dee23

So no more mad woman then? (Did you hear about the woman who was the only entrant in a WI cake making class? She only got 2nd prize - at least you won, even if you were the only applicant! )

She sounds the type who would spot someone with a white stick, for example, who had the misfortune to be standing near the kerb, and drag them across the road whilst glaring and tutting at everyone else around for "not helping"...... More seriously, i used to work with someone a bit like this woman sounds. We worked in a cafe (so there was the heat, small space, clash of stainless steel all day to contend with, as well as her ). Basically, this woman was (is) deeply, deeply insecure. She is still a friend, who i see maybe every couple of months - more than that is a bit too exhausting - and you are probably right in your assessment of this colleague of yours, about her clumsy attempts at kindness etc. I found my friend exhausting to work with - there was the often constant ranting you describe, and the utter suspicion of management - but she was, as i said, VERY insecure, and wanted to be liked. The bit you mentioned about the Suede songs is exactly the sort of thing my friend would do, and she would expect visible gratitude for it, or you would become the subject of a rant to someone else! I'm sorry i can't offer you any helpful advice. It sounds like your managemnet are aware of the impact she has on those around her, as were ours, but are probably too scared and ineffectual to act on it - like ours were. People like this are very hard to reason with, they have a huge, often negative, impact on people around them, even on the ones who do genuinely like them - as i did with my colleague/friend. She can be so kind, very funny, is utterly loyal, very clever etc - has loads of great qualities in other words. BUT, just cannot/will not see the impact on others, or ever take responsibility for it. The problem always lies in others reactions, not in her/their behaviour, as i suspect is the case with your colleague too. That does mean, of course, that any solution probably lies with you, and any changes you can make to your reactions, feelings etc, as Darkshine has suggested by recommending a book. I know that probably doesn't seem entirely fair as well, sadly All the best with it

Well show me a parent who isn't scared when one of them starts to leave the nest...... It's always good to be honest with yourself, in my opinion, hard as it can sometimes be. You say his older sister is a psychologist, so you have coped with a child going off to university and making a new life, with new friends and influences. I know it's different this time (AS....), but it's also the same, if you see what i mean. He's still him, not just his diagnosis. Do you think it's worth telling him what your motivations actually are? Only you will know if he will respond to that, but it might be worth a try. You have two things driving you here as i see it - fairness and fear. You want him to pull his weight around the place and within the family, that's simply fairness. If he learns to at least be fair to people around him (whether he actually wants to or not) he'll have a much smoother path through life, and may find many more doors open for him than otherwise. The fear you feel, which leads to you wanting to know where he is, be able to contact him etc, is perfectly normal parental angst. Again, if he understands whats underneath your requests, there might be a way to reach a mutual agreement about contact etc. Does he feel, perhaps, that because of his diagnosis he is treated like a child? Or treated differently to his sister? I imagine you would have felt the same fears for her, but perhaps you expressed them differently. (I know that's all quite chicken and egg, btw, i don't mean to make it sound black and white). Only you know whether you can all benefit from a conversation like that, and it doesn't have to be mawkish, just very matter of fact. Expectations being placed on you is just a fact of life, so he may as well learn that now, from his nearest and dearest, rather than years down the line. He's an adult, see if he can respond to an adult conversation.

