Harrassment from neighbours?

[curra]

Hi,

Haven't posted much lately but I'm always reading messages when my DS gives me a little break! I wonder if anyone can give me advice with a problem with my neighbours who live in the flat right under mine and have complained (officially to the landlord) about my "noise". The "noise" is according to them "jumping" and "banging" on the floor, which is absolutely not true. I wish my son could jump once in a while, he's sitting all day long. What the neighbours want according to them, is that I isolate the floor areas where I have no carpet. My son's bedroom, the toilet and the kitchen have washable flooring for hygienic reasons. He cant find the toilet sometimes, he is very clumsy and spills drinks on the kitchen and he (sometimes) hes bedwetting reaches the floor. The landlord ( a housing association) has sent me a letter saying they want to refer the problem to a mediation service or else take action under the Trust's anti social behaviour policy (which could mean eviction). I don't want to sit with the neighbours to discuss my son's medical condition. and I am not going to lay carpets where it's not hygienic, but I don't see why I have to give explanations to my neighbours! They started all of a sudden to complain when a new person came to live with them, which is a bit strange as my son and I haven't changed our way of living since then. Could this be harassment? They know that M has asperger's syndrome and they look at him in a very funny, sort of inquisitive and curious way, when they see him on the way to school. I am quite distressed by all this because we live as quietly as possible, without parties, music , vistits etc (wish I had all that) and I can't understand why these people are complaining. We have to live here and he's a 13 year old boy, for goodness' sake! He hardly moves, what more can I do???

 

Curra

[Paula]

You say you dont want to discuss youre son with the neighbours but you know maybe thats the answer..........

 

 

I say this coz years ago when my son was younger hes 13 now hed scream the whole house down,yelling,kicking,smashing stuff up all hell would be breaking loose with me holloring at times and crying.God knows what the neighbours thought.i was a bit of an outcast everybody stareing thinking heck what goes on in that house she must be beating him senceless for him to scream like that.sometimes all that i was doing was washing his haire.............

 

Anyway one day i was getting odd looks and i just told all told them hed got problems explained that sometimes hed scream for england but i wasnt hurting him.....suddenly it all fell into place for them and i got no more odd looks coz folks understood what was going on.

 

 

Also why dont you go into the downstairs flat you might find that actually even small noises are carrying badly and it is a bigger problem than you might think it is.

I livew in a council house and we can hear the toilet flush in our neighbours house,also when there son plays music it booms round our house realy loud yet when i go into there house its only on low its how the noise is travelling.They came into our house and realised i wasnt makeing it up and now he turns the bass down.

 

Its easy to get intrenched in a its you no its you type thing talking can solve it.

 

Good luck

[curra]

Thanks Paula,

I agree with all what you say, it's very reasonable. I also once lived under very noisy neighbours whose children ran up and down the flat all day and Mum screaming at them. It was hell. What I don't want to do is to talk about my son's toiletting difficulties with them and why I have no carpet in his bedroom and the loo because it's his private information and it could backfire in the neighbourhood once everyone knows about it. I don't think somehow that these people are the kind and understanding type. M has suffered a lot of teasing and bullying from other kids in the area. The neighbours already know that M has aspergers because I wrote a long letter to them explaining most of his difficulties the first time they complained months ago, and sadly it seems it made things worse because now they turn their heads to look at M when he passes. I think that their complaints are VERY exaggerated as we don't do any noise at all, unless living is considered noise. Maybe I'm just imagining that they would like to see the back of us because of his ASD but that's the way it looks like. Mediation could be a good neighbourly way to sort it out if I didn't have to give too many explanations.

Curra

[Fletts]

Hi Curra,

 

If you really aren't making a noise, there is absolutely no way you can be evicted. If noise, such as dropping things is travelling because of no carpeting, ask your G.P. if he could write a letter explaining your sons condition and why carpeting wouldn't be appropriate and give it to the your housing officer. You are in a strong position because your son has a disability. Although I understand you don't want to discuss it with the neighbours (don't think I'd really want to either), make sure the council know about this. There are laws to protect disabled people and the council have to accept that modifications are necessary at home as they are in the workplace. To not allow "reasonable" adjustments is discriminatry. Also, these are the noises of normal living. I don't think your neighbours have any chance of evicting you.

