costs of sendist appeal

[bensmum2]

Does anyone know how much it costs the LEA to go to tribunal if you are appealing against parts 2,3 and 4 for a statement,they are saying a place at my chosen school would not be an efficient use of their resources, and i am thinking of arguing that the money they wasted fighting against us is not an efficient use of their resources and is probably more than the school place would have cost them , any ideas anyone ?

[Grace]

Does anyone know how much it costs the LEA to go to tribunal if you are appealing against parts 2,3 and 4 for a statement,they are saying a place at my chosen school would not be an efficient use of their resources, and i am thinking of arguing that the money they wasted fighting against us is not an efficient use of their resources and is probably more than the school place would have cost them , any ideas anyone ?

 

Hi,

 

I know a friend who has 'thrown' this argument at an LEA. They said it costs them nothing, because they are simply using their own staff and I have to say that is how it comes across: exactly why there is no impartiality/x

 

 

[bensmum2]

bUt the staff have to get paid and it takes a lot of man hours to go to tribunal with all the papers and everything. and the senco who is attending will ned ehr job at school covering by someone else and soem lEA'suse barristers that must cost them surely ? anyone else know ?

[justine1]

Hi

I dont know much about it but I dont think it would be a strong argument,though you could try.Depending on what school it is(obviously private and special will cost alot more) and the length of time he will be there it would be hard to know whether or not it is cheaper.

 

Good luck either way <'>

[call me jaded]

You're best bet of finding out is Hansard. I seem to recall that the cost of appeal to the parent averaged at £5,000. That was maybe in the Bercow report, but certainly evidence given to the Commons Education Select Committee that was chaired by Barry Sheerman (so maybe the Sheerman report). That was SENDIST in its old format, not SEND.

 

I'm sure an accountant looking at the assertion that it was costing nothing would think otherwise. Perhaps you could phrase it in those terms if you can't find a figure.

[bensmum2]

Thanks ladies, i think they have some very creative accounting in their costs as it is, they said a taxi would cost over £10, 000 a year, when asked to break down that cost, they said the owner of the taxi company was away so ccouldnt explain it, but then provided another estimate from the same company and messed around with th figures and got it to £16,000 , even though the document plainly says it costs the same to take one child as 2 children and they already pay for one girl to go. So i am arguing it wuld be no dearer to send my son in the same taxi, and therefore a better use of their resources so thought i could throw th tribunal costs in at the same time lol x

[coolblue]

Interesting attitude to public money - not knowing how much they are spending on what. Or thinking that nothing costs anything if you use in-house staff. Have you tried your local councillor? Or the portfolio holder for education?

 

cb

[bensmum2]

Hi Coolblue, my help from the local councillor went out of the window when instead of helping my son , the lea decided to accuse us of fabricating his illness and causing him untold damage for the future and were on the verge of child protection proceedings when he got diagnosed with Aspergers, the councillor doctor camhs everyoen told us it woudl be best to cooperate with the lea and they coudlnt help any more !!! they even rang up a support group we used to love going to and told them the same in order to get information about us fom them, so after that even though we were fully exhonorated by the social services shortly after iagnosis, i felt we had even lost our support and unable to go back there!! I have never heard of the portfolio holder ,what is this please, although i think maybe at 4 weeks to the tribunal we have left things a bit late now x

[julie1]

Thanks ladies, i think they have some very creative accounting in their costs as it is, they said a taxi would cost over £10, 000 a year, when asked to break down that cost, they said the owner of the taxi company was away so ccouldnt explain it, but then provided another estimate from the same company and messed around with th figures and got it to £16,000 , even though the document plainly says it costs the same to take one child as 2 children and they already pay for one girl to go. So i am arguing it wuld be no dearer to send my son in the same taxi, and therefore a better use of their resources so thought i could throw th tribunal costs in at the same time lol x

when i was at tribunal the pannel said they would not be including travel costs as there was a taxi already going to the school of my choice with space so there would be no extra costs to the LA. hope that helps

[bensmum2]

yes that certainly doeshelp Julie, that is the best news i have had in months !!!! i have got their taxi costs down to almost nothing but claiming it will cosst nearly £16,000 when one child already has a taxi there is going to make them look fools!!! thanks so much xx

[Sally44]

Remember alot of what the LEA are telling you is to fob you off or frighten you from seeking what you feel your child needs. Panel already know alot of these tricks and as already mentioned, if a child is already going to that school the taxi cost is recognised as being negligible by Panel. If he were the first child to need a taxi, then that would be different.

 

I have seen a report before about the cost to LEAs of going to tribunal. Can't find it now! But they did give a figure.

 

It is often the case that LEAs pressurise parents into having to go to tribunal and then start to give concessions as the tribunal date approaches. I believe this is done to make parents feel they have gained something and therefore drop the tribunal appeal. Many LEAs capitulate just before or at the actual start of the tribunal - having again pressurised parents into going to tribunal, which many times includes the cost of bringing expert witnesses and a solicitor. Again, the whole point is probably to test to see if the parent can represent themselves at tribunal or has the financial ability to pay for professional help.

