Is this right!?

[bonbons]

I am so upset with my 15 year old dd's old high school!! To keep the background brief in case you've read my previous posts, she has had a horrible time in high school from day one, and was severely bullied. the last 2 years have seen a gradual decline in her ability to learn and function there and a couple of very traumatic months in a young persons psychiatric unit, finally revealed her dx of atypical aspergers/ASD, the cause of her difficulties and,at the time, challenging behaviour. She only managed to return to high school after the summer holidays, for a total of 5 days with a support plan, in place, but this failed very quickly for many reasons, and she was subsequently excluded permanantly under a managed transfer scheme. She is in the middle of the statementing process and attends a PRU where she recieves only 5 hours per week education, but a lot of support and patience!

She has only one friend who she she spends every weekend with, but apart from that, has no social contact with children of her own age as she is the only pupil at the PRU. Yesterday, without my knowledge, she decided to go to the school grounds. She apparently caused a 'commotion', and I had to go and collect her. When I arrived, she had already gone home, but I was told in a later telephone call, that she had been rude and abusive to the teacher who asked her to leave the premises, and had made some disturbing comments to him leading him to think that she may harm herself! They also told me that if she turned up there again, they would have her escourted from the premises by the police! I make no excuses for my DD's use of bad language ( happens only when very angry!), and she knows that, and thankfully, I can dissmiss the comments she made which led staff to think she may put herself in danger, as she often quotes song lyrics to express herself as she cannot easily find her own words and also has a tendancy to turn the tables when she knows she is in the wrong so that the emphasis becomes one of sympathy rather than disaproval, but what I can't excuse is the schools need to call for police involvement should this reoccur!

Can they do this? Shouldn't they call us first as they did yesterday? What the still see is an angry, difficult, un-cooperative individual, who caused them too many problems, but what I see, is a vulnerable, confused, rejected and socially isolated child who just wanted to say 'hello'! Hopefuuly, she will soon be given an opportunity to find more a more specialised place with teachers and pupils who understand what makes her tick, and help her to understand it too.......

[Shnoing]

... They also told me that if she turned up there again, they would have her escourted from the premises by the police! ... Shouldn't they call us first as they did yesterday? ...

You might consider to go to that school again and sort of make a plan how to proceed when (if) your daughter turns up there again: they should call you and you'd fetch her. Then there's no need for police involvement. You'll have to try to make them see that removal by force would have devastating effects on her fragile condition and that they - as her former school - are still to some extent involved in the process of trying to stabilize her.

[chris54]

I fully understand what you are saying but think of it from the point of view of the school.

They have someone turn up on their premise how is being disruptive and a potential danger to others. What are they supposed to do.

If someone turned up at my child school and behaved like this I would want something done about it.

 

Where I work the parent of one of the resident are now band for being abusive, we have instructions to call the police if the turn up outside of pre planned times when senior management are there.

[bid]

This is obviously very upsetting for you Bonbons, but your DD's old school has a duty of care to the current pupils. If your DD does cause any problems, this means they have to take staff away from their duties within school to sort things out, which again impacts negatively on the other pupils.

 

I think your focus should be on the PRU for not supervising your DD more closely, as they have the duty of care towards her at the moment.

 

I hope you can find a solution to help your DD.

 

Bid <'>

[Sally44]

I think you could and should use this incident as evidence that she needs input around social interaction skills and life skills and supervision etc.

 

I would speak with your daughter about what she was going into school for. Explain that no-one can just turn up at school, and that if she did want to see a former teacher etc that she would need to make an appointment. If she was going in to confront someone, then it might be better to get her to put her feelings down in writing or a drawing.

 

My son is also very impulsive, and it may have been a spur of the moment decision.

 

I would also speak with the former school SENCO about what they should do if she turns up again. Ie. call you and maybe escort her to the school office until you turn up. But if they could not understand her or meet her needs whilst there, I think they will still struggle to know how to handle any situation without it escalating.

 

Calling the police was probably used as a threat. But I suppose they might resort to that if your daughter did get very upset and they feared she might attack someone.

