Any more 'androids' out there...?

[Shrinking Violet]

Hiya folkses!

 

This is really a follow-on from Cardamine's 'empathy' thread, but it got me thinking: - Does AS (or simply having an ASC) turn you into an 'android'?

 

Let me explain; I don't seem to be able to feel ANY kind of (positive) emotion at all - empathy, sympathy, love, sorrow, etc., - which is probably why I'm Norma No-Mates (okay I have mates in Manchester to go out boozing with, but no 'mate, mates', if you see what I mean...

 

My mother has lost 2 close friends (both to cancer) and her mum (to a stroke) in the past 18 months, and I wasn't able to feel anything, or offer sympathy, even though I could see she was visibly distraught.

 

Nor did I feel anything when my sister told me she was getting hitched (but that's probably because the b**ch has decided that I'm to have nothing to do with the proceedings). If I'm nasty to someone (whether intentionally - or, more usually UNintentionally) then I'm not able to apologise, because I'm fearful it'll sound forced and fake; of course, this then has the obvious effect of me losing that person as a friend, because they now see me as a complete total and utter evil b**ch.

 

I never send ANY type of cards - birthday, Xmas, sympathy - nothing, and I can't recall when I last bought someone a pressie. I never wish anyone I have on FB a happy birthday, or sympathise with them if the need arises - it just feels forced.

 

There's the flipside, of course (which we all know all to well) what I lack in positive emotions - I sure as hell make up for in negative ones!

 

PLEASE tell me I'm not the only one who's like this...?

 

 

<'>

 

Sarah xxx

[bid]

Well, I have a dx of AS, and I wouldn't say I'm like that at all?

 

I very often have trouble identifying my emotions, and it can take me quite a while to process how I feel but I'm certainly not an android.

 

Just a thought, but you might find you have more friends if you did send cards, wish people Happy Birthday, etc, even if it does feel forced...and not refer to your sister as a 'b*tch'? It feels forced to me to ask my team at work about themselves and their families, but I know I need to remember details about them and express an interest because I'm their Team Leader.

 

A lot of this is just plain good manners. It's also a two-way thing. If you want people to be interested in you, then you have to take an interest in them and express that accordingly.

 

Bid

Edited February 10, 2011 by bid

[Shrinking Violet]

You're missing the point - I can't send cards or anything like that - it just doesn't feel right to me. I feel fake doing it and I don't do it because I feel as though I will be perceived as fake. I can't explain it, it's just how I am. I find it hard to take an interest in people because, for my entire life, NO ONE has taken an interest in me (except to tell me how evil I am - maybe that's true, maybe I am just evil). The nuns at school used to refer to me as 'the devil's daughter'. I remember Sister Candida calling me that in the nursery when I was 3.

 

Tell me how to take an interest in people, I don't understand. I don't know what it means. I don't know how to. I honestly truthfully don't. That's how dysfunctional a human being I am.

 

I am telling you the truth - I'm that f**ked up - I don't know how to do it - I've NEVER known how to do it. How do you learn to be nice to people, when no-one has ever been nice to you (at least not that I can remember). Maybe this is learnt behaviour, rather than autism, I don't know (but I'd like to know). These are questions I've been asking myself my whole life - or at least since I was old enough to understand the world (inasmuch as I do understand it...)

 

And as for my sister - she's a b*tch. To call her anything else would be a lie - and that's one thing I NEVER do, is lie. The way she has treated me over her wedding (cutting me out completely) you'd say that was a nice thing to do, would you...? She has told me categorically that she doesn't want me there, nor am I welcome at the reception. This came quite out of the blue, and was a complete, total and utter shock to me, I cried about it for DAYS. I thought she was a decent human being up until that point - I didn't think she hated me. Now I know for sure that she does so, if it's all right with you, she's a b*tch.

 

I am telling you how I feel, and how I perceive the world. If this means I'm not autistic, just evil, so be it. I'm evil. I've had to live with being evil for 36 years.

 

That's me. That's how I am. I'm telling you how I am. What you make of it, how you interpret it, is down to you.

 

 

Sarah

[bid]

You are very angry that people/your family don't take an interest in you (your sister's wedding for example, and elsewhere you have posted that your parents don't know about your hobbies, etc)...but then you refuse to take an interest in them.

