Mat go to school for half a day,whats your experience?

[justine1]

Hi I went to see the headteacher today after my son was excluded for two days,she mentioned two options that we will consider if his behaviour continues to get worse,one is internal exclusion:where he will be put in a separate class for most of the time and mix with kids at playtime,but I will need to do this as there is nobody to take this responsibilty(this of course is out of the question as IU have two small kids they cant come into the school the whole day!)the second option is half day of school where he can finish at 12pm,which makes sense as 90% of the time he hurts kids after lunch time.I am happy with the second option but I wonder are the school not obligated to first try and get support for my son so that he can attend school fulltime?If they did this it would be more practical in the long run because I am going to Uni in Sept 2010 and therefore cant fetch him at 12.Dont really know what is going on?I have explained so many times to the head that I need to sort out a long term solution for me and for him.Maybe in the end I will have to defer my uni place till 2011 which I will hate because already put it off for 3yrs.

[cardiff_mum]

my son is in the same situation, school from 9am til midday, the school do not have to give any support unless a statement has been issued. does your child have any LSA support? talk to the headteaher, my J has the behavoural support team involved and they provide his LSA for the mornings. the problem is, without a statement, the school dont have funding/appropriate teaching staff to offer full time placements.

if your child hasnt been statemented, get on to ur LEA, they will help you do this, also, i dont know what area your from, but in cardiff there is a group called SNAP who are brilliant at telling you what you need to do and how to do it.

my J is halfway through the statement process. it taked 6 months so the quicker its started the better. once a statement is issued, make sure if fully explains the help your child needs, if you have a statement that says your child needs 1:1 LSA all the time, then the school have to provide it. go back to the school, talk to the head and the SENCO. its rough, i know, my son has been excluded numerous times, and by law the school have to send me a letter every time, stating why hes been excluded, and gettin a letter saying your 4 yr old "assults" pupils and staff is so distressin.

i wish u lots of luck, and make sure you dont get fobbed off by the school.

 

[julie1]

Hi I went to see the headteacher today after my son was excluded for two days,she mentioned two options that we will consider if his behaviour continues to get worse,one is internal exclusion:where he will be put in a separate class for most of the time and mix with kids at playtime,but I will need to do this as there is nobody to take this responsibilty(this of course is out of the question as IU have two small kids they cant come into the school the whole day!)the second option is half day of school where he can finish at 12pm,which makes sense as 90% of the time he hurts kids after lunch time.I am happy with the second option but I wonder are the school not obligated to first try and get support for my son so that he can attend school fulltime?If they did this it would be more practical in the long run because I am going to Uni in Sept 2010 and therefore cant fetch him at 12.Dont really know what is going on?I have explained so many times to the head that I need to sort out a long term solution for me and for him.Maybe in the end I will have to defer my uni place till 2011 which I will hate because already put it off for 3yrs.

The inclusion team that work with the LA have just given my dd2 school £500 to pay for 1-1 next term for lunch time support, she may not be there but thats another story. I would talk to your LA SEN officer and see if there is any funding for your son.

[JsMum]

 

 

Have I got this right, are the school asking you to look after him if they do the internal exclusion?

 

My son went part time school but it was classed as flexi schooling as I continued to home educate him so he got a full time table, but this was far than ideal, he also was taught in a seperate room and at playtimes he didnt have to go out he could do a jigsaw, he did have a LSA during his time there, but he also refused to go to school and he only managed a handful of lessons, in the end he went to a specialist school and he has a full time LSA during the day and a one to one carer during the evening as he is unpredictable and aggressive.

 

I would insist that the responsibility of your child lies firmly with the school and you insist on full time one to one if he is a risk to other children/staff including the breaktimes.

 

I Strongly urge you to contact

 

IPSEA

 

National Autistic Society Educational line.

 

Contact A Family

 

Network 81

 

For more advice, do not commit anything yet until you have more information and what your sons rights are.

 

JsMumxxxx

 

[Karen A]

Hi.

I thought I would check I understand as I cannot believe I understand.

Are they suggesting that you would have to go into school to supervise your son during intenal exclusion ?

I am almost certain that half days attendance would amount to a daily half day exclusion.

The school would have to document each afternoon as a seperate half day exclusion.

They would neeed to follow the DFES guidelines for the number of half-day exclusions allowed.

They would have to write to you regarding each half day exclusion and notify you regarding your right to appeal.

