bit of a teary grumble!

[Flora]

I'm looking after a friend's son for a few days this week while she's at work.

 

She stopped for a cup of tea yesterday when she picked up her son, and I was telling her about Ben's end of KS2 SAT results. This evening she stopped again for a cuppa and then told me that she'd received her son's school report. He's just finished year 5 and they had done the optional SATs. She said 'I'm not very pleased with it really, he only got two level 4's and a level 3'.... ONLY? he's only just going into the final year of KS2 this September......... and she tells me this 24 hours after I'd told her about Ben being disapplied from the maths SAT and getting level 3's in English and Science... I said to her that she should be really pleased that her son had done so well and I couldn't understand why she thought he hadn't. She looked all please and smug and I sat there shuffling in my seat and couldn't wait for her to go and had to use every ounce of self control not to just burst into tears. I never said a word about how I felt because hey I didn't want to hurt her feelings. But I feel like she's just rubbed my nose in a great big pile of poo and I'm so very very upset. Upset doubly because I've told her in the past how much it hurts when other people go on and on and on and on and on about their child's acheivements when yours are struggling with the simplest of things.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge anyone being proud of their child doing well, but why don't people have some tact and consideration in their timing, or in how they tell you these things?

 

I am never ever disappointed or ashamed in Ben; he's an absolutely lovely boy and full of character... BUT...Obviously there's somewhere inside my head that is still 'sore' and tonight this lady just touched on that sore bit. I'm not angry, just very very tearful and hurt, mainly because I thought she knew better.

 

edited to add: Just wanted to stress here... I love to hear of kids doing well, and people sharing good news. It wasn't the fact that her son is obviously doing very well accademically that upset me... I'm pleased for them both... it was the way she told it... and the fact that she knows that even though he's a year younger than my son, and that he got higher grades in the same test one year before he'll take the actual SATS than my son; and then the adding that she thought it wasn't good enough. Hope this makes sense.

 

Flo'

Edited July 31, 2008 by Flora

[zaman]

<'>

Yes, it hurts.

[baddad]

People just don't think, do they?

They'll sit and watch something on TV about AS (or any other disability) and make all the "right", sympathetic noises (which is even more infuriating, because you don't want them to sympathise - just to try to understand and accept), but when it comes to applying that to kids they KNOW or kids they see around them every day it just doesn't happen...

 

Sats are a load of old.... Some of our kids will get there (probably later, but what's the rush) and some won't, but the important things mostly have very little to do with school at all.

 

<'>

[Kathryn]

Flora,

 

<'> <'> <'>

 

Oh wow, yes I do know this kind of feeling so well - had my face rubbed in other young people's achievements for so long I should be immune to it by now, but I'm not.

 

I had to brace myself when L's peers did their GCSE's - especially when the ex school unthinkingly sent us an invitation to the end of GCSE celebration for her year group, completely disregarding the fact that she had never done them and she was out of school with a breakdown, how's that for a kick in the teeth? Then I had to steel myself when her peers did their A levels, and this last year I've had to grit my teeth while they all went off on their gap year or started their first year at Uni. All this while L is still taking baby steps on a basic skills college course and still finding it tough. The fact that she did keep up with them for so long makes it worse somehow.

 

I give parents of other older teens a wide berth nowadays. It's not their fault - of course they're delighted with their child's achievements and want to share as their child ticks off another milestone or notches up another qualification.. But it doesn't half hurt. Especially in this blasted high achieving pushy town I have the misfortune to live in.

 

K x

[JsMum]

Hi, J was diaplied for English due to his reading impairments, and he gained a level 3 for maths and science, and the stress and pressure caused J to have major behavioral difficulties and anxieties at home, I had to physically drag J in for his second science paper, I had to give him a firemans lift, while he sat the test I sat in the reception and waited, otherwise he wouldnt of done it.

