Moderate learning diffculties

[hedders]

Ive been sent home today my dd new IEP her attainment levels and that she has moderate learning diffculties.

 

Yet again her IEP targets haven't changed, i now have confirmation that in one area independant writing she hasn,t made progress for 4yrs, says she has compherhension problems but the SLT says she hasn,t

 

Anyhow i spoken to the ed psy who will see dd in december and it seems that senco reffferal form is inacurately filled by himself so im glad i havent returned it back the ed psy given me advice and expecting all medical reports, ieps, school work etc.. from recpetion yr -yr4 i will send to her, which i will be hand delivering next week.

 

 

 

Anyhow info on MLD??

as she has diffculties with speech and language, sensory motor skills, social skills is this linked to MLD

[julie1]

hello

who diagnoised MLD was it the school or ED PSY ect. We are in the same situation with our dd2, she had a assement at school by ED psy and was on 1st centile for all tests with the exception of 1 test which only had a little delay. she was the one who suggested MLD and went to the LA to discuss dd2. we then got a letter in the post to say they were doing statutory assesment with the idea of her going to our local MLD school. WE are further on now and all assesments are now done the MLD school said she does not quite fit there criteria. She had EGG and MRI we are waiting for results if they show problems she will attend MLD school. She is in y6 and is working at a level 2b overall. She has not made progress from y2. However she was not delayed pre school fortunatly she was assessed at 4.5 years old, that showed she was ahead of her age cognitivly and socially. This is proof of not having MLD as you are either born with it or you have a brain injury. Anyway she is not a typical MLD child, she has signifcant specific difficulities, even the speach and language says no to MLD pead said no to MLD, but LA say she fits the profile as her IQ is 63. This is a very grey area that we are now fighting. She has difficulities in all areas memory, language, social skills ect but they were not always so evident. The pead thinks possible ASD or/and ADHD and is checking for brain leasions as born at 29 weeks.

[Sally44]

It all depends on cognitive function. An Educational Psychologist who has experience of ASDs will know what kinds of assessments to carry out. As most children with an ASD have language difficulties, they should not do just verbal or language based assessments. The difference in abilities can be quite astonishing. For example with my own son on non-verbal performance based assessments he is on a percentile of 93 (meaning he would be better than 93 out of 100 children), on verbal assessments such as understanding instructions he is on a percentile of 2 (meaning 98 children out of a 100 would perform better than him). These differences in ability are called a 'spiky profile'. Those with MLD tend to perform at the same level in all areas. Those with an ASD tend to function very well in certain tasks and perform poorly in others.

There can also be associated learning difficulties such as Dyslexia, auditory processing, short term memory or executive function difficulties that can all affect 'performance' during assessments. All these things need to be considered by the Ed Psychologist when they are deciding which assessments to use.

My own son is assessed as higher than average cognitive ability, but due to other difficulties including those listed above, he is age 8 and only just on the national curriculum level of 1C.

So it is all about identifying the difficulties and barriers to learning that the child has. For example a child with severe dyslexia could leave school having never learnt to read or write. But that may have no bearing on his cognitive ability and he could even be cognitively gifted, but if he cannot access literacy because of dyslexia then he can never demonstrate his learning and gain qualifications in the way the other children do. If this difficulty is recognised they can use things like computers with voice recognition programmes etc so that the child could record his knowledge.

As I have also mentioned previously, knowing the cognitive functioning of a child, along with the barriers to learning, are going to point you in the right direction for a suitable school placement.

Hope that makes things a bit clearer.

[Karen A]

Hi.As I understand it there are three different issues here.

Specific Learning difficulties.This includes dyslexia and dyspraxia.These can occurr across the range of intelligence.So a child could be very bright but still have SLD.In SLD there may well be an uneven profile.The Specific Learning difficulties also have a conyinuum from mild to severe.So a child could have a high IQ but severe dyslexia.Ben for example probably has a very high IQ but he has dyspraxia.There is a noticable discrepancy between his ability in some tests than in others.

 

Learning difficulties such as moderate or severe learning difficulties.This is a lower than expected cognitive ability in all areas.So it would not be expected that on cognitive testing there would be below average scores in all areas.

 

ASD.Which also occurrs across a spectrum and is also associated with both of the above .Ben also has AS.

