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This is quite shocking <'> It's a total disgrace that our children are being sacrificed for the sake of the so called normal children who are behaving like wild animals If you were happy to go to the paper then I would send a copy of it to your MP also one to the All Party Group for Autism. I think that the people who are running the Every Disabled Child Matters Campaign http://www.edcm.org.uk/Page.asp would also like to run with this story. This needs exposing nationally and we all need to be doing it. I truly hope that your son is OK and that his tests prove to be negative. Oracle

Don't know if it will make any difference but it wont if we do not support this campaign which is being supported by Contact a Family, Mencap, The Council for Disabled Children and Special Educational Consortium. http://www.edcm.org.uk/Page.asp Getting rights and justice for every disabled child The government says that Every Child Matters ? so why aren't disabled children getting their rights? Only 1 in 13 families get support from social services Disabled children are 13 times more likely to be excluded from school 8 out of 10 families with disabled children say that they are at breaking point -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Services for disabled children and their families are a national scandal" - Sir Al Aynsley-Green, Children's Commissioner for England. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We believe that disabled children and their families should have the right to the services and support they need to live ordinary lives. Every Disabled Child Matters is the campaign to make this happen. We want 10,000 supporters by December. Please sign up to our campaign by sending the form on the right

It's over now and hopefully you can have a bit of a break and rest. Hope your daughter is one the mend soon. <'> <'> <'> Oracle

Connective Education helps to connect what is happening inside your body - to what is happening on the outside if that makes any sense? Here is a link to the paper I posted here a while back it explains it so much better than me. http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...ctive+education We used this as much as we could or as much as David would allow at that point and all of the time with Matthew now. I agree with Nellie about the word no and also Kazzen. David hated that word so I tried to use it witout actually saying it. And also only say it if you mean it no matter what. Also agree with Bid even if what David was saying was in my opinion wrong I always accepted that he has a POV and acknowledged it - which is not always easy when you want to someone. I have on occasion gone head to head with David - which again is probably not a wise thing to do but it did bring results sometimes. I think the turning point for me was when a friend of mine rang me from inside her car having been locked out of her house by her son then aged 22, while she and her younger child drove around not knowing what do to. I decided that unless I did something in our house it could be me sitting in that car. Oracle

Again I am with jb most of the things they are asking/telling you to do may work and I say may with a much younger child who has ASD but not one who is going through puberty. Actually reading the list has made me wonder how many kids going through puberty they have actually dealt with more to the point have had success with. I can only give you it from the way it happened with us. We could feel an explosion brewing for days. When I say explosion I mean a massive blow up. We would have smaller explosions for days before the biggy and we felt as if David was chasing the biggy and that it was giving him a massive high. I have been told by Paul Shattock that it does give them a high because it's a chemical release and it's a bit like caging a tiger it will pace, prowl and then explode. So the hormones are the chemicals and at the moment they are fluctuating and so self awareness is pretty hard to teach to someone with an 'I'm always right' and 'I'm in control' attitude. The only thing you can do is to make it clear that they are not in control. I can't promise more outbursts because for sure there will be. But underlining that they are not boss is a must. This does not have to be done during an outburst - in fact I would suggest it's something that is talked about afterwards. David needed hours alone after an outburst and I had to get this right. Give him the space he needed before I even tried to approach him. Sometimes it would just make him explode again but slowly we would talk about a rage and where it came from. What it felt like. Un-picking his emotions little by little so that eventually he would know when it was starting what it felt like. I would keep underlining this is what I expect when you feel like you are going to explode. I must have underlined this for 3 years before we had any success. So it's not going to happen overnight. But eventually I would see David begin to get angry and he would remove himself from the situation. I also think self esteme plays a huge part in their feelings and many kids going through puberty feel useless. So along with making David understand that he was NOT boss. I also worked on making him understand that he was actually a brilliant person and who had a great deal to offer. That was when I realised that many of the explosions were born from his feelings of not being worth anything. He felt different and dealt with this through being angry and trying to take control. While I dsicussed how he felt I also discussed how I felt. Maybe you could try and explain to him how you feel when he locks you in. Expect him to say screw you I don't care but it may well plant a seed that he is not theonly one who 'feels'? Even if he can't explain his feelings. I am going to try and have a think about what we did. I can't promise you the answers but I can tell you like it was and how it slowly worked for us. Oracle [

