And it was all going so well

[NickyB]

Well I knew it couldn't last

 

DS went back to school last week and he really seemed to be enjoying it. He was staying in the classroom and getting some work done.

On Monday he had a bad start as the new reception class started and the corridors were full of the mums and lots of buggies. He got very stressed by this and ended up running around lashing out in all directions. The head teacher and I decided that we would try taking DS in at 9 o'clock to avoid the crush and, although he doesn't like not to be first, it seemed to reduce his anxiety. However, since Monday he has not been in the classroom much and has not engaged in any learning at all.He's been very defiant and will not do anything that the teachers are asking of him.

This afternoon he got very stressed as he couldn't be first into the classroom after lunch.He started hitting and kicking, and he had to be restrained and moved into the staff room. I work at the school at luchtime and I saw it all, so I know the staff behaved appropriately, and a few of them were hurt. The teacher decided that he would need to be excluded as a result of this.

 

I have made sure to tell him that he's come home early because he hurt people. He has been in tears ever since because I have taken away his favourite toys and I'm not allowing him to watch the TV or have any treats. I'm really hoping that he understands that he's done wrong and things will be better tomorrow

 

We are all struggling to work out what has changed between last week and this. I don't think it was just the bad start he had on Monday, but he is not able to tell anyone what the matter is. He's always had ups and downs but I'm quite shocked by the sudden change in his behaviour. Anyone got any ideas or advice?

 

Nicky

[bluefish]

So sorry to hear you are having a tough time, I really understand and feel for you.

just wondered, have the staff made a point of explaining about the new starters on a daily basis? as my ds needs this daily to make him understand. Also what about staff giving your ds an "important" job to do each lunch or play time to detract from being first? like line monitor or something.

It is so hard, I know my ds can not help, or explain his unexceptable behaviour at times but still needs to learn it wont be excepted.

Hope things improve x

[Kathryn]

Sorry to hear the week has been bad, Nicky. I hope you get to the bottom of what's going on. Although it's stressful all round, the exclusion may at at least support your quest for a statement.

 

K x

[Karen A]

Hi Nicky.Sorry today has not gone well.

Please do make sure that the exclusion is formally recorded.

If staff have been hurt the incident should also be recorded in an incident book.

At least this helps to provide evidence that more appropriate support is needed. <'> Karen.

[baddad]

Hi Nicky - Sorry it's all gone horrid today

Going back after seven weeks off always takes a bit of adjusting to, and IME it takes a week or so for all the changes to 'kick in' - i.e. the first week they are so busy working out all the new stuff going up a year brings that the stress doesn't ramp up immediately. I hope it's something like that, anyway...

I think you've handled it spot on - firm sanctions, calm explanations, solid expectations and boundaries. That's the only way he can know how serious it is and what's expected of him. Tears are a good thing when they're for the right reasons and they are helping them to learn, even if we do feel like monsters for prompting them

Exclusions are doubly difficult, because while in one way you want your kids to benefit from the break (that is, not get even more stressed) you have to make sure that being at home doesn't become a reward. It's a fine line, but it sounds as if he would rather be at school anyway, so that's a good place to start from.

If 'first in' is becoming a problem perhaps it would help to change tack? Instead of taking him in later, get him off playground a couple of minutes earlier for Time Out before he goes back into class. If the school can support him in that then they could build flexibility into it - alternating each day so that he's in first some days, last others but has a TA or whatever on hand in either case. Ben really needed that minute or so T.O for a good six months or so during year 5 and it made a huge difference.

 

Hope that helps, and very best for next time

 

L&P

 

BD

[mariag]

Hi Nicky

 

Sorry things have got so bad, when my DS2 lost control at school his head teacher made sure that his punishment was immediate, he missed his play and sat outside her office all afternoon. It was timeout for him too to calm down. Before he returned to school the next day i had to call the head teacher as my he refused to go to school, she reasurred him that it was over and as a result he felt much better. Your DS has realised that he has done wrong but in order to move forward he needs to be reasurred that it's over and he can start new tomorrow and whatever has bothered him will probably soon come to light. It may be the shock of realising that he has gone up a year as the new children have started now and he may feel really upset that he is not in the reception class anymore, my guess is that he is feeling a little insecure, having to go first is his way of being noticed maybe?!