 

The organisation, Shelter (if you can get through on their helplines) have really good housing advisors that could help put your mind at rest about your rights on this.

[aawmum]

I agree, chatting to them may give them some understanding. I hope you resolve it all soon. good luck.

[Clare63]

Curra, I am so sorry you have to deal with this it must be such a worry.

<'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'>

Clare x

[Clare63]

Curra, I am so sorry you have to deal with this it must be such a worry.

<'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'>

Clare x

[oxgirl]

So sorry Curra that you're going through this, it makes for such a horrible atmosphere when you feel like you can't relax in your own home and you're afraid to move for fear of making a noise. <'>

 

It sounds like mediation could be a good way to go, though, maybe worth a try to get them off your back. They can't expect dead silence in flats though, it's just not possible, so if they're being unreasonable then mediation might help them to see that.

 

Take care. <'> <'> <'>

 

~ Mel ~

[curra]

Fletts,

Thanks for the link to Shelter, it's very good! I may have to use it someday (I hope not) so I'll keep it in my "favourites". It's a relief to know that I cannot be evicted so easily. I was really terrified when I got the letter this morning. I'll speak to the housing officer about this and explain to HER my son's problems. I prefer to keep neighbours at arms length though I try always to be friendly with everyone. This neighbour used to be very nice and we chatted a lot, I even babysitted for her son once, but once her partner came to live with her they began to complain. I don't know why really I wish I could move to a house where there's nobody living under us!

 

Curra

[curra]

Thanks Aawmum and Clare for your support ! <'> <'>

 

Curra

[oxgirl]

Fletts,

Thanks for the link to Shelter, it's very good! I may have to use it someday (I hope not) so I'll keep it in my "favourites". It's a relief to know that I cannot be evicted so easily. I was really terrified when I got the letter this morning. I'll speak to the housing officer about this and explain to HER my son's problems. I prefer to keep neighbours at arms length though I try always to be friendly with everyone. This neighbour used to be very nice and we chatted a lot, I even babysitted for her son once, but once her partner came to live with her they began to complain. I don't know why really I wish I could move to a house where there's nobody living under us!

 

Curra

 

 

Curra, is there any way you could get together with the woman below you for a friendly chat? If you used to be friendly with her, then maybe she would be open to talking reasonably with you over a cup of coffee. It could be that she doesn't have a problem with the 'noise' and that it's really her partner who isn't happy and if you got back on friendly terms with her, maybe she could talk to her partner about it as well and it could become a bit more amicable.

 

It's horrid, though, isn't it. I used to be on friendly terms with the woman opposite but her dogs were driving me nuts. One day I knocked on her door and asked in a very friendly way if there was anything she could do to stop her dogs barking and she ended up slamming the door in my face!! Last time I saw her she gave me a wicked glare, but I really have no time for her anger. It's funny how some people react though.

 

Sending some of these for you <'> <'> <'>

 

~ Mel ~

[curra]

So sorry Curra that you're going through this, it makes for such a horrible atmosphere when you feel like you can't relax in your own home and you're afraid to move for fear of making a noise. <'>

 

It sounds like mediation could be a good way to go, though, maybe worth a try to get them off your back. They can't expect dead silence in flats though, it's just not possible, so if they're being unreasonable then mediation might help them to see that.

 

Take care. <'> <'> <'>

 

~ Mel ~

 

 

Thanks Mel,

After the first time they complained I bought slippers and M and I wear them in the flat all the time so that we don't disturb our neighbours. But they kept complaining and even wrote a note saying that they question that my slippers are soft because my footsteps don't sound soft!! They also wrote that my "banging", "crashing" and "knocking" is inconsiderate. The real funny thing is that nobody is making those noises here. It's a mystery.. I'd go through mediation but without discussing my son's difficulties with them. I don't trust they would be discrete (understatement). It's true, I don't feel relaxed in my own home anymore and I have to spend a lot of time here because M doesn't like going out.

