My son 'hates' girls in his class

[babnye1]

Ok, bit of a long and weird one.

 

My son, who has not yet been formally diagnosed but who is considered to have ASD, really dislikes girls - I mean really dislikes them.

 

He has just turned 7. He was moved on to a table with girls at the beginning of the year and I warned the teachers that he really doesn't like girls but they got a bit prissy as if I was demanding he be moved - I wasn't, I just wanted them to understand he might have concerns and that these might rise to the surface. Anxieties about things can act as 'triggers' to ASD children and need careful management.

 

I actually think he finds girls very difficult to 'read'and predict. He is similarly difficult with his younger brother who has long hair (and therefore should be a girl according to DS) and very unpredictable.

 

The school are not at all switched on to ASD and worse than that, there has been a certain arrogance to their behaviour over the last year. They would rather do nothing than ask for help and show ignorance. They are an 'outstanding' school and have 'lead' school status.

 

I understand from his TA that last week he was taken out of class by his teacher who said 'I don't know what to do with him'. He had apparently made some comment about girls. The TA wasn't told what it was.

 

She is fab and did some pictures showing how she looked as a girl and explained how all women used to be girls and how some girls even like Star wars etc.

 

Today, DS told me what happened.

 

He told me he had said 'I want to shoot all the girls'. A boy told the teacher. She shouted at him that he was never to day this and then took him out the class without explanation and left him with the TA.

 

DS had made a similar remark in the week which the same boy reported to the teacher. He said he wanted to 'shoot Mrs X' because she had given him work he couldn't understand. She told me she had overheard it herself and that all the children were very upset by it. This appears not to be true - the boy reported it and he was told off. She made a point of raising this with me.

 

Now, I know that these comments are not nice but I think they are clearly the result of some anxiety/frustration as DS is a very passive child who never causes any problems for anyone. This has in fact been the problem up to now as teachers have not seen him as having needs as he causes them no problems.

 

The teachers have a communication book and we are on the Early Bird Plus course where these issues are supposed to be raised so they can be addressed. So, I am annoyed that if this is an issue they are concerned about or don't know what to do about, they should raise it with me directly. He cried and cried tonight when we talking about it.

 

To date I have had nothing but grief from school who have no idea about what to do with DS. I am getting so frustrated. I had to re-write their IEP targets last week and they just express no interest in him. I'm always having to chase the provision he is supposed to have. I think they just can't be bothered with him.

[got the tshirt]

I think I can understand your Ds's difficulties with girls, they are so completley different to boys, I have 3 girls but 2 of them and I have had a lot of trouble understanding other girls. They change friendship groups with the wind and whisper in corners, you just don't know where you are with them. With boys if you can kick a ball or name all the dinosaurs, you're in. But girls are so much more complicated. I am sure your son knows he can't shoot all the girls or his teacher, but he is obviously having a hard time coping. Good luck with getting the school to understand him.

[babnye1]

Thanks. That is helpful! I also think it's partly his rubbish teachers as ASD aside, they should be capable of dealing with boys versus girls issues.

[jb1964]

Hi,

 

Just wanted to add that my daughter has always preferred boys to girls - and has struggled to maintain any sort of relationship with a girl - since primary she would always relate more to boys - she preferred their way of thinking, their games etc (the quieter boys not the energetic sporty type) - she found girls generally more 'scary' in every possible way. As she got older this continued and comp. was a nightmare - she particularly hated their make up (especially around the eyes) and hairstyles.

 

Take care,

Jb x

 

 

[Sally44]

Ok, bit of a long and weird one.

 

My son, who has not yet been formally diagnosed but who is considered to have ASD, really dislikes girls - I mean really dislikes them.

 

He has just turned 7. He was moved on to a table with girls at the beginning of the year and I warned the teachers that he really doesn't like girls but they got a bit prissy as if I was demanding he be moved - I wasn't, I just wanted them to understand he might have concerns and that these might rise to the surface. Anxieties about things can act as 'triggers' to ASD children and need careful management.

 

I actually think he finds girls very difficult to 'read'and predict. He is similarly difficult with his younger brother who has long hair (and therefore should be a girl according to DS) and very unpredictable.

