Urinating on the carpet????

[justine1]

Hi

Sam has got into the habit of urinating on the carpet in he lounge,he doesnt do a full "wee" just a little and he does it under the coffee tables.Yesterday he urinated in his trousers.I dont know exactly why he is doing it,he has not done this since he was 3!

 

I know he has a fear of leaving the room on his own,but our downstairs loo is literally opposite the sitting room and he has always managed to go,as long as the light is on.He doesnt do it in front of me,usually when I am cooking in the evening.His fear seems to have increased,my eldest used to go with him to the toilet and he still goes upstairs with him to change or if he needs something,but I thnk his patience is wearing thin.Not sure what to do.If he is left he gets so hestirical we have tried this many times,sounds cruel but we want him to be more independent.

 

Thank you.

[baddad]

Hi Justine - Haven't really got a clue on this one, TBH, but it sounds more psychological than medical iykwim?

This doesn't sound like it's the problem, because you say he only started this recently and it wasn't a problem before, but it may help even if only as a 'distraction' or 'target' that you can reward him for achieving: When he was younger my son couldn't always recognise the 'signals' that he needed the loo earlier enough to get to the loo... I talked to him about recognising those signals, and the need for him to try and be aware of them earlier. We talked about a 'scale from one to ten' and the fact that he wasn't reacting until he was on nine - nine and a half; and that he needed to start reacting at about 'six or seven' to be sure of finding a toilet in time (scales are very useful - my son used them for everything and still does occassionally for rating my cooking etc!)...

Like I say, it doesn't sound like that's the problem here, but even so the strategy might work for different reasons.

 

Hope that helps

 

L&P

 

BD

[smiley1590]

maybe anxiety related that linked and connected with situation ....??? has this been looked into? as fear of you leaving the room and him being on his own sound very anxiety provoked to me!? why did he do it when he was three? was that just youngness or something else behind it?

 

XKLX

 

 

[Karen A]

 

Hi.

If it is a new thing I think it would be worth requesting that your GP send off a urine sample just to rule out a possible bladder infection.

The weeing on the carpet might well be related to anxiety but I think it is worth ruling out physical causes since this is a development.

Ben has always had problems with going to the loo for both urine and his bowels.

He still will not open his bowels unless D or myself are outside of the bathroom where he can talk to us and know we are close by.

He will do a quick wee on the downstairs toilet but wil not go on his own outside the house.

He finds tioleting more difficult when he is anxious.So Sam may be having difficulties with toileting as a sign that he is unsettled at school.

It would certainly be worth including in information re the Statutary Assessment when you send in your information.

Ben certainly needs a lot more reasurance that we are around when he is anxious.We can guage that something is not right because he cannot then cope in the living room alone for more than a few minutes and keeps popping into the kitchen when I am cooking tea.He also shouts several times before going to sleep about small things just to check we are there.

Ben is 11.

I think Sam is 6.It is actually very common for 6 year olds to have periods of being wet if they are a bit unsettled or under the weather it is just that parents don't talk about it over coffee.

If Sam does not want to be alone in the toilet he may be putting off going.He might then just do a little wee when he is desperate.

It might be worth taking Sam at regular times when you are in the house as you would a much younger child.

See if he will do a wee if you stay with him then gradually increase the time between toileting.

Unfortunately this is not a short cut to independence.

However it might be easier for Sam to be more independent once he is more settled at school.

Karen.

[justine1]

Thank you Baddad,smiley and Karen.I definatley think its school related,it started last week when everything began to spiral at school.I agree he is anxious,he wont be left in a room on his own,only recently he became confident enough to play in his room on his own during the day,but even if we switch every light on he wont be upstairs alone.He literally shakes with fear if he is alone,he jumps if the neighbours are talking outside,especially when people take there bins out,its horrible,looks like he is destressed.I mentioned the fear issue when he went for his assesment,I think the Paed just put it down to his AS.Thank you,I will try some of the techniques.