 

The pressure is massive, the lengths some schools are going to get year 5 and 6 to gain level 5 and above is extream some schools are offering science school and maths school during the summer holidays, I wonder how children feel as well if there best isnt apriciated by there parents, if that is some way displayed how that can effect there self esteem, not saying your friend has displayed her displeasure to your friends son, but kids can pick up these things with out a word been spoken, many kids are pushed too hard, the extreams aproaches could cause irreversable consequences, sats are now reguarded as important as GCSEs, the expectations are just too much for a 10/11 yr old to bare.

 

It is very upsetting and I understand how in some way your friend has been quite subtle in her aproach to you, I do think you should share how you feel though with her, keeping this to yourself will be very difficult to prevent further conversations repeating.

 

Friendships are sure hard sometimes.

 

 

JsMum

[smiley]

Yup - know that one, bloomin' hurts <'> >< <'>

[pearl]

Know how you feel Flo <'> and yes it is harder when its someone you thought understood ....

[Bard]

<'>

 

Yes, some parents are not happy with their children's results until they know where in the ranking of the class they came.

The ones who are trying to give me a mouthful about a child in my class they dislike, and when I mention something the child is fantastic at, they look like they've eaten tinfoil.

 

I've often had a slightly different problem.

I've had people p*ssed off when B has done very well academically. Because he shouldn't be able to if he's got special needs.

They want the 'Ah bless' factor. They want someone to patronise, and a teacher they can feel sorry for, so they can be smug about their own child.

So they see B's work, a poem, a drawing or a piece of geography homework at a higher level than their own child and the bile chokes them. They start trying to dig for flaws and faults and suggest that he's had 'help'

They're not worth spitting on Flora, people who can only feel they have status if they are standing on someone else's hopes.

I wonder what her son is like? More thoughtful and aware than her? It's often the case.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Bard

[Flora]

Bard,

 

He's a really nice kid, and isn't without difficulties (which I obviously won't detail here because it's not my story, so to speak... but lets just say... she wouldn't be out of place on this forum!). The thing that made this incident all the more upsetting is that I have supported and advised her about getting help for the difficulties he has and quite frankly carried her through a very difficult period of adjustment. I can see exactly why she felt the need to say these things, because she herself has worried about her son's development but when she says she's not happy with such good results, it makes you wonder what sort of yard stick she's using! I have a huge amount of respect for her because with the difficulties he has she does a really good job with him and works hard with him, and it's a huge achievment for him to achieve those results. However, that's why it was particularly hurtful coming from her, because she really really should have known better.

 

Btw, I love that description '...like they've eaten tinfoil'

 

Flora

ps... thanks to everyone for your replies. It's a stinker that we have to learn to put up with this sort of thing isn't it?

[Enid]

When I was at school it was the 11 plus, the pressure was incredible, as if you passed you went to grammer school, if you failed to comprehensive, so your life mapped out at 11!!!!! also I was one of 5, we all passed, but the pressure was on! I can still remember clearly sitting on top of the stairs and seeing that brown envelope that, as I thought at the time, would define my life forever, god if only I knew! but we used to take old exam papers every day for practice, and it was a MAJOR milestone in our lives, so I can empathise with the kids today taking SATS. and the parents! My DS was excluded at the time so wasnt even disapplied! Enid.

[Sallya]

Flora,

<'>

I was in a similar situation recently; my son wasn't entered in the sats, but he is classroom assessed, and his levels are mainly 2's - that's lower than the yr 4's- so it was really hard when his friend with AS got 4's, and the mum was upset he'd got a 3 from the teacher's assessment- but, she wasn't rubbing my nose in it, or being competitve, or trying to find out my son's levels in a snidey way, or being smug about her son- and I've helped her with a few bits- so , yes, understand why you're upset - and in this instance, I think I would say next time that you're upset about the way she's handled things - espec from someone who shouldn't be comparing or trying to make you feel bad because it makes her feel better- that's just plain nasty- at least - that's the way it's coming across -and if that's the case, I would let her know you are genuinely upset that she feels the need to do that to you- so next time she thinks a little more carefully- and it's not about comparing for you, but about feeling a little raw that Ben doesn't find it so easy. I've had to say something to different friends before, when they've either said how brilliantly their child is doing, and isn't it awful that my son's doing so badly and don't I mind?- or when their child had average levels and in the middle, how awful they were doing...they didn't realise that thay might have upset me, or touched on a sore spot.so it did make them think a bit more....I didn't mind.....they just needed to know because they didn't realise, and if I had just left it it would have happened again. Like you, I'm always chuffed if someone's child has done well- I like to hear how they're doing- but don't like pushy mums.

