Prospects AS/HFA Employment Service

[Mumble]

I realise this is probably better suited to the 'Beyond Adolescence' sub-forum, but I'm in desperate need of experiences people are willing to share, and I know this 'General Discussion' sub-forum gets a lot more passing attention.

 

Does anyone have any experiences, good or bad, of the Prospects Employment and Student Services? They're linked to the NAS and were originally set up to help AS/HFA young adults into (and staying in) employment. In some areas of the country they have branched out and offer support to students whilst in university before they get to needing to find employment.

 

I'm having a really tough time and although it's only early days I'm not sitting round waiting for things to get worse and cause me greater levels of stress this time - I have decided to be very pro-active and I have the support of academics in my university. A huge part of the problem is that the records show things are fine because of some dodgy reports on the part of people who should be responsible for making sure I'm happy. This could be a one off, but I'm not prepared to take that chance.

 

If anyone has any experiences they would be willing to share, no matter how small and insignificant they may be (the trouble of course being that what some people think are small and insignificant issues are actually rather important issues to the AS/HFA individual concerned) please, please either reply or PM me. I need to know that I'm not going mad and 'making a moutain out of a molehill' and it would really help me, and the academics who are supporting me, to know whether my problems are one offs of more general. Thanks.

 

And I forgot to add - if anyone's been through university with support that has been worthwhile and trouble free could you let me know what that support is/was and where it was accessed from - thanks.

[Mumble]

Hmm, do I take that as no experiences then?

 

Well I guess that's interesting in itself as I've been led to believe they're widely used and the best available in my situation. Hmm. Now I'm confuzzled.

[TheNeil]

Hi Mumble,

 

Emily and I went to see the Leeds Prospects people on Monday and the results were not encouraging. They pretty said that they couldn't help with placements or finding work but just kept banging on about their 15 week 'into work' course which seemed to be a one-size-fits-all thing where the attendees were taught how to find a job, how to create a CV, what to wear for interview etc. Only in the final session (i.e. after 14 weeks of tedium) did they actually seem to go through subjects like how to cope in the workplace.

 

I've had some contact with them beforehand and they have been uniformly useless, providing nothing in the way of help when I asked if they had any advice about what to do after my dx with regards to work (their attitude seemed to be: You've got a job so you're no longer a 'problem'). Given that it often takes them over a week to even call me back with regards simple questions (questions like, 'have you received the letter we sent?') I am decidedly unimpressed.

 

While I'm sure that they do sterling work and that their help and support is needed by some people, their approach seems to forget that each Aspie is different and that we each have different needs, circumstances, skills and abilities. Instead they seemed to assume that every Aspie has a social worker (), has been dx'd since childhood(), has some sort of learning difficulties () and needs help with even the most basic of everyday tasks. The people on Monday seemed to be quite amazed that Emily and me had not only managed to get to Leeds on our own (I know, it's amazing - we'll be telling them that we don't have anyone who takes care of us next ) but that both of us were capable of not only driving but having qualifications and being able to tie our own shoelaces.

 

After an hour of talking to them I felt depressed, insulted and totally frustrated (note to Prospects: Please don't talk to me like a simpleton, I will tear you apart if you do it again)(and don't go getting all nasty when we decide not to go on your course as we feel that others would find it more beneficial)(they actually did get nasty - thanks for that, great way to 'help').

 

I've just realised that I've been ranting - oops.

[Mumble]

Neil,

 

I've got to go out to see my tutor (one of the helpful ones) but I'll reply/PM you later. This is both what I was hoping I wouldn't hear but also what I was expecting Your experiences are very similar to what I've had in terms of being treated as though I can't cope with anything and that all AS individuals are the same. I was totally shocked at the level of ignorance about AS shown be someone whose job it is to work in that field - I find this such a frightening prospect. I'm supposed to be putting up with 5 hours a week of this, but there's absolutely no way I'm standing for that.

 

If anyone else has any experiences if would really help me to see that I'm not mad (I thought I'd got over the I'm mad bit at diagnosis ). Thanks.

[Lucas]

I went to Prospects in Leeds and finished earlier this year. My experience was different from TheNeil's although I did find problems with the course material that were acknowledged. Three of us out of the five including myself claim DLA for mobility and needed help getting to the first Prospects meeting. Maureen(I think that was her name) was actually quite suprised by the extent that sensory issues affected me despite my diagnosis being AS, so if you attended more recently and felt they underestimated you, it could be because our group seemed to have more critical needs in general.