[Karen A]

Thank you Baddad,smiley and Karen.I definatley think its school related,it started last week when everything began to spiral at school.I agree he is anxious,he wont be left in a room on his own,only recently he became confident enough to play in his room on his own during the day,but even if we switch every light on he wont be upstairs alone.He literally shakes with fear if he is alone,he jumps if the neighbours are talking outside,especially when people take there bins out,its horrible,looks like he is destressed.I mentioned the fear issue when he went for his assesment,I think the Paed just put it down to his AS.Thank you,I will try some of the techniques.

 

Hi again.

From other information you have posted in the last couple of days [sam hiding under tables etc at school] ,the urinating on the carpet and the information above it sounds as though Sam is in a similar state of mind to how Ben was when we requested a Statutary Assessment.

At that time Ben was very anxious indeed and this was acted out in very challenging behaviour at school.

He was also almost excluded.

I know it is very difficult and stressful to manage.

If Sam has an AS diagnosis but the changes are new although they are related to AS they should still be taken seriously.

If the wetting and anxiety were just due to AS they would have always have been there.

If this is a development then to me that is like a red flag that something else is making Sam more anxious.

When do you see the paediatrician again?

It may well be worth doing all you can to feel less anxious.I know only too well how difficult that is with everything going on. <'> <'> <'>

Ben is often more anxious when I am anxious.

If you are able to obtain some support and agreement to Statutary Assessment and things become more settled then the wetting may stop.

 

I know it is not a nice situation to be in but I can offer some consolation.

When Ben was in a similar situation three years ago he obtained a Statement and we were given a lot of support because it was recognised that it was needed.

<'> <'>

Karen.

 

 

[justine1]

Hi again.

From other information you have posted in the last couple of days [sam hiding under tables etc at school] ,the urinating on the carpet and the information above it sounds as though Sam is in a similar state of mind to how Ben was when we requested a Statutary Assessment.

At that time Ben was very anxious indeed and this was acted out in very challenging behaviour at school.

He was also almost excluded.

I know it is very difficult and stressful to manage.

If Sam has an AS diagnosis but the changes are new although they are related to AS they should still be taken seriously.

If the wetting and anxiety were just due to AS they would have always have been there.

If this is a development then to me that is like a red flag that something else is making Sam more anxious.

When do you see the paediatrician again?

It may well be worth doing all you can to feel less anxious.I know only too well how difficult that is with everything going on. <'> <'> <'>

Ben is often more anxious when I am anxious.

If you are able to obtain some support and agreement to Statutary Assessment and things become more settled then the wetting may stop.

 

I know it is not a nice situation to be in but I can offer some consolation.

When Ben was in a similar situation three years ago he obtained a Statement and we were given a lot of support because it was recognised that it was needed.

<'> <'>

Karen.

Thank you so much Karen it is o nice to know someone has actually "been there" I go back to the paediatrition in 5months time.If the urinating gets worse I will go to the GP.The anxiety of being left alone has been there since he was a baby,he was very clingy had to keep him with me 24/7,when I cooked,when I cleaned,when I needed the loo!Even other adults like my dad couldnt comfort him if I "dissappeared upstairs" he would scream as if someone was murdering him I just feel since we moved here in April 2009 he has relaxed alot,he even plays out front with neighbours kids.Now he seems to have taken five steps back I do hope that when he gets things sorted at school things will get better all round Thank you again all your posts have been most helpful <'>

[Karen A]

Thank you so much Karen it is o nice to know someone has actually "been there" I go back to the paediatrition in 5months time.If the urinating gets worse I will go to the GP.The anxiety of being left alone has been there since he was a baby,he was very clingy had to keep him with me 24/7,when I cooked,when I cleaned,when I needed the loo!Even other adults like my dad couldnt comfort him if I "dissappeared upstairs" he would scream as if someone was murdering him I just feel since we moved here in April 2009 he has relaxed alot,he even plays out front with neighbours kids.Now he seems to have taken five steps back I do hope that when he gets things sorted at school things will get better all round Thank you again all your posts have been most helpful <'>

 

<'> <'>

It is possible that if the LA agree to SA the paediatrician might need to see you sooner as part of the assessment process which would be good.

