Boy later diagnosed with autism

[onlycrazygal]

Felt compelled to post this as we got this kind of treatment with the bullying

and threats...no-one should have to go through this kind of treatment.

 

Boy later diagnosed with autism

 

Posted: 09 January 2009 | Subscribe Online

 

writes Dave Burke

 

A social worker has been found guilty of assaulting a 12-year-old boy he was helping to return to school.

 

Stephen Dent, who works for Croydon Council, became ?pink with aggression? when the child refused to go, Croydon Magistrates' Court was told.

 

Dent, who pleaded not guilty to assault, was today given a two-year conditional discharge. He was also ordered to pay costs and compensation.

 

Dent, 54, had been assigned to help the boy, who had been off school for more than 15 weeks after a meningitis scare last year, the court was told.

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Aggressive

 

His mother told the court that Dent, of Harrow Road, Warlingham, had been at their home on 15 July when he became aggressive.

 

The mother alleged Dent had grabbed her son by the arms, dragged him across the floor and ?intimidated? him, causing the boy to become hysterical.

 

She also claimed that Dent threatened to call in ?stronger men? to deal with the boy and that he warned the child would be put into care and bullied if he did not comply.

 

She alleged Dent told the boy: ?If this were 20 years ago, I?d have your arm behind your back and you?d be frogmarched into school.?

 

Dent denied making the remarks.

 

Autistic spectrum disorder

 

After the incident, the boy was diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorder and acute separation disorder, which made him afraid to leave the house. Dent was not aware of the boy?s condition at the time of the assault.

 

The court was shown photographs of the bruising and red marks suffered by the boy.

 

Sarah Lewis, defending, said Dent was ?simply trying to assist? the boy.

 

Dent?s colleague, Stephanie Greaves, a project worker with the Croydon Oak Avenue Project, admitted that numerous previous attempts to get the boy back to school using different methods had failed.

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Excesssive force

 

Dent, who had worked in social care for more than 30 years, was a former manager at the project, which specialises in crisis intervention to prevent young people going into care.

 

Finding Dent guilty of assault, district judge Anthony Callaway said: ?I have absolutely no doubt that Mr Dent was motivated to assist the boy from the start, and in particular on the day in question.?

 

But he continued: ?In the flash of the moment I take the view that he applied excessive and unlawful force to the boy, and on that basis I find the case proved.?

 

Suspended

 

But the judge stopped short of sending Dent to jail, saying that losing his job as a result of the conviction would be punishment enough.

 

After the verdict, Croydon Council confirmed that Dent was suspended soon after the council had become aware of the complaint that led to his conviction.

 

"He remains suspended while an internal investigation takes place under the council?s disciplinary process," said a spokeswoman.

[Enid]

mmmm interesting, have been in this situation times with my boy proir to diagnosis, with teachers restraining him, for 45 mins at a time and causing him acute distress. Enid

[pookie170]

My son has also been restrained many times, Enid. It undoubtedly caused him much anxiety and distress, but without that intervention, he would have hurt himself and others. I've had to do it myself on other occasions also. Not a nice experience at all, but I'd rather that than have him hurl a chair across the room and strike another child.... I'm grateful that he has progressed past this!!

But for a care worker to use such force and agression in a situation like this....I'm speechless. On the spectrum or not, no child should be treated this way, especially when the idea of returning to school is causing them so much distress.

Not surprised the mother took legal action, I would have too!

[coolblue]

This is a good example of what I'd call the 'institutional bullying' endemic in our society. The social worker's job was to get the kid back to school - if he didn't he would have failed to do his job and the LA may have failed to meet its attendance target. No excuses would have been tolerated by his bosses, I suspect. So he resorts to physical violence.

 

Teachers are in a similar position. They are expected to 'deliver the curriculum' in a way which results in children obtaining certain scores in SATs. If they fail to do this, they have failed to do their job (the fact that they haven't been properly trained, and are being asked to do the impossible is conveniently overlooked. ) They are being bullied, so what happens? They bully the children, who in turn bully each other, and children and parents end up getting the blame.

[baddad]

This is a good example of what I'd call the 'institutional bullying' endemic in our society. The social worker's job was to get the kid back to school - if he didn't he would have failed to do his job and the LA may have failed to meet its attendance target. No excuses would have been tolerated by his bosses, I suspect. So he resorts to physical violence.

