Friendships, aquintances, mates, colleagues etc

[warrenpenalver]

Hello! again.

 

This is a question thats bothered me for years really. Ive never really been sure what the boundarys are. And i mean accross the board of social contact. Ive seen the "circles of friendship" diagrams they give children for knowing who you should hug, cuddle, shake hands etc but thats a bit too simple for me and only covers basic stuff.

 

MY experience of social circles has mainly been limited to the military social world and the odd forum based friendship.

 

And this is what is confusing to me, in the forces everyone is your "mate" and also work colleague, but i also have some civilians who call me "mate"?? erm confused.

 

Also what is acceptable discussion topics between mates/friends?? Maybe there are special rules in the navy, but it seems people i really dont know very well seem to randomly talk about sexual stuff in quite gross detail. Is this typical of all males or unique to the forces? I notice they do it in front of woman too which shocks me. I thought it was typical for men to embelish thier escapades in front of thier mates but isnt that rude to do that infront of woman?? or am i being too traditional or "square"???

 

And how does it work with physical contact?? Is it normal for blokes to punch each other jokingly or play fight??

 

Also in terms of social greetings when do people shake hands or hug etc?? i know some close male friends do wierd "manly" hugs and in formal situations people shake hands but how do the rules work between male freinds hugging female friends?? it seems a complete mystery to me both from observing others and also with my friends. A lot of them hug me when we meet then seemingly randomly they dont and then im confused as to whats happening. I just tend to copy the other person.

 

My last CPN/therapist said that i didnt have any friends but aquintances because i lack the outward emotional bond found in friendships. I was upset with this and confused!??! Am i supposed to be crying or laughing all the time with friends then??? Arent friendships about what you do rather than just emotions??? Is the fact i would literally do almost anything to help my friends not enough commitment to make them a friend???

 

A very confused Warren!!!!

:robbie: :robbie: :robbie:

[owl]

Hello! again.

 

This is a question thats bothered me for years really. Ive never really been sure what the boundarys are. And i mean accross the board of social contact. Ive seen the "circles of friendship" diagrams they give children for knowing who you should hug, cuddle, shake hands etc but thats a bit too simple for me and only covers basic stuff.

 

MY experience of social circles has mainly been limited to the military social world and the odd forum based friendship.

 

And this is what is confusing to me, in the forces everyone is your "mate" and also work colleague, but i also have some civilians who call me "mate"?? erm confused.

 

Also what is acceptable discussion topics between mates/friends?? Maybe there are special rules in the navy, but it seems people i really dont know very well seem to randomly talk about sexual stuff in quite gross detail. Is this typical of all males or unique to the forces? I notice they do it in front of woman too which shocks me. I thought it was typical for men to embelish thier escapades in front of thier mates but isnt that rude to do that infront of woman?? or am i being too traditional or "square"???

 

And how does it work with physical contact?? Is it normal for blokes to punch each other jokingly or play fight??

 

Also in terms of social greetings when do people shake hands or hug etc?? i know some close male friends do wierd "manly" hugs and in formal situations people shake hands but how do the rules work between male freinds hugging female friends?? it seems a complete mystery to me both from observing others and also with my friends. A lot of them hug me when we meet then seemingly randomly they dont and then im confused as to whats happening. I just tend to copy the other person.

 

My last CPN/therapist said that i didnt have any friends but aquintances because i lack the outward emotional bond found in friendships. I was upset with this and confused!??! Am i supposed to be crying or laughing all the time with friends then??? Arent friendships about what you do rather than just emotions??? Is the fact i would literally do almost anything to help my friends not enough commitment to make them a friend???

 

A very confused Warren!!!!

:robbie: :robbie: :robbie:

 

 

Hi Warren, have just seen yr post and i must say i was very moved by what you said, as you have stated very eleoquently the exact problem my own son has, only he would never recognise it or put it into words as you have, because he denies it. The thing about 'mate' i s simply that you are used to the word only in a certain context, ie the army, but that it can be used in several contexts, as with much of our language. I wouldn't worry about it, just remember that 'mate' to civvys is just a casual term which can be used simply as a friendly greeting , even to someone you hardly know, or don't know at all, (such as a delivery man) you might say, for example, 'morning mate, lovely day isn't it?' as he delivered yr milk/groceriess or what ever. You also can use 'mate' to a very good friend, or to some one who is a stranger, for example whose arm you knock into in the pub 'sorry mate!' I would really like to help, so i hope none of what i say is patronising to you.

(I would be upset if I accidently did that, mate!)

