Emotional age

[KarenT]

I've read somewhere recently that children with ASDs tend to function emotionally and socially at approximately two-thirds of their chronological age, trouble is I can't for the life of me remember where.

 

I know I've seen it mentioned on here as well so I know some of you are aware of it. Can anyone direct me to the source, whose theory it is etc? I'd like to know so that I can use it to explain J's social delays.

 

Karen

x

[baddad]

I've read somewhere recently that children with ASDs tend to function emotionally and socially at approximately two-thirds of their chronological age, trouble is I can't for the life of me remember where.

 

I know I've seen it mentioned on here as well so I know some of you are aware of it. Can anyone direct me to the source, whose theory it is etc? I'd like to know so that I can use it to explain J's social delays.

 

Karen

x

 

Spooky - I was quoting the very same theory earlier today! I don't know where it's from either, and I don't generally hold with these kinds of rules of thumb, but i do think this seems to make a bit of sense for many HFA/Asperger's people...

 

L&P

 

BD

[Guest Lya of the Nox]

i have seen it somewhere too but cant find it right now

x

[Mumble]

I'm going to be as helpful as everyone else - heard it too (and recently) but not sure where

 

It makes a lot of sense to me in terms of why I get on better with my (NT) sister now - taking the 2/3 we're pretty much the same 'age' and why I was considered so 'emotionally immature' at school and why I just wasn't interested in typical 'teenage' things.

 

Interestingly, although the 2/3 figure is the one often quoted (and I'll try and find where), Tony Attwood in his new 'Complete Guide' doesn't use a ratio figure but instead says that:

• 'The emotional maturity of children with Asperger's Syndrome is usually at least three years behind that of their peers.'

From a research point of view, this is a particularly problematic statement in that '3 years' will be hugely different for a 3 year old and an 18 year old. Looking at children only also fails to account for adult development. The 'at least' part is difficult to interpret in that it fails to locate the 'floor' of the effect or to say anything qualitative about why children may be more or less than the three years.

 

I would certainly favour the 2/3 explanation and this seems to fit mine and others' experiences better - I'll keep looking

[Bard]

This is facinating, B is definitely around 9 emotionally, in all sorts of different ways.

He's also taller than me, with increasingly hairy aspects, and a teenager skin.

It makes life so hard for them doesn't it, outside and inside not matching up.

His sister has formed a much better relationship with him over the last year and a half, as she has come to realise and accept this part of him and accommodate him.

I'd be very interested if anyone could find the reference...isn't that one of your specialities Mumble?

I'll pin my hopes on you.

[Mumble]

Ok, I found a reference - not the one I was actually looking for, but interesting none-the-less:

 

Asperger Syndrome and Adolescence: Practical Solutions for School Success By Diane Adreon, Dr Brenda Smith Myles

 

Page 8 of this notes that:

• 'Particularly during the teen years, students with AS may appear to have the emotional maturity of someone two-thirds their age.'

If you want more details of the book this link should take you to the Google Books site (unfortunatly page 8 is locked to non-subscribers).

 

I'm going to keep looking for a different reference.

 

Mumble

[Mumble]

These are better (I've tried to quote the particular text highlighting the two-thirds issue and provide links to the entire sites for more info). I'm interested in the idea that it's most prevelent between the ages of 9 and 19. Surely a 19 year old with the emotional maturity of a 12 year old isn't going to hit their 20th birthday and suddenly have the emotional maturity of a 20 year old - I would suggest (and this is true in my case) that the effect continues into adulthood.

 

First, a book review from the Autism Society of Wisconsin:

"Asperger Syndrome and Difficult Moments: Practical Solutions for Tantrums, Rage, and Meltdowns by Brenda Smith Myles and Jack Southwick, Autism Asperger Publishing Company, 1999. Previously published as Asperger Syndrome and Rage: Practical Solutions for a Difficult Moment.

 

The book begins by giving an overview of the characteristics of Asperger Syndrome and how they impact behavior. I would like to quote one that I find very meaningful, from the section entitled "Maturity," "A rule of thumb: The child with neurological difficulties has an emotional maturity level that is significantly below his/her chronological age. Particularly between ages 9 and 19, children with Asperger Syndrome may appear to have the emotional maturity of someone two-thirds their age."

