Hmmmmm

[lancelot]

Our DS (10, Asperger's) had to accompany us to a carol concert at the weekend at the music/drama group that his younger brother and sister go to. It was very crowded in the entrance way -- people cramming through the doors, warming up trumpets etc -- so I wasn't surprised when he started moaning and ran off to rock in a corner, wailing, 'I can't stand it, can I go home, can I go home?' Kicked myself for even trying to bring him!

 

In some desperation, hoping we might at least make it to 5-yr-old's performance of Jingle Bells on bits of drainpipe , I offered him 50p for every 10 minutes he managed in the hall without making a noise.

 

I'm �3 poorer! He stared at his stopwatch throughout, and didn't even wince when the brass band tried to outcompete the dodgy descants to the carols.

 

Right, is he:

--extremely insensitive to noise when he has something to look at?

or

--perfectly capable of behaving when he chooses?

 

C's noises and moaning are a constant problem at school -- maybe equally blatant bribery is the answer there as well!

[Elanor]

Of course it's impossible to be sure, but I'd say that your 'motivation' worked to override his feelings of distress for this short period. However, my guess is that he still found it very difficult, and still had to cope with the stress of the event afterwards - was he difficult after the event?

 

Whether you'd want (or could afford) to make a habit of this technique is another question!

 

Elanor

[cmuir]

Hi

 

Really difficult to say. Fact is you gave your son a distraction (or incentive!) and it worked. There's been occasions when I've done the same as you, in order to get by (ie on occasions when I've had to take him into a shop and allowed him to choose a toy - found this gives him something to focus on and ultimately makes whole experience less traumatic for all concerned!). It's certainly not unusual for kids to have sensory issues ie dislike of noises, crowds, etc. My son has.

 

Caroline.

[mossgrove]

Our eldest (9, Aspergers) will play up simply because he doesn't want to be somewhere and he thinks we will take him home if he shouts, kicks and screams. This is entirely rational and logical to him as he lacks the empathic understanding to realise the distress his behaviour is causing. I think all these issues are worse for the child when they have no understanding why they are there. Once he had a clear reason (I.e. I will get money) he coped with it as he could see a reason for being there. It's a bit like giving your child something to do (e.g. fetching items from a list) while they are in the supermarket, they have a reason for being there so the behaviour improves.

 

 

Simon

[badonkadonk]

I'd say it is rather something to do with it being two seperate occassions.

 

I'm 23 and Aspergers. Some days I can sit at my computer and the noise of the fan going doesn't even register with me. Other days I cannot sit at my computer for more than a few minutes because the noise of the fan is driving me insane. It's the same noise, the only thing that is different is how I am feeling that day. I don't know what triggers it or why some days are worse than others but I definately know when I'm having an 'ears' day or an 'eyes' day or 'skin' day. On these days I know my ears, eyes, skin, nose etc will seem to be more hyper-sensitive than normal or I will be less able to ignore the things that stiumlate my senses. That's just how it goes I'm afraid. Some days people will feel in a bad mood and sometimes they wont, simple.

 

To understand it further you have to not focus on his actions but more focus on the atmosphere around him, the situation itself and his actions/feelings before you got to the concerts. It could be on the first day that he was having a bad day altogether, he might have been feeling more stressed than usual before going to the concert or feeling apprehensive about going. The fact that there were people jostling to get through the door and the sound of different trumpets being 'warmed up' could be the factor that led to the meltdown. It wasn't one cohesive sound, even the music didn't go together because I bet it was lots of different musicians playing random notes to get ready for the actual performance.

 

The second instance he might have been having a better day altogether, he might have been in a better mood before he went to the performance and the fact that all the musicians were playing together (or trying to) would have made the effect on his ears much less bothersome. The fact that you offered him money to sit quietly would probably have not been the driving force behind his seemingly ok behaviour, rather he probably became so obsessed with counting down the periods of ten minutes that his focus shifted from the music onto the watch thus the effect the music had on his ears would have been less because he would be blocking everything out trying to concentrate on reaching the end of the 10 minute blocks. Granted he probably wanted to get to the end of the 10 minute blocks to rack up the 50ps but without looking at his watch and counting down the time I doubt he would have managed it. Besides, it would seem that �3 is a small price to pay for you to be able to enjoy your other child's performance.