 

I hope things improve soon

 

Maria xx <'> ><

 

 

[lynne]

 

 

sorry to hear your son has been excluded but you can use this to your advantage. Does your son have support in the school? Is he statemented. You need to speak to the headteacher, class teacher and senco. Ask them to seek help and support from the specialist team and ask them what stratergies they are going to put in place to support your son to prevent the same thing happening again.

 

 

I use to find the first week my son could cope with if he missed the first day of noise and confusion but by the second week everything seemed more challenging for him to deal with. Also noise and change of classroom were major problems.

 

Also get the exclusion in writing.

 

 

 

[NickyB]

Thanks for your support everyone. It's made me feel much better. I feel a bit like a monster this evening as I've sent him to bed with no story and he's very upset.

 

BD, thanks for your suggestions. I will talk to them about bringing him in a bit early from breaktime for a 'time out' - anything is worth a try. One thing I will say is that the school are very flexible in trying to find ways to help him.

 

Lynne, he has 1-2-1 support all day and the school have lots of different strategies in place. Sadly, we are battling with the LEA to even get a statutory assessment carried out

 

I have asked the teacher for a copy of her records, and the exclusion in writing, and I'll be sending it in to the LEA - one of the reasons they gave for refusing to assess was that the school are coping fine as things are. We already have plenty of evidence to the contrary and this can only reinforce that. I suppose that may be something positive that might come out of this.

 

Now I'm going to try to relax and have some

 

Thanks again everyone <'>

 

 

[Kazzen161]

From what I recall only the Headteacher or her deputy can exclude, and you should then have it confirmed in writing asap (usually the same day)

 

Is it a formal exclusion or just a "take him home for the afternoon"?

 

Why can't he come in first if he needs to (eg: given him a "job" that means he goes in before everyone else)?

 

Was it not possible to move other people/children away, rather then restrain him? Restraint should only be a very last resort.

[lynne]

 

 

If you son has 1 to 1 support than they need to look at everything the environment current stratergies used, reflect on what happens, when and why.

 

My son use to respond to something that had happened earlier on in the day or the day before and for example the noise element of new children would set him off but this was not the main cause of his anxiety. (I hope this makes sense).

 

 

When my child entered infant school it took us 10 months to get him to attend school full time. We had to build things up slowly. He also had the help of a weekly visit from the ASD team.

 

The other stratergies we used was my son did not go to assembly. Too much noise and confusion which would be the foundation stone to unsettle him for the rest of the day.

 

 

We also restricted play time, he went on the grass area supervised (this area was quieter). He did not go out to play with the other kids or come in with them as the enviroment was not good for him.

 

He also had a quiet area to go to outside the classroom. So when my child was showing very early signs of anxiety eg not listening, swinging his legs etc than he would be moved to a quiet area to allow him time for his senses to return to normal. This may take 30 minutes or 4 hours.

 

We also used magic cool and lavender spray to keep him cool as he frequently would overheat. Also the teacher had a fan in the classroom which he loved on him.

 

 

This activites prevented an episode escalating from a level 1 problem to a level 10 problem. Its all about prevention rather than reacting to the outburst of the child.

 

I believe even with the best of teachers they still need guidance from an ASD team.

 

 

 

[lynne]

Its also important to explain when your child has done wrong and reinforce this message. Otherwise the child gets confused.

 

I always told my son that ASD can affect him, however hurting people is not ASD and this is naughtiness. He understood this very clearly.

 

 

The other thing we discussed was what was his punishment would be if he was naughty at school and what type of punishment if he was violent at school. My son decided his punishement was 10 minutes sitting on the stairs thinking about what happened and no cartoon network. If he was really naughty no play station for a week or cartoons. We would also discuss the incidents that happened when he was settled. A lot of the time we would have to discuss the incident the following day as he was too distressed.

 

 

My son also had a rocket (he loved rockets) on this rocket he would score how he felt 1 till 4 for ok 5-6 struggling and 6+ if he needed help. He would put a score number on this rocket when he came back in the classroom or while working in the classroom. That way the staff could be aware of our my son was feeling without my son saying a word.