 

Second, from Asperger Syndrome Information:

"Individuals with Asperger Syndrome also have difficulty applying information and skills

when placed in different situations, that is, they have great difficulty generalizing information. Their difficulties with social situations lead to difficulties understanding social cues such as frowns, smiles, boredom, and other ranges of emotions. These symptoms intensify between the ages of 9 and 19 when these children often appear to have the emotional maturity of someone two-thirds their age. (Myles & Southwick, 1999)"

 

And thirdly from Perner's 'The Big Picture of Autism' (about 4/5 the way down the page):

"In part because of physiological limitations, we often have great difficulty picking up on what comes effortlessly to many. Many children, for example, readily discover different teachers? styles and expectations even though those are never actually verbalized. In contrast, people on the spectrum may lack the neural wiring to effectively pick up on the cues help others adjust. To make matters worse, those of us challenged by physiological limitations must devote more attention to compensating for sensory problems. This less attention available for maturation and growth. Some estimate that individuals on the spectrum may have maturity level comparable to that of a person with two thirds of his or her chronological age. Thus, there are some things that some of us learn with age?but just more slowly than others. There are other areas where maturation doesn?t seem to help as much. Many of us just don?t learn to tell when someone is angry or sad, let alone what to do about this."

 

 

Hope that's interesting and helpful - sorry I get a bit carried away in researching - it's kind of my 'thing'.

[Bard]

I knew you were our best hope, only sorry I didn't put money on it!

Thank you.

[KarenT]

Mumble, you are an absolute babe!

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Karen

x

[lisa35]

Hi all, just logged on to say same, we have an 11 yr old, 12 in Sept and are struggling a lot at moment

He just seems to stand out sooooo much from his peer group , and trying so hard to fit in but getting it so wrong eg does things that we just know will get him teased mercilessly, really inappropraite for his age

Yet, he is starting to get spots, mature phsically,etc, yet is more like 8 yr old in behaviour

 

He had been in trouble at school for reacting to teasing, have had awful week, two discipline marks , one for spitting in a childs face when he was teasing him

Thing is we were doing so, so well, does anyone else feel so damn isolated??!! Thing is, how do u tell friends and family when theyve done thing s like spitting, and feel sickened by it, he s such a wonderful lad, he really is, but other parents must think hes a real reprobate!!

Guess just wanted to say you re not alone, and hijacked this thread a bit, needed to offload! Sorry

Lisa

 

 

son doesnt have formal dx, didnt "score" enough for dx of aspergers/asd, but deffo has traits, socail difficulties and sensory issues

 

 

Mumble, you are an absolute babe!

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Karen

x

[Frangipani]

Thanks Mumble,

 

Those references are excellent, you have gone to a lot of trouble. <'> <'>

 

I have mentioned this a few times in my posts and this was quoted by my sons Paediatrician, he often says that.

 

With my son when he gets stressed it really shows. Not only that without his meds the gap increases even more. I think when they are further down the Spectrum it increases.

 

My son has times when he as 19 but only moments. Even though he takes meds these Emotional radars still show. He wavers up and down. At times I actually say, did you take your meds this morning. As he will do something really random or act out really random to me at the emotional age of a two year old. My son would be Moderate Functioning ASD plus ADHD plus we are having him tested for Fragile X so he may not apply here at all.

 

Fxx

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

F xx

Edited May 27, 2007 by Frangipani

[Guest Lya of the Nox]

thank you mumble

x

[pearl]

I've said this about JP too. He's coming up to 18 but more like a 12 year old emotionally. I have to be careful what I say though as he hates to be thought immature. I major on how much more mature in some ways he is than typical teenagers, ie. he wouldnt dream of smoking or drinking, gets up early, etc. Also I've said to him that as he gets older the difference will be less obvious. By the time he's 30 he'll be 20 emotionally, etc.

[smiley]

Thank you Mumble

[oxgirl]

..............does anyone else feel so damn isolated??!!

 

Yes, very much so, nobody understands do they.

 

I'd say at the moment though, my lad is emotionally even younger than 2/3rds. He's 13 and more like a 6 or 7 year old in many ways, which is why he's always getting teased in his mainstream classes.

 

~ Mel ~

[curra]

M is almost 14 and he pretends to look mature by talking about things that he reads in books or about the news. But emotionally he's a little boy, I'd say about 6-7. He looks older than his age (16 or so) but he's afraid of his peers as if he was much younger and smaller, which makes him feel embarrassed. I am totally isolated because he doesn't want to be with anyone (NTs or AS).

