help 6 year old aspie out of control behaviour

[Fido]

hi

 

My 6 year old daughter has recently been diagnosed with aspergers she is also dyslexic and has sensory issues to sound, light and tactile sensations. Her behaviour is extremely controlling and is tearing our family apart. My son is also waiting for an assessment for aspergers and my husband is currently in the middle of an aspergers assessment.

 

Mollie wants to control the whole family and anyone who she comes into contact with. Traditional methods of reward and consequence have failed miserably. I always stand my ground and know how important it is not to give in to tantrums. These tantrums are now escalating beyond control and are increasingly long winded and violent. She shouts abuse, trashes rooms, throws objects, hits and kicks when ever i say no to something. A tantrum this weekend lasted for 5 hours on and off mostly on.

 

Does anyone have any idea of how i can reduce the intensity and violence of these tantrums before she seriously hurts herself or someone else. I always pick my battles and try and pasify, re-direct or compromise as much as i can but the goal posts are continually moved by her. I love my daughter to bits but feel that the Mollie that i know and love is steadily but surely being taken over by the behaviour.

 

Any help or guidance would be appreciated

 

Fido

[Paula]

Hi

 

My son is now 16 and has aspergers syndrome combined with moderate learning diffiuculties.

 

i remmeber only too well when he found comfort in controlling every single aspect of his surroundings and the people in it all hell would kick of if things didnt go to his plan and like youre child he could scream and rant for hours.

 

How did i cope.......well ........... and i know ill probabley get shouted down for what i did but it worked...........i just did what he wanted to keep the peace...........i was too worn out to be bothered and the tantrums and choes that would follow if i stood my ground or didnt go with the flow were far more damageing to family life than to just follow what made him happy.I found that if i went with the demands then he would remaine calmer then i could approach the subject of why he insisted things were done a certaine way and suggest something different ...........gradually i started to not conform to one thing at a time little baby steps were needed and it took years before his behaviour finally became less controlling as he realised nothing bad was going to happen if things changed and he didnt have full controll.

 

Oh we have our moments now sometimes but there few and far between.I used to think i might think what does it matter if youre food is on that plate instead of this one but i tried to realise it mattered a great deal to my son.

 

 

At the time you think its going to last forever and behaviours are always going to be terrible i wish looking back id realised things can and do improve and the tantruming screaming 6 year old i once had would turn out to be a brilliant young man who im proud to call son.

[baddad]

Hi

 

My son is now 16 and has aspergers syndrome combined with moderate learning diffiuculties.

 

i remmeber only too well when he found comfort in controlling every single aspect of his surroundings and the people in it all hell would kick of if things didnt go to his plan and like youre child he could scream and rant for hours.

 

How did i cope.......well ........... and i know ill probabley get shouted down for what i did but it worked...........i just did what he wanted to keep the peace...........i was too worn out to be bothered and the tantrums and choes that would follow if i stood my ground or didnt go with the flow were far more damageing to family life than to just follow what made him happy.I found that if i went with the demands then he would remaine calmer then i could approach the subject of why he insisted things were done a certaine way and suggest something different ...........gradually i started to not conform to one thing at a time little baby steps were needed and it took years before his behaviour finally became less controlling as he realised nothing bad was going to happen if things changed and he didnt have full controll.

 

Oh we have our moments now sometimes but there few and far between.I used to think i might think what does it matter if youre food is on that plate instead of this one but i tried to realise it mattered a great deal to my son.

 

 

At the time you think its going to last forever and behaviours are always going to be terrible i wish looking back id realised things can and do improve and the tantruming screaming 6 year old i once had would turn out to be a brilliant young man who im proud to call son.

 

Not 'shouting down'... but totally disagree. Really, it sort of comes down to helping them realise the consequences of their behaviour, or allowing them to grow up and work it out for themselves. I think the latter is unfair on them - because there are 'wilderness years' through which they will be excluded from just about everything outside of their immediate home environment - and ultimately self control achieved earlier is more likely to be an 'ingrained' response than a manipulative/self serving one one, as often proves the case with adults with 'poor self control' who seem very selective about the environments in which they can or can't demonstrate that self-control.

 

Fido - It is hard, no doubt about it, but if you are consistent about the boundaries, have effective reward schemes and realistic expectations and pick your battles etc etc etc it can be achieved and will benefit all concerned.

I would really try to look for any inconsistencies in your approach (or if you're a 2 parent family between how you each respond) - from my own experience I can say that consistency was certainly an area I fell down in in the begining and it made things much MUCH worse. Additionally, any sort of attempt to add new controls will invariably lead to an escalation in the behaviour... that is absolutely par for the course, and if you give in after five hours that just defines the new boundary for next time as 'five and a half', iyswim.