 

The other thing he was involved in was circle time which helped to deal with problems, worries concerns etc. It also allowed a group of children to express there worries in a safe environment

 

 

Stay strong and focused.

Edited September 16, 2009 by lynne

[baddad]

From what I recall only the Headteacher or her deputy can exclude, and you should then have it confirmed in writing asap (usually the same day)

 

Is it a formal exclusion or just a "take him home for the afternoon"?

 

Why can't he come in first if he needs to (eg: given him a "job" that means he goes in before everyone else)?

 

Was it not possible to move other people/children away, rather then restrain him? Restraint should only be a very last resort.

 

Hi Kazzen -

 

I don't know if you read the OP or just the replies, but the sanction and restraint weren't issues. Nicky was actually present when the incident took place and was happy that the staff had handled the situation appropriately. In her second post Nicky has said that the school are being very flexible and supportive and are open to any suggestions that might help...

I hope you don't mind me highlighting those factors again, but looking at your post it did seem to suggest difficulties in communication/agreement on strategies that weren't evident in the OP which could have coloured the way others responded.

Hope that makes sense

 

L&P

 

BD

[Sally44]

My understanding is that 'needing to be first' is quite a common one. And he is 6 not 16. Talk with school about this to see how they can work with this. If he could come in from break/dinnertime etc a minute earlier that would help. But getting behind anything that might be causing the 'need' to be first is useful. If he struggles with noise and bustle, then being 'first in' might make it easier for him to cope with rather than walking into a noisy bustling classroom. And at age 6 with a diagnosis, he is not going to be able to tell you what the problem is.

Of course you have to reprimand him for hitting and lashing out so that he is clear that this response is not acceptable. But if this is something he is genuinely struggling with then just giving out punishments when he cannot cope with the situation, IMO, is not fair. He is probably too young to be able to understand his emotional state and request he needs time out etc, so his TA is going to be the main person to 'notice' when she needs to get him out the class. But again they need to teach him how to identify his emotional state and teach him how to communicate that. But they didn't start with that kind of thing until my son was around 8.

Unfortunately our children tend not to volunteer information and tend not to have good 'insight' into what is going on in their heads. I've just tonight had a phone call from my son's TA to tell me about an incident at school. This was something that really upset my son for the whole duration of dinnertime. It turns out 2 boys had tried to kick down the toilet door whilst he was in the toilet. On talking with him about it tonight, it appears it has happened previously and he said 'that is why I don't like to go to school'. As per usual, that is the first I have heard about it. He has not said anything to anyone at home or school about this happening and even after the incident today he did not volunteer any information. I had to question him after a phone call from his TA. Trying to get them to understand that they need to 'tell us' what has upset them and to teach them how to communicate that is quite a major thing.

But it is early days, new school year, new class/classmates/teacher/routines etc.

But it does get better. My son has just joined the after school football club and actually enjoyed it. Two years ago he had to leave football club because he could not cope with the demands placed on him.

[NickyB]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Most of the things suggested are already being or have been tried, but there are a couple of things I can suggest to the school and/or try at home.

 

He was genuinely very upset that I wasn't being his friend yesterday, so I'm hoping that means he's understood how I feel on some level. I've talked to him this morning about how I want to be his friend and how he needs to behave, and kept it all very positive, and he seemed to respond to that ( )

He went in to school reasonably happy this morning, so fingers crossed (I'm jumping every time the phone rings )

 

As I said before I am more than happy with all the school are trying and how they handle him. He was running around the school lashing out at everyone, so they really couldn't do anything else but restrain him. I will get everything in wrirting - the head teacher was not there when I actually took him home but I will speak to her this morning and get it all formalised.

 

Here's hoping for a better day

[baddad]

Here's hoping for a better day

 

 

Hope so.

 

Sally 44. I agree up to a point with some of what you say, and the going in early was covered in one of my earlier posts and NickyB has already said she feels certain the school will be open to helping in any way they can, but the bit that confuses me about your post - about so many posts on the forum, in fact - is the kind of thinking expressed in 'he's 6 not 16' and 'if he's genuinely not coping then handing out punishments is unfair'.