 

Curra

[oxgirl]

Thanks Mel,

After the first time they complained I bought slippers and M and I wear them in the flat all the time so that we don't disturb our neighbours. But they kept complaining and even wrote a note saying that they question that my slippers are soft because my footsteps don't sound soft!! They also wrote that my "banging", "crashing" and "knocking" is inconsiderate. The real funny thing is that nobody is making those noises here. It's a mystery.. I'd go through mediation but without discussing my son's difficulties with them. I don't trust they would be discrete (understatement). It's true, I don't feel relaxed in my own home anymore and I have to spend a lot of time here because M doesn't like going out.

 

Curra

 

 

So sorry hun. <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'>

 

~ Mel ~

[curra]

Curra, is there any way you could get together with the woman below you for a friendly chat? If you used to be friendly with her, then maybe she would be open to talking reasonably with you over a cup of coffee. It could be that she doesn't have a problem with the 'noise' and that it's really her partner who isn't happy and if you got back on friendly terms with her, maybe she could talk to her partner about it as well and it could become a bit more amicable.

 

It's horrid, though, isn't it. I used to be on friendly terms with the woman opposite but her dogs were driving me nuts. One day I knocked on her door and asked in a very friendly way if there was anything she could do to stop her dogs barking and she ended up slamming the door in my face!! Last time I saw her she gave me a wicked glare, but I really have no time for her anger. It's funny how some people react though.

 

Sending some of these for you <'> <'> <'>

 

~ Mel ~

 

It's a good idea, Mel. I'll give it some thinking. I don't dare right now because although she's a nice person her partner looks always grumpy and never says Hi (though I do), if you know what I mean. I'd feel awful if he started shouting at me (I'm not very strong as you can see...). So sorry about the problem you had with your neighbour...

 

C. XX

[oxgirl]

It's a good idea, Mel. I'll give it some thinking. I don't dare right now because although she's a nice person her partner looks always grumpy and never says Hi (though I do), if you know what I mean. I'd feel awful if he started shouting at me (I'm not very strong as you can see...). So sorry about the problem you had with your neighbour...

 

C. XX

 

 

Maybe if you catch her on her own one day, see how you feel. I know how hard it is though to pluck up the courage to say something, I'd want to run and hide. Sometimes if you can take a deep breath and go for it, though, it can bring about results (haha, just look at the results I got with dog woman over the road!! How to alienate your neighbours in one easy lesson ) Don't put yourself down, though, you ARE strong and are coping with an awful lot, never forget that. <'> <'>

 

~ Mel ~

[cmuir]

Hi

 

'Fraid I agree with Paula.

 

Neighbours can be a nightmare - I've been on the receiving end too.

 

I don't know what to suggest. I take your point about what you're saying about not wanting to tell your neighbours about your son's medical problems. However, my own feeling is that if people aren't aware of my son's condition, then they can't be expected to be understanding. That said, whilst I don't go around advertising my son's difficulties, there have been occasions eg dreaded shoe shop visits when I've felt it necessary to make the assistant aware of his difficulties. Of course, there are those who aren't interested and don't want to understand.

 

You never know ...

 

My neighbours are awful. I heard them being rude to my 5 year old AS son. I was so angry!!! I waited until the next day (until I'd calmed down!) and thought very carefully what to say. I presented him with a leaflet on AS from NAS and told him that as we are neighbours I felt it necessary to make him aware of my son's difficulties. The leaflet outlined that perfectly. I also told him how disappointed I was that he was so rude to my son and that although he clearly didn't want to talk to him, his rudeness actually had the opposite effect as he confused him. In future, I asked that he tell my son he was busy and would speak to him another time, rather than being so rude. I then marched off quite happy with myself that I'd managed to shame him whilst maintaining my digity and not losing my temper. A leaflet might do the trick and make things easier for you if you went down the route of speaking to your neighbours.

 

NB: Could your landlord have the floor/ceiling soundproofed at his expense?

 

Caroline.

Edited March 14, 2007 by cmuir

[Clare63]

I may be missing something here, but I am sure you said you guys hardly make any noise anyway, so where is your neighbour evidence surely they would have to supply evidence to support their claim and why should you have explain about your son , they should consider themselves lucky you have not got half a dozen kids, have parties every weekend, play loud music late into the night, have a barking dog and wear stilleto's (that's you not the dog ! ) Sorry about that but your neigbours have made me cross. Think Caroline's suggestion of a leaflet or letter might prove helpful. maybe your neighbours want you out because they have friends/family they want moved in ???