 

The school are not at all switched on to ASD and worse than that, there has been a certain arrogance to their behaviour over the last year. They would rather do nothing than ask for help and show ignorance. They are an 'outstanding' school and have 'lead' school status.

 

I understand from his TA that last week he was taken out of class by his teacher who said 'I don't know what to do with him'. He had apparently made some comment about girls. The TA wasn't told what it was.

 

She is fab and did some pictures showing how she looked as a girl and explained how all women used to be girls and how some girls even like Star wars etc.

 

Today, DS told me what happened.

 

He told me he had said 'I want to shoot all the girls'. A boy told the teacher. She shouted at him that he was never to day this and then took him out the class without explanation and left him with the TA.

 

DS had made a similar remark in the week which the same boy reported to the teacher. He said he wanted to 'shoot Mrs X' because she had given him work he couldn't understand. She told me she had overheard it herself and that all the children were very upset by it. This appears not to be true - the boy reported it and he was told off. She made a point of raising this with me.

 

Now, I know that these comments are not nice but I think they are clearly the result of some anxiety/frustration as DS is a very passive child who never causes any problems for anyone. This has in fact been the problem up to now as teachers have not seen him as having needs as he causes them no problems.

 

The teachers have a communication book and we are on the Early Bird Plus course where these issues are supposed to be raised so they can be addressed. So, I am annoyed that if this is an issue they are concerned about or don't know what to do about, they should raise it with me directly. He cried and cried tonight when we talking about it.

 

To date I have had nothing but grief from school who have no idea about what to do with DS. I am getting so frustrated. I had to re-write their IEP targets last week and they just express no interest in him. I'm always having to chase the provision he is supposed to have. I think they just can't be bothered with him.

 

 

There is alot that can be done. But you need the right placement and a Statement.

I have mentioned SCERTS to you before. Part of that is Emotional Regulation. It maybe that he is getting upset about stuff for various reasons - not understanding - not knowing what is expected of him - needing things to be concrete and literal - needing more structure - needing less language - needing a low arousal environment etc etc. So basically he is not feeling great or dealing with stuff well. So he says he wants "to shoot" girls, teacher etc. If he has a limited vocularly, and limited expressive language, and limited social communication skills - then he is just going to use whatever he has to demonstrate his level of upset.

Do you think he has heard this phrase on TV or from a DVD and he is repeating it?

 

My son has used various phrases from TV. Tracey Beaker was a favourite for a while ie. "you can shut your big fat gob". That went down well.

 

As I said, lots can be done, but it needs assessments, professional input, daily practice etc.

 

I hope you get a dx, statement and placement you want. It makes things easier. Not saying its perfect cos I'm still fighting battles. But it is definately better than his previous mainstream.

[Mandapanda]

I actually think he finds girls very difficult to 'read'and predict. He is similarly difficult with his younger brother who has long hair (and therefore should be a girl according to DS) and very unpredictable.

 

Today, DS told me what happened.

 

He told me he had said 'I want to shoot all the girls'. A boy told the teacher. She shouted at him that he was never to day this and then took him out the class without explanation and left him with the TA.

 

Now, I know that these comments are not nice but I think they are clearly the result of some anxiety/frustration as DS is a very passive child who never causes any problems for anyone. This has in fact been the problem up to now as teachers have not seen him as having needs as he causes them no problems.

 

Hi babynye1

 

Not weird to me, sounds just like my youngest son!

 

For a long time he thought that curly hair meant you were a girl!

 

He really hated girls at school (he's now home educated). When we went to Longleat last year we were watching the Parrot show and he was sat at the end of a bench and a mum put her little girl of about 3 yrs on the bench. He pushed her with his arm and literally climbed over me to get away from her - he's 13! Then I saw how difficult he must have found it at school if he had to sit next to a girl.

 

He was a very passive child too. Don't underestimate what this means and how it is affecting him. It could also be a sign of other problems and all his anger/frustration about other things could be focussed on his dislike of girls.

 

If I could go back to when my son was 7 (and if I had access to this forum), I would have pushed for more help including requesting an assessment for a statement as a matter of urgency.