 

They did seem to be very aware though that we were a varied bunch. One person appeared to have very strong emotions he tried to keep under control, you could tell by the stress and pitch of his voice which he seemed well-aware of and was apoligising a lot "if that didn't come out right" . Another was very social and had more than 200+ friends, but was totally absorbed in WWE wrestling.

 

But they actually were helping three of us with placements; except for myself and one other because I was already planning to go to training college(where I am now) and he was at university. I don't know what has changed, although funding may have because one of the ladies did mention at a presentation they held that they were running out. I got to speak at the presentation so put together a powerpoint presentation featuring a man on fire, the Fonz, Chuck Norris, Chewbacca and a dog on a tricycle. After that there was even talk of the NAS hiring me to do workshops explaining Autism!

 

The best benefit was being in contact with other Autistics, it helped all of us to learn how we are similiar and different. Our real problems were all the same; we'd all been in jobs or on courses that we hated and we hated them for the same reasons.

[Canopus]

"If Prospects was any good then Asperger Technical would never have been invented."

 

This was the quote by one of the founding members of Asperger Technical. He had used Prospects and his experience was strikingly similar to that of TheNeil.

 

The staff assumed that everybody they saw had an official diagnosis and treated him as if he had lower functioning (Kanner) autism or some learning disability. They were also unhelpful when it came to providing advice on finding a suitable career and tried to get him to take any unskilled job that was going. They seem to have a job is a job is a job attitude rather than helping people find careers that make use of their skills and qualifications. One of the biggest disappointments was the lack of connections with employers. All Prospects seemed to do was provide words then expected people to find jobs by themselves. The staff didn't even know where certain types of jobs are advertised and told him to look in the local rag.

[pearl]

My one and only contact with Prospects was when I was fighting for reasonable adjustments during JP's first set of apprenticeship tests. I rang on the Thursday, & got an answerphone saying the guy was out of the office till the following Wednesday! Given that the test was on Monday it was less than helpful.

[Mumble]

Thank you Lucus, Canopus and Pearl (and the Neil again!) - you've all been really helpful.

 

Lucas - I'm glad you found some use in them, although I do think you've hit a very valid point in talking about the level of need/critical need. I think this does in many ways tie in with what others have said (and my experience) of being treated as low functioning. I'm glad you enjoyed the presentation - I'd love to have the confidence to do similar and hope that one day I will (though that's something mentoring support should be addressing ). I also think it's interesting that you talk of placements - perhaps the issues I'm dealing with (and I think this is clearly written by Canopus) is that I don't want to be 'placed'. I'm doing a PhD in a field I love and in an area I want to work following my course. I will do whatever it takes, however much work, however much effort, even facing up to things like presentations and conferences which absolutely terrify me, if it means I can stay in what I'm doing. I worry constantly that my supervisors will turn round and tell me I'm 'not good enough' and ask me to leave. I'd hoped mentoring would help me address these fears and the specific issues they relate to. Perhaps it can, but perhaps it needs to come from a service more geared up to that type of support rather than work placement.

 

Canopus - I think you're absolutely right (not often I say that is it!! ). I said it in reply to Lucus - I don't want any job - I want support in what I care about and want to do. I've had 'any job' - I used it to live off to get my first degree to get 'better job'. I now want 'best job for me' - I am not going back to 'any job' and I'm not going to be treated as if that is all I'm worthy of because I'm autistic. Autism doesn't mean I can't - in fact aspects of it mean I can moreso than others. What stops me is the attitudes of 'the professionals' to autistic people. And that scares me a lot - the people who should 'know' don't, but they think they do.

 

Pearl - If I get another 'out of office autoreply' from my mentor, I may just start sending them back to her so she's aware how annoying they are! Contact me immediately if there's a problem she says - and if I do I get a message saying 'not here, can't help, be around in a few days, hope you don't die in the meantime' (ok, I made the last bit up!! :lol:)

 

And The Neil (wrong order of replying I know, but I'm not changing it now!!), I think that, in combination with others, sums it up - they're about 'into (any) work', they not set up for ongoing support (well they say they are, but I don't see it), and certainly not set up for giving support at university, particularly at higher levels beyond undergraduate degrees. And I notice you have the timelapse problem Pearl and I have - I don't exactly find them 'efficient' (or anywhere in the vacinity of efficient for that matter). The getting nasty bit worries me - I already feel like I'm 'treading on egg shells' (see - I'm doing well with my metaphor a day learning!!!!! ) and that she'll 'explode' (again not in the literal sense although her doing a Brainiac Caravan impression would be interesting to watch) if I dare not to agree and be 100% happy with her.