I would be interested to know why you have such a strong need to be able to contact him at all times. Yes, i understand he has Aspergers, but he is also 21 years old. Are your worries around the company he keeps, where he goes etc, or do you feel his AS is such that he really is much more vulnerable when out than usual for a young man? You have heard from one poster with a son who had successfully left home at 21. I know everyone is different, but is it possible that you are underestimating him in this area. I think what i'm trying to say is are your worries realistic? Do you foresee many emergencies when you would need to contact him? Yes, i know emergencies can happen, but i feel you need to look at the amount of worry you are expending on his socialising. I would agree with the poster who said your expectations seem confusing - you want him to get a job, yet seem to be treating him as though he is a much younger adolescent, rather than a grown man. He will live up (or down) to whatever your expectations of him are. My daughter is 16 (NT). She has done GCSEs and has been on the euphemistically named study leave. She has had a job in the past, but it ended in a difficult way, through no fault of her own, and that has knocked her confidence. That has not stopped me expecting her to find another one, and in the meantime, contributing to the house in other ways. She has done her own clothes washing for a good year or two now, and we are slowly getting on top of her grasping the idea that i do not like to come in from work and find the kitchen a bombsite etc. I am very specific in what i want - she does not have to do dishes immediately as long as they are stacked neatly near the sink; a messy tea, sugar and cereal strewn worktop is an absolute no-no etc. It is not just a case of me expecting her to "tidy up", she knows specifically what is expected. Basically, you need houserules. And yes, you and your wife need to be singing from the same song sheet. You aren't his friend, you are his parent and that is a much, much better thing to be, imo. Short-term friction for long-term gain is perfectly normal, and worth it in the end. Make your expectations clear, reasonable and non-negotiable. I know the "strops" can be exhausting, but if you give in they will keep happening. And remember, even if he is "behind" in some ways for his age group, the desire to pull away from parents is healthy and necessary. The more you try and "reel him back in" (which is my real concern with your need for constant contact), the more he will struggle. As well as expectations and ground rules, he needs trust - in himself and his abilities. That will then give him something else to hopefully live up to.

I'd really like to go there. They were featured in a kids TV programme that was on when my daughter was younger, we always enjoyed watching it together. Seems like an interesting place, hope you're enjoying it

Ah well if you and sis have been before you may well know what you want to do already. I don't know a lot about the park tickets because we've never done a lot of that. Went to Universal the first time we went though (and did Disney the second time when DDs friend had her birthday while we were over there, and chose what to do for the day ). The Simpsons ride at Universal is AMAZING. It's not a coaster, it's one of those virtual reality ones, but it is fantastic, definately go on it! There's a few branches of Sweet Tomatoes in Orlando, which is a lovely place to eat out. All-you-can-eat stylee for 10-12 dollars per person, and LOTS of fresh salads, veg, soups, pasta etc. DD is a big veg eater, so we go there as often as we can afford (it's not a cheap ol' place is it, Florida?). I did not realise it was possible to get so painfully bloated on salad.... If you like swimming i would definately recommend going to one of the springs/swimming holes. Basically natural outdoor swimming places, with facilities. Alexander Springs and Juniper Springs "spring" to mind . I'm not a good swimmer, and don't particularly enjoy being in water, but i loved going to them. Floating around in warm water under a blue sky.... You should find them in any good guide book, or Google of course. We tend to go up in the Ocala area, north of the city. If you don't mind the drive, the west coast around St. Petersburg/Clearwater is lovely, both the beaches and the towns. Fort de Soto beach is particularly recommended, and again i am not a beach/sun lover, but i still liked it. (Is it obvious i would never choose Florida as a holiday destination without a reason.... I'm not quite as big a killjoy as i sometimes (often) sound ) On I-Drive there are a lot of crazy golf places, we went to Pirates Cove - everyone was dubious about it (it was my idea), but by the finish the two 16 year olds were hooting with laughter and wanted to go round again. I like tricking teens into being kids again for a while Ignore the time on this post btw, it's the jetlag, i'd NEVER be online at this hour otherwise! I'm gonna wake the dog up and go for a walk in a bit. My musical tastes have evolved all over the place, although i rarely go off stuff i liked previously, just add stuff. Last gig we went to was Warpaint, and OH and I will be making our annual pilgrimage to the Blyth Power Ashes (a particular passion of his - as long as Anal Beard are playing i'll be happy ), not much common ground there!. I have a big love of weird electronica stuff too (early Aphex, Autechre, Boards of Canada - lots of drones and beeps, me and OH used to collect it avidly when we were first together, and trying to outdo each other in weirdness i think!), and my trips to record shops often involve politely listening while the guy plays me "something weird", to which my usual reply is "sorry, not quite weird enough". I swear i see them swoon! Last CD bought was Neil Young, replacing the Rust Never Sleeps that i wore out in the car. If i think of anymore Floridian delights suitable for the English curmudgeon (me, obviously, not you ) i'll come back (and write another wildly overlong post i 'spect)