 

 

[julie1]

my son is 14 and he has 3 sisters he has always found girls hard to understand. But then his dad has the same problems understanding women. My son say there hair hides there face and it is hard to know what they want. He also finds it hard with men if they have facial hair, its the same he cannot see there face. He has learnt as he gets older a more positive way of reacting to girls he asks them what they mean and sometimes he has even asked his teachers to shave so he can see the whole face. luckly he is at a school with ASD provision so they respond quite well to his remarks. I found telling my son about important women and what special thing they did helped him to learn respect for women and the same for men im trying to get him to understand we are all equal. might take some time lol

[babnye1]

Thank you all so much! I really appreciate your responses as it is such an isolating world at school sometimes and no one knows what I am talking about.

 

I'm so upset today that I don't feel like sending him in. It just gets harder as every time I think we've made progress something happens to demonstrate that not only do they not understand this, but they don't even want to talk about it or address it.

 

I had a big meeting with SENco (deputy head) and one of the class teachers on Friday and they accepted my redrafted IEP targets (PPS told me the schools targets showed their inexperiences of ASD) and confirmed that, at last, they would be getting an ed psych consult (largely because the ed psych team now know of DS because of the Early Bird Plus course and so asked why they hadn't been consulted). However, I felt positive.

 

Then I find out that there is the incident with girls (he won't tell me why he said it, I think he's too embarrassed). He was also sent to work with the TA as he wouldn't do handwriting. A big issues with him. She encouraged him by getting him to write about Star Wars (what a star!!) but she said that 'went down like a lead balloon' with the teacher.

 

DS still won't stay at school for lunch. He started to come home when there was nothing he liked on the lunch menu as packed lunches made him feel sick in the lunch hall (he has strong sensory issues about food and smell). Now he says he's too nervous to stay.

 

I've offered to sit with him outside the class while he eats lunch which has been rejected out of hand by school.

 

I see no willingness to help (unless forced to by me badgering them with outside intervention) but, more importantly, there is no real interest expressed in his well-being. At no point has a teacher tried to take him under their wing to talk about problems in the school hall or otherwise.

 

The head of the ASD team is coming in next week to observe him in class and will see us after that. The Early Bird Plus course is coming in the week after and I'm seeing the Head after that.

 

I think that will be make or break time. I mean to be honest, how will this change with a statement? We can't go on beating school round the head to make them interested.

 

My younger son starts school in September and I am tempted to home ed them both at least until we can decide what to do.

 

Moving schools will be very hard for DS1 as he has friends so I've stuck with the school for this reason. If we move schools, we might move areas as the grammar school system here is appallingly competitive and ruins primary education. My husband works over an hour away so I don't really know why we're here.

 

Maybe I will home ed until the summer after the intervention is complete if things don't change

[chris54]

Just to be different, my son has always seemed to get on better with girls.

At school, if pushed, he would say that his best friend is a girl in his class.

[Sally44]

My son has also always done better with girls. They always took his hand and included him (as far as he was able to). They babied him, but they were friends with him.

Disliking girls might be down to visual processing problems. Boys are much easier to recognise ie short hair, trousers etc. That might make them predictable and more understandable. If he has difficulties with facial recognition, then long hair covering the face, a mixture of skirts and trousers etc may make girls much harder to process and understand.

 

One target we did with SALT a long time ago was related to pronouns. Does your child struggle with them eg. I, me, you, she, he, his, her, us, them etc?? So the SALT gave us a kind of lotto game. There were different figures eg. to start with just boy and girls (but we extended it to parents, grandparents etc). And we had a selection of flashcards with different items (clothing and gender or age specific) and I would ask the question "who does this belong to". This helped with pronouns, gender, vocabularly etc.

 

The thing is thought, that all our suggestions are great, but we've gone through them with the specialists. You are at the beginning of the process with virtually no support and no understanding from school. It is a horrible place to be. Push to get a dx at least where you are. Do you think you'll be there long enough to start the process of the Statement? Might be worth asking for it ASAP as they have to assess and produce reports quite sharpish. The longer part is the LEA looking at the paperwork and producing a Proposed Statement.

 

Have you asked IPSEA what you would do if you moved house halfway through the Statementing process?

