Disapplication from RE

[Valiant_Skylark]

In my ACE handbook it states that parents can have their child disapplied from RE, but it doesn't say exactly what section of what act allows for this. Can any of you clever lot tell me where, in law, it says this then? If anyone has a link to the exact section, I'd be very grateful. (I'm thinking of years 9 and above here.)

 

Many thanks,

 

VS

[Karen A]

Hi I have no idea which act allows for disapplication from RE.However I have come across the information before.My son attends a CofE primary school.I think that parents do have right to withdraw their child from RE if they have religious convictions that are not in keeping with the teaching of the christian faith.Karen.

[justamum]

A parent can withdraw their child from all/part of religious activities and not just for having different religious beliefs/convictions. If your child objects to religion, as mine does, I would withdraw them. You do not need to give a reason although the religious with try and extract one and try and make you feel guilty for it.

 

All I can say on the matter without upsetting some is that if you want respect for believing in your god then give respect for those that don't........

[Valiant_Skylark]

I've had a quick look at this:

 

http://www.dfes.gov.uk/disapply/disapp.shtml

 

but it seems a lot more complicated than the ACE handbook makes out?

 

Help.

 

VS

 

(Justamum, how, exactly, does one withdraw them for the reason you mention?)

[Valiant_Skylark]

I've also had someone e-mail me with the following, but, again, I'm not sure it is the right law for mainstream secondary schools?

 

ie s71 School Standards and Framework Act 1998 states:

 

"Exceptions and special arrangements etc.

71 Exceptions and special arrangements; provision for special schools

(1) If the parent of a pupil at a community, foundation or voluntary school requests that he may be wholly or partly excused?

(a ) from receiving religious education given in the school in accordance with the school?s basic curriculum,

(b ) from attendance at religious worship in the school, or

(c ) both from receiving such education and from such attendance,

the pupil shall be so excused until the request is withdrawn.

(2) In subsection (1)?

(a ) the reference to religious education given in accordance with the school?s basic curriculum is to such education given in accordance with the provision included in the school?s basic curriculum by virtue of section 352(1)(a) of the [1996 c. 56.] Education Act 1996, and

(b ) the reference to religious worship in the school includes religious worship which by virtue of paragraph 2(6) of Schedule 20 takes place otherwise than on the school premises.

(3) Where in accordance with subsection (1) a pupil has been wholly or partly excused from receiving religious education or from attendance at religious worship and the local education authority are satisfied?

(a ) that the parent of the pupil desires him to receive religious education of a kind which is not provided in the school during the periods of time during which he is so excused,

(b ) that the pupil cannot with reasonable convenience be sent to another community, foundation or voluntary school where religious education of the kind desired by the parent is provided, and

(c ) that arrangements have been made for him to receive religious education of that kind during school hours elsewhere,

the pupil may be withdrawn from the school during such periods of time as are reasonably necessary for the purpose of enabling him to receive religious education in accordance with the arrangements."

 

 

Help, which one gets a very anti-RE ASD teen out of RE?!

 

VS

[justamum]

VS, write a letter to the head teacher stating clearly that x is not to take part in religious activities or religious ceremonies. As I said you do not need to state a reason and religion is not one of those important NC lessons. The head, dependant on their convictions, will probably call you in for a meeting. This meeting will be to 'educate' you on the wisdom of their God. You do not need to attend this, but may be wise to...just watch the satanic clothing though it might upset them. My son upset them by a few choice words on things.....a young Darwin in the making.

 

I just wrote I wish to withdraw x from taking part in religious ceremonies, not multi cultural religious knowledge, as he is disillusioned with it and wishes to be agnostic. As his parent I am supporting him in his choice.

 

Don't know where you are in country but Scotland is bad for bible bashing the children

 

Oh they may also play the 'your putting you beliefs on the child'...well you are their parent you are entitled to and the same goes if you are Catholic, Christan, Muslin, Jewish or what ever. They are all imposing their beliefs on the child so why can't the unbelievers?

[madme]

This is an interesting thread. My Daughter (aspergers 7) aged 6 had a big argument with her scottish primary school teacher ( we are based in England) about religion. The school was not a church school. DD is very black and white and her special interest had been dinosaurs She told her in no uncertain terms what her views were. The teacher was very adamant that my DD had to respect others views- fair enough but there was no reciprocal respect for my daughter's views. She has since moved to a Cof E school who as they have quite a few muslim children appear to be more "open minded". She is loving the hymn singing and prayers (She informed me the other day that she would like to start going to church for that very reason)but still holds her views which as yet she has not told them - thank heavens. We chose the school for its educational and social input and because it has very clear rules and boundaries. We had worried whether we would need to ask for her to miss RE. Look forward to hearing what you find out as we may need this in the future. I will have a look at the books I have.

[Kathryn]

It's interesting to hear what happens in other schools - I had no idea some of them were still so prescriptive about RE. We live in a multicultural area and my son's school actively works to promote understanding of all the major religions, and does it very well, I think, and with great sensitivity.