So you're off to Orlando then BD? I got back last night, my big bruv lives 50 miles or so outside the city. It's the third time me and the girlie have been to see him, she went to Universals Harry Potter Land this year with her friend - both 16 so i didn't have to go with them If you want any suggestions do ask, although we don't really spend a lot of time in Orlando. If you're going to hire a car and want some interesting places to go i might have some ideas though. Hopefully you'll both come back without sunburn It was rather spooky that you're also posting Alex Harvey vids. Me and the OH spent a very merry evening just before i went on hols watching all those on yootoob. My eldest sis is 10 years older than me, and i used to sneak into her room when she worked nights at the theatre, i must have been around 10, and put her headphones on and listen to SAHB, Led Zep, Deep Purple etc full blast I loved SAHB, didn't have much in common with my peer group in them days..... As to the poll - seeing as you are copying my musical tastes and holiday destination, are you actually me in a parallel universe?

Hello all, I posted for a while on here a few years ago about my partner, and thought i would drop in with an update..... After much toing and froing between the GP and various other professionals, my partner was eventually assessed (by a psychiatrist and clinical psychologist i think, although i may be wrong after this much time)about a year ago now, and given a diagnosis of AS and ADHD. The ADHD bit came as a surprise, and created another learning curve . The GP also suggested Dyspraxia as another issue, which A looked into - and found some relevant and helpful descriptions of traits and coping strategies, but he has no wish to "chase" any additional diagnoses! I found a lot of knowledge and kindness here during a difficult time, so wanted to drop back in with the news that he is doing great these days. He had a rough time during and just after the diagnosis period, it knocked him for six a bit and he had some big crises. Now, though, he is on a real even keel. He has been learning to deal with some of the big stressors in his life - mostly work related - in a different way, and is much calmer and accepting of himself. We spent some time apart, which helped us to change old patterns, and "reappreciate" each other, i suppose. We have also been learning and adopting much clearer ways to communicate with each other. For two people who always had a pretty open and honest relationship in the first place, it has been interesting just what a big change that conscious effort around communication has had.... I am not trying to paint an idyllic picture, there are the ups and downs of any relationship, but in fact most of the time life is just ordinary. Which, considering the past, is an absolutly wonderful thing to be able to say.... What's really nice, for me anyway, is a feeling that AS etc has just taken it's place in the overall scheme of things, it's just one more part of all the things that make up our lives together. I hope that makes sense? Anyway, i still drop in here from time to time, and occasionally feel a comment coming on, so thought it would be polite to say hello again in the proper way first. Lisa (Mind you, most of the comments i feel moved to make are "humourous" replies to Off Topic threads..... )

You say that you feel your friend is strong, and you are weak..... In my opinion strong people do not pick on and hurt other people, that is a sign of weakness to me, and sometimes truly weak people find other people that they think they can pick on in order to make themselves feel stronger, if you see what i mean. You have been through a lot in your life, with your family, your health and your diagnosis, yet here you are on the forum, still posting about work and people you care about and all excited about your party dress (which is lovely by the way). You are also always quick to welcome new members when they post, and offer your own experiences and feelings - as you did with me when i first posted. Those are not the actions of a weak person......they are the actions of a very caring and giving person, who is probably stronger than she realises. When my daughter was younger she used to spend weekends with my mum sometimes, and while she was away i would often go to her wardrobe and smell her clothes, as i missed her so much, and i was only without her for a couple of days! Peoples smells are powerful and wonderful reminders of them, i can completely understand how comforting you find your grans clothes. I too agree with matzoball - you deserve better than this. XX <'>

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There is something on that well-known book selling site called Social Skills for Teenagers and Adults with Aspergers Syndrome: A Practical Guide to Day-to-Day Life, could that be the one he means? I did Look Inside and it looks pretty good, from the first few pages.