 

I think it is better to start it where you are because if you move the new school/LEA will want 'time' to get to know your child. That is going to mean at least a further 6 months before a request for an assessment is made.

 

If you are thinking of home educating get the Statementing process started, and maybe home ed when you have moved house and until you have his new placement organised.

 

Some LEAs refuse to issue Statements - so you may come across that in the area you move to. I'm not sure of the legality of that, and I don't know what they do when children come into their area with a Statement. Again this is something to consider and ask IPSEA about.

 

I do remember how frustrating this time is. You just want SOMEBODY TO DO SOMETHING. And your anxiety and frustration levels are going through the roof. And you can see how your child is struggling and not being understood.

 

The only advice I can give is just to keep going. Have a good cry when you need to. Get up and take the next step. If you keep working through the process, you will eventually get to a better place. Try to see this as a marathon and not a short sprint. Try out of school things to see if you can identify needs or improve skills yourself. You can still include all that as parental comments as part of the statementing process. For example we tried trampoline club, play therapy, music therapy, football club - some were a success - some a complete disaster. But it all starts to give a clearer picture of strengths and weaknesses.

[babnye1]

Thanks Sally, I completely understand what you mean about small steps etc. I just have this feeling that there is going to be a battle every step of the way with school and that even with a statement I would be chasing to find out who had done what etc or if they were doing what they were supposed to be doing. I think if teachers/school don't understand the issues but you feel they care, you can keep going and feel supported. But when you don't even get the feeling that they're bothered, then it's a different kettle of fish

 

We do have access to SALT, OT and the child psychology dept even pre-dx here and all of them have been involved so I'm not sure how much a dx would change things although we are pursuing that.

 

The local PPS told me this school had dealt with another boy with similar issues. However the Community Paed mentioned him (not by name obv) a while back when she said school were 'failing another boy too'. The SENco told me on Friday that this boy ended up being Home Ed'd. His mum had moved from one school already and he was only there 6 months before his mum removed him. Given their absolute reluctance to do anything to assist without being forced, I'm really disappointed that they have learnt nothing. Not even the basics.

 

The simple fact is that this is a Grammar school area. The schools are hugely competitive and I have a horrible feeling that no one has time for these sort of problems.

 

 

[Sally44]

Let me tell you how a dx changes things.

I have been trying to get a dx of dyslexia/SPLD for my son. Without a diagnosis he is not entitled to input from a specialist teacher for specific learning difficulties. The LEA EP has told me in a letter that she does not need to do standardised tests because she can identify his areas of difficulty using classroom based assessments and functionality assessments and those areas of weakness can be targetted. SOUNDS GREAT! But he is falling further and further behind his peers. So i've asked for SPLD teacher input. The EP has said YOU CANNOT HAVE A DX OF DYSLEXIA BECAUSE NO-ONE HAS CARRIED OUT STANDARDISED ASSESSMENTS ON HIM. And SHE is the one who refused to do them!!

 

So the first step is dx. Once you have a dx of anything you get it included in the Statement in section 2. If a need is in section 2, by law it has to be in section 3.

 

What is the difference between having/not having a Statement. If I get a dx of dyslexia my son will have 1:1 input from a SPLD teacher. Without a dx and a Statement he won't.

 

Our LEAs SPLD teacher does not go to schools to assess, dx, or even meet the child. They only have a telephone answering service to give advice to school. That is the level of provision a child will receive without a Statement.

 

With a Statement they will get SPLD teacher input. Not easy to get. But LEAs HAVE TO FOLLOW THE CODE OF PRACTICE. If they don't and you go to tribunal you will win.

 

Does that make it clearer?

 

I'm not saying that with a Statement you don't need to check up that everything is being done as it should be because you do. And I'm not saying that LEAs don't true to reduce support at annual reviews - because they do. But you also have the appeal system.

 

It is Pants that we have to be involved so much. But basically you will always be involved with your son's educational provision if you have an SEN child.

[babnye1]

I completely see what you mean. I think my feeling is that you need a school to meet you half way if this process is not to be so completely soul destroying. The reality is this school may always need battling to get anything done. You have to work out if that is worth the stress