I've used this analogy many, many times, but would that kind of thinking be useful for the parent of a typically developing non-autistic two year old child who has reached the same learning curve? The boundaries and sanctions are there to help the child, not just to punish them. Theory of mind 'happens' more naturally for small children, and with autistic children it happens later and they need more help getting there, but in both cases it is the expectation placed upon the child that teaches him or her the wider implications of their behaviour. Some severely autistic people (sorry for the terminology, as per)may never develop theory of mind as such, but can learn many social expectations by rote from 'consequences'.

A two year old who lashes out will not, automatically, think it is 'fair' if the toy or sweet they lash out for is denied them, and they too are probably too young to understand their emotional state, but it is the child's view of what is 'fair' that is compromised - not the parents. He is 6 not 16 is a defence that can be used at any age if the assumption is that the person cannot see the consequences of their action (let's not talk about Gary McKinnon again, eh?). The law has it that children much older than 6 can't fully appreciate the consequences of their actions and sanctions accordingly: it doesn't assume that sanctions are 'unfair' per se; because the role of sanctions is viewed as vital to the process of learning social responsibility...

 

Sorry if I sound like I'm 'banging a drum' here, but this is one of very very few posts I've seen on the forum where a parent is actually endorsing the school's handling of a situation and acknowleding their input as beneficial and positive. As those kinds of posts come so few and far between it'd be nice to see it not turned into another thread saying 'the school are handling it wrong' or 'our kids can't understand the consequences of their actions'.

 

L&P

 

BD

[dana]

Hi, Nicky,

I am really sorry the school year started this way. <'>

It is good that the school is flexible and is trying to help. I just have one more suggestion which has helped my son hugely.

He does n ot respond to punishment very well, in fact at all. Instead, his school (and me) are using rewards as motivation to understand how he should behave. Rewards could be anything he enjoys. For my son there were stickers or prints of his favorite characters and praise in front of the school in the assembly. These could be very small things he has done i.e. sitting still with a back straight in the assembly or ignoring the other children trying to distract him or else. With my son it really worked and he started feeling better about himself , telling everybody at school how well he was behaving that rewards were still important but his good behaviour which made him feeling good about himself became more important to him. There are still problems (and there will be) but it is a start.

I wish you good luck.

 

Danaxxx

[Sally44]

 

I am not criticising the school. However the poster has posted about this problem for others opinions. These forums give those posting the opportunity of accessing others experiences. Some will be relevent to their situation, whilst others won't be.

IMO the lashing out is a behaviour that is most likely a 'result' of him not being happy with the situation/outcome, or due to a lack of understanding or misunderstanding. So where do you go from there.

Very often there is no 'communication' from the autistic child about 'why' or 'what' is the problem. With direct questioning you can sometimes get answers that make the whole problem easy or easier to resolve. For example if the children don't always sit in the same place and therefore the 'first in' sit where they want, or children sit at different ables for different subjects, then a child may find it hard to understand where he should sit or cope with sitting on a different chair or at a different table or next to a different person. This was a problem my son had and his previous school did not recognise it as anything other than naughtiness. They said he needed to 'learn' to cope with these kind of changes and proceeded to punish his behaviour without teaching him alternatives or even trying to see what the problem was from his perspective. So he didn't automatically learn to cope and his behaviour deteriorated making him more disruptive. They tried 'putting his name on the naughty board'. That made him worse because it punished him without giving him any support in teaching him how to deal with this area of difficulty.

He didn't understand how he was being naughty because he thought the chair was his and that the other children were the ones being naughty because they sat in his chair. So he felt doubly confused as not only were the children being naughty, but the teachers were not punishing the naughty children, but were punishing him. Therefore in his mind the children and teachers were the naughty ones and he said he was a 'good boy' and didn't want to go to a 'naughty school'. No-one had explained this inaccuracy to him or even attempted to understand him. They assumed he had the same understanding as they did, which he didn't. Afterall Goldilocks was naughty for going into the bears house and sitting on their furniture and eating their food.

At his new school he knew which chair was his and he was happy with that. He was then taught about changing chairs/tables/workstation etc and how it is okay for him to sit somewhere different and how it is okay for other children to sit at his desk etc. He was given structure and routine to know 'where' he should sit and 'when'. He has learnt this and is now okay with it. It took about a year to teach these skills, but he learnt them and uses them and is a happier child because of the greater understanding he now has.