Sorry, Paula, if you think that's 'shouting you down'. It's just an alternative opinion.

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited July 19, 2010 by baddad

[justine1]

hi

 

My 6 year old daughter has recently been diagnosed with aspergers she is also dyslexic and has sensory issues to sound, light and tactile sensations. Her behaviour is extremely controlling and is tearing our family apart. My son is also waiting for an assessment for aspergers and my husband is currently in the middle of an aspergers assessment.

 

Mollie wants to control the whole family and anyone who she comes into contact with. Traditional methods of reward and consequence have failed miserably. I always stand my ground and know how important it is not to give in to tantrums. These tantrums are now escalating beyond control and are increasingly long winded and violent. She shouts abuse, trashes rooms, throws objects, hits and kicks when ever i say no to something. A tantrum this weekend lasted for 5 hours on and off mostly on.

 

Does anyone have any idea of how i can reduce the intensity and violence of these tantrums before she seriously hurts herself or someone else. I always pick my battles and try and pasify, re-direct or compromise as much as i can but the goal posts are continually moved by her. I love my daughter to bits but feel that the Mollie that i know and love is steadily but surely being taken over by the behaviour.

 

Any help or guidance would be appreciated

 

Fido

Hi

My son is six with AS.His behaviour used to be contrlling but hasnt been for the past 18mths or so(managed to control it even before his diagnosis.) I have four children so I wouldnt think its fair for him to always get his way so I curbed this as early as I could.I did this by always having boudaries and teaching him how to take turns.

Recently he has shown how he can share with his brother and its made me very proud.

 

I think if you let children do what they want then they will start losing respect for you and the tantrums she throws now will only get worse if you keep giving in to them. Does she have visual aids to help her understand routine and rules? If not there are free ones on here http://www.visualaidsforlearning.com/home-pack-learning.htm.

 

Then explain that if she wants something she has to earn it so start up a reward/sticker chart or similar(we use marbles in a jar,when he gets 5 or more a week he gets a treat but he also has to try remember what he did wrong and we talk about that,with the use of social stories.)

Maybe time out or sanctions may help to,prehaps she is overstimulated too many toys,games or telly,so try and reduce this.My son gets 30min computer time and 30min telly time each day(a bit more on weekends.)if he does something wrong he loses his time on computer and telly.This of course is the hardest part to enforce because of course my son wants to play games etc and he cries,he even would throw chairs and his toys but he has learnt not to do this.So over time your daughter will accept this and will be less likely to kick off in the first place if she knows you are serious about taking action.

 

Good luck.

 

[Fido]

hi paula and baddad it's nice to know that others are out there

 

Thank you for your replies. I can see very valid points in what you are both saying. I don't think that there is a write way or wrong way for dealing with these situations it is whatever suits a family the best, my family is extremely complicated which is why i am struggling so much. Please understand that all though my daughter has only recently been diagnosed i am not a novice with aspergers and have done plenty of reading, watching video's, dvd's etc not to mention living with a 42 year old aspie and an 11 year old aspie son.

 

My 11 year old son is also to be assessed for aspergers. He was also very violent and tempramental as an infant. Once i learned what his triggers were i could successfully manage his behaviour. My son is now a polite, loving boy who i share a very close, loving relashonship with. Don't get me wrong he still has his difficulties but we work through them together.

 

Because i have an 11 year old with suspected aspergers i have to accomodate his feelings and life as well as that of my daughter which is why i cannot always allow her to control because this has a direct affect on my son and this just isn't fair on him. He does not have the flexability of thought or the understanding of his sister that an average 11 year old kid would have.

 

The five hour tantrum was because she wanted to control and dictate how my son and his friends, who i had had for a sleep over, were playing. We cultivate Jake's friendships very carefully and try to guide him through the complexities that they involve and i cannot put them at risk for Mollie. At the same time i cannot allow her to cross busy roads by herself because she demands it or spend £20.00 in the local shop every time we go in. The boundries are pushed so far there has to be a time when the answer is No.

 

I do not give in to requests for control that put Mollie's safety at risk, affect Jake and his friends or are totally unreasonable. However despite the fact that i do not give in even after 5 hours of tantrums i know that this is not modifying her behaviour it is simply getting more out of control and i do not know what to do.