 

I'm sorry, but to me it is plain poor manners not to send birthday cards, etc...or even apologise as you say in your OP. You say all these things feel fake, so you're not going to do them. Well...you don't like people doing this to you. So, they feel the same when you ignore them.

 

When your sister said she was getting married did you say you were pleased, show an interest, ask her about it?

 

Like I said before, this is all a two-way process. You do know what to do...because you say you refuse to do it because it feels 'fake'.

 

I have no idea whether this is learnt behaviour or if you are on the autistic spectrum. Either way, the only person who can start to change things is you, by doing these things even if they do feel fake. I do loads of things that I don't really understand the reasoning behind, but I accept that I need to do so because I have observed how people interact with each other and what makes other people happy and more inclined to want to interact with me.

 

Bid

[WillR73]

Sorry Bid, but I'm siding with the violent violet

 

I know exactly what you mean Sarah. I'm Will, 37, late diagnosed Asperger. So I've also had a lot of years of the world being a nasty place before I understood why.

 

I understand what bid is saying, although my interpretation might sound a bit cynical. Lie. That's it. My guide to surviving the human race - smile sweet and lie Birthday cards, periods of mourning, "darling, I love you more than life itself!"...I don't feel a bit of it. Because I am what you describe as an android. On Monday I can love, bury, or any other moment you can imagine. But next morning it'll be just another Tuesday.

 

My point is, fake it. As long as you smile sweet and pretend you're like them, they leave you in peace.

 

Meanwhile think about an old Greek idea. Three kinds of love - Eros, Philios, and Agape. Eros - sexual. Philios - family and close friends. Agape - the human race. Think through the three - decide for yourself if you have loved or can love or want to. Because that seems to be what you're talking about - what feels important enough to care about - yes?

 

I already went through that whole line of thought, but I won't tell my conclusion in case I spoil the surprise

[Tally]

When you're not used to doing things they will feel forced at first. But they eventually become more comfortable and natural the more you practice them.

 

Autism may be at the root of why you don't understand the importance of these things, but autistic people can still learn that they are important to others and it doesn't stop you having a go.

 

I have had a lot of difficulty making friends. I often think I must be a horrible person as I often feel people are deliberately being horrible. But I've started to see that it is my behaviour that sometimes makes people think I don't want to be friends. It's not that I am horrible, it's just that I can give off misleading signals that sometimes make me look unfriendly.

 

I'm starting to understand what those signals are now and work on changing them. It has not been easy, and it did feel fake at first. But I must be getting it a bit right because people do react differently (better) to me now. That's been encouraging and helped me to do it more and more and it has started to feel natural.

 

It's not about lying; it's about translating my thoughts (I want to be friends) into a way that other people will understand (saying hello to them). It's a bit like speaking a foreign language.

 

The written things (birthday cards, wishing facebook friends a happy birthday) are probably the easiest things to start with as you get time to think about what you say. Birthday cards are practically written for you and all you have to do is write the names in. On Facebook you can normally see what other people have written and write something similar. It doesn't have to be anything profound, just "happy birthday" would be OK.

 

If no apology causes you to lose friends, then you have nothing to lose by risking a fake-sounding one.

[munty13]

Looks like I'm in the same boat as you, Violet. Pretending to be nice to people makes me feel fake. It just feels so unnatural. I get the idea that people are nice because they are trying to sell me something - themselves. Well, I don't particularly want to sell this idea of myself to other people. I just want to give them me. It's just a bit unfortunate that right now, I'm a twisted, cynical indivual, and not a lot of people want that!

 

That said, I know I need to work on being more polite. It's reassuring to hear stories, such as Tally's, where they have found ways of making social ettiquette feel more natural.

[BuntyB]

I can relate to this. I didn't have friends; I hung about with one girl and thought that was ok, because you only need one friend! As I've got older and she moved on I've found it hard to fit in and thought everyone was against me. I wasn't happy- in fact I got suicidal!

 

At one point though I started watching who are the popular ones? Who makes friends easily (like my sister, how she smiled and said 'hello' to people she'd just met!

It was horrific at first when i tried it. It felt like I'd got a coathanger in my mouth; totally fake and I thought people would see through me and laugh at me! But no. People smiled back.