 

As for the question of acceptable conversation topics, you're right, it is normal for young men to talk about sexual stuff when they are in groups out together, etc, but the rules about saying those kind of things in front of women, and levels of crudity are dependent upon ones own set of morals or standards of personal behaviour. An awful lot of people would agree exactly with you about crude sexual talk in front of women. And yes, it may be a little 'old fashioned' by today's standards, but standards have declined . We are, unfortunately, living in a society where it's some kind of achievement to sleep with about 30 different people.You are not alone though, lots of people are shocked by this, it's just that we don't talk about these things much.Just dont' take part if you're not comfortable. My son feels the same way as you.

The hug thing is simpler. When you are friends or family, sometimes you hug, sometimes you don't!

You might hug for example if you've had a particularly fun time together, or if you've shared problems together on that day. There are no hard and fast rules, which is what can make things difficult to decipher.

Re your therapist, It'snot really for me to comment, but i guess that perhaps she didn't really explain it too well. I'm sure that you are a very good supportive friend, and that yr therapist was trying ( rather clumsily in my opinion) to outline specific difficulties that people with ASDs can face

with personal relationships, such as emotional depth. Did she give you any examples to help

clarify her comments? Anyway, I hope this has been of some help, very best wishes, OWL

[Tally]

I have much the same problem. Part of the reason why I have so few friends is because I don't really know when to define someone as a friend, and don't do "friendly" things for fear that I have overestimated the other person's friendliness. Things get confusing too, because people often form friendships with work colleagues, and many couples meet at work. For example, I get on OK with some people at work, but I would be too afraid to suggest we go out sometime. If one of them suggested it, I would like to go. One of them recently lent me a DVD. You don't lend DVDs to people you don't trust, but I don't know whether that means we are friends, or just that he doesn't think I am a thief.

 

I think people often call each other "mate," even if they are not really a close friend. It's just a word that doesn't really mean anything, and you can also use it if you have forgotten someone's name.

 

I work in a male-dominated job, and they all talk quite graphically about sex, which is odd considering most of them aren't getting any. I think some women would be offended and so a lot of men would not talk like that in front of women. There are so few women where I work that they probably don't even think about it anyway. I think a woman who was easily offended probably would not join the forces, and so it is OK there, but you might have to be a bit more discreet in a civilian job.

 

With hugging, I think following the other person's lead is the best approach.

 

Footballers hug each other and grab each other's bums and things, but I think that most men don't really do that kind of thing.

[warrenpenalver]

An awful lot of people would agree exactly with you about crude sexual talk in front of women. And yes, it may be a little 'old fashioned' by today's standards, but standards have declined . We are, unfortunately, living in a society where it's some kind of achievement to sleep with about 30 different people.You are not alone though, lots of people are shocked by this, it's just that we don't talk about these things much.Just dont' take part if you're not comfortable. My son feels the same way as you.

I could understand a close couple saying such things openly but not work colleagues. maybe its a Forces thing as it seems a lot of men in the forces cheat on thier partners and there seems to be a unwritten rule that what happens while away stays away.

 

It is concerning when theres teenagers who aspire to being an underage mum and live off benefits!!! What happened to sex-ed at schools

 

MAybe i am a bit "square" compared to most!! I just get the impression that most men are perverts or b**tards and wonder how so many couples stay in a marriage for so long.

 

Re your therapist, It'snot really for me to comment, but i guess that perhaps she didn't really explain it too well. I'm sure that you are a very good supportive friend, and that yr therapist was trying ( rather clumsily in my opinion) to outline specific difficulties that people with ASDs can face

with personal relationships, such as emotional depth. Did she give you any examples to help

clarify her comments? Anyway, I hope this has been of some help, very best wishes, OWL

He didnt explain it well at all and didnt clarify or give any reasonable explanation when i asked other than im just "slow" when it comes to social skills and making different kinds of relationships.

 

I increasingly have little faith in anything that therapist said as he was even trying to get me to chat up a friend of mine and take her out on dates. you dont take friends out on dates unless you fancy them??!!??

 

He isnt sure about ASD's either initially saying i had emotionally unstable personality disorder (borderline type) which he then wanted to switch to schizoid personality disorder to which i then did my own research and disproved his theory because schizoids do not want or need close relationships where as i do yet lack the social skills to make them (or have just been unlucky ) so he changed his tact againand now im just depressed with "personality traits" what ever that means!!!

 

Maybe it doesnt help that i take things too literally and too personally!!

 

I have much the same problem. Part of the reason why I have so few friends is because I don't really know when to define someone as a friend, and don't do "friendly" things for fear that I have overestimated the other person's friendliness. Things get confusing too, because people often form friendships with work colleagues, and many couples meet at work. For example, I get on OK with some people at work, but I would be too afraid to suggest we go out sometime. If one of them suggested it, I would like to go. One of them recently lent me a DVD. You don't lend DVDs to people you don't trust, but I don't know whether that means we are friends, or just that he doesn't think I am a thief.