 

My husband is lovely and i love him to bits but living with him with his suspected aspergers and ocd's is like living with a sulky teenager upset at his change in lifestyle due to the children. He cannot help this and is very ill having numerous panic attacks and unable to cope with Mollie her demands, tantrums and the effect that this has had on his social life. His hobbies and interests are things he needs to keep him on the straight and narrow but they have had to stop due to the difficulties of the children. Mollie does not fall asleep until the early hours of the morning and will insist that i sleep with her. Jake has panic attacks with fear if he is left in room on his own after a certain time at night. Thus two adults need to be in at night to cater for the individual needs of the children. This isn't a problem for me because i am quite happy staying in at night but the loss of control over his own life and what he needs to stay sane has sent my husband into a downward spiral. He isn't selfish but is restling with his own demons and cannot cope with all this as well which pretty much leaves me on my own.

 

If i am consistent with clear boundries and not giving in will the episodes continue to escalate or eventually decrease? I really don't know which way to turn or if i am doing write for wrong. Everything that i have learned that has helped my son does not seem to have any positive responce from my daughter. She has an iq of 135 and is 99 percentile and i sometimes think that this superior intelligence outwits me at every turn. Even her headmistress says that she feels that she is dealing with an adult when dealing with Mollie and not a 6 year old child. Mollie has been suspended from school on numerous occassions and has been close to expulsion even though i have a statement of education for 20 hours and she is in a school that think she is wonderful and are trying everything to make her happy and calm down her explosive behaviour.

 

My husband and son are also both extemely clever and both poccess qualities, possibly through their aspergers, that i greatly admire. My daughter is a firecracker and if her wonderful intelligence and personality can be harnessed in the correct way i am sure that she can have a wonderful future infront of her. How do i harness and direct this into a positive direction without breaking her spirit and at the same time allowing us to have some sort of standard of living. I really am at a loss. Sorry about rambling on but i hope that with this information you guys may be able to point me in the right direction and then with my experiences and your input and experiences i can go on to point and help others in a similar position in the right direction.

 

If you've got this far thanks for reading the waffle.

 

Fido

[Fido]

hi paula and baddad it's nice to know that others are out there

 

Thank you for your replies. I can see very valid points in what you are both saying. I don't think that there is a write way or wrong way for dealing with these situations it is whatever suits a family the best, my family is extremely complicated which is why i am struggling so much. Please understand that all though my daughter has only recently been diagnosed i am not a novice with aspergers and have done plenty of reading, watching video's, dvd's etc not to mention living with a 42 year old aspie and an 11 year old aspie son.

 

My 11 year old son is also to be assessed for aspergers. He was also very violent and tempramental as an infant. Once i learned what his triggers were i could successfully manage his behaviour. My son is now a polite, loving boy who i share a very close, loving relashonship with. Don't get me wrong he still has his difficulties but we work through them together.

 

Because i have an 11 year old with suspected aspergers i have to accomodate his feelings and life as well as that of my daughter which is why i cannot always allow her to control because this has a direct affect on my son and this just isn't fair on him. He does not have the flexability of thought or the understanding of his sister that an average 11 year old kid would have.

 

The five hour tantrum was because she wanted to control and dictate how my son and his friends, who i had had for a sleep over, were playing. We cultivate Jake's friendships very carefully and try to guide him through the complexities that they involve and i cannot put them at risk for Mollie. At the same time i cannot allow her to cross busy roads by herself because she demands it or spend £20.00 in the local shop every time we go in. The boundries are pushed so far there has to be a time when the answer is No.

 

I do not give in to requests for control that put Mollie's safety at risk, affect Jake and his friends or are totally unreasonable. However despite the fact that i do not give in even after 5 hours of tantrums i know that this is not modifying her behaviour it is simply getting more out of control and i do not know what to do.

 

My husband is lovely and i love him to bits but living with him with his suspected aspergers and ocd's is like living with a sulky teenager upset at his change in lifestyle due to the children. He cannot help this and is very ill having numerous panic attacks and unable to cope with Mollie her demands, tantrums and the effect that this has had on his social life. His hobbies and interests are things he needs to keep him on the straight and narrow but they have had to stop due to the difficulties of the children. Mollie does not fall asleep until the early hours of the morning and will insist that i sleep with her. Jake has panic attacks with fear if he is left in room on his own after a certain time at night. Thus two adults need to be in at night to cater for the individual needs of the children. This isn't a problem for me because i am quite happy staying in at night but the loss of control over his own life and what he needs to stay sane has sent my husband into a downward spiral. He isn't selfish but is restling with his own demons and cannot cope with all this as well which pretty much leaves me on my own.