Clare x

[curra]

Hi

 

My neighbours are awful. I heard them being rude to my 5 year old AS son. I was so angry!!! I waited until the next day (until I'd calmed down!) and thought very carefully what to say. I presented him with a leaflet on AS from NAS and told him that as we are neighbours I felt it necessary to make him aware of my son's difficulties. The leaflet outlined that perfectly. I also told him how disappointed I was that he was so rude to my son and that although he clearly didn't want to talk to him, his rudeness actually had the opposite effect as he confused him. In future, I asked that he tell my son he was busy and would speak to him another time, rather than being so rude. I then marched off quite happy with myself that I'd managed to shame him whilst maintaining my digity and not losing my temper. A leaflet might do the trick and make things easier for you if you went down the route of speaking to your neighbours.

 

NB: Could your landlord have the floor/ceiling soundproofed at his expense?

 

Caroline.

 

Caroline, I'm sorry your neighbour was so rude to your son. They have no right to be that way with a 5 year old child! I like your idea of presenting my neighbours with a leaflet from the NAS. That might not stop their complaining but it could make them aware that my son is disabled and that they are being unreasonable. The cheapest way to soundproof the floor is with a carpet and that's what I can't do in all the rooms and I wouldn't like them to know the reason why. The best solution is for me to move out, but it's not something one can do from one day to the other.

 

Curra

[curra]

I may be missing something here, but I am sure you said you guys hardly make any noise anyway, so where is your neighbour evidence surely they would have to supply evidence to support their claim and why should you have explain about your son , they should consider themselves lucky you have not got half a dozen kids, have parties every weekend, play loud music late into the night, have a barking dog and wear stilleto's (that's you not the dog ! ) Sorry about that but your neigbours have made me cross. Think Caroline's suggestion of a leaflet or letter might prove helpful. maybe your neighbours want you out because they have friends/family they want moved in ???

Clare x

 

 

Clare, I agree 100%!! Don't think though that they could get friends to rent this flat so easily as there are huge waiting lists. Maybe they think that a new tenant is going to be more quiet??? The people who were here before I rented the flat threw parties every week !! They have no evidence of the alleged noise because there is none.

 

Curra

[Karen A]

Hi I think that if your child has a disability and the housing association tried to take action under the anti-social behaviour policy due to behaviour that is related to that disorder they should not have a leg to stand on.I would not go to mediation in these circumstances.You should not have to defend your child for having a disability-the housing association should be supporting you.Iwould write them a firm clear letter explaining your situation.If you talk to your neighbour yourself in this situation you could be seen as admitting to causing the problem-which could be used against you later.Karen.

Edited March 15, 2007 by Karen A

[pumpkinpie]

I think the idea of getting something in writing from either a gp, paed etc about your sons condition would be very helpful.

i would also start keeping a diary about compl etc from your neighbours, looks etc so you have an idea of frequency. It maybe a silly question but maybe they ate after being rehoused them selves.

The thing is you dont want to look like you are the one being awkward.

 

Has housing been in touch? Maybe you need to ask for them to visit and talk to you, you get a friend to support you. Point out you didnt have any problems before the new partner appeared. I would then put what you had said in writing.

 

It is better to reach a amicable aggreement but you need to protect your self ie doctors note in case of any probelms

[curra]

[

Karen,

Thanks for your advice. What I am still not so sure of is whether to write to the housing association or explain all this over the phone.

In the letter the HA say "You and the complainant would meet in the presence of an impartial person who would help you to resolve your differences...." - but I don't have any "differences" with my neighbours. They can't force me to buy carpet (at least I think) and I am not asking them to do anything !! I fear that once I get into mediation I'll be being pulled into a conflict when I don't really have any part in it, and I would end up having to disclose private information about my son in order to excuse myself.

 

Curra

[curra]

Thanks, Pumpkinpie.