 

It is easy to miss SLD if a full assessment has not been completed by an Educational Psychologist.For a long time it was considered that Ben was below average ability because he produced little written work.When Ben was assessed and given access to a key board he demonstrated that he was actually gifted in creative writing.His behaviour was also challenging because he was very able but was unable to express himself because he could not write more than a few words without getting cramp.

Assessing learning difficulties is I think the speciality of an EP rather than any other professional.Do continue to push for a detailed assessment.The EP who assessed Ben completed the wieshler [not sure if that is spelled right.]The school should not just be presuming that a child has moderate learning difficulties without detailed assessment.I think that would be the same as a SENCO deciding on an ASD dx just because they think it fits.

 

 

[JsMum]

 

 

Has she had a WISC IV this will determin her IQ score.

 

JsMumxxx

 

[JsMum]

 

 

 

There was a similiar thred a while back.

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...mp;#entry213151

 

JsMumxxx

 

[julie1]

I think it is very important not to base your childs inteligents on an IQ test regardless on what ever ED PSY does the test as i have said my dd2 IQ is 63 but the splt said my dd2 has a spikey profile as is not a child with MLD yet the ED PSY says she has a low IQ so she will noy be able to function in a mainstream school. There are lots of areas that she performs so badly on and unfortunatly they are the areas that the IQ test cover. They do not look at how well my dd2 reads or the fact that when and very ocassionally she gives answers to questions at a much higher level than you would expect from a child of 11 years. All im saying is be careful dont base everything on an IQ test.

[JsMum]

I think it is very important not to base your childs inteligents on an IQ test regardless on what ever ED PSY does the test as i have said my dd2 IQ is 63 but the splt said my dd2 has a spikey profile as is not a child with MLD yet the ED PSY says she has a low IQ so she will noy be able to function in a mainstream school. There are lots of areas that she performs so badly on and unfortunatly they are the areas that the IQ test cover. They do not look at how well my dd2 reads or the fact that when and very ocassionally she gives answers to questions at a much higher level than you would expect from a child of 11 years. All im saying is be careful dont base everything on an IQ test.

 

 

 

When I asked the LEA to fund a specialist school they asked me to visit a local LEA special school for Moderate Learning Difficulties, many of the children there were in my opinion more than moderate, some were severe, many were Autistic from Aspergers to severe Autism, the work they where doing on the interactive board for a maths lesson was way below Js level, if he were to participate in this class it would not challenge him and he would become agitated to the point of diruptive and esculate his behavioural issues, over time they would then try stratagies to control his behaviour but it wouldnt make any differece as the problem is the lesson cirruculum, no one was doing level 2/3 all the children were on much lower papers, for J this school did not meet his needs, so we opted for a specialist school that cater for the average to high intelligence with Specific Learning Difficulties, social and communication and behavioural needs and mental health disabilities.

 

Its astounded me the spikey profile and it goes to show once a school has it correct what potential a child can show, in English he is not even a level 1, yet in Science he is level 5b and may even be more but because of his communication and language impairments no one knows what his capabilities are because they could well be more than this, level 6, 7 even.

 

My son can bearly read and write independantly and has severe dyslexia but he is gaining high levels in certain subjects especially science, ICT, PE, Art, Food Tech, ect..... if he were in a moderate learning difficulties school then none of this would be possible as they do not cater for average intelligence, if he were in a mainstream setting again he wouldnt be able to even access the curriculum, getting a special school that caters for a childs individual need is vitally important which is why it is getting increasingly difficult because some children do not meet the profile of a MLD, EBD, Maintream school.

 

Some schools need to be spersific and specialise in the area of their difficulty/disability.

 

My son does not have MLD but the LEA were prepared to place him in one just because it was cheaper than placing him in a specialist school, it had nothing at all to do with meeting his needs just the LEA purse!!!!!!!well after further evidence and a proposal to sendist we won and J went to a specialist school.

 

Js been in his specialist school a year now and really excelling though there is still challenges and issues it is absaloutly the right school for J.

 

JsMumxxxxx

 

[hedders]

The senco has identified dd as having MLD, i was a bit suprised that dd hand delievered her pupil profile with it on. No discussions taken place by them with us and they didn't share this information when she was assesed by SLT 2 weeks ago.

 

There is no information on her draft referral form to Ed Psy ABOUT THIS just says teachers have no concerns .

 

 

 

Thanks for info is useful, i 'm reading the SEN cosde of pratice...