 

Well, at least you've all heped me to see that I'm not going mad(er). I have to see the mentor tomorrow which I'm very worried about (surely that's not how it should be ) but my supervisor/tutor have given excellent advice in how to handle her (ooh, she'd better not find out about that - she'll be making big 'BURDEN' labels and sticking them all over me ).

 

Would any of you mind (totally anonymously of course) if I used your general experiences to backup what I'm saying and to show I'm not being the idiot who can't even form a suitable relationship with someone who's supposed to help?

[pearl]

Just one little thing that crossed my mind ... we are right in wanting the best job possible to suit our skills, not just "any" job. But if its a choice between unemployment and "any" job, I would go for "any" job every time. Reason being, its a lot easier to get a new job when you are already in employment, even if its shelf-stacking. It lessens the gaps in ones CV and indicates to an employer that you are willing to graft.

 

I'm a graduate, but in my time have done ironing for a living, mushroom picking, waitressing, whatever keeps the wolf from the door. (New metaphor for you Mumble! )

 

Mr pearl works in the front line at the jobcentre, & he gets newly unemployed executives, former military personnel etc with inflated expectations, & whilst a few of them get exactly what they are looking for fairly quickly, its rare, and he does his best to convince them to lower their expectations & consider ANYTHING suitable rather than wait forever for the perfect job to come up.

[Mumble]

Hi Pearl

 

Sorry, I clearly didn't express myself very well. I'm not for one minute degrading doing 'any job'. I've done plenty of 'any jobs' and I would do again if necessary. My issue is mainly about being treated as if that's all I'm capable of because I'm AS.

 

I think the support that's been selected for me is wrong. It's clear from Lucus' experience that it can be beneficial and I wouldn't for one minute knock that, but it doesn't match with my current needs. I'm not being unrealistic - I know both what my strengths and weaknesses are and I hope that I can have adequate support to find effective strategies to deal with my weaknesses so that it is my strengths that people see. Prospects, in it's aims and the way it is set up, are perhaps not the best people to provide this, but I'm not sure who is. I just wanted to know from this thread that I wasn't going mad in the impression I had got!

 

Wolf from the door?

Edited July 26, 2007 by Mumble

[pearl]

Then we are "on the same page" (in agreement) then Mumble. You are right, from that other thread as well it does seem like Prospects & the like are struggling to help intelligent articulate Aspies, they need to raise their game (sheesh, another metaphor - umm, improve their performance)

 

Wolf from the Door *goes to google*

 

Ward off starvation or financial ruin. For example, In many countries people are working simply to keep the wolf from the door, and owning a car or washing machine is just a dream, or Gail would take any job now, just to keep the wolf from the door. This term alludes to the wolf's fabled ravenousness. [Mid-1500s] Thats from Answers.com

 

Yay, I used it correctly!

[madme]

This is a v interesting thread. I hope I'm not hijacking it. My son is nearly 12. He is a reasonably articulate boy who has quite a few difficulties- adhd, aspergers, dyspraxia and dyscalculia. He works hard at school and should be capable of going to university (given his IQ and results in some of his exams) - certainly he aspires to that. We recently got back from holiday. He was so pleased as he was offered a chance by a steward on the plane of meeting the captain and seeing how it all works ( he had been asking the steward lots of questions about the plane). He is obsessed by his flight stimulator games and unbeknown to him we have booked a trial flight lesson for his upcoming birthday- we cant afford for him to do his PPL but perhaps when he is older. He has started to say that he wants to become a pilot. I'm not sure how to deal with this- he is on meds and so I cant see how he would pass the medical. He may not be on meds when hes older and I'm sure that his ambitions will change. To be a pilot you need to be reasonably good at maths and physics- cant see that happening despite the intensive help he is getting. He asked me yesterday if these labels are going to stop him doing lots of things? I dont want to discourage him and want him to aim as high as he can. Sorry I'm not making much sense. It worries me to read some of your experiences.