 

Thats similar to me. I dont know when people become friends until ive heard them say it. Often im not sure whats the difference between being nice and fair with a work colleague and being friendly so i tend to try and treat everyone the same. only problem is im well known to do anything for anyone and people take advantage and i dont find out till too late. Ive lost too many DVD's in the past execting work colleagues to be trustworthy so dont lend them anymore!!! and thats on a submarine of 150 people and 150m length sealed shut for 3 months so not like they can run away with them and its not a big place to loose them either!!!!!!!!

 

I work in a male-dominated job, and they all talk quite graphically about sex, which is odd considering most of them aren't getting any.

That made me laugh!! Thats exactly the type of comment i would come out with and say to thier faces!! I do like picking up on irony. One of the major bullies i had at work i eventually got my revenge when after months of picking on me because i was single saying single people should work the weekends so he could go home to his family i told him that"you chose to have kids while in the navy so if you dont like it you can leave" and then added " oh but your caught in the pension trap". he left me alone for a few weeks

 

Footballers hug each other and grab each other's bums and things, but I think that most men don't really do that kind of thing.

People might get the wrong ideas if i started doing that!!

[Shnoing]

May I recommend Marc Segar's Survival Guide? (I've linked to one of several sources)

[warrenpenalver]

ive looked at that link but it poses more questions than answers.

 

Its like im a few years behind socially even of that guide. Does that make sense??

[bid]

I know it sounds a bit trite, but I think you should just be yourself.

 

If you don't want to be 'blokey' and rude about women, then don't. You don't have to hug anyone if you don't want to, either.

 

I think that so long as you're friendly and polite, that should be fine

 

Bid <'>

[Shnoing]

...

MY experience of social circles has mainly been limited to the military social world and the odd forum based friendship.

 

And this is what is confusing to me, in the forces everyone is your "mate" and also work colleague, but i also have some civilians who call me "mate"?? erm confused.

 

Also what is acceptable discussion topics between mates/friends?? Maybe there are special rules in the navy, but it seems people i really dont know very well seem to randomly talk about sexual stuff in quite gross detail. Is this typical of all males or unique to the forces? I notice they do it in front of woman too which shocks me. I thought it was typical for men to embelish thier escapades in front of thier mates but isnt that rude to do that infront of woman?? or am i being too traditional or "square"???

 

And how does it work with physical contact?? Is it normal for blokes to punch each other jokingly or play fight??

As far as I know, NTs behave differently depending on whether tho other person belongs to the same group or not. Therefore, as long as both of you are military personnel, you are in the same group where certain norms and behaviors are applicable (calling each other 'mate', talking about sexual stuff [very 'military'], even in front of women [it's the same inside the police!], punching each other jokingly). These behaviors normally are unacceptable towards someone outside that specific group. It's also a way of defining the group boundaries.

Also in terms of social greetings when do people shake hands or hug etc?? i know some close male friends do wierd "manly" hugs and in formal situations people shake hands but how do the rules work between male freinds hugging female friends?? it seems a complete mystery to me both from observing others and also with my friends. A lot of them hug me when we meet then seemingly randomly they dont and then im confused as to whats happening. I just tend to copy the other person.

Oddly, whether male and female friends usually hug each other depends mainly on the region where they live. There are different rules for France and Britain, for example. You'll have to look what works where you live. It's a bit like a biology project.

My last CPN/therapist said that i didnt have any friends but aquintances because i lack the outward emotional bond found in friendships. I was upset with this and confused!??! Am i supposed to be crying or laughing all the time with friends then??? Arent friendships about what you do rather than just emotions??? Is the fact i would literally do almost anything to help my friends not enough commitment to make them a friend???

This sentence about the acquaintances is just a quote from a book. It need not fit on your case. For Aspies, frienships are about what you are prepared to do (even to risk) for each other. For NTs, the most important thing is to share news and gossip (brutally generalizing here, of course ). NTs strengthen their friendship just by talking to each other, no matter if they have something to say. Now guess why NTs need tabloid papers - my answer: to have something unimportant to talk about for the day, no matter if it's true.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Shnoing

[Shnoing]

I've just laid hands upon : Kate Fox, Watching the English - The hidden Rules of English Behaviour. Perhaps that's what you're looking for?

[warrenpenalver]

good idea! might be worth a read!! then i can practice.

[ScienceGeek]

I've just laid hands upon : Kate Fox, Watching the English - The hidden Rules of English Behaviour. Perhaps that's what you're looking for?

 

Oooh! I read that a few years ago. I found it rather interesting.