 

If i am consistent with clear boundries and not giving in will the episodes continue to escalate or eventually decrease? I really don't know which way to turn or if i am doing write for wrong. Everything that i have learned that has helped my son does not seem to have any positive responce from my daughter. She has an iq of 135 and is 99 percentile and i sometimes think that this superior intelligence outwits me at every turn. Even her headmistress says that she feels that she is dealing with an adult when dealing with Mollie and not a 6 year old child. Mollie has been suspended from school on numerous occassions and has been close to expulsion even though i have a statement of education for 20 hours and she is in a school that think she is wonderful and are trying everything to make her happy and calm down her explosive behaviour.

 

My husband and son are also both extemely clever and both poccess qualities, possibly through their aspergers, that i greatly admire. My daughter is a firecracker and if her wonderful intelligence and personality can be harnessed in the correct way i am sure that she can have a wonderful future infront of her. How do i harness and direct this into a positive direction without breaking her spirit and at the same time allowing us to have some sort of standard of living. I really am at a loss. Sorry about rambling on but i hope that with this information you guys may be able to point me in the right direction and then with my experiences and your input and experiences i can go on to point and help others in a similar position in the right direction.

 

If you've got this far thanks for reading the waffle.

 

Fido

[Fido]

Hi

My son is six with AS.His behaviour used to be contrlling but hasnt been for the past 18mths or so(managed to control it even before his diagnosis.) I have four children so I wouldnt think its fair for him to always get his way so I curbed this as early as I could.I did this by always having boudaries and teaching him how to take turns.

Recently he has shown how he can share with his brother and its made me very proud.

 

I think if you let children do what they want then they will start losing respect for you and the tantrums she throws now will only get worse if you keep giving in to them. Does she have visual aids to help her understand routine and rules? If not there are free ones on here http://www.visualaidsforlearning.com/home-pack-learning.htm.

 

Then explain that if she wants something she has to earn it so start up a reward/sticker chart or similar(we use marbles in a jar,when he gets 5 or more a week he gets a treat but he also has to try remember what he did wrong and we talk about that,with the use of social stories.)

Maybe time out or sanctions may help to,prehaps she is overstimulated too many toys,games or telly,so try and reduce this.My son gets 30min computer time and 30min telly time each day(a bit more on weekends.)if he does something wrong he loses his time on computer and telly.This of course is the hardest part to enforce because of course my son wants to play games etc and he cries,he even would throw chairs and his toys but he has learnt not to do this.So over time your daughter will accept this and will be less likely to kick off in the first place if she knows you are serious about taking action.

 

Good luck.

 

[baddad]

If i am consistent with clear boundries and not giving in will the episodes continue to escalate or eventually decrease?

If you've got this far thanks for reading the waffle.

 

Fido

 

 

Hi again, Fido -

not a lot of time so a very quick response on the point above... IMO and experience (far wider than just my own son, BTW) if you persist with clear boundaries etc episodes will decrease. If your daughter's IQ is as high as you say, she will be able to recognise a lost cause once it becomes clear it is a lost cause. In the short term, giving in can seem like a good idea; but you're not actually 'winning the battle' you're just deferring it. It would probably be quieter, but purely for the reason that your daughter had no reason to kick-off rather than any actual positive gain in behaviour. And then when you HAVE TO tackle it (which you will) the behaviours are even more established...

One other thing I'd pick up on is this:

Because i have an 11 year old with suspected aspergers i have to accomodate his feelings and life as well as that of my daughter which is why i cannot always allow her to control because this has a direct affect on my son and this just isn't fair on him. He does not have the flexability of thought or the understanding of his sister that an average 11 year old kid would have.

 

I do agree absolutely with this, but it could seem to mollie as though there were different rules/standards, and i think in those circumstances she'll need lots of positive reinforcement that it's not the case. Complex when siblings are involved, and doubly so, I think when they're younger but more socially aware, because social awarenmess isn't the same thing as emotional awareness and that can sting sometimes

 

anyhoo - nmust dash, but hope that's helpful

 

L&P

 

BD

[baddad]

oops dubble post... sorry, mods!

Edited July 19, 2010 by baddad

[Fido]

Hi again, Fido -

not a lot of time so a very quick response on the point above... IMO and experience (far wider than just my own son, BTW) if you persist with clear boundaries etc episodes will decrease. If your daughter's IQ is as high as you say, she will be able to recognise a lost cause once it becomes clear it is a lost cause. In the short term, giving in can seem like a good idea; but you're not actually 'winning the battle' you're just deferring it. It would probably be quieter, but purely for the reason that your daughter had no reason to kick-off rather than any actual positive gain in behaviour. And then when you HAVE TO tackle it (which you will) the behaviours are even more established...

