must get con into school on a regular basis before he can be assessed as school pays a percentage of the fees......

i found out off ipsea this was untrue,......the situation went on and on.....then pp lady and esw came round one day stating they had approached the ss , and that the ss were sympathetic to my situation and that finally they were willing to listen to what i had to say regarding my sons behaviour and his needs......they had set up a meeting and both esw and pp lady pleaded with me to attend assuring me i would get support.

after there insistance i agreed, the day of the meeting was a farce, my parenting was shredded beyond recognition, everytime i opened my mouth i was told to be quiet or the chair would speak right across me, he even totally ignored my eldest son that was trying to speak.....the camhs doctors report appeared infront of us to read with his non-diagnosis.

i was told by the chair to get my son into school or he would be put on the register, i kept looking across at the pp lady an she didnt bat an eyelid....

a core assessment was initiated and i was left in the room alone where i sobbed uncontrolably.....

then i found out that the pp lady had interviewed my son without my knoledge, asking him if he thought he had tourettes etc. this was at the 4 to 6 club whilst i was in the next room having a cuppa!!!

they called a case conference as i had withdrawn my son from school as he was having panic attacks to the point of vomiting.....i had no choice, i told ss and they stated they didnt care if he paniced or vomited etc he had to go in school ....i refused to put him through it any more.....

ss wanted to interview him on his own, i said no way and asked pp lady if she would sit with him.......she said yes, however the morning of the interview she hobbled down my path clutching her back.....she told me she was sorry but she couldnt be there with con as she had back pain and was going to see the chiropracter.......then she pulled me into the other room and whispered, theyve been on the phone , the ss ......they dont feel its appropriate that i sit with him , they have arranged for someone else to do it.....

 

anyway at the case conference, i was confident, i had done my homework, i quoted acts , policies, protocols, best practice guidance , you name it......i proved without doubt that the doctor had lied to me.......etc.

when it came to the time where everyone had to decide wether my son would be put on the register it went round the table, about half a dozen had said yes i was in shock and had started crying, it came to the pp ladies turn, i covered my face with my hands and shouted noooo nooooo.......as i knew that this woman knew without doubt that my son had problems, and that i wasnt making things up......as i sat and sobbed she said yes put him on the register......i will never forget it, she had betrayed my son so much....i was devastated that day.......emotional abuse/coz i took him out of school.......physical abuse/as my son has a weight problem that we battle with every day.......sorry to go on, but this lady did what i could never do.......and that was put her job before my son.......

hugs,

paula.....

[JenRose]

paula,

I am so sorry that you had to go through that, its disgusting.

How is your son now, did he end up going back into school?

 

<'>

[onlycrazygal]

its ok love,

no need to be sorry, its their doing......

my son still isnt in school, hes now been without an education for 2years......he was diagnosed in april with aspergers tourettes, ocd,add, odd and sid.....the LEA wont even assess him, there saying that because i de-registered him back in january, its not there responsability.......

they must however get real, and look at why i de-registered him, eg. panic attacks under the pressure of being told that i will go to prison and it will be his fault. myself being threatened with court action and the ss telling me i must get him in school or he go s on the register.....

it was too much for us as a family , i was scared to death i was going to lose him, so to save his sanity and mine i de-registered.....since that time i have also been fighting for home tuition at least until he has seen professionals and recieved adequate treatment...

as for the pp lady , well im still instructed i must go to her club with my son, which he enjoys so i dont mind.

however she do s insist on writing silly things in reports like, ....con came to club today he seems fine, i detected an odour of sweat under some body spray to disguise the smell........

lol i have to laff at that comment hes 10yrs old for gods sake......

hugs,

[Karen A]

Paula very sorry if I upsett you.I in no way would want to suggest that you have not had an utterly awful time.I just hoped to put across another view point. <'> Karen

[JenRose]

however she do s insist on writing silly things in reports like, ....con came to club today he seems fine, i detected an odour of sweat under some body spray to disguise the smell........

lol i have to laff at that comment hes 10yrs old for gods sake......

hugs,

 

WHAT?

Does she not have anything better to do?

I bet you are fuming because i would be