I have my son's diagnosis by the pead , I hope that would help. I am keeping their letters which they have slipped under my door. I do want to be on amicable terms with my neighbours but somehow I feel they are exaggerating the "noise" either to force me to move out (who knows for what reason, it could even be because my son has AS and they are prejudiced - but I really don't know) or, to make me pay for insulation because her partner is oversensitive to noise.

 

Curra

[Karen A]

[

Karen,

Thanks for your advice. What I am still not so sure of is whether to write to the housing association or explain all this over the phone.

In the letter the HA say "You and the complainant would meet in the presence of an impartial person who would help you to resolve your differences...." - but I don't have any "differences" with my neighbours. They can't force me to buy carpet (at least I think) and I am not asking them to do anything !! I fear that once I get into mediation I'll be being pulled into a conflict when I don't really have any part in it, and I would end up having to disclose private information about my son in order to excuse myself.

 

Curra

 

 

Hi again.Sorry I forgott to check your reply so had not answered.However I have just found a section on the ''Every child matters ''Website that may help you.In section 2:19 it states that housing associations have an important role in safeguarding the needs of vulnerable children.The document is on the web.

Hence it is worth just writing to the housing association to explain your child's needs.Don't go to mediation-use the legislation to push them to support you.Karen.

[curra]

Thanks Karen, in the meantime I talked to the housing association over the phone and I told them that my son has a disability and I explained themr why I am not going to have carpet in his room and bathroom, and said that I don't want to disclose medical information to my neighbours, so I see no point in going to mediation. The lady sounded quite nice and she said " I'll explain your situation to your neighbours and that's all we can do". Somehow I don't think that's the last I've heard from them, but I am more relaxed now about the problem.

 

Cheers <'>

 

Curra

[oxgirl]

Thanks Karen, in the meantime I talked to the housing association over the phone and I told them that my son has a disability and I explained themr why I am not going to have carpet in his room and bathroom, and said that I don't want to disclose medical information to my neighbours, so I see no point in going to mediation. The lady sounded quite nice and she said " I'll explain your situation to your neighbours and that's all we can do". Somehow I don't think that's the last I've heard from them, but I am more relaxed now about the problem.

 

Cheers <'>

 

Curra

 

 

Hope this helps to resolve the problem, Curra. <'> <'> <'> <'>

 

~ Mel ~

[curra]

Hope this helps to resolve the problem, Curra. <'> <'> <'> <'>

 

~ Mel ~

 

 

So do I, Mel. Thanks . If anything happens I'll post an update. <'>

 

C.

[Flora]

Hi Curra

 

Do hope you can get this sorted out... it does sound like your neighbours are very intollerant. Noise does carry, especially on bare floors. Bill's bedroom is directly above our breakfast area..... he has exposed floor boards....He hardly moves but he does sit at his pc and is fidgety... the noise from his fidgeting that comes through to the room below would have you think that he was building furniture! Maybe this is the sort of noise your neighbours are hearing? Even so though... they are reacting very aggresively and the council have a duty to ensure that your son is safe and you should not be being harrassed with notes etc.

 

Hope it can be resolved and you can all live in peace.

 

Flora X

[curra]

Hi Curra

 

Do hope you can get this sorted out... it does sound like your neighbours are very intollerant. Noise does carry, especially on bare floors. Bill's bedroom is directly above our breakfast area..... he has exposed floor boards....He hardly moves but he does sit at his pc and is fidgety... the noise from his fidgeting that comes through to the room below would have you think that he was building furniture! Maybe this is the sort of noise your neighbours are hearing? Even so though... they are reacting very aggresively and the council have a duty to ensure that your son is safe and you should not be being harrassed with notes etc.

 

Hope it can be resolved and you can all live in peace.

 

Flora X

 

 

Thanks, Flora - yes I think that they are hearing some noise that's been carried on the bare floor, but it's just the normal footsteps (with soft slippers or barefoot) or the ocassional pencil, book etc falling on the floor. I do the hoovering and turn the washing machine on after 11 am so that it's not so annoying. My neighbour never complained before and it's only recently when her partner moved in and they knew that my son has AS. I want to move out to be able to live normally as I am constantly terrified of dropping something. They don't say Hi anymore when they see me, they seem to be so angry and I haven't done anything to them.

