routines and rituals

[hedders]

Just a quick question:

 

Are routines and rituals displayed in as or asd or can it be found in both?

 

Part of the reason my dd wont be investigated for asd is bescause of social interaction, the school say they cant see any problems.

One of my dd rituals every day is that she must say hello and goodbye to all the children at school, if im in a hurry and she misses out saying this to someone she gets angry with me.

The school understanding of this is that she is very sociable.

I believe that in the school routine she has her own routine and rituals, eg choosing the same activities,playing characters copied from watching others or tv, (school say she has a good imagination)

she likes playing chase and hide and seek which is a routine but the school say she interacts well by playing these games. She refuses new games to play with peers at school and likes one-one play. if anyone tells her something she thinks it will happen

e.g teacher said she was going to be busy helper next day but when the day arrived teacher chose someone else this upset and confused my dd but as often happens she doesnt display her emotions in school and comes out down and irritable about it

when she was a toddler she played alongside peers .

How can i prove this to the school, so i can get my dd investigated, i cant go back to paed as the school wont change their minds and the gp wont referr my dd to child psy. as the paed is the expert even though she relies on the schools veiws not mine.

[Lucas]

The school are relying on myths and misinformation: the presence of something like social interaction doesn't preclude Autism/Aspergers. You proberly know more than them but they won't accept that. In both Asperger's and Kanner's original groups, neither of them ever said there was a lack of anything: they said that the subjects showed 'atypical' forms of them such as communication.

 

In school it's unfortunately other children that notice differences and it takes years before staff start seeing each child individually.

[Brook]

Hi Hedders,

 

I had to laugh about the saying goodbye! not because I think it's funny but I could soooo relate

that to my son, he HAS to say goodbye to everyone at the end of school, yesterday we got to

the car which is a fair distance from the school and he realised he hadn't said goodbye to his

teacher, he started to scream to go back, but I said we had to hurry, so he yelled goodbye to

her at the top of his voice even though obviously she couldn't hear him, but he HAD to do it.

I'm sure my sons school also think he is very polite and sociable but his is DEFINITELY part of

his routine of coming out of school, you can see his blind panic of saying goodbye to everyone

that walks passed.

 

My son could also be seen to be sociable when playing, but if you look at it a bit deeper he only

actually plays the games that HE wants to play, if a game is changed by another child he doesn't

want to know, he uses kids more like 'props' to act out scenes from dr who etc.. and he doesn't

care 'which' kid plays as long as he can use them, but at the end of the day he is playing albeit

on his own terms.

 

I dont know who you could get to help you, but it's a case of looking deeper than what you

see superficially, then you can see the distinct difference.

 

Brook

 

sorry dont know why I have gaps in my sentences

Edited September 26, 2006 by Brook

[mum22boys]

Hi Hedders,

 

I feel for you because I know you are having a hard time at the moment getting the school to believe you. I think I replied to another of your posts and suggested you contact the school nurse. Do it if you haven't as ours has the ability to get a childs case heard at a multidisiplinary team.

I agree with what Lucas said, you probably know more about AS than the school. And he's right it could be years before they notice anything.

Have you contacted the NAS? Not only will they listen to your concerns but they will send you info for the school. Again if you haven't make sure you contact them. Hand in the literature to the school, give your DD teacher a copy and also the Head. I also photocopied the page out of Tony Attwoods book about the child being a Jekill and Hyde character after M's school couldn't understand why I was getting all the problems out of school.

Routines and rituals seem to be part of AS, well they are with mine.

As for social interaction M's school would swear he is ok. After I kept going in and telling them over and over what he is like they looked closer at how he played. He sticks to the same couple of children. He mixes only if he takes a small toy to the playground (his conversation tool) or if he plays chase. I believe as time goes on it will become harder for him to be accepted when the other kids see and understand how he plays. He obviously lacks imagination. His teacher was always telling me he plays in the role play area, something I refused to believe. Eventually it was discovered he goes in the role play area and copies the actions of the other kids, he doesn't role play.

I suspect they are not looking at your DD closely enough. Kids on the spectrum don't always want to be left alone. M loves company on his terms and wants to play most of the time but just has trouble approaching the other kids.

If I was in your position I would put in writing to the school what you believe. I would also make sure they saw exactly what you are talking about. If your dd gets upset because she hasn't carried out her routine then I would take her into the school screaming and explain the reason she is angry.

I know how frustrating this all is, i've been there and am still fighting the school battle.

Also what you said about her being told she will be the helper and then not being needed, we had exactly the same situation last term and M went mad.

You know your daughter better than anyone. Keep fighting the school. If you are having trouble getting through to them contact parent partnership.

 

Sorry i've rambled on - hope some of it makes sense and helps!

 

mum22boys

[board]

hello when no one belived about my dd6 i phoned the hv she came out and filled all the froums in for me she said i thought there was something wrong but i thought she would out grow it it only took a couple of weeks to see someone she was dx aspergers on the 12 april they said she ticked all the boxs so eveyone missed it but i know there was something wrong so dont give up a mother knows her child all the best jill

[hedders]

Are there any differences between asperger and asd?