One other thing I'd pick up on is this:

 

 

I do agree absolutely with this, but it could seem to mollie as though there were different rules/standards, and i think in those circumstances she'll need lots of positive reinforcement that it's not the case. Complex when siblings are involved, and doubly so, I think when they're younger but more socially aware, because social awarenmess isn't the same thing as emotional awareness and that can sting sometimes

 

anyhoo - nmust dash, but hope that's helpful

 

L&P

 

BD

 

[Fido]

hi badddad

 

Thanks for your input. You are spot on with your analaysis of Mollie and her brother Jake. She cann't understand why at 11 he can do things, like walk to school with his friends without an adult, that she cann't. I try to explain the difference to her but to no avail. At her assessment i was told that she saw herself on the same social level as adults and so the restraints put on her must be very confusing.

 

Her IQ was tested at the age of 3 due to constant problems at nursery school by the head Physc. He was amazed and had never had such a result in all his years of practice. He is a wonderful man well past retirement age with a particular interest in asd. In short he does the job for his love of special kids and it was him who confirmed to me and my husband that he would be astounded if my husband wasn't on the autistic spectrum. My husband designs and builds glass kilns for artists and was diagnosed with ocd 10 years ago. After reading about aspergers for my daughter i realised that the same things applied to my son and husband.

 

I shall continue with the tantrums on important issues that i feel i really need to be strong on and hopefully the behaviour will subside. When nothing seems to work you do question if what you are doing is right or wrong and you feel socially isolated when none of your friends understand and think that if they had a week with your child that they would sort everything out.

 

Thank you for your time to reply to my posts. I have lots of experience with my husband and son but none with a child that behaves like my daughter which is why i am open to suggestions that i have not previously tried. If you have only one child on the spectrum but that child is similar to my youngest and you have tried and succeeded then you have more experience on that type of behaviour than i do which is why i am grateful for any input that you have.

 

Thanks Fido

 

Bye the way my name is jane, fido is my husbands nickname for me which has kind of stuck through the years.

[Mandapanda]

Hi Jane

 

In my experience with my youngest son, trying to control everything is a self-protective behaviour. If/when this is the case I have found that the firmer you are the worse the problem gets as they are trying to protect themselves from something they cannot (for whatever reason) cope with. Can you talk with her when she is calm? I found asking questions is better than saying things like "is your brother annoying you" as it gives the child chance for their own thoughts to come out without being distracted by what I have said.

 

We've had extreme experience of this situation, and in our case deregistering from school has changed our lives (not suggesting you do this at all as it sounds like your daughter is getting good help). Since then my son has relaxed more, is happier, more confident, and does not need to control everything. Yes, he is still very fussy about food, and very sensitive to sound, smells and touch, but he can cope with being told off and being told "No".

 

In hindsight my son's sensory issues caused him problems for many years before we became aware of them. You might need to look at coping strategies such as setting 'quiet time' for whole family, ear plugs/defenders, lighting in the house, etc - no doubt you can google for ideas. Can you and your husband have separate time alone with the children at times? You may find this does get easier as she gets older and becomes more able to verbalise her difficulties.

 

I also sympathise with the night time problems, I ended up sleeping on a mattress on the floor of my youngest son's room for 5 months as he was having panic attacks at night and was scared that aliens would come in the house. He eventually asked me to move back to my room as the anxiety of other people knowing his mum was sleeping in his room overcame his anxiety of being on his own at night. He was older than your daughter at that time. It's also very hard when parents don't want/aren't able to deal with things in the same way. Trust your instincts and explain to your husband as best you can what you are doing and why. It may only be later that he will see the results and rewards and understand.

 

 

By the way, don't get hung up on the IQ thing - brilliant as it is - it only measures potential not knowledge or ability. I have an IQ of over 150 but I don't feel (or appear ) very clever and I am only a secretary (in an Adult Mental Health Team - which I love). The most important things to me are to feel loved and that I can rely on those I love, like everybody else surely?

[Karen A]

Hi Fido.

I have just picked up on your post.

It brought back lots of memories for me.

We have Ben who is now 12 and has AS.

Ben is less challenging than he was a few years ago.

However at one point he was very controlling indeed.I did not realise how much things had escalated until I talked about my experiences at a parent support group and became aware of how concerned the EP was.

At the time the main worry was for our elder son who is two years older than Ben.

Things had reached the point where Ben was attempting to control many areas such as the computer,TV etc etc.J was very accomodating but ended up being helpful to the point where he was being bullied.

We had some excellent support from CAMHS.

I realised very early that strategies such as attempting to hold Ben in time out would not work for me.I was honest enough to know that I would risk a serious loss of temper myself and did not trust myself not to hit Ben.

We developed a clear plan where we would remove ourselves from the room and shut the door.That way Ben had some time out and we were safe.