I can't really add anything more to what Jb has said. No matter how much they 'know' it's not always enough to help us or our children. It got to the point where I was keeping appointments without David and they were coaching me. They were fine for me to do this and I would then work with David. The key really is self-awarness. However sadly their hormones often get in the way and it can be difficult to make progress. David was also a late dx unlike Matthew who got his aged 3. We have been working on self awareness with him from the very begining. I would like to think that this will make a difference when he begins puberty but I am not holding my breath. Oracle

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It would have to be flexible and nothing like school otherwise I can't see it working as an option for children with ASD. Once they have left the system anything which reminds them of school is a no no Oracle

<'> <'> It's not you really it's not. The teen years are the worst or at least they were for us with David. I remember sitting crying on his 16th Birthday wondering where he had gone The good news is he did return This is probably a really stupid question but are have the CAMHS team specifically trained to give advice on AS teenage behaviour? I would really want to know the answer to this question - don't just asume that they have. I am on my way out to Boys Brigade soon but I will pm you later about what we went through. Oracle

I think that it is something that they really should think about as an option for our children. I think that there is something like this in the Wakefield area or at least that is what I have heard. Surely it's better for our children to have an education that is as stress free as possible and I think that this could work for many. The only downside would be they would have to access this from home - but as a home edder that would certainly not bother me Oracle

Well I can't wait to read this one 'Overinvolved parents' Oracle

Probably many parents here and all over the UK BUT and OMG I promised myself I was going to drop this but as the criteria for dx stands at the moment if there was a speech delay then it can not be AS. I know that many people here doubt me but I have had this confirmed by most of the top experts in the UK so I am pretty confident that I am correct. Oracle

Hmm I think I understand more now Della because I know that they can view ASD quite differently in France so I also understand your cautious approach. Maybe the key here would be self awareness because I would not be happy being involved with people who view ASD as being a mental health issue. Maybe if he understood more about himself between the two of you you could help to sort things out. <'> Oracle

Have to agree with Karen I would not let this drop. It would not wash with me that they will 'now listen more to parents' He is a GP for goodness sake and he missed something so obvious that I - who am not even medically trained in any way - picked up on it straight away. Heads needs to role for this. It could have ended oh so differently if you had kept accepting what he was saying to you Oracle

The College probably want to do this so they can get him some support. Being just like everyone else means that you manage just like them to. I take it that you have known for sometime or felt that he has or may have AS? If you think he can make it through this then leave it. My son was diagnosed aged 13 and I told him straight away but then that is how I do things. He then told me that it was a relief that he knew what was wrong with him because he had known from the age of 3 that he was different. When my youngest was diagnosed aged 3 it was also something we never hid from him - why should he be ashamed. I personally am a firm believer that you can not help yourself until you understand yourself. However aged 15 how would he take it? I hope he turns a corner at College soon. Oracle

I don't think that there is much difference in the help received I think the words High Functioning give them their out clause in both cases Which is another thing I feel strongly about because what do they mean by High Functioning? It's all based around IQ and that has diddly squat to do with life skills. The reason that I will not let them change Matthew's dx is because until the criteria is officially changed, they can never step back in time and make him without the speech dealy that he had - does that make sense? It's the in my I am afraid. Oracle [

Paula grasping at straws here but it may be a straw then again you may already be aware of these people. http://www.fassit.co.uk/police_probe_mum.htm Oracle