I am glad to be of help.

As my elder son has now been sick 6 times I had no plans for a wild time this morning anyway.

 

[JsMum]

 

 

 

It sounds like his behaviour are also related to seperation anxiety???? only saying because J has this problem too with not wanting to go into different rooms, and every light been on in the house, the urinating, agree sounds related to anxiety, but also wondered if this was also a territary thing, It sounds bizaree I know, so apologise if your offened, but that fact he is only weeing a little bit, has he done this at school? my son once weed all over me in a fit of temper, he was around six at the time. It was uttly distrubing, the doctor put this down to his impaired communication skills and it was the only way he could express his anger at the time.

 

Agree that he need physical examination, just ensure there is no physical reason.

 

If you agree this could be a seperation issue we did lots of stratagies for seperation anxiety, I also put in CCTV in his room with a monitor, we got this from maplin, for around 80 pounds, it gave J the reasurance that I was watching him.

 

J has a lot of fears and worrys so we worked on why he was scared to leave me, and we worked on this, mainly throw art therapy and private councilling.

 

JsMumxxx

 

 

[jimssmom]

My son does this when he is tired and can't be bothered to go to the toilet. This may not apply to your son, but thought i'd share it xx

[lisac]

My adult son goes through phases of doing this. No one has any idea why . All I know is that ignoring it and acting like it hasnt happened is the only way to deal with it ( easier said than done , i know) . Best of luck, x

[lil_me]

Know a child at present who does this a lot because he doesn't like the smell of what is there....to the extreme he's done it on his best friend deliberately (lucky he has a good best friend) so he has a 'wee sheet' we cut a corner of his linen off, he has it in a bag and can smell it if he needs to....this might not seem hygenic but better than wee everywhere and nothing settles him like pee smell at the mo so the only choice

[sheuk]

Hi, I know this sounds a little obvious, but have you asked him why he's doing it?

with regards being alone and going upstairs my son is very similar so I've got a set of plastic draws downstairs in the kitchen-right next to the front room, it took a while but he will now go into the kitchen to get some fresh clothes if he has an ''accident''

[justine1]

Hi

I have had to come back to this post because Sam has started this again and he is now bedwetting to.He isnt weeing in the lounge he does it upstairs in the passage or even in the bath/bathroom floor.He had been fine since about a week after the post but he sarted again on Monday.

The bedwetting is new,he kept saying he didnt wee but that the sheet and his pjs were just wet.I didnt want to hound him over it as he looked upset.

 

Should I take him to the GP? I know its more a psychological thing but his next paed appt is only in 2mths time.

[baddad]

I think I'd try to get that Paed appointment brought forward. If there are no obvious anxieties attached to the behaviour (i.e. fear of the dark/being in the room alone) and he's telling you nothing like that applies, and there's no medical consideration - failure to recognise 'signals etc (he's not wetting himself, and is moving into other rooms so he won't be seen, so that other room could be the toilet if he chose to), then it probbaly is psychological. It could be a 'control' thing - not in the sense of controlling your behaviour but in feeling he has some control over his own actions. Knowing what he should be doing and not doing it is evidence of 'self-will' and 'self-determination', just projected in a negative direction. I wonder whether maybe this could be linked with Dad, and maybe with the relationship that your youngest has with dad? Maybe he's feeling a bit left out of that and needs some reassurance that while Dad and Sam do have a special connection the special connection is there for dad and him (and your other two) too. There's a lot happened in the past couple of years - new baby, dad moving out etc - and those shifting dynamics must be very difficult for a 6yr old even when handled brilliantly by the adults concerned. Maybe the responses he sees are reassuring too, psychologically. You cleaning it up (an act of 'caring'), your reassurances that he's not being 'judged' - all that kind of stuff can be feedback that he is wanted and loved etc. Not that I'm suggesting that he's not getting plenty of that anyway, but just that all the changes that have occurred mean he needs a bit more(?)