[Lucas]

Only my historical coincidence and endless arguements over semantics. It is generally believed that those with an Aspergers diagnosis are very verbal and high functioning, but it can be contradicted by looking at adult outcomes of either diagnosis. Verbal and high functioning children can get an AS diagnosis whilst other children can get the classic Autism diagnosis only for the relative positions to be reversed in adulthood because the difficulties faced by the recognisably high functioning Aspies are not taken seriously because they outwardly appear so able.

 

Right now I believe Lorna Wing who first coined the term Asperger's Syndrome now regrets doing so and states that it's only real use is in clinical study(such as how outcomes can vary depending on which diagnosis is given) and not in distinguishing real differences between different Autistic children.

[jb1964]

Only my historical coincidence and endless arguements over semantics. It is generally believed that those with an Aspergers diagnosis are very verbal and high functioning, but it can be contradicted by looking at adult outcomes of either diagnosis. Verbal and high functioning children can get an AS diagnosis whilst other children can get the classic Autism diagnosis only for the relative positions to be reversed in adulthood because the difficulties faced by the recognisably high functioning Aspies are not taken seriously because they outwardly appear so able.

 

Right now I believe Lorna Wing who first coined the term Asperger's Syndrome now regrets doing so and states that it's only real use is in clinical study(such as how outcomes can vary depending on which diagnosis is given) and not in distinguishing real differences between different Autistic children.

 

I totally agree. My daughter was diagnosed ASD with Aspergers best fitting her difficulties. When we discussed certain problems she had the consultant said that they were in fact more in line with classic autism - but that for professionals (i.e. school/doctors) etc - aspergers is a 'better' (for want of a better word) fit (if that makes sense), because she is extremely bright and verbal etc - although in other senses i.e. communication and understanding she struggles terribly.

 

Take care,

Jb

[Bullet]

Because I'm very verbal (although there are situations where I find it impossible to talk) and because I'm articulate it's hard explaining to people exactly how difficult I do find a lot of things and how routine driven I am.

With regards to interaction, Tom can be very interactive with adults and will laugh with one child at nursery, but there is a definite difference between him and children who don't have ASD. Tom uses people as props, how can he manipulate their hands, get them to swing him about. He won't play with cars with someone else for example, he won't want me to see when he's finished building a tower. My younger son is learning the names of things now and he looks at me for the words to things, has that level of social interaction that Tom doesn't.

[rainbow queen]

i can say now hedders please dont let the school try telling you different agaisnt your gut feelings-my sons school was exactly the same.

ive since removed him from it.

my son when he was 2 and a half to 3 -had rituals of having to say the colour of every door we passed in the street to get to nursery-if i didnt let him or tryed to hurry him-he would do complete melt down and sit down and refiuse to move one way or the other-the screaming was terrible-i endured the screaming for years thinking it was normal behaviour...............

 

he also had obsession with adverts and logos and brand names and shop names -

he would name every car make in the street and he remembered them all to,then there was the standing on grids-along every house in the street

then the green man button issuse came along................the list is endless........he still dose it now but its not as intense,but its still bad.

 

there was times i had to drag him along the street-or carry him for ages -whilst he basicly kicked me and head butted me...............all this was going on outside of school /nursery,amongst all the other stuff.............my son is passive at school and complies-but i pay for it when he walks through the school gates..............

[hedders]

thanks for all your comments, i have another question to ask

what is meant by repetetive behaviour patterns?

 

a friend who helps support a young adult with asd told me that every morning he has to have a outburst when waiting to go out, but one day the staff were ready before him and this confused him , as he had no reason for an outburst and got anxious, they think that his outburts every morning are rituals and not challenging behaviour,

 

my dd was acting strange on the way home from school after trying not to laugh i asked why she was talking and acting differently in which she replied this is how lily talks (A FRIEND IN CLASS) she was like a moody teenager.

 

The educational psychologist phoned me today as i sent a long letter to her, she advised me to make a complaint to the governors about head teacher, she is going to speak to the senco about my concerns in a few weeks, i explained that my dd has routines and rituals and if the teacher looks a bit deeper they will detect it, talked alot about social interaction also she will observe her in class and ask the teacher to monitor her. Explained that she has alot of reading and writing diffculties which i feel need to be addressed, and told her about her younger sister who is displaying the same diffculties and once she has her paed app in oct if the outcome confirms my suspisions i wont be a happy mummy about my dd school.

I been lucky that i have been writing to the ed psy. now for 6 months sending her evidence of her school work which eventually will help my case, she was very suprised that when the head teacher recieved a copy of her assessment from paed, that she dismissed it saying i was lying and should go to parent craft sessions.

[Brook]

Hi Hedders,

 

this following link may help you:

 

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=1071&a=7103

 

Brook

[hedders]

thanks for the web page, should anwser all my questions.