opositional separation behaviour

[kellyanne]

Hi everyone <'>

 

This is going to sound a bit daft, but I just need to ask if any of you have heard of 'opositional separation behaviour' or words to that effect.

The reason I am asking is this..........

 

J's shared TA has suggested that he maybe experiencing this,

a) because of J's behaviour towards me and his dad in the mornings refusing to do as we ask and generally going against everything we say,

because EVERY friday afternoon at school J goes into meltdown and is taken out of class etc... his shared TA thinks this maybe because J is so used to having him around all week so that when it comes to friday pm J knows that he isn't going to see his shared TA over the weekend

 

Any thoughts or ideas on this would be of great help

 

Thank you in advance

 

Kellyanne x x

[JsMum]

Hi everyone <'>

 

This is going to sound a bit daft, but I just need to ask if any of you have heard of 'opositional separation behaviour' or words to that effect.

The reason I am asking is this..........

 

J's shared TA has suggested that he maybe experiencing this,

a) because of J's behaviour towards me and his dad in the mornings refusing to do as we ask and generally going against everything we say,

because EVERY friday afternoon at school J goes into meltdown and is taken out of class etc... his shared TA thinks this maybe because J is so used to having him around all week so that when it comes to friday pm J knows that he isn't going to see his shared TA over the weekend

 

Any thoughts or ideas on this would be of great help

 

Thank you in advance

 

Kellyanne x x

 

 

I have not heard of this one before and it sounds very specticle with very little understanding, just judgement in my eyes, its very suggestive that your child has an element of control over his behaviour, I dont like the title one bit, its a bit like suggesting he has seperation anxiety and oppositional Defiant Disorder, I personally think when a child is oppositional its a real aviodance to something they dislike either they will feel real anxiety or great destress they cant verbalise this and display delay tactics or aviodance behaviour that can be mistaken for Oppositional, or seperation difficulties.

 

I think seperation and attatchment issues are more about not feeling secure enough with strangers/unfamilair people or people that are not going to give the understanding the parent/carer is going to have, mostly why J is mostly aggressive with myself is because he feels safe and secure and knows I wont strike back.

 

If he has a diagnosis already of ASD then its highly likely that its all conectted to the anxieties he feels around tasks, planning and organising.

 

Some social stories to help him prepare the seperation and some art or play therapy to help with the emotions he is going throw to help him express.

 

JsMum

[stressedmumto2]

'opositional separation behaviour'

 

 

Sorry this has made me LOL what are the school thinking

 

My son used to be very oppositional with me and when seperating from me for going to school and going to his dad's and it took a lot of work to realise what was going on, at school he was anxious all day as he didn't know what he was meant to be doing and when, couldn't do the work and found being with peers difficult at times although he loved the social contact.

 

When with his dad his dad would ask him to rub his feet or scratch his back which due to my son's senssory issues he couldn't bear, dad would also force the issue of nails cut without making them soft first and clothes my son couldn't bear to wear, once most of these issues were dealt with and it took a lot of digging to get to this being the problem things started to improve.

 

So going to these places and my son wouldn't seperate from me, to others it looked like he had an attachment disorder and this has been the term used by some professionals that have little understanding To me when a child is being oppositional there is usually always a resaon behind it and that needs investigating.

 

I've been thinking a lot about this recently, my son has a friend who he loves to play with everyday (although at the mo' they are not friends so aren't playing with each other) but when it's time for my son to come in from being with this friend my son can't bear to seperate from him and will become very oppositional towards me, not wanting to come in running off etc. I wonder if it's because where they have been friends and sometimes they fall out it's a complete stop for a few months and my son doesn't know when they will play again so wants to hang onto this friend at all costs of even scaring him away because he kind of becomes a bit obsessive!!

 

I wonder if this could be the case with your son, in the sense that he has an close relationship to the teacher and is scared that when he doesn't see him for a few days he may not see him again, has your son had this happen to him before a close friendship and then just suddenly not seen the person again, i.e. relative who lives far away that he may have seen once and not again or a friend who may have moved away? This could be helped with a very basic social story saying something like on mondays, tuesdays, wed etc I go to school and i see my friends and my teacher mr ........ On saturday and sunday I stay at home with my mum and daddy etc and then use a visual calander to support this with the days of the week and pictures of who he will see on them days ie.e mon, tues wed etc school, tecaher, friends sat sun, family pic.

 

Having said all this though I think that it could be a case of something happening on a Friday that is causing your child anxiety which is causing him to have meltdown i.e. assembly or somthing similar.

 

Sorry for rambling on a bit but hope you get some answers soon. I would defo ask the school to look at what your son's time-table is for Fridays.