Life skill taught - Problem solved.

 

[NickyB]

Hello again. I spoke to the head teacher today and she said I will have a full report and exclusion letter by the end of tomorrow. DS was much much better today - very calm and got lots of work done When I picked him up I gave him loads of cuddles and praise, and I've spoken to him about doing the same tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes.

 

Dana, I agree with you that positive reinforcement is very important and we use that strategy most of the time. However, I feel on this occasion it was very important for him to be in no doubt that his actions were unacceptable. This morning he was very cuddly and said he wants to be my friend, and that's actually the first time he has ever shown any kind of reaction to other people's emotions. I am seeing that as a positive thing, and we will now try to move on and build on that in a constructive way.

 

Sally, you are absolutely right that this behaviour was the result of something happening that he didn't like or understand, in this case, not being able to be first in from the playground. The school are extremely good at accommodating his needs but sometimes it just can't be done, or something happens and they don't have the opportunity to pre-warn him. The head teacher said today that she is going to put some 1-2-1 support in place for him at playtimes, and he will be given a task to do when it's time to come back in from the playground. He already has his own workstation, a visual timetable, a quiet place to go, and many other things in place.

We are trying to get extra support to help him learn how to manage his frustrations better, and we are trying to get the LEA to carry out statutory assessment (but that's a whole other story )

 

Like you say Sally, some opinions will be relevant to a situation whilst others won't, and it's really good to know that so many people are willing to offer help and advive, so thank you everyone

[baddad]

DS was much much better today - very calm and got lots of work done

This morning he was very cuddly and said he wants to be my friend, and that's actually the first time he has ever shown any kind of reaction to other people's emotions.

 

 

Glad it's been a positive day, and - yes - I would say that the 'want to be friends' thing is a good indication. To say he 'wants to be friends' is an sign that he is starting to understand that friendship isn't a 'given', and it also reflects an emotional need in him for the approval of mum/dad/significant others. Big concept for a littlun - so expect the occassioanal 'step backward' over the next 75-80 years or so.

 

Dana, I totally agree about the value of rewards/praise etc. Thing is, though, that very very few children do respond to punishment well, and that's perfectly natural and normal. In fact, if a child does respond well to sanctions it's probably an indication that something has gone very wrong and either the sanction isn't being perceived as a sanction or the child - for whatever psychological reason - is 'seeking' punishment as a reinforcer/reward.

Carrot and stick (metahporically speaking of course) each have their role to play, and if you look to nature you'll see that it has been that way since life first dragged itself from the primordial soup. And I know - I was there!

 

[bid]

Nicky: really glad the school is working with you so well, and I agree that getting this exclusion formally documented should help your ongoing Stat Ass request. It's horrible but sadly true that very often we have to wait until things have deteriorated before proper provision and support is forthcoming from LAs

 

Bid

Edited September 17, 2009 by Kathryn

[Kazzen161]

 

Yes, thank you, I did read her post.

 

Just because NickyB said she was happy with what the school did/are doing, doesn't mean that the school are in fact doing everything right.

 

She did say somewhere that it was because he wanted to be first in, and I just asked why he could not be allowed in first (there was an implication that he had to stay out like everyone else).

 

You and I have discussed before that my assumptions are not always the same as yours - that does not mean I should not put them forward for consideration. It is for NickyB to decide if they have any value in her particular child's case, as she knows her child (and the school) best. She is perfectly entitled to ignore any of my suggestions - I would not be offended.

 

I was concerned that the teacher said he was excluded, when only the Head or her deputy (generally the deputy head) can exclude. It may be that the teacher is the deputy, but if the exclusion is not done correctly it will be invalid and shows that the school are not clear on the procedures. This then makes one wonder if they are clear on when they can use restraint. I have been in similar (and worse) situations before with children (as a LSA), and have managed never to use restraint.

 

It does sound as if the school are keen to help, which is great.

