Can a 'bright' child go to special school?

[BusyLizzie100]

Going through h*ll at the moment trying to work out what's best.

 

I know I've asked questions related to this before, but specifically I'm trying to work out what's best for a child with ASD who appears to be achieving appropriate curriculum levels (although lower than the average) yet otherwise appears not to be coping at all well.

 

DS2 is age 7, in Year 2. His behaviour has always been bad at home (hitting, scratching, kicking etc) but good at school. Now it is deteriorating at school, especially at playtimes when he seems to target the younger children. He has even whacked his LSA (not hard, but it's not good).

 

Independent speech and lang assessments show he has significant receptive and expressive language disorder, so he really doesn't understand a lot. The learning that he has so far achieved, in my view, is mainly of the learning by rote kind, even his reading.

 

Anyway, the question is: special or mainstream? He has a Statement, which in any case would need increased hours (school of the same opinion), but I feel that the mainstream is failing him and he is 'going under' rapidly - heaven knows what will happen when he goes to year 3 in September.

 

But I feel twitchy about it when people say he's too bright for special school. There's nothing in between in my area, so if it's not special it's mainstream with lots of support and input from outside agencies who are, frankly, rubbish. Aaaaaaaaaaaagh!

 

What to do? His case is going before the provision panel in a few weeks and it's likely to be thrown out because his levels are good. Apparently I can submit my views, but my understanding is that everything rides on his levels. Again, aaaaaaaaaaaagh!

 

I have visited four special schools (MLD schools (for moderate learning difficulties) with autism bases, although he probably wouldn't need to be in the base too much) and like one in particular, mainly because the head seems so switched on about autism (Quote: 'inclusion for children with autism in mainstream is a complete fallacy').

 

Thanks for reading my panicky blurb - any advice or info of any nature would be greatly appreciated! (Wish I had a fairy godmother who could tell me what to do...!)

 

Lizzie x

Edited March 29, 2007 by BusyLizzie100

[cmuir]

Hi

 

I'm having similar concerns about my 5 year old.

 

The massive difficulty is that whether a child is bright or not, isn't really the issue. I think this misleads a lot of people and proves difficult for us parents to make a point. It's about whether a child copes academically and socially. There seems to be generally thinking amongst people in education departments that inclusion is the best policy, but that's all well and good if the child copes and receives support and is accepted by other children. My son is in the bottom group for language, writing, etc (he's still very young, so I'm not overly concerned at the moment anyway). Should this continue, I will be concerned especially coupled with any other signs ie such as deterioration in behaviour.

 

In my opinion, it does sound like there are some possible warning signs that your son isn't coping. I do think it's okay to underachieve, etc however, if there are others signs eg lashing out, moodiness, etc then I'd be concerned that those were signs of not coping. It may be that increasingly level of support may help (don't know if he receives 1-2-1 full time or not). Failing that, I don't think it would do any harm to investigate other options and plan ahead if a special school becomes an option. I'd make an appointment with your son's headteacher and educational psychologist to discuss things. I've done this and we've agreed that we're just going to see how things go from term to term and keep a close eye on him.

 

Edited a little because I didn't read bit about your visit to other schools properly ...

 

Want to add that if you have a preference that this needs to be pushed if things get worse (in Edinburgh decisions are made annually in PAG groups, but meetings held quarterly to discuss childrens' needs). That must be a bit of a relief in the sense that if your son does go to a special school, that you've found one.

 

Best wishes. Hope everything works out - time will tell!

 

Caroline.

Edited March 29, 2007 by cmuir

[scrappybunny]

I think the whole thing is a minefield.

 

My son has been statemented since Y2 (now aged for Y9 but not in school at all - long story) and at the time he always tested as well above average. this has continued despite him spending less and less time in school. And up until a couple of years ago, the Ed Psych always said Mainsteam was the only option as he was very bright and therefore able to cope.

 

However, they couldnt cope, and he couldnt cope, so now we are looking for a specialist school, but arent having much luck as he is usually too able for them And the Ed Psych that kept banging on about mainstream now recommends EBD * cue more *

 

Sorry, I've not been much help, just wanted to share my experience that its hard to find the right provision for a bright kid with SEN. I remember being told by someone years ago that if my son wasnt so bright, the LEA and school would have known exactly what to do and when, but because hes so clever they are stuck.