[kellyanne]

I wonder if this could be the case with your son, in the sense that he has an close relationship to the teacher and is scared that when he doesn't see him for a few days he may not see him again, has your son had this happen to him before a close friendship and then just suddenly not seen the person again, i.e. relative who lives far away that he may have seen once and not again or a friend who may have moved away? This could be helped with a very basic social story saying something like on mondays, tuesdays, wed etc I go to school and i see my friends and my teacher mr ........ On saturday and sunday I stay at home with my mum and daddy etc and then use a visual calander to support this with the days of the week and pictures of who he will see on them days ie.e mon, tues wed etc school, tecaher, friends sat sun, family pic.

 

Having said all this though I think that it could be a case of something happening on a Friday that is causing your child anxiety which is causing him to have meltdown i.e. assembly or somthing similar.

 

Sorry for rambling on a bit but hope you get some answers soon. I would defo ask the school to look at what your son's time-table is for Fridays.

 

 

Please don't apologise for rambling it's fine.

 

My sis lives away and only comes once in a blue moon!! the 2 of them, when she lived nearer, had a good relationship and also we have changed schools as we moved to a diff town but this was in April.

Maybe what you have explained is sort of what the TA was going on about as he wasn't too clear on it himself.

 

Kellyanne x x

[Karen A]

Hi Kellyanne.It sounds as though the TA has some understanding but has got confused.I do not think there is a specific label of 'opositional seperation behaviour'.

As others have suggested there is a type of difficulty with attachment and seperation -children with this area of difficulty may show it in being very oppositional and difficult at times of separation.It is regarded as being 'nomal' for example when younger children become cross when mum leaves nursery when the situation is new.If this happens in older children or is thought to be more prolonged or distressing than usual then a referal may be made to Camhs for an Assessment.Separation anxiety can arise for a variety of reasons including a child having an anxious temprament.Professionals do assess the difficulties in an appropriate manner and provide support.

However,I think from what I have read elsewhere that your child already has an AS Dx.

This is complicated but in simple terms a Dr will decide when assessing a child whether they have a Dx of AS or whether to Dx Attachment difficulties-it is either /or but not both.Anxiety in chidren with AS at times of separation and the behaviour that is demonstrated is part of the AS.

The TA may well know more about 'NT' separation anxiety and she may have been trying to be helpful.

Perhaps she may benefit from some specific AS training.Karen.

[Karen A]

Kellyanne.I have just posted before your last post.

I need to dash off but if you need anymore info then do ask.

[kellyanne]

"Hi Kellyanne.It sounds as though the TA has some understanding but has got confused.I do not think there is a specific label of 'opositional seperation behaviour'.

However,I think from what I have read elsewhere that your child already has an AS Dx.

This is complicated but in simple terms a Dr will decide when assessing a child whether they have a Dx of AS or whether to Dx Attachment difficulties-it is either /or but not both.Anxiety in chidren with AS at times of separation and the behaviour that is demonstrated is part of the AS."

 

Hi J does have anxious episodes (if thats the right way to put it) and i know that this goes with the AS, but I have never connected the anxiousness and the behaviur that goes with it to being separated from me.........

 

 

 

 

"The TA may well know more about 'NT' separation anxiety and she may have been trying to be helpful.

Perhaps she may benefit from some specific AS training.Karen.

 

 

This is quite worrying as the TA is in the class because of the other lad that has AS (and statement) and he says he's been trained to help AS children

[baddad]

Hi kelly anne -

 

While I've never heard the term before, behaviours can occur because of change, so it's not entirely impossible that the behaviour on Fridays is to do with the coming weekend. That doesn't, however, necessarily imply a sense of 'loss' about seeing the TA (that sounds a very arrogant assumption to come to IMO, but if they have a very good/strong relationship I guess it's possible(?)) - It could just as easily arise from a sense of relief at NOT seeing the TA for two days! Alternatively, it could be that your child feels a sense of release from other pressures that arise in school...

 

Behaviour towards you and your partner in the mornings -

Often 'we' get the brunt of our child's frustrations because we are the people they feel safest in venting those frustrations with. It applies to everyone - adult/child, ASD/NT... there's a song about it - 'you always hurt the one you love' (altogether now!)...

 

Final point:

 

its very suggestive that your child has an element of control over his behaviour, I dont like the title one bit

 

Personally, I think it's just as dangerous and potentially damaging to assume the opposite... Not saying that is the case here or even suggesting it - I couldn't possibly know - but each case has to be assessed on the evidence, rather than on any preconception that autistic children can or can't/do or don't/will or won't etc...

 

L&P

 

BD

[Karen A]

[.Anxiety in chidren with AS at times of separation and the behaviour that is demonstrated is part of the AS.

The TA may well know more about 'NT' separation anxiety and she may have been trying to be helpful.