No ,really, i did feel for you! But i was so excited i had seen such a good film, and was looking forward to comparing notes. My own misplaced enthusiasm made me laugh as much as your misfortune.............. honest! (I dont particularly laugh at people walking into lamposts btw, its pianos dropping out of the sky onto peoples heads that makes me hoot ) I do find the programming of arts type cinemas rather strange sometimes (ie making people wait til April), especially in these days of almost instant dvd releases. Although i would recommend at least one viewing on the big screen, rather than home tv - for the music if nothing else. I will shut. up. now........

SOOORRREEEE...... (But i couldn't help..... ) It will be worth the wait! Cuz it is BRILLIANT

As Meethoss says, spoil him, and enjoy spoiling him! We finally had to have Giggles put to sleep this time last year, she was about 14 years old. You are bound to be feeling down, and you will probably feel that way for quite some time, it is only natural. I think it is lovely that you made that promise to your cat though. It is so important to be prepared to take that responsibility when our pets are at the end of their lives, for me it is all part of being a good owner and giving them a good life. You will know when he is ready to go, just trust yourself, and him. Like Meethoss i have lost several cats too, and i remember all to vividly how much it hurts to say goodbye to them. I also have lots of happy memories of them all too, like i am sure you will have. Enjoy the rest of your time with him <'> <'>

Have you seen it yet????? Saw it yesterday and it is BRILLIANT!!!! Loved every minute of it, i think it's the best biopic i've ever seen. It's loud, colourful, hectic, chaotic...... as befits the man! Some pretty full-on language, as you guessed, and the gig scenes are just awesome; there are also some heartrending scenes of young Ians life, and of Baxters life. I would imagine it to be a pretty powerful film for a dad of a son to watch, iyswim. And Ray Winstone is Dury snr..... And as for Andy Serkis..... just stunning. Definately recommended. Can you tell i liked it??!! (Oh and there is an Ian Dury special, presented by Andy Serkis, on Radio 6 tonight at 10pm).

Hi Mumble I have been to my partners GP with him several times, without a problem. The first time i went i made a point of asking if it was ok for me to enter the room (partner had asked me at the last minute to go with him), but Gp was fine, and has been ever since. I am not sure if psychiatrists have different rules or standards, or if different individuals can set their own rules. The best thing to do would be to ask before the appointment, if you are able, whether it is ok for you to take someone with you. The psychiatrist also knows to expect another person then. It does sound like it would be really helpful for you to have someone there. Even being able to go through what was said in the appointment with someone afterwards can help to get it straighter in your mind, if you see what i mean. I have to say though, if there is any point where you might want or need this other person to speak for you, you have to be able to inform the doctor or psychiatrist yourself, it has to be clear that they are following your wishes. I had to take alex to A&E when he was in a serious crisis last year. He was in no fit state to speak for himself, but was also not very well able to inform the consultant that he was happy with me speaking for him. It was rather unpleasant for a while..... Is your GP supportive of you, and understanding of your communication difficulties? If so, would it be possible for you to get a letter from them briefly explaining those difficulties, and the methods - writing, recording etc - that you may need to use in order to benefit from attending the appointment? You would then be able to produce this, either when making an appointment or at the beginning of a consultation. You could try some of the mental health charities, such as Mind, or look up mental health advocacy in your area, to see if they are able to provide a supporter to go with you. Sorry i can't be of any more specific help! Good luck.

I am definately going to see it next week, even if i get stranded in the cinema My DD has just turned 15, but she is a slight little thing (unlike mum ), so we are thinking of getting one of those Citizencard thingys, so she can get into 15s without hassle. I have to admit to taking her to the odd 15 before she actually was so cant advise on the "setting a good example" area of life!