 

No it isn't evidence or a 'good example of...institutional bullying'. It is a newspaper report about a single social worker overstepping the boundaries of what is/isn't acceptable, and apparantly with the best of intentions. Personally, I think there are far more children harmed by the actions of their parents - (with or without the best of intentions) - than there are by professionals. That kind of harm can go on for a lifetime and never reach the attention of the criminal system because parents are not subject to the same kind of scrutiny as professionals, and when their motives are challenged there are millions of people who have never met them who are willing to leap to their defence purely on the assumption that 'mum knows best', while professionals are increasingly demonised as a matter of course.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

[JsMum]

 

 

Baddad your responce upsets me, its like an attack on parents, this man dragged the boy by the legs, across a floor, he threatened him, with care, his mum in prison and recieving fines, this is verbal and emotional abuse, he caused bruising, and marks, he used excessive force, the judge found him guilty and should of gone to prison for, I dont see how you can stand up for him, and then agree the fault lies with the parent, this mum did everything to get help for her son, the boy had great seperation anxiety and then was approach by TWO social workers, have you seen him, his size and presance.

 

Its not on at all what this social worker did, I cant believe your standing up for him.

 

JsMum

 

[mossgrove]

Baddad your responce upsets me, its like an attack on parents, this man dragged the boy by the legs, across a floor, he threatened him, with care, his mum in prison and recieving fines, this is verbal and emotional abuse, he caused bruising, and marks, he used excessive force, the judge found him guilty and should of gone to prison for, I dont see how you can stand up for him, and then agree the fault lies with the parent, this mum did everything to get help for her son, the boy had great seperation anxiety and then was approach by TWO social workers, have you seen him, his size and presance.

 

Its not on at all what this social worker did, I cant believe your standing up for him.

 

JsMum

 

I don't think Baddad was standing up for the social worker, but the report was about an incident which was dealt with. You cannot automatically assume that because an incident took place it is proof of institutional bullying, you might equally infer that because the incident was dealt with it shows that the Local Authority had systems in place to prevent institutional bullying.

 

Simon

 

[JsMum]

I don't think Baddad was standing up for the social worker, but the report was about an incident which was dealt with. You cannot automatically assume that because an incident took place it is proof of institutional bullying, you might equally infer that because the incident was dealt with it shows that the Local Authority had systems in place to prevent institutional bullying.

 

Simon

 

 

Okay, I also know I said Feet, which is Arms, sorry for misunderstanding.

 

JsMum

 

[coolblue]

No it isn't evidence or a 'good example of...institutional bullying'. It is a newspaper report about a single social worker overstepping the boundaries of what is/isn't acceptable, and apparantly with the best of intentions. Personally, I think there are far more children harmed by the actions of their parents - (with or without the best of intentions) - than there are by professionals. That kind of harm can go on for a lifetime and never reach the attention of the criminal system because parents are not subject to the same kind of scrutiny as professionals, and when their motives are challenged there are millions of people who have never met them who are willing to leap to their defence purely on the assumption that 'mum knows best', while professionals are increasingly demonised as a matter of course.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

So, baddad, how would you describe a situation in which a worker who has unreasonable demands being made of them by their boss takes it out on people lower down the pecking order? I was simply identifying a phenomenon which many people have experienced whereby systems pressures can result in the people at the bottom of the heap suffering most. I was actually making an argument in the guy's defence.

 

Another factor is that this man was professionally trained and paid to do a job in a professional way. I don't doubt that more parents than professionals physically abuse their children - but they are not trained professionals paid by taxpayers to do a job. Would you justify physical violence on the part of the police by saying that criminals are worse?

 

[baddad]

Baddad your responce upsets me, its like an attack on parents, this man dragged the boy by the legs, across a floor, he threatened him, with care, his mum in prison and recieving fines, this is verbal and emotional abuse, he caused bruising, and marks, he used excessive force, the judge found him guilty and should of gone to prison for, I dont see how you can stand up for him, and then agree the fault lies with the parent, this mum did everything to get help for her son, the boy had great seperation anxiety and then was approach by TWO social workers, have you seen him, his size and presance.

 

Its not on at all what this social worker did, I cant believe your standing up for him.

 

JsMum

 

Hi J,s mum/ all -

 

Thanks, mossgrove, for clearing up the misunderstanding, and no, I wasn't defending the social worker - I said he was overstepping the boundaries of what is/isn't acceptable; which is what he's been convicted of and quite rightly punished for.