[bonbons]

Hi...thank you all for your points of view...and yes, of course I see that it was ,and potentially still could be, a difficult situation.I was really upset on the day it happened and perhaps less emotional about it now!! Actually, she has made a fair bit of progress since being away from high school, in some ways anyway. Because the stress of going to a place where she was unhappy has now gone, her anxiety has decreased hugely, and her behaviour at home much improved. She only attends the PRU every other day for an hour or two and neither my husband nor I would be able to give up our jobs ( hopefully she will be back in full time education fairly soon!), however, we manage to cover the days between us and her older brother, to ensure that she is with one of us most of the time. She clearly chose her moment! I did speak to her about it, made sure that she knew that she simply couldn't go to the school grounds inside school hours, that abusive language would not be tolerated etc... she apologised but still defended her decision saying that she 'missed seeing people'. School have also admitted that the secretary's message had been lost in translation and that in the first instance, they would , of course contact a family member, so issue is resolved I guess. Don't think she will attempt it again somehow....

[Sally44]

I still think that this issue should be put in paper by you writing to school and asking them to put in writing what actually happened.

Your child is vulnerable, and as you say, should be in education. You cannot give up work to 'supervise' her and so she could get into potential danger. This should be used to get her into a placement that would meet her needs and where she would be safe.

I would check what the position would be if she were to get into trouble now. Would you be responsible or the LEA? It sounds like you have been left in a position where if the XXXX did hit the fan, you could be accused of neglect??

[bonbons]

I must say, I was a bit shaken by that last comment!! My DD IS supervised nearly all of the time apart from a gap of an hour or two here and there, by three adults, and we are doing remarkably well given the circumstances! I have pushed for more hours at the PRU as 5 hours is very little...originally, it was only 2 hours!!! WE are up to the part of the statement process which requires our parental advice, and I have typed out pages of information to explain in detail, all of our views and what it seems to us and others, her educational needs are, and requested 2 reports to accompany our submission, highlighting my concerns that she is becoming isolated and missing social contact with children her own age, in the hope that it will speed up the process!!We try to do fun family things every weekend, involving her friend as much as possible, and I explain every step of this whole process to her so that she is imformed and understands what we hope to achieve for her....what more can we do? This last incident upset me bacause the whole police thing made it sound like she was a criminal, which she isn't, and I feel like, although she is still on role with the school, she is very much a case of 'out of sight, out of mind', The occasional phone call or email asking how she is doing, wouldn't have gone a miss in my opinion!

 

Beverley

Cheshire.

[bonbons]

All our parental info is typed up, very supportive reports attached, and it will go into the post box tomorrow morning!! So glad that bits done! Ed psych visit is also complete, as is her medical.....how long now I wonder?

[Sally44]

I must say, I was a bit shaken by that last comment!! My DD IS supervised nearly all of the time apart from a gap of an hour or two here and there, by three adults, and we are doing remarkably well given the circumstances! I have pushed for more hours at the PRU as 5 hours is very little...originally, it was only 2 hours!!! WE are up to the part of the statement process which requires our parental advice, and I have typed out pages of information to explain in detail, all of our views and what it seems to us and others, her educational needs are, and requested 2 reports to accompany our submission, highlighting my concerns that she is becoming isolated and missing social contact with children her own age, in the hope that it will speed up the process!!We try to do fun family things every weekend, involving her friend as much as possible, and I explain every step of this whole process to her so that she is imformed and understands what we hope to achieve for her....what more can we do? This last incident upset me bacause the whole police thing made it sound like she was a criminal, which she isn't, and I feel like, although she is still on role with the school, she is very much a case of 'out of sight, out of mind', The occasional phone call or email asking how she is doing, wouldn't have gone a miss in my opinion!

 

Beverley

Cheshire.

 

I didn't mean the comment about 'supervising' to be a criticism of you. I know that many parents find themselves in your situation where the education system is not providing 'full time' or 'appropriate' placements and that leaves the parents trying to cover the gaps. What I meant is to use this incident of proof that you need what you are asking for. And if you need to go to an educational appeal about it then it is worth considering doing that and submitting written information about this incident as evidence of the fact that she is vulnerable, she does have social communication and emotional issues and needs to be in a placement that can meet those.

[bonbons]

Thanks Sally....I can see what your saying. I think that I will document this and send a written copy to the school, just so that it is recorded, or maybe email the senco there, and also forward a copy to the lady on the inclusion team who is dealing with Daisy's case at the LEA.

 

Thanks for the advice

 

Beverley.

[Sally44]

You could word the letter in terms such as this addressed to the Head or SENCO:

 

Saying that "further to your daughter leaving their school you have been seeking an appropriate placement and level of support and provision to meet her needs. This letter is just to clarify the recent incident that occurred on xxxxx. Can you please confirm receipt of this letter and any comments you would like to make about the incident."

 

Then just detail exactly what happened, including the school saying they could call the police. Do it in a very factual way and do not give your opinion, just what happened to record the event. Then send it to school and see if they reply.