[Bard]

My brother got his PPL and has a plane. One of the things that I found scary is how much info you have to process from so many different sources, simultaneously.

When we flew to France, he was monitoring instruments, and keeping a constant visual surveillance for planes, balloons, rainclouds etc. At the same time he was navigating with a map and having a constant flow of audio-input from the traffic controllers from airspace to airspace. Some of the controllers had hard to distinguish accents! It was impressive, but no way I could have handled so much information in so many different formats.

I think you are right to encourage him to aim as high as he can, but be ready to catch him!

[Mumble]

Hi Madme,

 

Don't worry about hijacking the thread, I do it to other people all the time!! I can see why you're worried, but in all honesty I believe that labels are helpful as they tell other what the best course of action is to help an individual (have a read of parts of Llisa's thread on this). The difficulties I've had have been with people who should know and think they know, but don't actually know. This is what makes these dangerous people in terms of equality of opportunity - they're too closed to what they believe an autistic person is capable of and too focussed on the negative. Positively, my university on the academic side have been absolutely fantastic - and they don't have formal training. They have taken the time to learn alongside me what AS means to me and how best to help me. The label helps them to know where to go for specific information.

 

I'm fascinated that your son wants to be a pilot - that was the one thing I really wanted to be when I was young (still do actually and intend one day when I'm not a poor student to get my pilots licence). I was told this was unsuitable for me, not because of any academic reason (I wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult btw) but because I am female and I don't have 20:20 vision . There will always be barriers to what we want to achieve, but we have to have ambition or we'd all just sit around doing nothing - and it sounds to me like your son has both ambition and family support behind him. He may not become a pilot through 'traditional' routes but this doesn't mean it can't be a sideshoot to what he does do or an interest he has. I think the trial flight lesson is a great way to start - I did a few when I was a year or two older than your son and I absolutely loved it. Incidently, I know the costs involved are very high - for a (slightly) cheaper alternative, have you looked into gliding? This doesn't appeal to me as much, but it is cheaper (and quieter!) and might 'fill in' as a viable alternative in the meantime?

 

Bard - let your brother know I've given up on my abseiling off Big Ben idea - I'm going to use his plane instead for a 'swoop and grab' attack!!! :lol:

 

On a separate note, if anyone is still reading this - have any of you who've had negative experiences with, or know people who've had negative experiences with Prospects, ever complained to them or anyone else - I feel like I'm out on my own here but I know I can't be the only one.

[Canopus]

Just one little thing that crossed my mind ... we are right in wanting the best job possible to suit our skills, not just "any" job. But if its a choice between unemployment and "any" job, I would go for "any" job every time. Reason being, its a lot easier to get a new job when you are already in employment, even if its shelf-stacking. It lessens the gaps in ones CV and indicates to an employer that you are willing to graft.

 

There is a bit of a controversy with this. Some people think it is better to take any job no matter how miserable and menial it is. Other people think it is better to take benefits and do voluntary work in something you enjoy, or learn new skills that would be of use in employment. A skills and experience gap is a technical problem for the employee, but a lack of paid employment gap is a psychological problem seen by some employers.

 

The Job Centre has a duty and contract to fill vacancies they have on their database which is why they often try and force people to take any job rather than offering them help and support to find a job that better matches their skills and qualifications. One of my criticisms of the Job Centre is that most jobs they have on file are in the private sector. Connections between the Job Centre and major public sector employers such as the Civil Service, NHS, universities, and councils is quite poor. I think a better relationship with the public sector would be a very good move because the public sector offers a wide variety of jobs at every level.

 

Then we are "on the same page" (in agreement) then Mumble. You are right, from that other thread as well it does seem like Prospects & the like are struggling to help intelligent articulate Aspies, they need to raise their game (sheesh, another metaphor - umm, improve their performance)

 

There is a question whether it is better to improve Prospects, or whether it is better to sod Prospects and establish more effective and understanding organisations.

[Mumble]

There is a question whether it is better to improve Prospects, or whether it is better to sod Prospects and establish more effective and understanding organisations.