[Paula]

My 13 year old son attends a special school for moderate learning difficulties and has done since he was 6 years old after a disaterous time in mainestream with 15 hours help per week.

 

He is also resonable bright compared to the other children who attend the school infact his teachers have said hes a joy to teach because he is capable of learning faster than most of there students.he also sat his sat tests last year and gained 3 and 4 in most of them againe brill..........

 

He attends the school though because he is unable to cope in large groups of people and his special school has small classs numbers sometimes just 5 in a class..hes rubbish at socialiseing and gets confused easily......

 

At his last review the teachers said he actually doesnt need to be there because of educational things but because of his social disability i guess and maybe the LEA would recommend he went back to mainstream but that they would say no way as i would so he stays there..........

 

Hed go under at mainstream and the knock on effect would be his work would suffer.

[Karen A]

Hi I am sorry I do not have an easy answer but do know that it is much more complex for children with receptive and expressive language difficulties/ASD/AS.Children with these sort of difficuties can find school a very difficult place regardless of intelligence or educational ability.Ben is very very bright indeed.He is currently off school because he is so stressed and school have not provided appropriate support for the other needs he has.He is very anxious and stressed boy.I don't know what you should do but don't let anyone convince you that appropriate curruculum levels are the main issue.Ben currently has no access to the curiculum at all. Karen.

[JsMum]

You could ask your LEA to send you a list of specific special schools including independant schools that they would be willing to pay and have a look at some outer areas schools, I am researching a few residential schools two which J needs to have a diagnosis of AS to attend, the other one he could attend with diagnosis he has now but I will have to proove that the mainstream cant meet his needs and therefor looking for secondary transfer as he will no way cope in mainstream secondary.

 

Priory education services have specific schools and there is a list of specific school on the Sen gabattass website

 

NAS have educational helpline who can offer support and assistance with more information as well.

 

Good luck I think there is a real gap for some kids, they dont suit special schools, and they dont cope in mainstream.

 

JsMum

[baddad]

Hi all -

This is a really tricky area 'cos many LEA's try to push the higher achievers into mainstream with absolutely no regard for their emotional wellbeing. Not being able to 'cope' in mainstream may have nothing to do with the academic elements of school, especially at secondary IMHO, but getting that acknowledged before it all goes pear shaped is no easy task...

There are a FEW schools around that have a HFA designation, but not many. Having said that, though, many 'severe and complex needs' designated schools have the skills to support our HF children than mainstream, because again there is a recognition that 'severe and complex needs' doesn't have to mean 'academic need'...

Best place to start is to get on to your LEA and ask them for their lists of all maintained schools and units in the area, Mainstream and SEN, and see what's around.

You don't mention if your child has a statement, but if not that's going to make it all much harder. If there is a statement have a good look through that and see what bits of it the panel need to be aware of to make an informed decision, but if they are making a decision in the next few weeks you're really going to have to get your skates on...

 

L&P

BD

[bid]

My son is 'gifted' (hate that term ) and he went to an independent residential special school for AS, funded by the LEA and SS.

 

I think we might be the same LEA??

 

PM me if you want any mpre info.

 

Bid

[Deedee]

Hi Busy Lizzie wow I could have written your post you know..our situation is so the same its untrue!!! Our M is in yr 3 though but we started to feel exactly as you are now last year.We have exactly the same probs with M with communication difficulties etc and despite my pleas for more support we are still struggling along in mainstream.

I don't know wether you have read any of my ongoing saga but this year since Sept they are finally having to start listening to me.I eventually got them to agree to reassess him and so far 3 out of 3 professionals have said he's withdrawing from our world again.I am not saying this to worry you hun please don't think that but I am totally agreeing with what you are saying about things.M has now got the the point where because of the lack of support our kids all need in 'other areas' NOT educationwise,but socially etc he is starting to shut down..and when he's not,he's in meltdown.

I have posted this because I hope it may help you to head off the problems we are facing now...if it can help you by telling you what we are going through it makes it worthwhile for me <'>

We went to see a base for M in Feb and we also have always had doubts about this route or special school as we feel he is of average intelligence BUT on seeing how their attitude is soooo geared towards our kids I am now fighting tooth and nail to get him in there!!!

At this moment in time he needs that nurturing side that only a base can provide..he needs the stress taken away and to us and all the other proffessionals he has seen recently it makes the most sense.