My husband and myself also worked with CAMHS so that we were consistent and agreed on the course of action.

We are still not always in agreement but are much more aware of the gaps now.

 

Ben is also very bright however it does create difficulties of its own.

As he talks like an adult in terms of both his manner and vocabulary it is very easy to forget that he is only 12.It was even worse when he was younger.Both myself and teachers have made the mistake of getting into prolonged debates over issues that escalate.I

have learned it is better to be as brief as possible and to be firm but controlled not allowing negotiation.

School have learned by their mistakes.Ben was known to work his way through the whole of the senior management team debating some issue.The difficulty was that he was probably right on the issue....but nobody stopped to think about who was in charge.

 

I have found that staff can also have unrealistic expectations.As Ben talks like a twenty odd year old graduate they expect him to have emotional maturity at that level.The reality is that in some respects he is more like a ten year old and if he becomes agitated and the situation escalates it is like dealing with a six year old.It helps if they remember that from the outset.

 

We have found that very few of our friends understand even now.They see a very intelligent young man who talks as though he is a graduate and can answer general knowledge questions that most adults would not know.We have worked very hard at strategies to support Ben and prepare him for change .We do not go places that are going to be so stressful as to not be worth the effort.So I think some friends wonder what the problem is.

 

I do know very well how difficult it is to have clear firm boundaries when faced with huge tantrums and the risk of things being broken or physical violence.My husaband is still upsett when he remembers.

However when things were very difficult Ben was between the age of six and eight.

At twelve he is now already taller than me at five foot three.He is very well built.

If Ben was as challenging as he used to be I would have a problem coping at all.

I have worked as a nurse with some very challenging patients but still would not have wanted to try to cope with Ben at home on my own.

So I think it was worth the stress of dealing with things when we did.

 

Karen.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Karen A

[Karen A]

Hi

 

My son is now 16 and has aspergers syndrome combined with moderate learning diffiuculties.

 

i remmeber only too well when he found comfort in controlling every single aspect of his surroundings and the people in it all hell would kick of if things didnt go to his plan and like youre child he could scream and rant for hours.

 

How did i cope.......well ........... and i know ill probabley get shouted down for what i did but it worked...........i just did what he wanted to keep the peace...........i was too worn out to be bothered and the tantrums and choes that would follow if i stood my ground or didnt go with the flow were far more damageing to family life than to just follow what made him happy.I found that if i went with the demands then he would remaine calmer then i could approach the subject of why he insisted things were done a certaine way and suggest something different ...........gradually i started to not conform to one thing at a time little baby steps were needed and it took years before his behaviour finally became less controlling as he realised nothing bad was going to happen if things changed and he didnt have full controll.

 

Oh we have our moments now sometimes but there few and far between.I used to think i might think what does it matter if youre food is on that plate instead of this one but i tried to realise it mattered a great deal to my son.

 

 

At the time you think its going to last forever and behaviours are always going to be terrible i wish looking back id realised things can and do improve and the tantruming screaming 6 year old i once had would turn out to be a brilliant young man who im proud to call son.

 

 

I am coming late to this I know but felt strongly enough to want to comment.

The approach to decide to leave things while maturity develops may well be an option where there is one child and carers in the house.

From experience it is not a safe or fair option where other children are in the same environmentand they are being controlled.

If we had left things as they were Ben may well have matured with time.

However our elder son would have been forced to accept being controlled and effectively bullied in the interim.

This was never an option for us and as previously mentioned professionals were also concerned about the issue.

 

This is even more an issue where other children in the house are younger or also have AS.

Karen.

[Sally44]

Could some of her controlling behaviour be down to trying to 'join in', especially with her brother and friends - but only being able to do that if she can control what is being played, said, the outcome etc?? My son used to do that alot. He wanted friends around, but they were stage managed like he was the director and had to reinact whatever it was that he wanted to play. Frequently this was something from a film or TV. He would get inconsolable if someone deviated from the 'script'.

 

If she has alot of sensory issues then you could try ear defenders. Does she struggles with changes to the environment ie. things being moved?

 

Do either of your children have a similar interest in the things your husband does so that they could go off together?

 

My son is now 9. And it has got alot better recently from the early years when we seemed to always start off as a family and then always deteriorated into two groups of an adult and child. Usually it involved me leaving with my son or going off somewhere different!

 

Alot of the behaviour maybe self defensive and sensory based. That does not mean it is to be excused. But if it is understood for what it is, and you can get professional input from a Speech Therapist (for social interaction) and an Occupational Therapist (for sensory integration), then you can begin to work on those areas and see the cause of the behaviour.