 

Nicky, another thing they could work on is finding a safe place where your child could go if he is angry/upset. Then they can teach him to go there when he is getting upset/angry. Once he is there he can be left to calm down, with someone watching discretely. That way he is safe and so are others. He could have a box of things to do to calm himself down. He will need lots of help to begin with to recognise that he is getting angry/upset, and to remind him to go to the safe place before he gets to meltdown stage.

 

A child I worked with last year, often used to end up in his "safe" place (he had one inside and one outside), but by the end of the year he didn't need them anymore.

 

I would recommend the book "Aspergers Syndrome and Difficult Moments: practical solutions for tantrums, rage and meltdowns" by B Smith Myles and J Southwick.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Kathryn

[NickyB]

I was concerned that the teacher said he was excluded, when only the Head or her deputy (generally the deputy head) can exclude. It may be that the teacher is the deputy, but if the exclusion is not done correctly it will be invalid and shows that the school are not clear on the procedures. This then makes one wonder if they are clear on when they can use restraint. I have been in similar (and worse) situations before with children (as a LSA), and have managed never to use restraint.

 

It does sound as if the school are keen to help, which is great.

 

Nicky, another thing they could work on is finding a safe place where your child could go if he is angry/upset. Then they can teach him to go there when he is getting upset/angry. Once he is there he can be left to calm down, with someone watching discretely. That way he is safe and so are others. He could have a box of things to do to calm himself down. He will need lots of help to begin with to recognise that he is getting angry/upset, and to remind him to go to the safe place before he gets to meltdown stage.

 

A child I worked with last year, often used to end up in his "safe" place (he had one inside and one outside), but by the end of the year he didn't need them anymore.

 

I would recommend the book "Aspergers Syndrome and Difficult Moments: practical solutions for tantrums, rage and meltdowns" by B Smith Myles and J Southwick.

 

Hi Kazzen and thanks for your suggestions and advice

 

There is a quiet room in place which DS does use fairly often but this situation happened so quickly and his reaction was so severe that it really wasn't possible to use that strategy on this occasion. Everyone, including me, was very shocked at the severity of this meltdown, and he was posing an immediate and serious danger to the other children, staff and himself. The head teacher made the decision to exclude him, but she had to go out before I had got myself changed out of my work clothes and back to the staff room to pick him up. That's why the class teacher told me it was a formal exclusion. I probably didn't explain that very well before in my rather distressed state As I said above, I will be getting it all in writing tomorrow. The head teacher is well aware that I know how it should work, and she is hoping, like me, that this will help our case for an assessment.

They do try their best to accommodate his needs, but they have many other children with ASD to consider, and some of them have the 'being first' issue too, so it's not always very easy to avoid these problems. When these kind of things have happened before, he has just taken himself off and calmed down in the quiet room, but this time for some reason he reacted very violently. As he can't really verbalise his feelings, I may never find out what made him react so severely this time.

Edited September 17, 2009 by NickyB

[baddad]

Yes, thank you, I did read her post.

 

Just because NickyB said she was happy with what the school did/are doing, doesn't mean that the school are in fact doing everything right.

 

She did say somewhere that it was because he wanted to be first in, and I just asked why he could not be allowed in first (there was an implication that he had to stay out like everyone else).

 

You and I have discussed before that my assumptions are not always the same as yours - that does not mean I should not put them forward for consideration.

 

Hi Kazzen - I do agree that the forum is a place for sharing opinions (which is, I think, the crux of what you're saying above and the point made by sally 44) but the point i was trying to make was that there is actually no conflict here...

Many many posts are made on forum where parents/schools disagree about sanctions etc, but if I or anyone else speaks out to say 'well actually the school does seem to have a point' all hell breaks loose...

When a post is made actually praising a school on it's efforts on behalf of a child and people still assume the worst it really does speak volumes about the bias that exists in some people's minds against school's and the amount of negativity that is directed toward them (and by extension to professionals in general).

 

I think it's entirely reasonable to offer alternative perspectives for consideration, but surely that's a two way thing, and all the evidence to date on this forum is that it just doesn't work that way at all. I (and a few others) have offered 'alternative perspectives' on situations where schools and parents (or professionals and parents) are in complete disagreement - but in almost every case I am accused of being 'judgemental' or words to that effect. To actually offer 'alternative perspectives' when parents and schools are in agreement seems far more 'judgemental' and blinkered IMO. Words like 'prejudice', and 'projection' spring to mind, if I'm honest, but i'll probably be ripped to shreds for saying so...