 

Is the Statement still being put together? If so you can then submit a copy of that letter to the LEA inclusion officer that is drawing up the Statement, with a covering letter in which you would go into more detail about how your daughter is vulnerable (use that word), and was very upset by the incident and that you are very worried by her lack of judgement, life skills, social communication and emotional skills and feel that these needs are not currently being met and that she is not being properly supervised during the hours when she should be in an educational placement.

 

Do you have any placement in mind?? Does your LEA have a secondary school for children with an ASD, or one with an ASD unit? What is the EP saying is the right placement? Have you had any independent reports done?

 

When the LEA issue the Statement go over it with a fine tooth comb and cross reference every need to every detailed and specified support, therapy, provision or professional input. If it does not identify and meet all her needs, then go to tribunal over it. You have nothing to lose.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Sally44

[bonbons]

Hi sally....We are about 3 months into the statementing process so it is very much a waiting game.She has seen everyone she needs to see and we have just submitted our views along with a fab report about her educational needs from the PRU (pupil referral unit),and another from the young persons psychiatric unit where she was assessed in the summer. It was the headmistress of the education dept there, who highly recommended a particular independant school specialising in ASD/ aspergers. We are very impressed with this school, and it is a place there that we are pushing for.We have carefully highlighted what we would like for our daughter with regards to a nurturing, theraputic environment addressing her social and communication difficulties, anxiety, anger, self esteem, etc etc, all of which this school can offer. It is out of area however, and the provision for children on the spectrum within our LEA is limited to a couple of small units attached to mainstream schools and which currently, are full. We are hoping therefore that this work in our favour. I will draught a letter, as you suggested, to her high school, documenting the incident, and forward a copy on to the person dealing with her statement. Do you think they will include it when putting together her proposed statement even though it is not with the rest of the paperwork? I hope so, as it does highlight the inadequacies of the amount and type of education she is currently receiving, and the potential problems that may occur the longer this goes on!

 

will keep you posted!

 

Beverley.

[Sally44]

Hi sally....We are about 3 months into the statementing process so it is very much a waiting game.She has seen everyone she needs to see and we have just submitted our views along with a fab report about her educational needs from the PRU (pupil referral unit),and another from the young persons psychiatric unit where she was assessed in the summer. It was the headmistress of the education dept there, who highly recommended a particular independant school specialising in ASD/ aspergers. We are very impressed with this school, and it is a place there that we are pushing for.We have carefully highlighted what we would like for our daughter with regards to a nurturing, theraputic environment addressing her social and communication difficulties, anxiety, anger, self esteem, etc etc, all of which this school can offer. It is out of area however, and the provision for children on the spectrum within our LEA is limited to a couple of small units attached to mainstream schools and which currently, are full. We are hoping therefore that this work in our favour. I will draught a letter, as you suggested, to her high school, documenting the incident, and forward a copy on to the person dealing with her statement. Do you think they will include it when putting together her proposed statement even though it is not with the rest of the paperwork? I hope so, as it does highlight the inadequacies of the amount and type of education she is currently receiving, and the potential problems that may occur the longer this goes on!

 

will keep you posted!

 

Beverley.

 

If you are at that stage you could send a copy in to the LEA, or keep hold of it to see what their initial response is and whether they agree to this independent placement. Your next stage will be to receive the Proposed Statement. From that you will get an idea of what the LEA is thinking of. You could at that stage send in a copy of this letter as further evidence to back your views. Then, there might be some negotiation between you and the LEA about the contents of the Statement. If the LEA do not agree to what you are asking for they will finalise the Statement, or after a reasonable amount of time for negotiation you can ask the LEA to finalise the Statement. As soon as the Statement is finalised you can put in an appeal to tribunal if you are not happy with either or all of parts 2, 3 and 4. If the LEA is not prepared to name the independent school you are seeking you may need to get independent reports, unless the ones you already have specifically state that in their opinion your child needs this school. Once you have submitted your appeal you will receive a letter from SEND and it will detail the timescales for each step of the process. Make sure you keep to them.

[bid]

We have carefully highlighted what we would like for our daughter with regards to a nurturing, theraputic environment addressing her social and communication difficulties, anxiety, anger, self esteem, etc etc, all of which this school can offer.

 

It is very important that you don't just detail what you would like for your DD. In order to get an out of county specialist placement, you have to argue and prove that there is nothing within county that can deliver the provision she needs. To do this, you need to take all your evidence and reports and show that her needs can't be met within county, rather than showing that the special school can meet her needs.

 

HTH

 

Bid