Horse riding is wonderful Tally, do give it a go if you can get the courage up! I havent ridden in a long time - its on my list of things i must do again, along with learning to swim properly (that scares me far more than horses!). RDA is a fantastic organisation - i think they are very respectful of peoples differences and abilities, and very safety conscious, in my experience. I have a sister who is quite severely learning disabled and she went riding with RDA for a long time when she was younger. Good luck with the social group too. Mumble, there are more places than you would think in London for horse riding. Vauxhall City Farm has horses, for example, and i am pretty sure they offer RDA lessons, check them out on the internet. They keep their horses in the park across the road from the farm, not far from the underground station. Its a strange sight, all these horse and then all the tower blocks etc just over the river...... City farms are good places to go in general for animal related activities. I used to work on one in Bristol, where i had groups of people with various support needs in to do farm and gardening work. I did a 1:1 session for about a year, just a couple of hours a week, with a young woman on the autistic spectrum. She used very little speech, and i ended up really enjoying our couple of hours of silent work alongside each other.... Anyway, wandering slightly off topic there.....

When i was pregnant with DD i had an enormous craving for eating ice. Once or twice i was found munching away in front of the defrosting freezer when i had used up all the ice cubes.......

snow

<'> <'> So sorry to hear that news sally. My thoughts will be with you and your family..... <'> <'>

Hi pjfudge, and welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear you are feeling fed up, this is a hard time of year to be feeling down. I think this forum is a really good place to learn about Aspergers, i joined here when me and my partner started to suspect he has Aspergers and we have learnt such a lot that has really helped us. I hope it turns out to be that way for you too, and you can start to find some of the things you are looking for in the new year. I am off outside now to look at the lovely full moon, best wishes to you. dee

I can see 1 and 3 happening. The first part of number 2 seems inevitable, but not sure about the second part, although it would be fantastic if somebody got the greens in a coalition! I'll have a think about this.....

Excellent and thought provoking posts on this subject as ever baddad. In common with lots of others it was a "list of traits", accidently stumbled across on the net, that set my partner, and myself, on the long road of looking into AS as a possible reason, cause, answer - call it what you will - for his behaviour and feelings etc. For myself, the value of a site such as this has been to provide a much more rounded view of growing up and living with AS than any list could ever provide, which has acted as a much needed counterpoint to the box-ticking tendency that lists tend to provoke. However, as bid very importantly pointed out, everyone has to start somewhere, and that is usually with a list. Either one that someone already has, or, as in our case, seeing a list and having the hairs on the back of your neck stand up at the accuracy of the majority of the list.... One of the biggest things to come out of this forum for alex, my partner, has been seeing accounts from parents of their children, particularly with regard to problems at school, and seeing so much of his own history reflected there. There has been a degree of sadness to this - he spent his early life, particularly adolescence, being pushed from pillar to post and labelled as naughty and/or a product of bad parenting (an "assessment" which has occasionally followed him into adult life) - and he cannot help but feel sometimes that his life may have been very different if someone had looked into the possibilities of a developmental disorder in his childhood. Recently he has been trying to approach his life in a different way. He went into a bit of a mental and emotional nosedive after first beginning to look at AS, partly because he felt unable to accept self-diagnosis as "good enough", and, basically, the thought that he perhaps might not be naughty after all was quite overwhelming! (the risk of harmful labelling does not just come with diagnosis.....) . Alongside lots of contact with his doctor i tried to encourage him to learn and use some "AS related" coping strategies, if you see what i mean. He was eventually able to do this, with the help of this forum and a couple of books, and even without professional help or support it is making a huge difference to his life, and ability to cope with certain things. All this is early steps on a long road, but it all came from a list..... However, baddads post is also spot on about the horribly complicated psychological motives that can come into play around things like this. There is also a lot of overlap between many of the traits that appear on these lists, and those that can result from poor or troubled parenting or traumatic experiences, further muddying the already murky waters of self diagnosis. Someone on this forum writes very knowledgeable and clear posts on that very issue, and her words have always given me lots to think about, another benefit of moving on from lists and box-ticking. Finally (honest ), NobbyNobbs makes the very important point that a lot of the traits that appear on these lists are not even relevant to actual diagnostic criteria. The NAS helpsheet about approaching the GP is good on this point, but most of the other lists i have seen just do not stress this enough. They also often fail to stress that there needs to be some disablement in the persons life, for the purposes of assessment and diagnosis, rather than just identification with a list. Chris54, are you thinking of Munchausens syndrome, rather than Munchausens syndrome by proxy, where people cause illness or injury to others (tragically often children in their care), in order to be seen to care for or "rescue" them, or gain attention themselves from the medical world. Sadly the human mind can be a dark place indeed......