DD is on School action should she be on School action plus.

 

does MLD mean she's fine to stay in Mainstream School, what would the ed psy do ?? with this info

 

 

 

 

 

[julie1]

I do no of a few children with MLD in a mainstream school, however they are clearly not in the best school for them, but i expect this varys from school to school. The senco alone cannot label a child with MLD although im sure the information they provide the ED PSY is very important in identfiying your childs difficulities. The ED PSY needs to come and do there own assesments. If the SENCO says your dd has MLD she must have requsted a statutory assesment, then all assesments can be carried out. My dd2 has been turned down by our MLD school, we have asked for her to go to the specialist school that her two older siblins go to. The LA have said she is to severve for that school, but not severve enough for MLD school, so looks like tribunal no 3.

[hedders]

Confusing but interesting with your reply.

 

If the senco has applied for stat assessment surly parents would be informed and given consent.

 

 

I found out what information needs to be on the referral form to ed psy as i phoned her.

 

Now the only information the senco is sending is a letter from pead stating parents felt dd was falling behind her peers in learning etc..

And his response in the letter saying dd is making progress and the teacher assessments have proven that her writing has gone from 1c, 1b ,1a during 3 terms

 

I have now got evidence to prove this is wrong very strong evidence indeed.

 

Reasons for request:

 

DD is below average in her year group, she is however a happy girl who has her own circle of friends, she participiates in all lessons and her teachers do not have any real concerns.

 

Her parents have had concerns for many years about her progress in school, her speech and language has been considered a problem and has been referred 3 times.

After a meeting between parents school and SLT team it was agreed to refer dd to Ed Psy to see if there were any issues that were preventing her from making progress with writng.

Parents feel dd has not made progress with writing since yr 1.

 

Also on the form when written (what services are involved with the child )

 

senco has only included GP and School nurse -- hasn't mentioned she been under pead for last 4 years

As it says a caf form needs to be started if other services involved.

 

Also recommendation from staff member requesting service:

 

Form says. ...Speech and language therapists consider that it would be useful for the Educational Psychology Service to see if there are any issues preventing DD from making progress with writing. The school would like dd to be assessed to see if they have missed any issues affecting dd progress with writing.

 

 

 

 

So im confused a week later to recieve her pupil profile saying she has MLD.

[JsMum]

Confusing but interesting with your reply.

 

If the senco has applied for stat assessment surly parents would be informed and given consent.

 

 

I found out what information needs to be on the referral form to ed psy as i phoned her.

 

Now the only information the senco is sending is a letter from pead stating parents felt dd was falling behind her peers in learning etc..

And his response in the letter saying dd is making progress and the teacher assessments have proven that her writing has gone from 1c, 1b ,1a during 3 terms

 

I have now got evidence to prove this is wrong very strong evidence indeed.

 

Reasons for request:

 

DD is below average in her year group, she is however a happy girl who has her own circle of friends, she participiates in all lessons and her teachers do not have any real concerns.

 

Her parents have had concerns for many years about her progress in school, her speech and language has been considered a problem and has been referred 3 times.

After a meeting between parents school and SLT team it was agreed to refer dd to Ed Psy to see if there were any issues that were preventing her from making progress with writng.

Parents feel dd has not made progress with writing since yr 1.

 

Also on the form when written (what services are involved with the child )

 

senco has only included GP and School nurse -- hasn't mentioned she been under pead for last 4 years

As it says a caf form needs to be started if other services involved.

 

Also recommendation from staff member requesting service:

 

Form says. ...Speech and language therapists consider that it would be useful for the Educational Psychology Service to see if there are any issues preventing DD from making progress with writing. The school would like dd to be assessed to see if they have missed any issues affecting dd progress with writing.

 

 

 

 

So im confused a week later to recieve her pupil profile saying she has MLD.

 

So she hasnt had a WISC then, or any real assessments from a ed psych, or any observations been made from a ed psych to watch her interaction and social skills in groups of other children, they really need to look deeper into her speech and language, dyslexia, if you can afford it I would really recommend a private SALT, Ed Pych assessments to back up your concerns, the fact it is in writing in a official letter that there is concerns, that be it parents/ teachers then under the special educational needs act they should be carrying out assessments and putting in places provisions to support her.

 

I would write back to who ever wrote the MLD letter and express how have they come to this dicision?