 

 

Curra

[pearl]

When JP was at high school he ended up being teased by much younger kids than himself. Its like they have a radar for vulnerable children, he looks just like everyone else but his behaviour made him stand out.

[oxgirl]

M is almost 14 and he pretends to look mature by talking about things that he reads in books or about the news. But emotionally he's a little boy, I'd say about 6-7. He looks older than his age (16 or so) but he's afraid of his peers as if he was much younger and smaller, which makes him feel embarrassed. I am totally isolated because he doesn't want to be with anyone (NTs or AS).

Curra

 

My lad has an advantage almost in that, even though he's nearly 14, he actually looks like a very much younger child, more like an 8 year old, is very tiny and fragile and innocent looking. People in shops still do the, awww, isn't he sweet thing, so in some ways he can get away with behaving like a much younger child because it's almost expected of him and more readily accepted, if you see what I mean. I can't imagine him being as big as me and 10 stone and still behaving like a little boy, that must be so much harder in some ways.

 

~ Mel ~

[curra]

My lad has an advantage almost in that, even though he's nearly 14, he actually looks like a very much younger child, more like an 8 year old, is very tiny and fragile and innocent looking. People in shops still do the, awww, isn't he sweet thing, so in some ways he can get away with behaving like a much younger child because it's almost expected of him and more readily accepted, if you see what I mean. I can't imagine him being as big as me and 10 stone and still behaving like a little boy, that must be so much harder in some ways.

 

~ Mel ~

Mel, this is exactly the reason why M lacks self confidence and prefers to isolate himself. He says that his peers reject and tease him and it's probably due to the way he behaves and the type of jokes he makes. It is in a way an advantage for J to look younger. I hope the teenager years pass quickly, I'm sure that our AS kids need longer to mature but they finally manage to catch up a bit with their peers

 

Take care

 

Curra

[JsMum]

J is emotionally very young, cant always express his feelings, results in temper tantrums, but socially he is also very young so I would say that J is between 4-6yrs old.

 

I have also the thought that the average adult male, (40yrs) is really around 8yrs old!

 

I also believe that every adult has a child within themselves.

 

I would like to know that if a child is legally responsible for themselves at 10 years old can this be argued if the child has a disabilty that seriously reduces their suspected age ie in emotional, social, mental, learning age?

 

JsMum

[curra]

I would like to know that if a child is legally responsible for themselves at 10 years old can this be argued if the child has a disabilty that seriously reduces their suspected age ie in emotional, social, mental, learning age?

 

JsMum

 

I'd think yes, JsMum, it can be argued. My son was charged when he was 12 by another parent and I asked the police to take his disability into consideration, which they did and they did not continue with the charges.

I found useful information about ASD and the legal system in the NAS :

 

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=1064&a=6296

 

In case of a bigger offence (by child or adult) this part of the information is quite enlightening:

The accused person with ASD should be assessed for their capacity to understand the proceedings. The judge or jury can decide on a person's fitness to plead and can draw on as many psychiatric reports as necessary in order to do this. It is essential by this stage to have a report from a specialist in the field of ASD. Details of a small number of specialists able to act in court cases are available from the Helpline. A solicitor may need to convince the community legal service that paying for this assessment is worthwhile. Sometimes obtaining medical reports from the person's GP can make it easier to obtain a specialist medical report. In some cases a court may make a hospital order for 28 days for assessment. This will be usually be at the local psychiatric unit where there may not necessarily be a specialist in ASD.

 

It's not so straightforward as one would expect, as it depends on the reports and the judge's decision.

 

Curra

[smiley]

Yes, very much so, nobody understands do they.

 

I'd say at the moment though, my lad is emotionally even younger than 2/3rds. He's 13 and more like a 6 or 7 year old in many ways, which is why he's always getting teased in his mainstream classes.

 

~ Mel ~

 

<'> Yes - very, very isolated That's why this forum is such a help to me <'>

 

M was asessed by the EP/CAMHS/school/etc last year for his statement - he's eight now, but is emotionally at the stage of a three year old - add to that the fact that he's a tall lad (size ten clothes), and it makes it very difficult for other people to understand why he behaves as he does.....

 

Thankfully - at the moment, he doesn't really understand the teasing at school (have to say though, the school are great and will stamp on anything like that). He doesn't understand sarcasm so things will often get back to me and will upset me more than him iyswim.

 

<'>