I am not sure even then whether this would be legal it may well not be.

If I undersatnd you correctly then a parent coming to school to supervise their child in internal exclusion is certainly not legal.

Regardless of anything else government guidance on safeguarding children requires that you are CRB checked if you are in school in contact with children even if it is in practice just your own.

ACE produce some excellent information on exclusion.I will find a link.

http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-educ...mation-pack.htm

 

This might be useful too.

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp...215&a=11085

I think it is worth writing formally to the HT to document that you will not accept either option.

Please do obtain some advice from IPSEA or NAS education advice line.

I am not an expert.However if I am right I think it would be worth saying in your letter that you believe that if each exclusion is not formally documeneted you believe it would be illegal.

There may well be an officer at your LA who is responsible for monitoring exclusions.If you phone the LA switchboard [education] it may well be worth speaking to that officer.

The HT at my sons primary school once attempted to send him home for the afternooon.She got a shock when I refused to take him and the LA phoned to confirm that what she had attempted to do was not legal.

 

If you have not considered requesting a Statutary Assessment you might want to consider that too.

A parent can write to the LA requesting a Statutary Assesssment themself.

Does your son have a diagnosis of anything ?

How old is he ?

 

Sorry to fire lots of questions back.The answers make a big difference regarding possible options.

Does your child have an IEP and are they on the SEN register at school action or action plus ?

Edited November 26, 2009 by Karen A

[justine1]

Hi.

I thought I would check I understand as I cannot believe I understand.

Are they suggesting that you would have to go into school to supervise your son during intenal exclusion ?

I am almost certain that half days attendance would amount to a daily half day exclusion.

The school would have to document each afternoon as a seperate half day exclusion.

They would neeed to follow the DFES guidelines for the number of half-day exclusions allowed.

They would have to write to you regarding each half day exclusion and notify you regarding your right to appeal.

I am not sure even then whether this would be legal it may well not be.

If I undersatnd you correctly then a parent coming to school to supervise their child in internal exclusion is certainly not legal.

Regardless of anything else government guidance on safeguarding children requires that you are CRB checked if you are in school in contact with children even if it is in practice just your own.

ACE produce some excellent information on exclusion.I will find a link.

http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-educ...mation-pack.htm

I think it is worth writing formally to the HT to document that you will not accept either option.

Please do obtain some advice from IPSEA or NAS education advice line.

I am not an expert.However if I am right I think it would be worth saying in your letter that you believe that if each exclusion is not formally documeneted you believe it would be illegal.

There may well be an officer at your LA who is responsible for monitoring exclusions.If you phone the LA switchboard [education] it may well be worth speaking to that officer.

The HT at my sons primary school once attempted to send him home for the afternooon.She got a shock when I refused to take him and the LA phoned to confirm that what she had attempted to do was not legal.

 

If you have not considered requesting a Statutary Assessment you might want to consider that too.

A parent can write to the LA requesting a Statutary Assesssment themself.

Does your son have a diagnosis of anything ?

How old is he ?

 

Sorry to fire lots of questions back.The answers make a big difference regarding possible options.

Does your child have an IEP and are they on the SEN register at school action or action plus ?

Hi thank you all for your response.Thank you Karen.Yes this is correct they expect me to look after him,my brother who looks after kids at an after school club also was surprised and mentioned the CRB thing.I am not sure how they are documenting it,as far as exclusion goes I do strongly believe they are doing this all because I asked for them to get a statement so now they may be rushing to gather evidence???I dont know but just think it is suspecious that he was excluded for two days the very same day I mentioned the statement!I have decided to write to the LA requesting the assesment.Today,after I posted this on here I was called at 10.30am told to come collect him (again)after he jumped on a child,at 12pm,I agreed and got the teacher to give him work to take home.Then at 1.30 I recieved a message to say I should have brought him back!I was shocked this was not my understanding after all the teacher had given his bag and work to do at home????When I went to fetch my eldest the headteacher said I was supposed to bring him back I told her if I knew that I wouldnt have collected him,I do not drive and they know this he has an older brother at school so I would have had to walk (15min) 6 times!!!!She said when it happens again I can sit in school with him at lunchtime,I refused saying it is not fair on me or more importantly my two younger kids,she seemed annoyed about this.It is almost like they taking advantage as I am not working at the moment,how would they cope if I was???I am quite angry at the school.He hasnt got a diagnosis as yet he has seen a paeditrition and recieved a report stating he has social and communication problems,incl lack of eye contact,she wants to see him in Jan where a diagnosis will be made.He is 6 and he is in yr.2.He has an IEP,it has just been updated only has two things listed one is for him to sit still on the mat without annoying others the second is to not hurt anyone at playtime,all they doing is bringing him for lego play at break so he only gets short play outside he is allowed to take one friend with to play lego.They have said they will give him a cushion on the mat where he can sit,main problem now is he always wnats to be first on the mat.The IEP is on action plus.The head explained today that all incidents incl when he refuses to do something or hides under table is documented on a system where it can be retrieved by the Paeditrition,not sure what the system is though???Thanks again