 

Once you have a better idea of the cause you can talk things through with your daughter. If she becomes distressed at things being moved around she needs to be told that although it upsets her, it does not upset other people. And she maybe re-assured just by something like a time timer that shows 'when' things will be returned to their normal place after the playmates have left. And if that is one of the causes the time timer (or a different strategy) may work, or it may takes months or years to work. And as she gets older she will tolerate things better.

 

If she has OCD tendencies like your husband does, then that might be harder because the anxiety and panic does not go away with any rational explanation or understanding. But it is important if anxiety is a real cause to always talk it through afterwards ie. "you were very worried about xxxx, but now everything is okay, so sometimes if we just wait the feeling will go away. Feeling scared or frightened and still carrying on is called being brave." etc - i've not worded that very well, but I think you get the jist.

 

It is always useful to use pictures and drawings along with words to explain the outcome of certain choices and behaviours. I often find with my son that his understanding via words is greatly reduced. But anything involving pictures remain with him immediately.

[Sally44]

How does your daughter respond after she has been aggressive or violent? Or after she has destroyed things in her room? Does she feel bad that she has done it, or feel bad about herself and her behaviour or lack of control over her behaviour?

Do you send her to her room as a punishment?

[JsMum]

Hi Jane, welcome to the forum,

 

Ive read throw your posts and I recognise a lot of what you describe in your Daughter Mollie in my own Son, who is 13, who is Jay, when he was 6, I was in very similair circumstances to yourself, I was sleeping in the same bedroom as he would totally have a panic attack if I left him.

 

we have got to a stage where now he does sleep in his own bed in his own bedroom but a lot has changed also such as a statement of SEN, specialist support, Melatonin and a placement in a residential specialist school, and recently respite.

 

from your posts a big factor is the night time situation, your whole household sounds very sleep deprived, with your daughter co sleeping with you and then up until early hours will most certainly cause massive behaviour problems in the day.

 

Have you tried any sleeping medication, my son takes Melatonin and was a godsend, he doesnt take it now as he takes a herbal medicine called Valerian but melatonin helped us set up a evening routine.

 

Lack of sleep will enhance Panic, Anxiety issues, so this could be something to look into for all of you.

 

My son has a visual evening routine planner, all set out in step by step pictural visuals, with a task.

 

For example

 

My Evening Routine

 

I choose an activity.

 

I have my Tea.

 

I have a Bath.

 

I put on my Pajamas.

 

I have my supper

 

I brush my Teeth.

 

I have a story/cd

 

I go to sleep.

 

All in picture format, a brilliant software is Widgits.

 

 

http://www.widgit.com/products/inprint/index.htm

 

In the early days we had a star chart and if he gained forty stars he got a reward but it didnt last if we did it for a long period, there good for short periods.

 

What also was a great assistance was a ABC chart, this is a really good method to look to see what are the triggers and what are the consequences.

 

So I recommend keeping a Daily ABC chart for a couple of weeks.

 

http://www.specialconnections.ku.edu/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/specconn/main.php?cat=behavior&section=main&subsection=fba/abc

 

At our home we have made a sensory room, a safe haven for J to go to when he is feeling stressed, this idea came from a visit at a developmental centre I took J for therapies and treatments called BIBIC I absaloutly recommend this service as they help with Autism, Dyslxia exct they gave me a lot of support for Js executive functioning.

 

They also do sound therapy.

 

http://www.bibic.org.uk/families_carers

 

I understand you may not have the room for a sensory room, but a small place somewhere in your home where Mollie could chill out and get some of her own space and somewhere she wouldnt be sent to as a consequence, but a retreat.

 

This could be a small pop up tent in a corner of a room, or a Shed in the garden, its just so she can escape to her own place for a short time.

 

What support do you recieve for Mollie and your family as it does sound you really are coping with a very complex family, all have very complex disabilities, OCD,Panic Anxiety Disorders, and Autism.

 

Do you recieve any home support, for example a Sessional worker takes my J out for a couple of hours, and he also now after a lengthy fight recieves Respite, Short break, this has saved my family.

 

Have you got any involvement with social services?

Have you had a anitial common assessment, this is a detailed assessement that looks at all the families needs and then puts in place what that family needs.

 

If you have and they have said you dont meet criteria, get it in writing and appeal.

 

For more information on community care laws ring the National Autistic Society and request more information.

 

The other area that I would be looking into is school, are school aware of her violent behaviour at home?

 

If so and they want to help you get them to write a supporting letter for support within your home.