 

JsMumxxxx

 

 

 

 

 

[Sally44]

The senco has identified dd as having MLD, i was a bit suprised that dd hand delievered her pupil profile with it on. No discussions taken place by them with us and they didn't share this information when she was assesed by SLT 2 weeks ago.

 

There is no information on her draft referral form to Ed Psy ABOUT THIS just says teachers have no concerns .

 

 

 

Thanks for info is useful, i 'm reading the SEN cosde of pratice...

DD is on School action should she be on School action plus.

 

does MLD mean she's fine to stay in Mainstream School, what would the ed psy do ?? with this info

 

The SENCO is not able to make that 'diagnosis'. They will probably be basing that assumption on your child's performance in class. But it could well be other factors that are causing that. For example you have said she has problems with language. So the way the lesson is given to her verbally maybe the problem. Or indeed it could be other things. Only an Ed/Clinical Psychologist should do assessments on cognitive ability and they should not be IQ tests. To get a broad spectrum result they can assess using language based assessments and then performance based assessments where language is not needed. I don't know all the tests available. But there are many. And, as most have posted, you do tend to get a spiky profile with an ASD child. They tend to do better in some areas and poorer in others.

[Karen A]

does MLD mean she's fine to stay in Mainstream School, what would the ed psy do ?? with this info

 

Hi.Some children with MLD can do fine in a mainstream school with appropriate support but others would make more progress in a Specialist environment.The most important issue I think is how appropriate the support is for the specific needs the child has.

I would expect the EP to be doing detailed assessments to establish exactly what the degree of Learning Difficulty is and to put together a plan of support to enable your child to progress.

 

[Karen A]

As it says a caf form needs to be started if other services involved.

 

Hi I am not sure where you are at regarding requesting a Statutary Assessment.

If you wish to you can request one yourself.If you are not convinced that the school will do it then don't wait around for them.

The CAF is a completely different process.It does not have to be done before a Statutary Assessment can be undertaken.

So please don't let anyone distract you with details regarding the CAF.It could take ages to get the paper work done.Anything agree through a CAF is not binding and there is no obligation for anyone to do anything aS regards SEN on the basis of the CAF anyway.

There was a thread with info on the CAF running in the last couple of weeks that might be useful.

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=22698

Edited October 26, 2009 by Karen A

[hedders]

Sending some info to ed psy tomorrow as i dont feel the school will send much.

 

Anyhow dd tutor who has links to the school has advised me not to send in any medial reports that have my concerns of ASD?

Anyreason-

 

I showed the tutor a few days later the info im sending, she said you could take the school to court, and you would win?? Dont know why she said that.

 

[Sally44]

I would be suspicious of anyone asking you to withhold information about your child and your concerns about them. All professionals need the 'full picture' for them to make decisions about assessments and considerations about diagnosis or who to refer onto.

[shaz71]

Sending some info to ed psy tomorrow as i dont feel the school will send much.

 

Anyhow dd tutor who has links to the school has advised me not to send in any medial reports that have my concerns of ASD?

Anyreason-

 

I showed the tutor a few days later the info im sending, she said you could take the school to court, and you would win?? Dont know why she said that.

 

Hi Katie i haven't spoken to you in moons, my computer did one and when i got it fixed i couldn't get on bounty and forgot about this forum i just found it again at oclock this morning.

 

I have just read your posts on here about time they got things moving how long have you had concerns and they fobbed you off. Good for you hopefully the ed psych will get to the bottom of it and get her the help she needs. It sounds to me they are still beating around the bush though, is it because they don't want you to give them the look of i told you so.......

 

Melissa didn't sit the sats last year as they knew that she would have gotten a level 0 and made the school look bad the teachers words exactly, they put her at level one teacher assessment no sub levels just 1 because out of a full page of words they recognised five highlighted them and put that she is doing sentence like structures with some recognisable words so she got level one for reading level one she is on stage 3-4 books i think probably the same your daughter was on last year if i remember rightly? For maths she is also level one because she can count to 30 although she starts to get confused a bit.

 

For her report general they put she is a lively energetic girl that has a close knit group of friends (which funnily enough flap their hands ) and can act impulsive at times hitting out at other children and saying mean things to them. Going to the parents evening next week and see what this teacher as to say about how she is doing.