 

 

 

 

[julie1]

I went to tribunal the first time having payed for a private splg report,i did not have any one to talk for me as i could not aford legal help ect. However the pannel did not let the LA intimidate me at all and if they started using long words they were asked to stop and have respect for everyone in the room. I won the case and my child is now at an independent school with speech therapy and OT each week.

I also went to tribual for a second and third time with my other children. I was told i would not win i had intimidating phone calls. I was promised all sorts of educational bribes if i didnt go to tribunal. I stuck strong with what i belived to be right but it was far from easy. I won on both the other cases as well and the LA backed down just before tribunal. All 3 of my older children go to the school of my choice with all the support they need. My son was described as a througly desent young man in his school report, which is a hugh contrast to his previous schools.

I hope things go as well for your child, i would say stay strong always be honest with the pannel if the LA say anything which is untrue write it down you will be given your chance to state why you feel it is untrue, know your evidence well so you can say for eg. blah blah blah is not true if you go to page such and such you can then prove what you are saying. Im sure this helped me as the LA twist the evidence to suit themselves.

Dont be afraid of going alone the pannel will always treat you well and insist that everyone else does as well.

remember you know your child better than anyone else and stay polite and calm throughout. if you need a break to pull yourdelf together just ask. its better than not speaking up because emotionally you are unable to speak. That happened to me and the pannel were great and called a timeout for everyone.

i dont no when your tribunal is, but i really wish you good luck and remember the LA and the pannel are human its not as scarry as you think it will be.

[JsMum]

 

I wrote something similair at the beginning of my process of getting J into a special school, and we went for Appeal, the replies spurd me on to fight and we where successful in getting parts twom three, and four changed before tribunal.

 

Interesting read.

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=17089

 

JsMumx

 

[Athena]

Going to SENDIST does cost the LEA, but to them, it is worth the cost to save money in the long term. That is how they see it, in pure money terms, it is worth them spending staff time on appeals.(which does cost, because it means that they are not doing other work), also Local Authorities have what is known as Service Agreements between their own departments, so the legal department will charge the Education Department internally for working on a SENDIST appeal.

 

In my case the LEA thought that it was worth their while spending money on employing a barrister from the City of London against us at Tribunal. They wasted their (or rather the council tax payer's money) as we won!

 

I read an interesting article on the cost to the LEA of Tribunal appeals - it is £10,000 per Tribunal! Will try to find the link

[Grace]

Going to SENDIST does cost the LEA, but to them, it is worth the cost to save money in the long term. That is how they see it, in pure money terms, it is worth them spending staff time on appeals.(which does cost, because it means that they are not doing other work), also Local Authorities have what is known as Service Agreements between their own departments, so the legal department will charge the Education Department internally for working on a SENDIST appeal.

 

In my case the LEA thought that it was worth their while spending money on employing a barrister from the City of London against us at Tribunal. They wasted their (or rather the council tax payer's money) as we won!

 

I read an interesting article on the cost to the LEA of Tribunal appeals - it is £10,000 per Tribunal! Will try to find the link

 

Hi,

 

Came across this on another forum. It's from an article re Cheating Children:

 

8 We emphasise the point that the matter is not one of scarcity of resources. The resources are there but are misdirected to expensive bureaucratic and management systems, to costly in-house LA interventions with no independently or objectively

audited outcomes and to elaborate, time-wasting and costly barriers to parental preferences and choice. In this last respect, we have a case at hand where a child went to SENDIST three times against the Staffordshire LA, to obtain a statutory assessment, to direct the LA to change a Note in Lieu to a statement and lastly for placement: The child won each time but it took 2.5 years of the child’s life to obtain justice. The cost of a tribunal to parents aside, it was estimated in 2000 that the cost of going to tribunal for the national purse was £12,000 on average and for an LA £3,000 on average; thus the parents’ struggle against the LA cost the tax- and ratepayer some £60,000 which would have more than paid for the total span of 5 years’ specialist provision which was eventually actually accorded to the child by SENDIST.

 

The whole article is pretty interesting/x

[bensmum2]

[quote name='julie1' -->

when i was at tribunal the pannel said they would not be including travel costs as there was a taxi already going to the school of my choice with space so there would be no extra costs to the LA. hope that helps

 

Hi just to let you know i was very hopeful after reading thsi post, but at our tribuinal , even though the lea accepted thta it wud not cost anymore to send my son in the taxi thta already goes there, the chairman judge knapp, divided the cost between the 2 pupils, both i and my IpSEA rep objected but he didnt reply just wrote down what we said , so we have to wait for the decision now, it just shows,one judge can make a decision and another one can look at things much differently!!