 

Regarding religious instruction as oppiosed to teaching multicultural awareness, I believe it's the parents' role to impart their religion and traditions to their children (together with the place of worship they attend) and it's not the responsibility of schools. Having said that, as a practising Christian who's raised a confirmed agnostic, I obviously haven't done too well in that area (We have some lively debates in our house! ) It surprised me therefore when L chose to do RE as a GCSE option. She really found it stimulating.The emphasis was on looking at issues such as good and evil and there was no bias towards one particular religion. I think "core RE" which all pupils have to do, may be slightly different to the GCSE though. I think RE, badly taught by teachers who have no particular conviction, can be more damaging than not teaching it at all.

 

It's no secret that schools with a strong religious ethos are very successful, both academically and on the pastoral side. I think many parents want the firm boundaries which such schools provide, without embracing the faith which underpins them. Is this fair - can you have your cake and eat it?!

 

K x

[justamum]

I believe that RE should consist of all faiths and none, ie it should also be taught that some don't believe in a higher being. Then it should be up to the child, when they are old enough, to decide which if any faith they wish to follow.

[Kazzen161]

My boys don't do RE now they are in in Yr 10, so I presume it is not compulsory in Yr 10 and 11.

[justamum]

it's not compulsory in any year if the parents object

[LizK]

I personally would be very uncomfortable about removing a child from RE assuming the school is handling it correctly. It is important for children to learn about all faiths (including atheism) and to understand and respect that others hold different beliefs to them. I don't see how removing children can help in that. I think state schools are supposed to teach religion in a factual 'some people believe' sort of way though can well believe some don't. Faith schools by their very nature are going to teach that their particular religious dogma is fact but that is part and parcel of attending a faith school

 

Religion and ASD though? Such existential ideas go over my son's head, he needs things rooted in reality which religion is not. I'm not really sure how much if any religious education registers with my boy

 

Lx

[justamum]

I agree, and it's down to the parents personal choice on that one. However when my son was at school the Christan faith was 'taught' mainly, and still being, to the children in a very religious way. No it's not a Church School. Buddhism, which is not a religion but a way of life and Buddhist do not believe in a God and Buddha was not a god, was briefly touched upon and the children were told about the god Buddha!

Atheism is not taught, as it's not a religion (and sin). I don't think it should be Religious Education so much a lessons regarding many faiths and beliefs.

[Kathryn]

"All I can say on the matter without upsetting some is that if you want respect for believing in your god then give respect for those that don't........"

 

And vice versa, justamum.

 

Whilst I agree with you in principle about your right to choose whether or not your son participates in RE and/ or worship, I find the tone of some of your comments and sweeping assumptions about Christianity and Christians offensive. Particularly the following:

 

You do not need to give a reason although the religious will try and extract one and try and make you feel guilty for it.

 

 

The head, dependant on their convictions, will probably call you in for a meeting. This meeting will be to 'educate' you on the wisdom of their God. You do not need to attend this, but may be wise to...just watch the satanic clothing though it might upset them.

 

Kathryn

Edited March 13, 2008 by Kathryn

[justamum]

Well I apologise if you do but I am merely speaking from my own experience...

[Kathryn]

Well I apologise if you do but I am merely speaking from my own experience...

 

Maybe so, and I'm sorry you had such a negative experience with one particular school, but your comments were expressed as generalisations and I felt the tone was somewhat sneering.

[justamum]

one particular school

 

who said it was one? Not me.

 

But I am NOT going to get into a pointless religious arguement...those who wish to believe in their mythical being can do so, frankly I don't and won't be convinced either...end of!

[Karen A]

who said it was one? Not me.

 

But I am NOT going to get into a pointless religious arguement...those who wish to believe in their mythical being can do so, frankly I don't and won't be convinced either...end of!

 

Justamum...I do not question your choice to not believe in God and fully respect your personal view.However I find it very offensive that my faith is described as ''believing in a mythical being''.I happen to be a christian but believe that practicing believers in many different world faiths would find it very offensive indeed to have the focus of their belief described in such an ireverant tone.Karen.

[Kathryn]

Justamum...I do not question your choice to not believe in God and fully respect your personal view.However I find it very offensive that my faith is described as ''believing in a mythical being''.I happen to be a christian but believe that practicing believers in many different world faiths would find it very offensive indeed to have the focus of their belief described in such an ireverant tone.Karen.

 

What Karen said.

 

Nobody is starting a religious argument here, justamum - where do you get that idea from? We're not discussing the relative merits of our personal beliefs here. I think the subject of this thread is an interesting one to discuss - I have every sympathy with those who object to having the religious convictions of others forced on them, especially in schools.

 

The point is that you demand respect for your and your son's right not to believe in God or participate in worship and yet you are not according the same respect to others who do - as your last comment clearly demonstrates.

