Stimming?

[thebuzzer]

I have read about this in a fiction book I am reading called 'Daniel isn't Talking'. The mum in the book explains stimming and that we all do it to a degree. My DS who is dx Aspergers quietly hums the star wars tune - very well in fact he is amazing at copying tunes - or other songs that take his fancy. Is this stimming? Is it ok to allow ASD children to do this? I ask because as per another of my posts, the LSA trained in Lovass is telling the school he should not be allowed to do it so now they say to him "S**, noises!" or just "noises" and he has to stop if he doesn't - sometimes he gets distressed and growls at them, they say "right out of the class" and he has to leave, sometimes forcibly removed. He is not doing this humming noisily and if anything it keeps him focused and calm. But, the LSA has said to me that anything 'autistic' has to be stopped. Now that I have read up on Lovaas I see where this is coming from as that is their whole ethos.

 

How much do mainstream schools have to allow or make allowances for autisic behaviours, if you get my meaning.

 

Opinions and advice needed!

 

Happy Easter by the Way!!!!!!

 

Clare

[Mumble]

the LSA has said to me that anything 'autistic' has to be stopped.

:o

 

I am totally, totally, shocked That's taking away his personality and probably a source of stress relief, and is hence likely to increase meltdown behaviour.

 

They should be looking at when he stims and why and giving him alternatives if there is a problem that could cause further problems in future - so if he's disturbing other children with his stimming or hurting himself or others he needs a different release and needs to be helped to find this, but if his stims are not disturbing others or hurting anyone then the problem is the people who have a problem.

 

I have various stims - it helps to 'ground' me and connect me with the world, and to help me cope with high levels of stress. Mostly these are not noticeable to others but even the ones that are don't cause anyone a problem unless they want to have a problem with them. If I was told to stop one whilst I was doing it it would lead to incredibly high stress levels. It's like being told - "don't think of an elephant" - the first thing you make a mental picture of is an elephant and it's really difficult not to think of an elephant.

[pookie170]

Hey Clare,

 

I've read this book and thoroughly enjoyed it, but can see that the Lovaas method might not be up everyone's street. I do recall watching a documetary about a little boy going through the Lovaas program, it was 40+ hours a week of work for him but he was allowed half an hour at the end of the day to unwind and be himself- in other words the stimming was not repressed at that time.

 

I don't actually see the point in an LSA enforcing a little bit of Lovaas methods if he isn't following the programme? I think he might get very confused by it. On the other hand, my little lad (NT) sings and hums all the time, and does so in the classroom when he's working-I do it too, in fact- and he is having to learn that this is inappropriate in the classroom just as I had to. It probably does come under stimming, and I agree that everyone does it to an extent, we just call them habits, usually. That's my opinion, anyway. Some of my AS sons stims I can trace back to me as I do similar things but not to the degree that he takes them, so I don't know if it's learned or genetic!

 

But what makes this LSA think that he/she has the right to tell you, the Mother for crying out loud, that autistic behaviours must be stopped? Its up to you if you put your son onto the Lovaas program or not.

Maybe you should meet with the school and discern if your sons humming is distacting others,as if this is the case then I suppose they have to help him learn to control it? But if its not, then I don't see a problem.

 

Don't know if I've muddied the waters further but you got my opinion anyway!

 

And Happy Easter to you too!

 

Esther x

[Janey]

the LSA has said to me that anything 'autistic' has to be stopped.

Hi Clare

 

I agree with Mumble, I think thats a really awful thing to say.

 

Toby stims quite alot, lots of hand flapping and noises. They have changed over the years from rocking to watching his hands making movements. His favourite is quite an odd spectacle and he has learnt where and when he can do it. Quite often he will come home from school and just flap around his bedroom for a while. I wouldn't dream of taking this release away from him.

 

I've not heard of Lovass so I can't comment there but my opinion is our children have enough of a hard time fitting in at school without having their comforts taken away as well.

 

Janey, off to look up Lovass now!!!