I would add though, that he has not been found guilty of dragging the child by his arms or legs or of using verbal emotional abuse. Tthese were accusations the mother made and that he denied. I also wasn't making any judgement whatsoever about the mother and/or saying the fault lies with her - i know nothing whatsoever about the case other than what is posted in this thread, so couldn't possibly make a judgement positive or negative about either of the parties involved. That's exactly the point i was making: that coolblue's judgement that this was indicative of 'institutionalised bullying etc has far more to do with her preconceptions about professional's generally than it does about the facts of this case. If the judge, who heard all of the evidence concerned, arrived at the conclusion that :

 

I have absolutely no doubt that Mr Dent was motivated to assist the boy from the start, and in particular on the day in question.?

 

But he continued: In the flash of the moment I take the view that he applied excessive and unlawful force to the boy, and on that basis I find the case proved.

 

then I think to say the judge is 'wrong' without knowing those same facts can only be a judgement made out of prejudice and preconception...

 

As I went to post this I saw coolblue's latest post: How would i describe...

In this case, I would describe it as totally speculative, unless you are party to some information that I'm not. If your argument in the guy's defence was that he is the victim himself of institutionalised bullying and was just passing that on down the line to protect himself it doesn't sound much of a defence and it's still totally speculative and it goes against the judges ruling that he had no doubt the man was acting in the child's best interests and made a mistake...

The second part of your post completely baffles me, because from the last sentence you seem to be implying that i have condoned this man's behaviour in some way or excused it(?) which i haven't!

Tthe only thing i questioned was the sweeping generalisation you made about what this single case 'represented', which seemed to me borne more out of a personal agenda/imperative than it appeared to be pertinent to the facts as represented. Turning your question on it's head: would you condone/defend the behaviours of abusive parents because they are not paid for parenting? You don't need to answer that, of course, because I wouldn't assume that's the case for one minute.

 

L&P

 

BD

[coolblue]

Baddad, I have come across a number of instances where employees have, purely because of inappropriate pressure from those above them in an organisational hierarchy, behaved in a way which has been unpleasant and unfair to people below them in the hierarchy. I was making the point that this may have been why Mr Dent behaved as he did.

 

We all know (don't we?) that news items can be speculative, biased and sometimes completely fabricated (see "Flat Earth News"). That doesn't mean they are all speculative, biased or fabricated, nor that people shouldn't post them for other people to comment on, nor that other people's comments are inappropriate because they don't know what really happened.

 

The OP could equally well have said "Imagine this scenario..." and we could have commented on it. I can't see what's wrong with that. Surely a discussion of what might have happened can be very useful, as the situation described in the news item is not entirely beyond the realms of possibility and it behoves us all to be prepared for all contingencies.

[baddad]

Baddad, I have come across a number of instances where employees have, purely because of inappropriate pressure from those above them in an organisational hierarchy, behaved in a way which has been unpleasant and unfair to people below them in the hierarchy. I was making the point that this may have been why Mr Dent behaved as he did.

 

We all know (don't we?) that news items can be speculative, biased and sometimes completely fabricated (see "Flat Earth News"). That doesn't mean they are all speculative, biased or fabricated, nor that people shouldn't post them for other people to comment on, nor that other people's comments are inappropriate because they don't know what really happened.

 

The OP could equally well have said "Imagine this scenario..." and we could have commented on it. I can't see what's wrong with that. Surely a discussion of what might have happened can be very useful, as the situation described in the news item is not entirely beyond the realms of possibility and it behoves us all to be prepared for all contingencies.

 

 

I'm sorry, but i'm really lost now? looking at the middle section of your post - I've not said that all news stories are speculative, biased or fabricated and i've not said anybody shouldn't post their views or that they're inappropriate.

On the final paragraph, yes, if the OP had posted, imagine this scenario' then it would have been perfectly reasonable to speculate about it - but they didn't. They posted a real news story which you said was:

 

a good example of what I'd call the 'institutional bullying' endemic in our society

, and which I said wasn't - that's all!

 

On you first point - it may have been... but equally it may have not been and the judges summation - based on evidence rather than speculation - was that the man was acting in the best interests of the child but in the heat of the moment overstepped certain boundaries.... that doesn't sound like the scenario you've theorised at all, and it certainly doesn't sound like 'institutionalised bullying' and even if it did that doesn't suggest that 'institutional bulllying' is 'endemic in our society'...

Hope that clears things up

 

L&P

 

BD

[coolblue]

Hope that clears things up

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Errr.... no, it doesn't.

 

[onlycrazygal]

At the end of the day surely we are all free on this forum to add

our unique opinions...

These are the kind of issues that really do need airing because

it does happen. Generally when a social worker is involved we

are talking care proceedings or should I say, threats of care

proceedings. Personally I find this kind of tactic repulsive as It

happened to my family. My son was told he couldnt possibly

love me, because if he did love me he would go to school and

save me from going to prison.