I missed that this was an old thread, and was then really surprised to see my name come up! Further to the "AS = bad behaviour" debate..... My partner still doesn't have a diagnosis, but his GP is in the process of trying to arrange an out-of-area referral. He has however, still been teaching himself about AS, and is becoming a changed man. He had a lot of the horrible qualities that have been discussed in this post, in particular huge anger. He has not lost his temper in a long time now, but it seems to go deeper than just temper. I had been feeling for a couple of months that i wasn't going to see anger from him like i had in the past again (tempting fate here, but bear with me!), something very deep seemed to be changing in him. The other night my housemate was chatting to him about someone at her work, who had obviously met him in the past, and who had described him as "the angriest man in the world". This bothered my OH, and we chatted about it more after she had gone to bed. He was worried about what he might have done or said to make this person think that, but then he said "i don't think i have an anger management problem anymore". (He has spent years being fobbed off by various types of medical and mental health professionals, on the grounds that he "just" had an anger problem) He wasn't trying to excuse anything he has done in the past, wasn't being emotional, he just came out with it, very quietly.....just a statement. I would never have thought i would hear this from him. I don't know quite how to word the rest of this post...... I don't want to reduce AS to a set of "nice or nasty" qualities, i am very much of the opinion that people are just people, before any of their problems/conditions/issues etc, if you see what i mean. I know in my earlier post on this thread i said i felt that his anxiety had had a bigger impact on his life and behaviour than anything else, and i can see that even more now. It is what seems to be the quiet, almost gentle person underneath that anxiety that is surprising me. (I did point out to him the other evening that there have been times in his life when someone would only have had to see him walk across a room to have come to the conclusion he was the angriest man in the world ) He has stopped giving himself such a hard time, stopped feeling like a freak and a failure, and has allowed himself to think that actually he is doing pretty well in life. And as well as seeing some positive qualities in himself, he is learning to see his difficulties more realistically; instead of trying to go into any situation, regardless of how he can actually cope, and then having complete meltdown, he is trying to manage things and not get into horrendously stressful situations if he can help it. I think NobbyNobbs put it very well, about realising other people don't see things the same way. Alex is really putting that into practice, and also realising that other people shouldn't be expected to clear up after his meltdowns! Excuse my rambling, i'm really not sure where i'm trying to go with this . Just that, if he does have AS, it was not that that caused his behaviour, when he hurt people and caused havoc around himself. (and i have to stress his lack of diagnosis, he finds it difficult to tell people he even might have AS, he feels he would be misleading them without a disgnosis) His behaviour i think was largely fear and anxiety driven, and expressed with anger; maybe caused by lack of self knowledge, lack of coping skills, inability to be like "everyone else"....... Don't get me wrong, he's no saint, never will be , he's just a bloke. And even if he doesn't have AS, or if he ends up not pursuing a diagnosis, just doing all this learning about it, and identifying with it, has turned him around. He seems to be learning not to fight with life all the time, i think thats the best way i could put it.... I never thought i would say things like this about him.....