Putting it into context, if someone posts and says 'I feel the school's letting my littlun get away with murder but that's okay by me' and i reply by saying 'well that may be okay by you but it's not okay by me' then i would feel it was perfectly reasonable for people to challenge my judgement. It wouldn't necessarily mean I wouldn't post it, but I would at least understand their objection to me posting it. i objected to your post (and sally44's) on that basis - that you were 'projecting' your own feelings about school onto this situation even though the parent herself was saying - repeatedly - 'no, actually that's NOT an issue.'

Hope that makes sense, and sorry, NickyB for taking the thread off at a tangent there. I'll try not to post on the same off-topic topic in this thread again, but am happy to contribute to a new thread on a similar theme if anyone wants to create one.

For the record, I'm all for open discussion on all aspects of autism, education, diagnosis, behavioural management etc etc etc, but there seems to be a very polarised view of what 'open discussion' means around here, and it's getting more and more prescriptive by the day.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Sally44]

Hello again. I spoke to the head teacher today and she said I will have a full report and exclusion letter by the end of tomorrow. DS was much much better today - very calm and got lots of work done When I picked him up I gave him loads of cuddles and praise, and I've spoken to him about doing the same tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes.

 

Dana, I agree with you that positive reinforcement is very important and we use that strategy most of the time. However, I feel on this occasion it was very important for him to be in no doubt that his actions were unacceptable. This morning he was very cuddly and said he wants to be my friend, and that's actually the first time he has ever shown any kind of reaction to other people's emotions. I am seeing that as a positive thing, and we will now try to move on and build on that in a constructive way.

 

Sally, you are absolutely right that this behaviour was the result of something happening that he didn't like or understand, in this case, not being able to be first in from the playground. The school are extremely good at accommodating his needs but sometimes it just can't be done, or something happens and they don't have the opportunity to pre-warn him. The head teacher said today that she is going to put some 1-2-1 support in place for him at playtimes, and he will be given a task to do when it's time to come back in from the playground. He already has his own workstation, a visual timetable, a quiet place to go, and many other things in place.

We are trying to get extra support to help him learn how to manage his frustrations better, and we are trying to get the LEA to carry out statutory assessment (but that's a whole other story )

 

Like you say Sally, some opinions will be relevant to a situation whilst others won't, and it's really good to know that so many people are willing to offer help and advive, so thank you everyone

 

It is good that the school is being so positive and approachable about this. That really helps. If there is nothing 'identifiable' that you or school think he is specifically struggling with that is causing him to want to always be first then you proceed as you are doing. Firm consistent consequences for his behaviour whilst at the same time increasing the level of support at those critical times and maybe working with him on recognising his emotional state and teaching him other ways of demonstrating he is not happy. My son can also get very emotional very quickly. At those times his TA will say to him 'I can see you are getting very upset about XXX, lets go to the quiet area'. There he calms down and they talk about what happened.

He has also had to undo somethings he has learnt from TV/films. For example previously he used to think that whenever he got upset he had to leave the house or school because that is what he had seen on TV. He did not have the imagination or emotional maturity to be able to see any other option other than the one he had rote learnt from TV. So he had to be told that that is what happened on TV, but is not what you should do. At home you should do XXX and at school you should tell an adult if you are upset.

He has also learnt some skills such as sharing, taking turns, waiting to speak, putting his hand up for help instead of shouting out. And some other inappropriate behaviour he has just grown out of. Many of our children are quite immature from a developmental point of view, and sometimes time itself is what is needed for them to develop.

[Kazzen161]

When these kind of things have happened before, he has just taken himself off and calmed down in the quiet room, but this time for some reason he reacted very violently. As he can't really verbalise his feelings, I may never find out what made him react so severely this time.

 

It sounds like the school are keen to help, which is great.

 

As you say you may never find out why he lost it that day - could be that other things happened earlier in the day, and that was just the last straw. I know the children at my school have all been a bit wild this week - when it is windy they are always worse too.