I will not let this happen with Matthew if I can help it which may be me just being stubborn. But you can't ever have a dx of AS if there was a speech delay because you can't ever put the clock back and and wipe out the delay. I realise that I am being pedantic about this but this is because I think the way the dxing is being moved around is being done so to fit in with budgets rather than the child. Sounding like a broken record the way it stands in the UK re criteria for dx a speech delay would be HFA and no speech delay would be AS. Consultants however are moving the goal posts themselves but there has been no official change set by the ICD 10 WHO or DSM-IV diagnostic criteria (1994). This link probably explains it better than myself. http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html#DSM Oracle

Thanks Guys The finger prints guy came this morning and took prints let's hope they catch someone but I am not holding my breath She did not sleep but nor did I so I should have just insisted on staying. What a world we live in. Oracle

My Mum rang me at 10 past 9 tonight. She had disturbed someone breaking into her bungalow. They had managed to force her window and it was the rattle of the metal blinds - so pleased that we persuaded her to have metal blinds that disturbed her. We think who ever it was used her wheelie bin to try and get in through her kitchen window. My hubby was out at the time he had gone to collect my three sons who had all been to see an Ice Hockey match. I only live 9 doors from her and I went staright down. She was afraid that whoever it was may still be hiding in her back garden so I went the front way. Wish I had gone the back way as at 18 minutes past 9 another OAP in our Close was not as fortunate as my Mum. They got in - again the lady was in the Bungalow - but they stole her bag, purse and mobile phone It took the Police 2 and a half hours to arrive due to an urgent incident, by which time the whole Close was out because word has spread about the two break ins. We also found out that there have been 7 such break ins in the last 7 days in our Close I can't imagine that David will even attempt to go to sleep tonight and has already told my Mum that he will be watching all night. This is the second disaster in the last 8 days for my Mum and she has not even allowed me to stay with her tonight even though I wanted to. She said that she would only have to sleep on her own tomorrow of the next night so there was not point. The workmen move in tomorrow to begin the repairs after last Saturdays flood. Oracle

There is a difference in the way that children with AS communicate I have seen this with both sons. I had questions and answer sessions with my two as opposed to a real conversation when they were younger. I posted the criteria because if there has been a delay in speech then a dx of Aspergers can not be given although it is now being used. The fact is that the criteria for diagnosis has not changed - but Consultants are moving the goal posts themselves. Probably because AS is a cost effective dx My youngest had a speech delay at 3 he was none verbal now aged 9 he is as verbal as his 19 year old brother with AS. He was given a dx of HFA and that is correct. Also they can't then decided when a child is 9 that they then have AS. You can not put the clock back and wipe out a speech delay. As you can probably tell this is something I feel strongly about and I do so because I do believe that a dx of AS is now being handed out like a tube of smarties just to save service providers money and also dare I say to help parents feel better because they sell AS as being less autistic. Sorry I will shut up now. Oracle

The criteria for diagnosing AS or HFA was not created by me. As it stands at the moment this is what it says: taken from source ICD 10 (World Health Organisation 1992) Diagnostic Criteria A. A lack of any clinically significant delay in language or cognitive development. Diagnosis requires that single words should have developed by two years of age or earlier and that communicative phrases be used by three years of age or earlier. Self-help skills, adaptive behaviour and curiosity about the environment during the first three years should be at a level consistent with normal intellectual development. However, motor milestones may be somewhat delayed and motor clumsiness is usual (although not a necessary diagnostic feature). Isolated special skills, often related to abnormal preoccupations, are common, but are not required for diagnosis. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) Diagnostic Criteria There is no clinically significant general delay in language (eg: single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years). FIGURE 1: ICD-10 criteria for autism Delay in, or total lack of, development of spoken language that is not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through the use of gesture or mime as an alternative mode of communication (often preceded by a lack of communicative babbling) Oracle

The criteria for a dx of AS still remains the same and that is no speech delay. If there is a delay then the dx should be High Functioning Autsim. Oracle

Cross post means putting your posts onto other groups. I will cross post onto the Autsim UK Mailing List and the Aspergers UK Yahoo Group. Oracle