[av16]

Hi thank you all for your response.Thank you Karen.Yes this is correct they expect me to look after him,my brother who looks after kids at an after school club also was surprised and mentioned the CRB thing.I am not sure how they are documenting it,as far as exclusion goes I do strongly believe they are doing this all because I asked for them to get a statement so now they may be rushing to gather evidence???I dont know but just think it is suspecious that he was excluded for two days the very same day I mentioned the statement!I have decided to write to the LA requesting the assesment.Today,after I posted this on here I was called at 10.30am told to come collect him (again)after he jumped on a child,at 12pm,I agreed and got the teacher to give him work to take home.Then at 1.30 I recieved a message to say I should have brought him back!I was shocked this was not my understanding after all the teacher had given his bag and work to do at home????When I went to fetch my eldest the headteacher said I was supposed to bring him back I told her if I knew that I wouldnt have collected him,I do not drive and they know this he has an older brother at school so I would have had to walk (15min) 6 times!!!!She said when it happens again I can sit in school with him at lunchtime,I refused saying it is not fair on me or more importantly my two younger kids,she seemed annoyed about this.It is almost like they taking advantage as I am not working at the moment,how would they cope if I was???I am quite angry at the school.He hasnt got a diagnosis as yet he has seen a paeditrition and recieved a report stating he has social and communication problems,incl lack of eye contact,she wants to see him in Jan where a diagnosis will be made.He is 6 and he is in yr.2.He has an IEP,it has just been updated only has two things listed one is for him to sit still on the mat without annoying others the second is to not hurt anyone at playtime,all they doing is bringing him for lego play at break so he only gets short play outside he is allowed to take one friend with to play lego.They have said they will give him a cushion on the mat where he can sit,main problem now is he always wnats to be first on the mat.The IEP is on action plus.The head explained today that all incidents incl when he refuses to do something or hides under table is documented on a system where it can be retrieved by the Paeditrition,not sure what the system is though???Thanks again

His IEP targets do not seem helpful to me-is he provided with any strategies to be able to do these things as they are far too woolly. I would expect to see something saying how he could be helped to meet the targets with an expectation of some sort of measurability - sit without annoying.... for 5 mins etc with some help provided - a visual reminder card/ reminder from TA and some sort of encouragement/reward. I'm sure if he could do these things then some of the time he would. The fact he has targets to do these things won't magically make him able to do them - unless he is taught explicitly what he should do. (Reminds me of my son's target last year - to avoid getting detentions. He would have loved to be able to do this but the target didn't have a magical effect I'm afraid - he's still getting them now)

Looks like you've got a fight on your hands - the school seems very unreasonable in their expectations - what do the LA think? or the attendance people?

Good luck <'>

AV

[justine1]

Just found more info on internal exclusion.It states that it is not a legal form of exclusion and therefore no requirement for schools to follow guidance.The internal room is usually supervised by a senior staff member but not always the case.It does state that because of staffing,money is an issue to fund an internal exclusion room.

[Kathryn]

I don't blame you for being angry Justine. Both options you have been given are totally unsatisfactory. Of course the school should be supporting your son after 12 pm and if they can't do it, he needs a statement. A good idea to start the sttutory assessment process without delay.

 

See IPSEA's exclusion guidance sheets which includes model letters you can write (see no.1).

 

http://www.ipsea.org.uk/What-you-need-to-know/Exclusion

 

Also get yourself a copy of Improving Behaviour and Attendance which is the official complete government guidance on exclusions: it includes a section on SEN pupils which is very useful. Link below:

 

http://publications.teachernet.gov.uk/defa...00573-2008&

 

K x

Edited November 27, 2009 by Kathryn