Perhaps she may benefit from some specific AS training.Karen.

 

Hi again.Sorry I probably did not word that very well and confused you.

What I was attempting to say was that children with AS can become anxious because of difficulties in coping with different environments.Hence transitions can be difficult-not necessarily because of separation or loss but just because change is difficult.

The anxiety may be seen at times during the week or day when there is a change in routine and may be demonstrated in difficult behaviour but it not necessarily to do with separation.

To a professional who does not understand AS this may look like separation anxiety but it is slightly different.

I have a few ideas that may be helpful.

It is worth talking to school staff to check that there are no obvious issues in school that could be leading to anxiety.

A regular morning routine and plan for the morning may help and a written plan or picture cards for school routine could be useful.

We also use a home school communication book to try to pick up on changes in routine.

As others have said a Social Story focussed on going to school or coming home for the weekend may help too.

 

I agree with Baddad that it is unhelpful to assume that children with ASD will not be able to do particular things.

Rather the fact that a child has ASD needs to be taken into account when deciding how to best provide support.Karen.

[JsMum]

it is unhelpful to assume that children with ASD will not be able to do particular things.

Rather the fact that a child has ASD needs to be taken into account when deciding how to best provide support.Karen.

 

 

That is excellent in situations where a person who has some awareness of AS or special needs but to those who dont what I was meaning is that sometimes when J has behaved oppositional and aggression they say he can control himself better, he can talk to someone first or he can do as I ask the first time, but when they find he doesnt comply and be oppositional they assume that he has a level of control over his behaviour, that is what I ment in my sons case. sorry I didnt want to insinuate that AS kids cant do things, its just that opposistional reactions get a lot more negative responces and comments like yes you can do it, now do it.

 

I feel like I have upset you and badad with my asumption, and it was more the opposititional behaviour I was talking about not the AS/ASD

 

Sorry.

 

JsMum

[Karen A]

quote]I feel like I have upset you and badad with my asumption, and it was more the opposititional behaviour I was talking about not the AS/ASD

 

Sorry.

 

JsMum[quote

 

I don't think you have upset us ....we are not easily upset. <'>

We were just giving a different perspective.Karen.

[bid]

Hi Kellyanne

 

I think the TA has a little bit of knowledge about AS and maybe some other special needs, but is making things far too complex here!

 

My interpretation would be that it's just the change in routine: nothing more complicated than that, and certainly no other 'disorder'.

 

HTH

 

Bid (put the kettle on! )

[darky]

Hi there. I totally agree with others in that I think the TA is trying to understand but is reading too much of this, I have never heard of this either. Alot of our children have transition issues and the behaviour could be about a predictable reaction as much as anything else. I do think it is rather egotistical of the TA to suggest the behaviour could be because he wont be seeing her the weekend. The way I see it, is its possible that its the transition thats the issue and your son cant cope with the change of that and his behaviour is his way of having some control over what happens. None of this is your fault or your sons. <'> <'>

[kellyanne]

hi all, <'>

 

Thanx for all your replies,

It is all a lot clearer now, the TA did confuse me a bit . I do think it is down to transition, because we don't get half as much at weekends when we don't have to rush out of the door for school.

J really doesn't like change, so this really could explain alot of his upsets in the morning and on a friday afternoon.

I suppose that by Friday pm J is 'used' to being at school and has to cope with the change that tom isn't a school day.

 

KA x x

[Jadzia Dax]

I haven't heard of this term either and I don't feel it is helpful for this TA to use jargon. Are they trying to impress with their 'knowledge', I've encountered a few like this in the past. Perhaps you could ask where the TA got this term from. If this term had been used by a qualified health professional I'd give it more credence but as it is being used by someone employed to support your child I'd take it with a pinch of salt. As someone here also suggested extra training in ASD would also be helpful for this TA.

[Karen A]

Hi Kellyanne.I read your last post and remembered that for quite a while Ben found Friday pm difficult.We thought it was partly that Fri PM was less structured with ''Golden time'' also I think he was just tired and ready for the weekend.Karen.

[kellyanne]

Hi Kellyanne.I read your last post and remembered that for quite a while Ben found Friday pm difficult.We thought it was partly that Fri PM was less structured with ''Golden time'' also I think he was just tired and ready for the weekend.Karen.

 

 

do you know what I think you are probably right as today they were making christmas decorations and he has had a very unsettled day and that coupled with the fact that his new TA is not in the class this week doesn't help matters.

 

KA x x

[Karen A]

Hi Kellyanne.

It took a bit of detective work before we figured out what the problem with Fri was. <'>

I felt a bit sad about it really.Ben would try during the week to get to the zone for Golden time....and then hate it. Karen.