 

She has an iep that i pushed for through the salt for auditory memory as she has really poor memory oh and also i can't remember if i have spoken to you since she has been diagnosed as having reflux like her younger sister who also has behavioural issues, also going next week to see the peadiatrician to see what he is going to do? Speak to you soon. Sharon x

[hedders]

Hi Sharon, good to hear your about still.

 

Its either they dont like i told you so...

 

or they dont want children labelled in the school.They wont share information with external proffessionals and keep telling them she has no problems.

 

Anyhow ... ooohhh you should of saw the folder i hand delievered to Ed Psy 5 YEARS WORTH of paperwork, i,m not bothered if the ed psy thinks its irrelevent, i found it very theraputic all these years of moaning and complaining and not getting anywhere. It feels a load has been taken of my shoulders.

 

I even put in letters i wrote to senco / headteacher from 4 years ago stating my concerns of dd development, minutes from meetings with them and advice sent from parentparntership over the years.

3 years worth of Literacy and Numeracy taken from school books and sent the draft referral form Senco which shows how much they are trying to cover their tracks.

So today is a good day.

 

 

[shaz71]

Hi Sharon, good to hear your about still.

 

Its either they dont like i told you so...

 

or they dont want children labelled in the school.They wont share information with external proffessionals and keep telling them she has no problems.

 

Anyhow ... ooohhh you should of saw the folder i hand delievered to Ed Psy 5 YEARS WORTH of paperwork, i,m not bothered if the ed psy thinks its irrelevent, i found it very theraputic all these years of moaning and complaining and not getting anywhere. It feels a load has been taken of my shoulders.

 

I even put in letters i wrote to senco / headteacher from 4 years ago stating my concerns of dd development, minutes from meetings with them and advice sent from parentparntership over the years.

3 years worth of Literacy and Numeracy taken from school books and sent the draft referral form Senco which shows how much they are trying to cover their tracks.

So today is a good day.

 

 

Hi Katie again, glad it feels like you have a lot off your shoulders, i can't wait for that time, as they are still at the same conclusion some children aren't academic, she is one of the younger ones, like your school mine sounds the same nothing wrong with her. I am on a webster stratton parenting course on the 7th week although it is good it isn't working for her behaviour, i have done the play and still doing it and the positive praise and yes it has brought us closer and a lot of her behaivour i have dealt with in different ways like putting her summer clothes away so arguing there, also she doesn't wear socks much anymore more tights as they don't fall down as much and leave lines what she calls them altough she does prefer nothing on her feet. And we don't go to many crowded places anymore not if we can help it keep it to open fields, parks etc so less traumatic for everyone, also bought a trampoline so she can jump to her hearts content and a bike they have been godsends. Not saying that she doesn't still have her moments but not as many as i am trying to find the triggers to her behaviour so i can cope with it better, a lot is frustration due to her learning difficulties and understanding level and immaturity. But glad to see you are at last getting somewhere. Glad you are happier and i am sure you will be once you know for sure. Sharon x <'>

[JsMum]

Hi Hedders all the past educational evidence where you have collected over the years keep them safe, if the EP isnt at this time interested then thats up to her, but if she is ignors it and you do get as far as tribunal, I tell you they wont ignore it,

keep a log of how the education proffessionals respond to your concerns and written reports, one day they will be responded to Im sure if it gets as far as sendist. ps also get her to put it in writing that your reports and evidence is irrelivent, that way you have evidence of her responce! to your concerns.

 

JsMumxxx

 

Edited November 2, 2009 by JsMum

[hedders]

Hi Hedders all the past educational evidence where you have collected over the years keep them safe, if the EP isnt at this time interested then thats up to her, but if she is ignors it and you do get as far as tribunal, I tell you they wont ignore it,

keep a log of how the education proffessionals respond to your concerns and written reports, one day they will be responded to Im sure if it gets as far as sendist. ps also get her to put it in writing that your reports and evidence is irrelivent, that way you have evidence of her responce! to your concerns.

 

JsMumxxx

Thanks that's useful to know, for our next step with Ed Psy.

 

I have arranged an appointment with pead she was over due anyhow, her pervious Pead has recently left and will be under a new one.

What should i expect from appointment, she would of recieved the documents from school saying she has MLD, my first concern in 2006 was regarding her development which hasn't been looked into, not sure if she will wait for Ed Psy report, would like to move forward with pead team been stagment for the last 3 years.