 

I think it might be worth trying to remember that he's just a kid with an awful lot going on his brain and a lot more to contend with when out and about in public than what 'most' other people have to deal with. From the way you describe his behaviour it seems that you view it as negative/bad behaviour ('moaning' and 'wailing'). This is a real sticking point when it comes to understanding AS because it is not bad behaviour for the hell of it, it's not attention seeking or play acting or just trying, purposefully, to be a pain. It is his way of telling you that he cannot cope in the situation and as he is 10 years old actually being able to verbally say to you "I can't stand it, can I go home?" is actually quite a big achievement for your son. Other AS kids at that age would probably not be able to tell you what was making them feel upset/agitated because they wouldn't yet have the understanding of what triggers these feelings.

 

You have to try and see past the, what looks like, bad behaviour because what you see as 'moaning' and 'wailing' is him saying "look mum, this is the only way I can get what I'm feeling out so you can see what is upsetting me, please help". When a baby cries we look for a reason, we change their nappy, feed them, rock them...essentially we look for a source that is causing them to cry. When your son acts out or feels anxious/aggrevated you have to do the same thing. Look for the cause instead of focussing on the end result which is his behaviour/emotions. School would be wise to adopt the same approach and to try and further their understanding of ASDs at the same time.

 

Some times the kid is going to be a pain and act up because all children do, it's part of growing up. The difference is, is that with ASD kids often what looks like bad behaviour 99% of the time is just a cry for help or way of getting all the negativity that they are feeling (because they are distressed and upset by something) out of their systems as they rightly have to do because they would probably go nuts if they didn't get it out. The key to reducing meltdowns is working together, with your son, to understand what triggers the meltdown and finding other ways to get the negativity out such as being able to tell you as soon as he starts to feel upset so you can find ways to reduce the stress so that it doesn't have to end up him crying in a corner because he feels so bad. I can't imagine it would ever be something he would choose to experience, I know I don't choose to feel upset and overwhelmed when I get like it.

 

I know it might seem like I'm having a go and I'm really not, I'm trying to help, I'm trying to let you know what your kid is probably going through and experiencing because he probably couldn't get it all out just yet how he feels or is affected, he probably doesn't even know the full extent of what bothers him. These are things you can help him learn through time. So try to look beyond the bad behaviour and try not to tell him off when he has a meltdown (teachers should not be telling him off either because he really cannot help it) and try instead to focus your energy that you might spend worrying about his behaviour onto working with him to understand himself and his triggers a bit more.

 

Emily

xxx

[lancelot]

Hi --

I really appreciate all the answers, and thanks especially to Badonkadonk for taking the time to write in such detail.

 

The reason I asked is that I and the school have put huge amounts of effort into trying to understand his behaviour and make situations easier for him, on the assumption that he can't help his reactions when in such a stressful environment, and needs our help and sympathy -- so I was startled and maybe just a little peeved to find that cash worked better than psychology!

 

He's a very bright and articulate child, who rather likes to be one up on the adults around him, and after years of expecting too much of him, I wonder if I've gone to the other extreme and now let him get away with too much. hence the hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

Agreed, though, that �3 for a happy younger sister is good value. I wonder if it'll work for the nativity play as well?

 

Thx all,

L xx

[badonkadonk]

Hi Lancelot,

 

Thanks for the, errm, thanks?!

 

I've just re-read my post and thought maybe it came across as me thinking that you haven't done anything to understand your son, or the school? That wasn't my intent while writing the post I assure you, even though when looking at it on the whole even I thought 'oh, that's not how I intended that to sound'.

 

I know how much hard work all you mums put in, but I also know how much people need to understand in order to help their kids to understand if that makes sense? I think on my mission to push understanding as the key term when looking for help raising a child with AS I perhaps at times get a bit gung-ho about it (is that the right term?) because of the fact that I went 22 years not knowing I had AS and so had no understanding or willingness to even stop and try to understand by both my parents and the school. I was just a naughty kid through and through. The fact that I knew I wasn't doing it on purpose but when asked what was bothering me I could only manage "Nothing." led to me spending my latter teenage years thinking I was mentally insane. I don't ever want that to happen to any other child, let alone any other child with AS. So when I urge you to read more, try to understand more even when you think you have tried every route and aspect possible it's for a very good reason because I know what people not understanding means. My dad still thinks half the times that I get upset I'm being stupid or over-reacting and this is because he is so set in seeing my behaviour as bad and so unwilling to accept it as anything else that I will never be anything but a naughty person to him. It's not the biggest injustice in the world by any means, but it's still enough for me to dread the evenings most nights in case I get upset and he's around. It's not something I want anyone else to experience, ever.