 

If mollie is in a mainstream school have you thought about a specialist school? you say that at school they think she is wonderful, yet they are also threatening permanant exclusion, it maybe that she benefits from the routine of a school day but there is inconsistancies in the support she recieves and it could be that the triggers are school related?

 

So if you are interested in a specialis school

NAS can support you with this process by helping you look at what is available in your area.

 

What has helped J this week is Physiotherapy, a remedial massage, he has sensory issues too and has Sensory Intregration Difficulties too, but the massage really helps J.

 

J recieves this at his specialist school too, and the difference it has on the boys is emence.

 

I would look at stratagies that help Anger management and Anxiety Management, most of Js aggressive, controlling behaviour results from High Anxieties, and frustration throw not been able to communicate his anger, and thoughts.

 

my sons behaviour is another form of communication, it is not personal, or directed on me intentionally, it is his way of communicating, so I provide other ways to help him, art, music therapy, OT, Physiotherapy ect..

 

A great website for support on Anxiety management is NO Panic.

 

http://www.nopanic.org.uk/#

 

Contact a family also published this booklet to look at triggers of challenging behaviours.

 

http://www.cafamily.org.uk/pdfs/behaviour.pdf

 

And again the National Autistic Society have a wealth of information on behaviour issues such as saying the word NO.

http://www.autism.org.uk/en-gb/living-with-autism/understanding-behaviour/behaviour-common-questions-answered/my-daughter-reacts-badly-when-we-say-no.aspx

 

At school J recieves Anger Management, and Councilling, could anything like this be offered at Mollies school or her Childerns and Adolescence Mental Health Team. (CAMHS)

 

I would also request from your GP or Health visitor a Sleep clinic to look at stratagies to help Mollie and Jake with their sleep difficulties as part of it sounds like a seperation anxiety.

 

Do you attend any parent support groups for parents of children with Aspergers Syndrome. been incontact with others can really help so if there is a local parent group I recommend attending.

 

National Autistic Society also do HELP programmes, a course for newly diagnosed or suspected ASD that give some fantastic stratagies for ASD children/adults.

 

http://www.autism.org.uk/en-gb/our-services/support-for-families-and-carers/help-programme.aspx

 

There are a load of books on Aspergers Syndrome and Girls, so recommend reading some of those to see if there any further advice.

 

All I know is that this is a not an easy road, for any of us, it is challenging, exhausting, and draining but at the same time we love our kids, so we cant give up, Its certainly a tuff job, isnt it.

 

JsMumx

[kazjam]

Hi...my son is 13yrs old now and was diagnosed last year with Aspergers. He too can be VERY controlling and he will also be violent ....kicking, trashing things etc.

 

It can be very wearing and also nearly tore my own family apart.

 

What I have found works is to find something my son really really likes....in his case this is his xbox computer...which he would play on constantly if I allowed. This is the only thing which I can use to negotiate with him over....as other things eg. tv, trips out, swimming etc he is not that bothered about giving up. You have to find something they really really like above everything else.

 

After identifying this I sat down with him...when he was in a calm mood and we both wrote out a list of rules together. This was things like

 

He is to respect his parents

He is not to be violent

He is to do his homework before anything else each night.

15 mins of music practise

 

 

He also has rules for us

 

To spend time with him

To listen to him

etc. etc.

 

 

Once we set down the ground rules we then told him he has a set amount of time each day on the xbox eg. 2 hours. If he keeps to the rules and behaves he can gain extra blocks of 15 mins. If his behaviour is bad he loses in blocks of 15 mins.

 

I can now recognise if he is going to lose it....I try to divert him before he loses control completely by referring to the rules on 15 mins being lost. In 99% of cases this works.

 

Sometimes he has gone beyond the point of rationalising with him. In these cases I used to react and confront him and try to deal with it ....but this does not work. I now let him carry on with his bad behaviour. I don't interfere at all. I walk away if I can.....at home I lock myself into a room. This makes him calm down much quicker. If I am out I let him kick, punch me etc.......and I do not react or retailiate. This can get stares from other people but its best if he is doing this to me. If I hit him back I would be in big trouble! As there is no reaction he normally calms down a lot lot quikcer. Yes...this does feel like giving in and in some ways it is. However you then wait until he is calm sometime later and mention that what a pity his behaviour deteriorated like this and that he has lost 15 mins. as a result. Most times he acknowledges this and apologises.

 

Doing this his loss of control and tantrums now happen much less.

 

Also it is very important to constantly praise good behaviour. Or if not praising (as he should be good all the time!) at least mention how nice it has been to be around him that day as he has been so good.

 

Hope you can find something that works for you. I think it is very hard as each child is different. I spent years getting it wrong and tearing my hair out. Even now it is hard but I am coping better.