 

I agree it takes time but I've been practising for about 10 years now and it's not easy but it's certainly easier, and I do have several friends and a job in a friendly place. I think it may take those who've known you for a while to trust you and accept you're interested. but you ARE; otherwise why would you have cried for days when your sister gave you the cold shoulder back? And it certainly proves you're not an android because otherwise you wouldn't care if they never had anything to do with you ever again.

 

If you don't send people cards, you are telling them you don't care and don't want to know. they're just following your lead, but you can turn this around.

Don't give up!

[justine1]

Well,Sam(7) makes friends very easily.I think because he is not afraid of people.If a child has something he likes,like a character lunch box,he will start chatting about that.Problem he has is he doesnt know when to shut up! Taking turns including conversation is tricky.Also his braveness when it comes to approaching people is slightly scary as he could be lead astray.

 

As for apologising he finds this most difficult,he refuses to do it.A week or so ago I did laugh,he was on the PC and my eldest was annoying him,so Sam threw something at him,I told him to say sorry or he loses computer time,he jumped up run to his brother gave him a forced hug and apology and run back to his game.

 

The school have also always made him apologise,its definatly fake as he often can explain why he does not want to.However he is learning it is something that has to be done.

 

He likes making cards and things for his brothers at birthdays,and yesterday it was Dan's birthday he called him at 7am to wish him.It does shock me as its only at birthdays he will go all out then he won't notice them again.

[Shrinking Violet]

I can relate to this. I didn't have friends; I hung about with one girl and thought that was ok, because you only need one friend! As I've got older and she moved on I've found it hard to fit in and thought everyone was against me. I wasn't happy- in fact I got suicidal!

 

At one point though I started watching who are the popular ones? Who makes friends easily (like my sister, how she smiled and said 'hello' to people she'd just met!

It was horrific at first when i tried it. It felt like I'd got a coathanger in my mouth; totally fake and I thought people would see through me and laugh at me! But no. People smiled back.

 

I agree it takes time but I've been practising for about 10 years now and it's not easy but it's certainly easier, and I do have several friends and a job in a friendly place. I think it may take those who've known you for a while to trust you and accept you're interested. but you ARE; otherwise why would you have cried for days when your sister gave you the cold shoulder back? And it certainly proves you're not an android because otherwise you wouldn't care if they never had anything to do with you ever again.

 

If you don't send people cards, you are telling them you don't care and don't want to know. they're just following your lead, but you can turn this around.

Don't give up!

 

 

Bunty,

 

First off, sorry for not replying sooner - I've been offline for a few days (second new router needed in less than 6 months! )

 

You're missing the point (or I'm not explaining myself very well, which is usually the case). I TRIED with my sister, I tried for years and years and years, that's why it was such a shock, If I'd not tried, I'd not have been shocked. Does that make sense. Up until that point, I thought we understood each other. Now I know for sure we don't...

 

 

The REAL problem I have is online. I live in a very small town in South Bucks, where the average age of the population is late 60s. There is NO ONE here my age. There is one person here I can talk to, and I feel she understands me, but she is VERY busy herself (she runs a chocolate/ice-cream shop and cafe in town - and she makes all the chocolates (with help from her son) but she makes the ice-cream herself (and you'd be surprised how many people want ice-cream, even in February). She makes the best hot choccie on the planet, but I digress...

 

So I use Facebook, and that causes me all sorts of problems; and there is something which has happened today which has really shaken me and has made me take a long, hard, look at myself and I've realised that I don't know how to fix what I've broken (and I break a lot of things when it comes to people and friendships) but I care about this lass very much, and I want to find a way to fix what I've destroyed (if, indeed, it is fixable).

 

The problem is that because I can't see what's going on in the other person's world, I can't empathise and visualise what might be going on; this leads me to believe that they're ignoring me and, rather than acting like a 36-year-old woman, I explode at them and, this time, I posted something really nasty on her wall, which has led (unsurprisingly) to her blowing me out.