htms

s

xxx

[Suze]

<'> , Sorry flozzie.............I know you,ll find this difficult , but I,d try and have a word with her, you don,t even have to say that much , but just a small comment relating to the conversation yesterday and how sad you felt after wards.It might just make you feel better, get it off your chest as it were .

 

..........I,ve a friend with a son with difficulties etc.....................however he is an all singing all dancing academic super star, who the teachers adore , single out for talented gifted work shops etc..............you know the stuff.I have actually cried in front of her , as she has regailed me over my boy ,s tactless use of language to her son...........(he had a meltdown in front of her boy and shouted at him..not good I know but I thought she,d understand as her boy has problems)...............I,m afraid I have never felt as close to her as I once did after that .

[pearl]

It does hurt more when you expect folks to understand cos of their own problems. Sure I've posted this before, but I was shocked to the core once by a mum I'd grown quite close to. She'd asked me to speak to the teacher about her sons difficulties as I was Special Needs Governor, I duly did, & when the feedback wasnt to her liking she laid into me, saying, its ok for you with all the help your son is getting! Well excuse me but I never hid behind a SEN governors skirts, I fought for my lad unaided, go knock yourself out if you want that level of support! I too withdrew - felt I'd bared my soul to her.

[Flora]

I've decided to let it go. Having given it some thought, I'm convinced it is her own insecurities about her son that lie behind her comments. I'm very able to confront someone if I'm angry but I wasn't angry, I was sad, and I always find it hard to challenge people in that sort of situation, mainly because if something hurts my feelings I tend to think it's not their problem but mine (rightly or wrongly), whereas if someone makes me angry then (again rightly or wrongly) I blame them and feel justified in speaking up (what a loada waffle... hope it makes sense!).

 

Flora

[fiorelli]

Flora,

 

I totally understand where you are coming from. It isn't very nice to hear something like that only a day after you have shared your feelings over how well (or not as the case may be) your child has done.

 

Flora, I really don't mean to hurt your feelings with this, and I really hope that it doesn't as it isn't meant that way...

 

Everybody has hopes and dreams for their own children. I, myself have 4 children, and I have different hopes and dreams for each and every one of them. All coming from how well they are doing in school at the minute, what their personalities are like, who their friends are, what they can and what they can't do. I have a mental 'list' of grades that in an ideal world I would love my children to achieve, and again these are different for each child.

 

I am also friends with parents of other children in my sons' classes. They too have hopes and dreams for their own children.

 

When it comes to these end of year tests and reports, you raise your hopes and think of the best that your child can get. You can get (in my experience) one of 3 responses to the result -

 

indifference - an 'Oh well, you done the best you can' attitude

disappointment - an 'You could have done much better than that' attitude

exhilleration - an 'Oh my god - didn't you do very well' attitude.

 

each one is going to get a different set of reactions. You need to talk about them, and it is only natural that you should talk to your friends about them.

 

Flora, you spoke to your friend about how Ben done in his SATS. She sat there and listened to you. She waited until the next day until she discussed her child's SATS with you. I personally think she thought she was being thoughtful (she could have told you about her child the same day you were talking about Ben). I understand why you feel upset - really I do - because I feel the same when I compare L to his brothers, or to his peers, or to friends children. But I think part of a true friendship is accepting this - accepting that other people want to talk about their children, and their hopes and their fears. And that they shouldn't have to wait days, or weeks, or months before talking about it with you for fear of upsetting you. When they are upset/pleased about their child's achievements - whatever they may be, or however different they be from our own children's - they should have the right (as your friend) to discuss them too. Otherwise, what sort of friendship is it?