I remember seeing a thing (play, not documentary) years ago on telly where a little boy kept a poo in a dressing table drawer. His parents were horrified when they found it, but for the boy it was something that was uniquely his, over which he had total control. It was the control that reassured him - not the poo, if that makes sense!

On the downside, of course, there's a big difference between having some control and self-determination and seeking control/domination over others, so it's a tricky line to negotiate.

 

All of that, of course, could be complete rubbish, but hopefully some food for thought in there somewhere.

 

L&P

 

BD

[justine1]

Thank you Baddad.That is helpful.

I have told their father that its not fair on the other boys that he only takes Dan(4) he just keeps saying he cant.The thing is I have offered to let him stay here with the boys,he said no and he wont even spend a full day out with the other three,he will come for 3hrs max. and then go with Dan.

I think my eldest also feels he needs his dads time now as he is getting to that age(as you may have read in my off topic post)and I spoke to my ex about this on wednesday all he can do is blame me for leaving him

Two weeks ago Sam got in his dads car,he was taking my youngest and Dan,so he said he will take Sam for a drive around but then he only went to the bottom of the road and came back,Sam waited for his dad to leave and he started crying.

 

Now my ex has started taking the baby as well,since easter the baby has become closer to his dad,so in a way its made things even worse because now its just Sam and my eldest,I guess they cant understand why they cant go.

It is frustrating for me but in a way I do understand.

 

The thing is Sam was being observed at school this week by some autism teachers and I also thought this may be why he is wetting now he told me they all stand over him watching him all the time and its annoying.

 

I will try and get them to move the paed appt forward,thanks for the advice.

[baddad]

Hi again -

 

If it's difficult for your ex to take all at once because of space/managing whatever maybe he could take the boys in turn? I know that wouldn't be great for Dan, but maybe you could work in a 'special dispensation' for him and negotiate with the other boys for him to get every other week or something 'cos he's 'a bit younger and needs the reassurance'? Kids can be amazingly considerate about this kind of thing just so long as they've got a handle on the 'whys' - it's only when it all seems to be happening around them that they get confused/upset. Obviously all of that is going to depend on dad's cooperation too, but if he's genuinely got the kid's best interests at heart (which it sounds as though he has) he'll see the logic...

Thinking of it from dad's POV, he may be feeling that the older boys are a bit of a 'lost cause' for him - because they're a little bit older/independent and don't seem to need him as much as Dan and the baby? If this stuff is related to the separation, then it only goes to prove that they do, but just in a different way.

 

I'm hugely in favour of good, cooperative parenting after couples split up (you may have stumbled across some of my rants on the subject elsewhere on the forum! ), and I do think, in this regard, that dads more often than not get the thin edge of the wedge. But it is totally unfair and unreasonable of him to expect to be able to offer levels of support and interaction to two of his kids without offering the same commitment to the other two. In a similar vein, it is totally understandable if he was the 'injured party' (by which I mean the one asked to leave rather than doing the leaving as opposed to implying a wider observation) in the separation that he might feel angry and want to blame you - but that is his problem and yours and has nowt to do with the kids, or the unfair organisation of the time he can spend with them that excludes the older boys.

 

Another thought that's just occurred... it's a bit of a role reversal, but I know of many mum's who absolutely ADORE babies, but seem to lose interest in them when they get to school. It does tie into that whole 'dependency' thing, I think. On the other hand there are some dads that only seem to grow into their kids (boys especially) between the ages of around 3 and 10. Before that, they're too little, really, and after they start to be a bit too lippy and grown up and (heaven forbid) a bit of a 'challenge' to the Alpha Male. It may be that your ex is more like one of those baby adoring mums, or that the circumstances now (as i suggested above) have sort of morphed him into one.