[bid]

I have read about this in a fiction book I am reading called 'Daniel isn't Talking'. The mum in the book explains stimming and that we all do it to a degree. My DS who is dx Aspergers quietly hums the star wars tune - very well in fact he is amazing at copying tunes - or other songs that take his fancy. Is this stimming? Is it ok to allow ASD children to do this? I ask because as per another of my posts, the LSA trained in Lovass is telling the school he should not be allowed to do it so now they say to him "S**, noises!" or just "noises" and he has to stop if he doesn't - sometimes he gets distressed and growls at them, they say "right out of the class" and he has to leave, sometimes forcibly removed. He is not doing this humming noisily and if anything it keeps him focused and calm. But, the LSA has said to me that anything 'autistic' has to be stopped. Now that I have read up on Lovaas I see where this is coming from as that is their whole ethos.

 

How much do mainstream schools have to allow or make allowances for autisic behaviours, if you get my meaning.

 

Opinions and advice needed!

 

Happy Easter by the Way!!!!!!

 

Clare

 

The LSA's comments just show she knows nothing of value about autism I think this sums up just about evertything I dislike about Lovaas/ABA.

 

Sometimes it might be appropriate to gently divert a particular stim, e.g. a pocket torch instead of turning the room lights on and off repeatedly, or if a child is maybe picking their hands raw, and so on...

 

But other than that, stims should be left alone, IMO.

 

I was an LSA for a while to a little girl with severe autism in a mainstream class, and her singing and humming, etc, were just accepted as part of who she was with no problems at all.

 

You don't have to accept this attitude from the LSA, the class teacher or the school as a whole.

 

Bid

[purplehaze]

the LSA has said to me that anything 'autistic' has to be stopped.

 

 

Hello, I am soooooo mad by this,

 

I have a son with ASD and work with younger children with ASD and I wouldn't dream of stopping them doing everything 'autistic'. IMHO, distracting, encouraging and praising YES but what the LSA said is a no no. I wonder if they would say

'anything Torettes has to be stopped'

'anything disabled has to be stopped'

'anything visually impaired has to be stopped'

 

Well you know what i'm trying to say. Yes it's right that you wouldn't want a child to stimmer allday, but a trained person would relise it isn't that easy.

 

If an LSA had said that to me.............

[LizK]

But, the LSA has said to me that anything 'autistic' has to be stopped. Now that I have read up on Lovaas I see where this is coming from as that is their whole ethos.

 

How much do mainstream schools have to allow or make allowances for autisic behaviours, if you get my meaning.

 

Clare

 

That makes me so sad and so angry . Typifies the worst of ABA for me too. Autism isn't something that can be superficially eradicated or fixed and to attempt to do so is cruel IMO. Your son may be stimming for a reason, maybe because he's anxious or because it relaxes him, because it's sensory. The noises or stim may be a signal that he is anxious or may be fulfilling a useful need. Distracting or diverting if it becomes overwhelming may be appropriate, finding out why he is stimming even better

 

My son is in mainstream with 1-2-1 and never once has his LSA or teacher consciously tried to stop his autism. His autism is taken into account of every day. He has a special cushion to sit on, a box of fiddle toys, a chewy tubes to chomp on (his stim), allowed ear defenders at noisy times, a class buddy each day, taken out for relaxation sensory sessions at least once a day. Certain things have been changed in the classroom as a whole to accomodate his needs and I feel the school takes his autism seriously and makes appropriate allowances. For example most of the teachers now know that before they blow a whistle in the playground to warn him so he can cover his ears. That is different to making excuses for his behaviour which they do not, there are firm boundaries and expectations, poor behaviour is dealt with appropriately but since school have worked with his autism rather than against it his behaviour is not longer a problem

 

It doesn't have to be how you have described. Has your LEA got an Autism Outreach team that you or the school can access as they sound in need of some serious direction

 

Lx

[Lucas]

Lovaas' theory on self-stimulation was proven false in his own work time and time again, yet he continued insisting 'Autistic behaviours' were maladaptive and interfered with development. He even managed to remove the gifts from a Savant by not allowing them to stim, you would have thought that was proof enough that not only were the stims not hindering development, they were neccessary for development.

 

The discouragement of stims in institutions is largely what is attributed to the historical mental disintergration of Autistics who are put in instutions. This Lovaas-trained person is playing a dangerous game not based on evidence but behavioural ideology.