 

K

[Canopus]

Does anybody know the situation for SEN residential schools?

 

My residential school was not affiliated with any particular religion, but forced religion on the kids.. The head teacher was a Protestant Christian and RE lessons focused on practicing Protestant Christianity rather than learning about religions. It was compulsory to attend church services on a Sunday and this was even written into the school prospectus. There were no facilities for kids of other religions. I don't think there was any way for parents to disapply kids from religious activities and parents were not informed about religious matters when their kids started.

 

Was this legal?

[Karen A]

Canopus...I do not know how long ago you were at the school you mention and this is very significant.I am in my 40s...lots of things happened when I was at school that would not be recognised as good practice now.However those things certainly would not be classed as not legal at the time because SEN legislation and law was different .

I suspect the situation is probably similar regarding the teaching of RE.I know that assemblies and RE lessons have changed a lot in the last few years.

 

The other factor is whether the school was an independent school.Some independent schools have rules which parents agree to follow when they decide to enrole their child to attend.Karen.

[Canopus]

It was in the early 1990s and the school had operated a similar policy on religion / RE since the mid 1970s. The school was privately owned but state funded. Apart from the mention of attending church in the brochure, parents were not informed much about the RE policy.

 

The maths teacher found the school's policy on religion / RE cause for concern and mentioned that the school could be breaking the law.

[Karen A]

It was in the early 1990s and the school had operated a similar policy on religion / RE since the mid 1970s. The school was privately owned but state funded. Apart from the mention of attending church in the brochure, parents were not informed much about the RE policy.

 

The maths teacher found the school's policy on religion / RE cause for concern and mentioned that the school could be breaking the law.

 

 

As it was privately owned I am honestly not sure.It may well be the case that the school was able to have its own policy...even if unwritten because it was privately owned.They may not have been following good practice...but I don't know whether there would be a case for saying whether it was legal or not.Karen.

[Valiant_Skylark]

Oh dear! I didn't mean to cause people to fall out over this...

 

DS simply is v black and white over his beliefs (lack of beliefs) & has an unbelievably inflexible attitude to the study of RE, which spills over and then totally ruins all the other subjects that he would otherwise concentrate on were that RE study put to the side until he was more ready to understand it all (and what it means to other people). He has been withdrawn, with my consent, from RE topics in the past because, as one particular school put it, he had "an aversion" to the topic and it was felt that this was the best way to move him on generally.

 

We have made the decision to withdraw him from the Short Course GCSE (Yrs 9 and 10) and all peace has returned across the remaining curriculum.

 

Eventually submitted the following letter:

 

I am writing to ask that my son X be excused from both religious worship and religious studies with immediate effect as is my right under Section 9 (3) of the Education Reform Act 1988.

 

This seems to have been accepted by the school and we all move, gratefully, on.

 

Many thanks to those who offered help and support, including those who sent pms.

 

VS

[Kathryn]

Not your fault, Valiant skylark, and I think we were all broadly in agreement over the main issues.

 

It's good that you've been able to sort this out without any problems - I hope peace continues and I wish your son all the best with his GCSE course. It's a demanding time and the more stress that can be removed, the better!

 

K x

[julieann]

In my ACE handbook it states that parents can have their child disapplied from RE, but it doesn't say exactly what section of what act allows for this. Can any of you clever lot tell me where, in law, it says this then? If anyone has a link to the exact section, I'd be very grateful. (I'm thinking of years 9 and above here.)

 

Many thanks,

 

VS

Hi VS,

I support a pupil year 9 who has A/S and other learning difficulties. After a meeting with teachers, senco etc it was agreed that XXXX would be disapplied from Art. The reason was not because she can not draw anything recognisable. It was because she became so distressed that the other pupils could draw and she couldn't. If the distress caused by taking part in the subject is greater than any benefits achieved, as long as the subject is not a core subject (English, Maths, Science), at the schools discretion the pupil can be disapplied.

 

Also year 9 is options year and the pupils get to drop a lot of their subjects at the end of this year.

 

R.E. and History are two of the most difficult subjects for children on the spectrum because they cover the past, present, peoples feelings and imagination.

Hope this helps Julieann

[Kathryn]

R.E. and History are two of the most difficult subjects for children on the spectrum because they cover the past, present, peoples feelings and imagination.

 

These were always two of my daughter's favourite subjects: she picked them both for GCSE! She particularly liked the more philosophical aspects of RE.

 

K x

[Canopus]

Out of interest, does anyone's kids follow a religion other that Protestant or Catholic Christianity?

[warrenpenalver]

I can understand why schools persist with RE up to age 14, but i did resent being forced to waste one of my GCSE's on RE.

[zaman]

I'm an atheist, and my husband is a Muslim. Our kids go to a school which largely teaches Christianity, but with enough RE teaching about other religious beliefs to even out the balance (ish). There are a lot of things that our kids get taught that I don't necessarily believe in, but try to also teach them alternative ways at looking at things.