 

Anyhoo - hope there's something useful in there somewhere

 

L&P

 

BD

[baranigirl]

I am rather shocked by their father's behaviour! That is certainly an anxiety causing situation for all of the kids

 

My oldest DD suffered secondary enuresis due to stress and anxieties. She was clean and dry from age 2 and when she started mainstream school at age 5 she started wetting herself and the bed too. Nobody took me seriously and said it was age related, she refused to use the toilet anywhere but at home until she was 13! Once her periods started everything stopped it was as if her body needed to mature as well as her anxieties (her father openly blamed me for causing her stress in an enuretic meeting we both attended after his inistence)

 

I would deffo see the paed earlier and if not then the GP as Sam needs some help with this as it will not just go away on it's own after my experiences.

 

btw DD1 is now 16 and still struggles with using other toilets away from home and is a very sensitive kid, but aside from that she has not had any accidents in years

Edited April 30, 2010 by baranigirl

[justine1]

I am rather shocked by their father's behaviour! That is certainly an anxiety causing situation for all of the kids

 

My oldest DD suffered secondary enuresis due to stress and anxieties. She was clean and dry from age 2 and when she started mainstream school she started wetting herself and the bed too. Nobody took me seriously and said it was age related, she refused to use the toilet anywhere but at home until she was 13! Once her periods started everything stopped it was as if her body needed to mature as well as her anxieties (her father openly blamed me for causing her stress in an enuretic meeting we both attended after his inistence)

 

I would deffo see the paed earlier and if not then the GP as Sam needs some help with this as it will not just go away on it's own after my experiences.

 

btw DD1 is now 16 and still struggles with using other toilets away from home and is a very sensitive kid, but aside from that she has not had any accidents in years

Thank you so much for the reply <'> That really has helped,I will call them on Tuesday and sort out an appt,they are quite good his previous appt was moved up though it was still a two week wait it was better than 2months!!!

 

Thank you baddad.I have been told by some people and family who know my ex husband well,that he is jealous of our eldest and they have always had a very strained relationship.He was,like you mention,very good and close to our eldest when he was a baby until age four,then things changed as Josh was far more independent and had many of his own ideas.I guess this annoyed him he wanted to mould him into what he wanted.Again he blames me and my family for this

But as you say we both get on quite well,in fact better than when we were together and we discuss everything.He has a problem with Sams dx as well but thats another story He does try hard to be honest,I often feel its not enough but looking at it from his POV I do really get it.He travels 1hr to work and 1hr back and then comes to fetch Dan nearly every Friday and its another 20min drive back to his.He has taken two at a time but its always Dan and another,he will never leave Dan and take the other two as he worries that he will cry too much.He took Dan and Sam about three weeks ago and he came back completely shattered,he said he cant control them when they together He said cause Dan is loud and Sam even louder he had a major headache.I am hoping he will eventually get a bigger place but I think its unlikely and I just see things getting worse

 

[Sally44]

My son also is afraid of the dark, and recently even afraid to go into another room during the daytime. And my son recognises that this is 'strange' behaviour in himself, but cannot control it, and he gets upset with himself etc.

What you could do is provide him with a toilet card, or show him the toilet 'sign' (my son likes to use the one from Meet the Fokkers!!). Anyway, when he shows you that you go with him to the toilet, but don't go all the way. Go as far as he needs the first time eg. stand by the bathroom door. Then each time move about 10cm further away and see how he copes with that.

My son will go through phases. Sometimes he does much better than others.

Try not to get angry about it. Just tell him that as he grows up he will get used to going to the toilet on his own. And grit your teeth and smile sweetly!!

 

In our household it was our NT daughter that used to pee everywhere!! I believe it all started when my husband was in the garden (gardening), and she wanted to go and he told her to just do it where she was. WELL we had years after that of peeing in any and everything. I even have a photo of her stuck in a mop bucket in the middle of the lawn that she had sat on to use as a loo. And she used to pee under the table. But she grew out of it.