[Tally]

I also have reservations about Lovaas therapy, but I think the way it is being carried out here is even more of a problem.

 

If he does not enjoy school, they may actually be rewarding the behaviour by removing him from the class.

 

It sounds as though the situation is escalating every time they follow this course of action.

 

Applying this therapy just because the LSA is trained in it is very short-sighted. Is there any evidence that your son is progressing as a result?

 

I don't think that excluding him from his education is an appropriate way to treat a child who is exhibiting behaviours consistent with his diagnosis. I think you should look into whether this might be considered Disability Discrimination, which is a criminal offence.

[purplehaze]

a chewy tubes to chomp on (his stim)

 

Hello LizK,

 

can I just ask so is chewing things classed as a stim? I always thought my son (ASD 14) didn't have any stims, but he has always chewed things, school jumpers cuffs were always ripped to Shreds, (although it has got better over the years) no one ever mentioned to me it could be ASD stim behaviour!

 

More recently he has been biting/chewing things in a nonagressive way (doors, my head, body parts, clothing etc), there has been alot of problems with school and I have put it down to this.

 

I'm really interested to find out more about this so if anyone could help I would appreciate it.

 

Sorry for changing the subject on this thread X

[LizK]

Hello LizK,

 

can I just ask so is chewing things classed as a stim? I always thought my son (ASD 14) didn't have any stims, but he has always chewed things, school jumpers cuffs were always ripped to Shreds, (although it has got better over the years) no one ever mentioned to me it could be ASD stim behaviour!

 

More recently he has been biting/chewing things in a nonagressive way (doors, my head, body parts, clothing etc), there has been alot of problems with school and I have put it down to this.

 

I'm really interested to find out more about this so if anyone could help I would appreciate it.

 

Sorry for changing the subject on this thread X

 

I've seen it referred to as an oral stim. My son chews for a variety of reasons. There is a definite sensory component to it, his is undersensitive to touch in general and I think some of his chewing is sensory seeking for tactile input to his mouth. There is a definite anxiety component to it as well, worse if he is stressed. He has knocked a tooth out by chomping on something inappropriate anad only this morning was chewing on his brothers toy belt and I heard something in his mouth go crack The number of toys that have been mangled because he has chewed them too without realising. I try to put a chewy tube or electric toothbrush within his grasp whenever I can to avoid less ideal objects being chomped upon!

 

Lx

[purplehaze]

I've seen it referred to as an oral stim. My son chews for a variety of reasons. There is a definite sensory component to it, his is undersensitive to touch in general and I think some of his chewing is sensory seeking for tactile input to his mouth. There is a definite anxiety component to it as well, worse if he is stressed. He has knocked a tooth out by chomping on something inappropriate anad only this morning was chewing on his brothers toy belt and I heard something in his mouth go crack The number of toys that have been mangled because he has chewed them too without realising. I try to put a chewy tube or electric toothbrush within his grasp whenever I can to avoid less ideal objects being chomped upon!

 

Lx

 

Thanks Liz, this has deffinately made me think differently about his biting/chewing and I will be looking into it further. My son is sensitive to touch and rarely lets me cuddle him, only wears specific clothing, but likes certain fabrics close to his skin such as fleece blankets etc. I think it is a sensory/tactile/anxiety thing. X

[biff]

Can someone explain briefly for me what stimming is? I have never heard the Doctors mention this.

[Kathryn]

From the NAS glossary:

 

Stimming

 

Stimming is a word commonly used by parents and professionals for the self-stimulatory behaviour shown by some people with autism. Such behaviour is also sometimes referred to as stereotypic behaviour or stereotypy. It can take different forms and involve the stimulation of different senses, for example staring at an object in motion or a light, rocking back and forth, vocalising or making repetitive noises, hand flapping or spinning round.

[peaches]

Thank you for the above definition. I didnt know what it meant either.

 

Our 5 year old tends to put a lot of things in his mouth, toys especially. He also likes to lick the car window. Are these things stimming?

[jb1964]

I recall during my daughters assessment that they explained these kind of things as a variation of the same things that lots of people do when they are stressed, worried, anxious or happy etc.