 

So when I say try to understand and get the school to learn more about ASDs I mean just keep going, build on what you've got already but don't ever think it's enough because just because you know and understand something and explain it to your son doesn't mean he's processing and dealing with it all at the same rate. You've got a good couple of years of maturity and life experience on him. (This is not me calling you old either, I hope you know what I mean )

 

Anyway I know you didn't say that's even how you read my post but I re-read it and saw how some people might see it so I thought I would try and clear up my intent before it caused any trouble!

 

Just one last thing though, I just want to try and help you to understand the whole incentive thing. If I asked you to sit in a bath full of scorpions whilst listening to your least favourite music and experiencing your least favourite smell and generally just asking you to put yourself in a situation that you know will make you feel uncomfortable and you know will upset you.....an incentive might help you to last an hour as well! For you it's just a concert watching your daughter perform, for your son it's HELL ON EARTH. And Simon this applies to your kid as well, and all AS kids. We don't understand why ANYONE, not just us, ANYONE would want to be in public situations/social situations because it is that unpleasant and full of things that cause us meltdowns. The fact that we can't put these feelings aside because someone else needs to be in that situation and we have no choice, yes granted, is because we can lack empathy in those situations but you have to remember you're not just asking us to walk around the supermarket for half an hour, you're asking us to battle a war with our senses with half an hour, we're not going to approach it running and smiling

This empathy thing can be learned in time, I go shopping with my nan when she wants to go because she doesn't like going on her own. It's horrible and I hate doing it and if I was 10 I would probably have a big tantrum and act a right grump the whole time. But I'm 23 now and I know how much it helps my nan for me to be there so I grin and bear it and try to manage my meltdowns myself but I get home and I'm a mess for a couple of hours afterwards because of keeping it all in. Perhaps in time your children might learn these skills as well.

 

Emily

xxx

[butterfingersbimbo]

yeah i think el would have sat through it for three quid too.....i agree with the tohers, he probably hated every minute of it but the incentive got him through it.

[oxgirl]

Could it be that it was not so much the promise of money he needed but a distraction, and that he was concentrating so hard on looking at his watch that he was able to zone himself out from it?

 

When my lad used to sit in assemblies he would rock and moan to himself. It was agreed that he could start to bring in a tiny toy to hold in his hand and this would distract him from the torture of having to sit still and try and listen to what was going on. He'd sit there oblivious to all that was going on around him and he was quiet and relatively happy, so it worked well. It wasn't that he was playing up before, just that he was simply unable to sit still and apply himself to what was going on, he needed to have something to distract himself from the noise and the boredom of it.

 

Whatever works, that's what I say! <'>

 

~ Mel ~

Edited December 14, 2006 by oxgirl

[Bullet]

You've reminded me of something.

I used to be a very very slow eater. To the point I often got told off for it. I was attention seeking, I was being awkward. I wasn't and I have no idea why I was, I just was. I'm still a slow eater but now it's my choice, bwahahah .

Anyway, one day my dad said to me and my sisters that whoever finished first could have a chocolate bar. Have a guess who finished first? Yes, that's right, I did. And yet I can categorically state was that at no point before or after did I deliberately eat slowly to draw attention to myself. So, I can think of two possible explanations. One, I ate at my normal speed and my two sisters deliberately ate more slowly to sort of psychologically suggest that I could eat fast when I chose. This option seems highly unlikely, considering they would have wanted the sweets just as much and they were also children. The other, more likely explanation, is that having the chocolate bar to focus on meant I wasn't thinking about my meal so ate more quickly because of that.

Edited December 14, 2006 by Bullet

[KarenT]

You've reminded me of something.

I used to be a very very slow eater. To the point I often got told off for it. I was attention seeking, I was being awkward. I wasn't and I have no idea why I was, I just was. I'm still a slow eater but now it's my choice, bwahahah .

Reminds me of yesterday tea time. Gave J a pile of sweetcorn which he steadfastly refused to eat, until I told him that it was famous for making the most noxious farts imaginable. It was gone in seconds.

 

Karen

x

[lancelot]

Thanks all,

I think I was seeing i in rather black and white terms (if he can cope when paid, then he can cope!) but I think I have a clearer idea of it now (and yes, I've paid up, and he's making hopeful suggestions about whether I think he can go to the nativity tomorrow as well!)

[UltraMum]

Emily - thank you so much for the insight that you give us into our children