 

Curra

[Karen A]

Thanks, Flora - yes I think that they are hearing some noise that's been carried on the bare floor, but it's just the normal footsteps (with soft slippers or barefoot) or the ocassional pencil, book etc falling on the floor. I do the hoovering and turn the washing machine on after 11 am so that it's not so annoying. My neighbour never complained before and it's only recently when her partner moved in and they knew that my son has AS. I want to move out to be able to live normally as I am constantly terrified of dropping something. They don't say Hi anymore when they see me, they seem to be so angry and I haven't done anything to them.

 

Curra

 

 

Hi make sure you keep a record of any further problems/complaints etc.It will be useful if you decide to ask to be moved out.It would be evidence to support a case that your nieghbours are being unreasonable with regard to your child's behaviour that results from a disability.Karen.

[butterfingersbimbo]

oh chic, can the housing give you somewhere else to move to as you dont even feel relaxed in your own home now and thats terrible! <'>

[Flora]

Thanks, Flora - yes I think that they are hearing some noise that's been carried on the bare floor, but it's just the normal footsteps (with soft slippers or barefoot) or the ocassional pencil, book etc falling on the floor. I do the hoovering and turn the washing machine on after 11 am so that it's not so annoying. My neighbour never complained before and it's only recently when her partner moved in and they knew that my son has AS. I want to move out to be able to live normally as I am constantly terrified of dropping something. They don't say Hi anymore when they see me, they seem to be so angry and I haven't done anything to them.

 

Curra

 

curra... <'>

 

It's totally unreasonable of them..... what do they want you to do? Walk round on your eye lashes. It does sound like they are being vindictive....Do hope you can maybe get somewhere else to live... a house maybe without people below or above.... You must feel like a prisoner in your own home... <'>

 

Flora XX

[curra]

The housing association are aware of all this and I've been on a waiting list to move to a house for more than 2 years. The reason for it has been that my DS doesn't go out and the lack of fresh air is taking its toll. He gets so anxious stuck indoors that he harms himself and gets very aggressive (in words only, thank goodness) with me because Im not able to provide him with more living space. Now with the neighbours complaining and not being able to do much indorrs for fear of receiving another complaint, the situation is getting desperate. I contacted my GP and he supported my application with a letter. I hope we can move out soon!

 

Curra

[curra]

UPDATE

 

Well, the problem continues and this evening I've received a note from my neighbours accusing me of "exacerbating the problem with your unsociable banging and stamping about, deliberatedly to annoy us" and then they go on to threaten me with eviction

They have been hitting their ceiling but we are not banging or stamping about. M is big and clumsy and he can't help it.

 

This must be one of those days when everything bad comes at once.

 

Curra

[hev]

oh curra im sorry you are going through this with your neighbours,it must be hell <'> <'> i dont know what to suggest,hopefully the others will have ideas <'> <'>

[Clare63]

<'> <'> <'>

Hope you'll mention all this when you see SS. Oh Curra I do feel for you, you are having such a time of it of late.

Clare x

[hev]

This must be one of those days when everything bad comes at once.

 

Curra

its so hard when everything goes wrong at once isent it,you got so many things going on in your head that it seems impossible to deal with,try to keep strong,which is easier said than done i know,sorry if youve already said but did you try talking t your lady neighbour about he situation?

[curra]

Thanks Clare, Hev, for your replies <'>

 

My neighbours from hell prefer to send me letters, but I have just written a note to her saying that I am willing to discuss the problem personally with her. I'm afraid of receiving threats and being yelled at, but I guess I will have to be strong and face it if it gets that bad.

I mentioned this situation to SS, as usual they didn't have any solution to offer

apart from suggesting that i ask Citizens Advice Bureau what to do.

 

Well, at least they cannot have me evicted, as I found out this morning!!

 

Curra

[Clare63]

Awww Curra, its all so frustrating isn't it. I wish I lived close by and I would come and give you moral support with your neighbour. If I am not there with you in body I am in spirit.

Clare x <'>

[Karen A]

Hi Keep all of the notes you are sent.How about playing your neighbour at their own game-complain to the housing association that you are being harrased due to your events which are the result of your child's disablity.That sounds like harassment to me. Karen.