 

How do I work on this...? How do I change this...? I don't want this to sound like an excuse, but there is so much crashing down on me at the moment, that I'm just SCREAMING at the world. I've got this thing screaming in my head "WHY ME...?! WTF ME...?!" I've not left the house in 8 weeks (except to go to the doc's, and once I managed to get out to my friend's cafe at the weekend but, now, I'm not even able to squeeze into those clothes). I'm finding this very frightening and scary, and there's so much going round in my head - questions with no answers: -

 

"Is it what I'm eating...?" but I've been eating the same things ad nauseam et ad infinitum, since going low carb 3 years ago, so if I was going to have a reaction, surely it should have manifested itself before now...?!

 

"Is it PCOS related...?" but if it was, why am I having so much trouble, erm, emptying my bowels?

 

I went to the doc's the other day in my PJs (but I'd warned her I would turn up like that) but it was the looks and comments I got as I was walking through Chalfont St. Peter afterwards was the final straw. Didn't help that it was C3 chucking out time (C3 is a localism for the local comprehensive - Chalfonts Community College) and the abuse I had hurled at me by a gang of Year 9/10 girls that I had to run (well as much as I'm able these days) round the corner into the Memorial Garden. I had over an hour to kill before the bus back. I have to go back there on Tuesday to get bled at the hospital; thankfully, it's in the morning so the little sh*ts will still be in lessons. I'm not very good with needles, but I'm getting braver, provided it doesn't go on too long; thing is, the list of things I'm to be tested for runs to about 20, so how many phials that's going to be, I really dread to think! I've then got to go for a smear on the 1st and, somewhere in between (not got the appointment through yet) I've got to go for an ultrasound somewhere the other side of Wycombe (bus, train, taxi - this is really adding up cost-wise). Why can't it be at the hospital...? There's a bus which goes directly from the station to the entrance! Sick of all this stuff being farmed out!

 

Sorry this has gone OT again! Of COURSE I will apologise to her but, if she doesn't reply, I can see it happening all over again. If I don't know, because people don't TELL ME, then I simply think the worst of people. How do I explain myself to her...? I don't want to be seen as purely evil, (as my dear mother always used to point out to me - my name is very nearly 'harass' spelt backwards. I used to think it was just a coincidence, now I'm not so sure...). This is the one thing I have MASSIVE problems with, visualising what's going on in someone else's world if they don't explain things to me. I always think I've said something to upset them, which is why I start with the well, harassment, for lack of a better word. I always think I've said something evil, so I end up BEING evil, does that make sense...?

 

How do I apologise to her and, at the same time, explain why I am like I am (without it sounding like I'm making excuses for what I've said/done)...?

 

I reckon the isolation's getting to me now, too. Eight weeks without human contact (well almost!) I think would be enough to cause anyone to go stir crazy! I'm also in quite a deal of pain at the moment, which doesn't help matters...

 

As a final note, I learnt what I've been labelled with in the past (some of which I didn't even know about!)

 

Borderline Personality Disorder (this I did know about)

Schizoaffective Disorder (knew nothing about this)

Paranoid Personality Disorder

Schizoid Personality Disorder

Schizotypal Personality Disorder

Dependent Personality Disorder

 

The only ones I knew about are: - BPD, PPD, DPD. The rest were new ones on me, but I can easily see why I could be seen as being any one of them... Could any of them be mistaken for an ASC, or vice versa...?

 

I'm confused now, I don't really know who - or what - I am anymore.

 

Sorry this is so long, but I'm seeking answers. I'm feeling very lonely and isolated at the moment, and this exacerbates this behaviour. It's a vicious cycle and I don't know how to break it. This is why I'm here, looking for guidance, for answers, for solutions...

 

Hugs, <'>

 

Sarah xxx

[bid]

How do I work on this...? How do I change this...?

 

Well, you seem to have very good self-awareness, as you describe in detail what it is that you do. This identification of negative social behaviour is the most important first step to changing how you react to, and then interact with, other people.

 

But the only person who can take the next step, which is to modify these behaviours, is you. Perhaps you could think of more appropriate responses, maybe even write them down as a prompt for situations like Facebook which you have already identified as a trigger. How about as a starter, if you feel someone is ignoring you, simply ask them if things are OK? If you then get no reply, just say you hope they are OK, and send them a hug...then leave them be for a few days. I'm sure other people can think of more suggestions.

 

Bid

Edited February 18, 2011 by bid