 

<'>

Fi xx

[Flora]

Hi Fiorelli

 

I'm not offended or upset by what you said one tiny bit

 

I agree in the most part with what you said, and if you look aback at my posts in the thread, I've said in a couple of instances, that I love to hear about kids doing well, it wasn't the fact she told me (she could have told me yesterday, it wouldn't have mattered), it was how. Also, when I was talking about Ben's results to her, I wasn't moaning about them or having a sobfest, I was actually very pleased that he'd managed to achieve what he did (considering his history) and was very upbeat about it, so there was no wall put up preventing her from talking about her son's results. I think perhaps after our conversation she went home and re-read his report so that she could compare his results with Ben's.

 

Really, I'm not some mealy mouthed bitter old moo who is sucking lemons over other kids' achievments My dd is gifted, and is predicted to get A and A* in all her GCSE's next year, she's also a very talented musician and artist, if I was wanting to compete or score points, I'd have talked about her instead. I certainly don't compare any of my kids, either with their siblings or with any others. I have edited to add too, that Bill, while having had huge difficulties and is now finally settled into special school, is doing very very well academically.

 

People who know me in RL, know that I'm not someone you have to tip toe round at all. I'm usually quite philosophical about these things, I just felt sad that's all, not angry as I've said.

 

Flozza

Edited August 1, 2008 by Flora

[fiorelli]

FLora, I am glad my post didn't upset you.

 

I read everything that you (and everyone else) posted. My post came from that. I understand that you listened to her. I understand that you got upset at how you perceived her to be boasting about the grades. But really, was she doing that? (If she was, and it was my friend, I'd be thinking whether she was a friend I wanted around me). I have a feeling that she'd be upset that you were sad (iywkim).

 

Like I said earlier, I have been there. Who on here hasn't been?!

 

<'>

Fi xx

[Flora]

I understand that you got upset at how you perceived her to be boasting about the grades.

 

Fiorelli, that's just it, I don't think she was boasting, I thought she was comparing. And as I said in my reply, I don't compare even my own kids, I can't see the point in comparing. It's like comparing your car, or your house, or the size of your bank balance etc... what's the point? I love everything I have in my life, I'm happy with everything I have... I don't think she was boasting, I have even followed it up with a post earlier saying that I thought she was actually reassuring herself and the only badly judged comment she made was to say that she wasn't very pleased with her son's result.

 

I understand you've read the posts Fiorelli, please don't think I'm trying to argue, but I do believe that you had a fundamental misunderstanding of what I was saying had upset me.

 

Gosh, yes we've all been there, that's the whole basis of this forum

 

Flo'

edited to add... To put it a little more succintly.... What she did wrong (in my eyes) was to compare the two lots of grades... People can sing their kids achievement from my very own roof top and I'll put a cd on to accompany them... I just don't want them comparing their kids to mine... Sorry to go on... it's important for me that people understand that I'm not grumbling about her son's relative success or even that she was (if she was) boasting about it... she's got a right to boast about it... he's her son and she works hard with him.

Edited August 1, 2008 by Flora

[fiorelli]

In that case, I read your posts wrong, and I'm sorry.

[Flora]

In that case, I read your posts wrong, and I'm sorry.

 

No need to apologise at all Fiorelli <'> . It's so easy to read things wrongly, ... sometimes if I'm in a hurry I reply to a thread and realise later after reading it again that I've got the wrong end of the stick....

 

Thanks for your input all the same.

 

Flo'

[Karen A]

Flora <'> <'>

I think the whole system of SATS is to blame.It sets up a system where children are compared on the basis of a few very narrow areas.Parents become anxious and then act that anxiety out by comparing their children with others.

We have had second hand feedback from parents who compare their children with Ben and resent the fact that he is doing well in some areas.

He has significant difficulties with many basic things...he cannot manage to bath himself or use the toilet without one of us close by.However he happens to be gifted in literacy and was assessed as level 5 this year [year 5].Children have questioned how come Ben gets extra help when he can do so much.....and it was obvious that they were repeating parental cooments.It is very sad.Karen.