He was told he was trying it on,told he was lazy, at one point

he was sat on until he promised he would go to school.

I was threatened with imprisonment and my child put into

fostercare. It was a terrible time for us, there was so much

pressure to do things their way.My son became ill due to

the bullying tactics they used.

They all have quota s to fulfill, targets to accomplish the system

is target driven,they have line managers to answer to.

Upon reflection I wish I had kicked her out of my home, but parents,

especially vulnerable ones put their complete faith in the

professionals and I did. There is good and bad in every profession

however, when there are targets and substantial financial gains or

financial savings involved, understanding sadly goes out of the

window...

[bid]

While there is undoubtedly room for improvement in education, SS and health, professionally I have experienced the other side, when parents don't act in the best interests of their children.

 

I don't think it helps anyone to demonise professionals...just as I wouldn't demonise parents because of my experiences.

 

Bid

Edited January 11, 2009 by bid

[baddad]

At the end of the day surely we are all free on this forum to add

our unique opinions...

These are the kind of issues that really do need airing because

it does happen. Generally when a social worker is involved we

are talking care proceedings or should I say, threats of care

proceedings. Personally I find this kind of tactic repulsive as It

happened to my family. My son was told he couldnt possibly

love me, because if he did love me he would go to school and

save me from going to prison.

He was told he was trying it on,told he was lazy, at one point

he was sat on until he promised he would go to school.

I was threatened with imprisonment and my child put into

fostercare. It was a terrible time for us, there was so much

pressure to do things their way.My son became ill due to

the bullying tactics they used.

They all have quota s to fulfill, targets to accomplish the system

is target driven,they have line managers to answer to.

Upon reflection I wish I had kicked her out of my home, but parents,

especially vulnerable ones put their complete faith in the

professionals and I did. There is good and bad in every profession

however, when there are targets and substantial financial gains or

financial savings involved, understanding sadly goes out of the

window...

 

I'm sorry, OCG, but this is completely unreasonable. You have made this thread completely personal to your account of your experiences, and hi-jacked a news item to your own ends. Anyone now voicing any alternative opinion will be seen as 'aggressive; or uncaring - whatever the legitimacy of their opinion. I won't be posting any opinions in this thread again. personally, i think your post should be removed, but thank god i don't have to make those sorts of decisions anymore and can take the flak for voicing legitimate concerns without it being used as a basis for attacking the forum or the people moderating it. What you think happened to your family is one side of ths story. the proffessionals involved have no right of reply.

 

BD

[cmuir]

Hi

 

I know on occasions I've been guilty of, to some degree, losing control of a situation (which I'm not proud of) when it comes to managing (or not managing) my son on occasions. I think this shows that professionals are also capable of not handling situations as well as they should or in a professional manner. I'm in no way condoning the actions of the SW - merely want to point out that we're all only human and imperfect. I think when faced with a child that is perhaps uncooperative, aggressive, etc and perhaps over a long period of time, it's easy to lose patience/control (not excusing it, just trying to understand it).

 

C.

[bid]

Generally when a social worker is involved we

are talking care proceedings or should I say, threats of care

proceedings.

 

Just seen this, and I wouldn't want anyone to worry unnecessarily

 

Many families here will have a SW (we did for years) without any question of care proceedings!

 

SS can and do provide support such as respite, parent support groups, etc.

 

I think it's rather irresponsible to make this kind of comment.

 

Bid

Edited January 12, 2009 by bid

[teachermum1]

Yep, J has a social worker and it's not remotely about care proceedings! She's a disability team social worker, not a child protection team one, and most autistic children round here have access to one!

 

Like any situation, there are some good and bad parents, good and bad teachers, good and bad social workers...while we can only go off our own experience, we can't generalise about any group of people based just on that.

 

Edited to say that J's social worker is brilliant - has organised all kinds of opportunities for him that we'd never have had otherwise

Edited January 12, 2009 by teachermum1

[Kathryn]

Sadly, it's the professionals who step outside boundaries and make mistakes who make the headlines. Here was a social worker who overreacted, whilst a few weeks ago we were vilifying the social workers for failing to intervene in the case of Baby P. The vast majority probably just quietly go about their jobs and the good decisions that are made never come to the attention of the public.

 

Nobody doubts that this social worker did wrong, and you've had bad experiences with another set of social workers, OCG, but as teachermum has just said:

 

"Like any situation, there are some good and bad parents, good and bad teachers, good and bad social workers...while we can only go off our own experience, we can't generalise about any group of people based just on that."

 

I think this discussion has run its course and so I'm going to close it on that note.

 

Kathryn