 

Like chewing the tops of your pens, biting your nails, curling your hair round your fingers, twiddling with jewellery etc - but of course these kinds of things are not so noticable as rocking back and forth or humming etc.

 

My daughter does various things - including clicking her fingers by her ears and I do recall a while ago she said a teacher asked her to stop doing it when she was in class but she couldn't stop herself - I was worried it would become a big issue but she hasn't mentioned it since.

 

Take care,

Jb

[kirstie]

I too am shocked that the School has taken this approach with your Son. It seems totally wrong to me. I know very little about Lovaas but still, i think it is a very harsh and probably unrealistic approach to try to discourage Autistic behaviours. Afterall his Autism makes him who he is- it's part of him. It sounds rather victorian IMO.

 

My Son also spins around now and then, and flaps his fingers (i noticed this was when he was feeling particularly nervous, a person he had never met before was talking to him ) and the light switches, oh my word he does this over and over along with the TV button and plug socket switching them off and on constantly. I had thought this was more like one of his 'fixations' as he seems perfect;ly happy before and when he's doing it i hadn't realised this was a stim!

[Shnoing]

If you [AS] have a given amount of information to proceed, you will do a certain amount of stimming - depending on how your AS "condition" is like. You just cannot help it. Some persons on the spectrum are able to delay their stimming until they are in a "safe area" (usually at home). Therefore, if your son suppresses his stimming at school, the amount of stimming at home will increase. One way around that problem is to try to choose a kind of stim that is socially more acceptable.

(I used to tilt my chair at school and rock [a bit] on it - fortunately that has been accepted over years)

[thebuzzer]

Thank you for all your replies. I am having problems with my internet connection so have only just been able to read them all.

 

Reading some of the replies my 'stim' - although I am not autistic so at DS's school would be allowed to do it! - is to twirl my hair around my finger or fiddle with my rings - I am 37 and will keep doing it as it calms me down

 

Just as an update I am having a meeting on Thursday as Ds was excluded 2 weeks ago for the pm. I am putting in writing to the Head my concerns over the way they are dealing with DS, that they are only taking advice from the LSA trained in Lovaas and not the Inclusion Officer who is far more 'in tune' with the way we all seem to want to help people with ASD. Also, what I feel will help DS. I have been advised to do this by the Children and Young Peoples Services team at the LEA who I went off on a rant to this pm.

 

If this continues I will be asking my GP to sign DS off sick so that the LEA have to provide a home tutor while we get this sorted .I hope it doesn't come to this. Anyone have any experience of this?

 

Thanks Buzzer

[bid]

If this continues I will be asking my GP to sign DS off sick so that the LEA have to provide a home tutor while we get this sorted .I hope it doesn't come to this. Anyone have any experience of this?

 

Thanks Buzzer

 

Yes, my son had home tutors when he was out of school with a breakdown, before going to a residesi special school for AS.

 

I know at least a couple of other people here have had or have home tutoring.

 

Bid

[Tisha]

I wasn't diagnosed until way into adulthood but when I said that I paced and had tried not to by making myself sit back down in the chair, the psychologist told me to allow myself to stim if I noticed I was doing it. The damage done by making us conform can sometimes go inside and come out years later as suicidal feelings etc., so this is clearly a bad thing to over-control in this way. It makes me quite sad actually.

[MichelleW]

NT adults chew finger nails, tap pencils, fiddle, doodle etc. but no-one would dream of telling them to stop what they did. Adults may try to tell NT children to stop doing things such as chewing their nails etc - (I know my mum did!) but with ASD stimming is usually indicative of something. J used to spin things or himself either when very excited and happy, or when really stressed.

 

At school (in reception year) the TA was trained in LOVAAS and came on the Early bird plus course and divulged that she didn't agree with the LOVAAS method, saying it was harsh. Her way of dealing with J's stimming was to try to limit it when in assembly, or provide an alternative when in class (like a little squidge ball to keep in his trouser pocket). But as soon as he came out of class at hometime he was spinning all over the place! And I let him release his energy.

 

The only time I stopped him was when he either flapped or spun something close to my face, or when he stared getting more forceful with his "patting" me. But then I just said for him to spin somewhere where there is no people.

 

Fortunately J doesn't chew - but if he did, I'd find him something safe to chew on!