I think you raise some important issues here Canopus. I'm doing my PhD - I don't need to - I'm perfectly employable in a job I quite enjoy without it and that would bring in enough income to live fairly well on (perhaps not in London, but I don't want to stay here forever anyway), but I've chosen to do this because it's what I really want to do and will hopefully lead to a career I would really enjoy. I'm lucky in that I got a scholarship to pay for this, but it's very much just a 'living wage' - enough to have a roof over my head and to eat basic food. I don't get benefits for anything like health care because I've 'chosen' not to be in employment at the moment. Prospects can't understand this decision or help me because they're simply not geared up for anything other than the basic - they only seem to know one way to treat people (see the other thread similar to this) and I don't fit that so they don't know what to do with me.

 

Your question is a very difficult one. I'd like to just turn round to them and say sod the lot of you - you're a useless waste of my time who cause me more upset than having no support. Probably not the most productive way to progress but that's what I feel like. But if I was to say 'sod you' I have to question what the alternatives are. I think what we need is for Prospects to become a 'more effective and understanding organisation' - how though is the real question. My answer would start with listening, which they don't seem to be very good at, and removing this prejudice (as highlighted in the other thread) that AS individuals can't possibly help and support other AS individuals. We all know that that is total rubbish and that some of the best support we get and give comes from others who understand because they have first hand experience.

 

I want things to change. In fact they have to change. These two threads have fully opened that proverbial can of worms. How many other AS individuals are out there suffering at the hands of so called caring professionals who 'know' what's best for us. I thought, as did other posters about themselves, that I was the only one going through these experiences. These threads have helped me to see that this is far from the case and that I am far from unique in the treatment I have received. This got me out of the 'I'm helpless' state the mentor so kindly put me into, but leaves me with a very angry state - angry for myself, angry for those who have suffered before me, angry for those suffering now, and very angry for those who will continue to suffer in the furture if nothing is done to bring about change in the immediate future. What I can't (yet) see clearly is how to productively bring about this change (rather than just be seen as giving an angry response) but I almost feel that I have some moral responsibility to do something since I started this post and all these experiences started coming out.

 

Any ideas on a positive approach to positive change greatly appreciated.

[Alyth_mum]

Mumble is there an advocacy service for students - maybe student's union?

I'm well out of touch with Student's union - almost 25 yrs since last delt with them. Sounds as though you need a decent Mentor who can help you with the needs you raised of:

I will do whatever it takes, however much work, however much effort, even facing up to things like presentations and conferences which absolutely terrify me, if it means I can stay in what I'm doing. I worry constantly that my supervisors will turn round and tell me I'm 'not good enough' and ask me to leave. I'd hoped mentoring would help me address these fears and the specific issues they relate to.

 

I did my nurse training and once qualified we were expected to Mentor the in-coming students and all the aspects you raise were things that I assumed as a Mentor we were suppose to help with (with support from the tutors for us Mentors). What aspects does your Mentor help you with?

I find this thread very interesting because I'm sure in about 6/7 years time these will the problems my ES will be facing.

 

Louise

[Mumble]

Hi Alyth Mum,

 

The student's union is a possibility I hadn't considered - I might raise this with my supervisor/tutor who are very keen that I get the support I need.

 

What does my mentor (currently) do? She makes me scared, angry, feel worthless and an unnecessary burden on the people who care about me. What should she do - help me with the things I've outlined. There has to be this sort of support out there but I'm at a dead end trying to find it. They say that there is no one who would want such a job - this I can't understand and will not accept and it makes me so angry that I have to fight for such support.

 

Mumble

[Alyth_mum]

Who allocates you a mentor? Is it possible to get another mentor? Is anyone else, besides us, aware of how your Mentor makes you feel?

 

Sorry, no other ideas at present.

 

Louise

[Mumble]

Who allocates you a mentor? Is it possible to get another mentor? Is anyone else, besides us, aware of how your Mentor makes you feel?

Prospects - and apparently she's the best they have - makes me worry an awful lot about what other AS individuals are putting up with. My supervisor and tutor know and are being fantastic in helping me through this horrible situation, but that's not part of their job and they shouldn't have to, making me feel quilty about the amount of their time I take up. I did think it might be that I've just been unlucky, but this seems not to be the case - hence I need to find someone from a more suitable source - but I don't know where.

[Canopus]

Any ideas on a positive approach to positive change greatly appreciated.

 

I have always held the attitude of setting a better example yourself before criticising your opponent.

 

Something I have read more than once is that the best support for people with AS often comes from various small organisations run by volunteers as opposed to the big organisations run by the so called professionals. A lot of these so called professionals are unaware of the existence of these volunteers and internet forums and their contributions to the AS community.