His CP at Camhs said to me only on Monday when we were talking about this,if he stays in mainstream so stressed will he learn anything anyway,or would it be better to go into a base where if he's happier he will learn so much more and on his terms...This was the thing I needed to hear to confirm to myself I wouldn't be 'letting him down' by removing him from mainstream,I would NOT be saying he or we had failed I would just be 'tweaking' things to suit his current needs and ever changing way of learning...

I hope that endless waffle made some sense to you I also hope you have some support in your professionals you have working with you so if like me you struggle to make the choice they will hopefully help you and your lovely boy find the right path for you D XX

[mossgrove]

Our eldest (9, Aspergers) is well ahead of his peers academically. He is currently at an Autism-specific special school as he was completely unable to cope in a mainstream environment. He is in year 4 with 7 other children in his class, all of whom are in year 6. He has a dedicated 1:1 for most of the school day as he has had for all of the time he has been there as there is so much (outside of the academic) that he cannot cope with.He was in mainstream until the end of year two and was on the verge of a breakdown. Taking him out of that environment and getting him into a Special School is the best thing we ever did for him. It still isn't easy as his behaviour can be very challenging, but he wouldn't be at school at all now if we hadn't removed him from mainstream. From speaking to other parents it seem that there is a 'crunch point' at around year 3 when the NT children get so far ahead socially that the cracks become impossible to hide.

 

 

Simon

[Noetic]

I wish I had been allowed to. I went to a special ed kindergarten for almost two years as a "normal" child and was devastated that I had to go to state kindergarten afterwards

[curra]

Hi Busy Lizzie,

My son was placed in a mainstream secondary despite his social difficulties because he's bright and got good results in his SATs. But the lack of understanding of his needs and the social isolation he suffered at that school caused him a breakdown and he began to show very low achievement. He goes now to another mainstream with an ASD unit and he's doing very well academically again as he feels that people at school understand him - he's even going to do one GCSE this year (he's 13). Even with his good language skills, he's still well behind his NT peers socially speaking. He knows it and describes it as having a "wall between him and the rest".

 

 

Curra

[pim]

Hi,

 

It's such a dilema isn't it. We' re going through the same thing. All the professionals dealing with Ds say he needs something in the middle between Mainstream and Special and there just isn't anything, as you all too well know.

 

I can guess which MLD school you liked. DS goes to panel too, most probably the same one and we've been told he wouldn't qualify as all the professionals think he should be in Mainstream.

 

Just had the documents back from the statement review and of course LEA are not going to increase his support, as all the money has gone to the schools now. This doesn't help as DS school budget has actually decreased this year even with the transistion money. I feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall.

 

Have you ever asked any HT's at the MLD schools if they have any bright kids? They most probably deny it or not be openly up front about it.

 

I had a look at Priory schools and sadly there are none nearby + the Gabbitas site and again couldn't find anything except the MLD schools.

 

I also worry for now much longer DS can manage in Mainstream before it's all too much for him.

 

Sorry no advice but I'm feeling exactly the same as you.

 

 

pim

[BusyLizzie100]

thanks everybody for your replies, they are such a help. Thanks especially to Deedee and Pim - I think we all going through such similar experiences at the moment!

 

Deedee, you've put into words everything that I feel and I really am convinced that he will be better in special school, mainly because of the stress and because he needs something that is geared up towards him, instead of trying to fit in with everyone else.

 

Pim, yes, one head said she currently had a child who sounded a lot like DS2: doing Okish in levels but miles behind in terms of social skills etc. Will PM you about the school we prefer!!

 

Bid, yes I think we are the same LEA but I just couldn't stand the thought of residential. I think that might actually make things worse for DS2.

 

Thanks again, all. Where would I be without you? You are all my fairy godmother rolled into one!

 

Lizzie xx

[Kathryn]

Hi Pim and BusyLizzie

 

Nothing in this county for high functioning children like ours, as we've so often said, haven't we. As you know my daughter's good attainment was the main barrier to us getting any kind of support. It's a disgrace.

 

I'll continue to write letters and rant about it to whoever will listen - wish I could do more for you guys. <'>

 

K x

[Deedee]

Lizzie when we had the tour of the base the staff member showing us round spoke of a little boy who had recently left for high school..She said "X sat all his SATS last year and acheived very good scores in them,he was a bright boy but if you took him to a lake,he would read you the 'Danger deep water' sign perfectly BUT probably jump straight on in as he would not have the understanding of what it actually meant as he had no fear..." I nearly kissed her as she seemed to understand Did bring a tear to my eye though

I have often said its like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole trying to find a school that 'fits' but this seems like the closest to it I will get..

As my son is older at the current school they expect him to just remember to pick up his stuff at the end of the day,put his coat on etc..at the base they have visual cues everywhere like we have at home..At least I now have everyone on side to push for a move its just a matter of no places and the LEA refusing to budge I have to overcome now

[Brook]

My situation is very similar to Paula's, my son was unable to cope in mainstream and the LEA said he was most likely too bright for the special school and didn't have learning difficulties..... my reply was he has difficulty learning in an environment that he cannot function in, therefore he has a learning difficulty, he is really thriving in his special school and he is now reading in assemblies (couldn't attend in the mainstream, too much for him) he is loving PE (couldn't cope with it in the mainstream) he NEVER says he doesn't want to go to school, infact he had to have a day off for dental treatment and he was going crazy because he wanted to go to school.. (he used to beg me to keep him off at his old school)..

 

my son is most likely the brightest kid in the class, and I have seen his confidence grow and grow, this is so different to the child that was near to breakdown, he is a big fish in a small pond and he is happy and all the while he is happy he will continue to learn and achieve.. he is in the right environment to meet his social and emotional needs, therefore his academic side of things is now shining through.. and the school he attends sets work to meet the individuals level, so he is not being held back.

 

Good luck

 

Brook

[JsMum]

" I just couldn't stand the thought of residential. I think that might actually make things worse for DS2"

 

I use to think this also but having look throw a number of education enviroments it seems that the schools that actually could meet all the areas of Js development tend to be residential, even the day attenders would be out as they are so far away, so its started to make me realise that if I want J to get the right support, understanding and specialist provisoin then I have to look into residential, I have looked throw a few and looking at some more local of which are:

 

1. EBD school where most have severe behavioural and challenging behaviour and they dont take ASD children.

2. Severe Learning Difficulties and physical disabilties

3. severe Autism

 

there is nothing in between at all in my area whats so ever so I have been looking further afield and some are for children who are bright in certain subjects commonly, ITC, Science, Maths, so he will thrive in the areas he is stronger in but recieve support for English, as it is very well understood that they may struggle with putting on paper their thoughts and feelings, and J cant read anything basic so will need it interpriting, he will also access support for social aspects too.

 

I have come around the thought of residential more lately as he has grown up and I see how much he is cooped up in the house, he no longer attends any activities, he doesnt play out, he doesnt go to his friends house as much as his friends come here, he is not coping on a daily basis with tasks, and becomes agitated over the weekend and evenings as he cant focus for more than 5-10 mins on one thing and his concentration when thats gone he becomes frustrated and upset.

 

I have begun to feel lately if the right enviroment came along that could promote and give support to J then if it means residential then that has to be a better lifestyle than the one he has at presant as to be honest some weekends are close for him to be accomadated by the social services, who to be honest wont look at all the extra needs J needs, and the whole experience of care may make things even worse.

 

I have given residentail a lot more thought lately and I think thats because when I look at the alternatives they are worse because placing him a EBD school near by wouldnt be right, a severe learning resource wouldnt be right and a severe autism resource wouldnt be right and a mainstream secondary wouldnt be right either so my choices are becoming very few.

 

From the posts I have read about their children going into a residential spersific school are positive and from what I read the times that the child is back home its more positive and quality time.

 

JsMum

Edited March 30, 2007 by JsMum

[claire33]

Hi buzzie lizzie

 

I am like that myself my k is in a support unit in a different school on a morning and then back to mainstream on an afternoon, i dont think myself that he copes well with it and ill not even start with the problems going from one school to another has encountered.

Although he hasn't been diagnosed with as i am positive he has it and i feel the same as you i dont yet know if he is going to be put into year three but if he is i really cant see him coping at all.

My k is also below average IQ his assesment suggested that although he is 7 he is probably only functioning at about 3-4yrs, and his learning especially his reading down to rote memory.

It was even said when i got the results that the school really didnt understand his problems and expected far to much, they also said that really they didn't think he should be in mainstream, which i dont know what to do about, as there is no other specialists schools here and like i said the one he attends at the moment only do mornings.

If i knew of one i would move homes just to make life easier for him.