philtfa Report post Posted July 10, 2011 My partner calls me an emotional retard. That's not very nice is it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special_talent123 Report post Posted July 10, 2011 no its not, some people dont understand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScienceGeek Report post Posted July 10, 2011 Nope not very nice. Then again the word retard used as an insult at any time would be bad given the connotations and the history of the word Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) On the surface it would appear not, but it could also depend a great deal on context, dynamics and individual interpretations of (and negative values attached to) the word 'retard'. Language evolves, and 'retard' is certainly a word that has different meanings for different people these days. Personally, I still find it horrible offensive, but that may be 'cos I'm an old codger! If YOU find it offensive and your partner means it offensively, and has no reason to be offending you (i.e. you're not in the middle of a row or something) then you seriously need to ask yourself if she's the girl/he's the boy for you  L&P  BD Edited July 10, 2011 by baddad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philtfa Report post Posted July 10, 2011 Well, I do find it offensive but I guess it's up to me to challenge her. This phrase has only been used since my diagnosis and only when we are arguing and, I guess, she is frustrated. I sometimes have problems understanding what people actually mean by the words they use. Retard is not a word I would ever use myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 10, 2011 Well, I do find it offensive but I guess it's up to me to challenge her. This phrase has only been used since my diagnosis and only when we are arguing and, I guess, she is frustrated. I sometimes have problems understanding what people actually mean by the words they use. Retard is not a word I would ever use myself. Â Yes, up to you to challenge her. Regardless of her frustration level, the fact that she has latched onto this term only since you've been diagnosed does suggest that she is using it, and your dx, as a sh!tty stick to hit you with. That's not 'frustration' it's just plain nastiness. If she can't see that and won't stop it I can only say that personally I'd have her off-hire. Obviously in practical terms that's never as cut and dried as I make it sound, but in principle it's probably bang on the money; it's abusive and intentional, and any relationship where intentional abuse becomes 'regular' (assuming you row fairly regularly as most couples tend to!) is a dysfunctional and ultimately demoralising one. Â HTH Â L&P Â BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathryn Report post Posted July 10, 2011 It's definitely an insult, and if people are rowing they will usually find the insults which will cause the maximum hurt. Â My cousin who is in his mid 50's and has learning difficulties was always described as "retarded" when he was growing up. This was the normal term to use for someone with any kind of developmental delay. It wouldn't be acceptable nowadays. Â K x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sally44 Report post Posted July 10, 2011 In any relationship there has to be mutual respect. So you need to say you will not tolerate that kind of language in the same way that she would not like to be called offensive names. It takes two. Although your diagnosis may mean you find some things difficult your partner is capable of adapting their language to help you understand and if you don't get it, that does not make you a retard. Don't put up with it because it will escalate and she will put the blame for everything that goes wrong on your diagnosis. If you say you will not tolerate that kind of language, there is a possibility she may leave. But if I had received a diagnosis I would expect support and understanding from my partner, not abuse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 10, 2011 Although your diagnosis may mean you find some things difficult your partner is capable of adapting their language to help you understand and if you don't get it, that does not make you a retard. Â Just wanted to pick up in this bit, because it sort of assumes that if there is an emotional 'difference' it must be the person (almost invariably male - the stereotype seems far less generalised among the female autistic population) with AS getting it 'wrong'. I believe that huge numbers of women believe huge numbers of men to be 'emotionally retarded' and it has nothing whatsoever to do with autism but is just a difference between men and women that is increasingly being labelled as an 'autistic' stereotype because of all the twaddle that's been spoken about 'male brains'. Women's emotional responses can seem equally incomprehensible to men, and men have stock phrases ('wrong time of the month', 'highly strung', 'attack of the vapours', 'high maintenance', 'hysterical' etc et al) to define them which women find incredibly offensive. Let's give the poster - and 'men' generally - the benefit of the doubt, eh? and accept that this is just a set of different biological expectations rather than any sort of flaw or 'retardation', and maybe that there is an equal imperative on both sides to find a mutually acceptable compromise rather than a one sided one where the 'faulty' male (AS or otherwise) is helped to see the lady's (Cassandra's? ) point of view and the error of his ways. Â Â L&P Â BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkshine Report post Posted July 11, 2011 Is it just me who thinks this... but why does your partner call you that? or when? Â Is it when you say good morning? or during dinner? or only when you argue? or cuz she gets angry or something? Â Do you think its her fault? or yours? or both your faults? Â ........................................................................................................ Â Who cares about cassandra BD? The biggest thing you could moan at sally44 for is assuming that it is the dx that effects emotional communication etc, and not necessarily because the OP is a man?!? (I really don't think gender was mentioned in this way?) There's a slight assumption that communication was the issue (but I kinda made this assumption too tbh) and personally it had nothing to do with gender.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sally44 Report post Posted July 11, 2011 Just wanted to pick up in this bit, because it sort of assumes that if there is an emotional 'difference' it must be the person (almost invariably male - the stereotype seems far less generalised among the female autistic population) with AS getting it 'wrong'. I believe that huge numbers of women believe huge numbers of men to be 'emotionally retarded' and it has nothing whatsoever to do with autism but is just a difference between men and women that is increasingly being labelled as an 'autistic' stereotype because of all the twaddle that's been spoken about 'male brains'. Women's emotional responses can seem equally incomprehensible to men, and men have stock phrases ('wrong time of the month', 'highly strung', 'attack of the vapours', 'high maintenance', 'hysterical' etc et al) to define them which women find incredibly offensive. Let's give the poster - and 'men' generally - the benefit of the doubt, eh? and accept that this is just a set of different biological expectations rather than any sort of flaw or 'retardation', and maybe that there is an equal imperative on both sides to find a mutually acceptable compromise rather than a one sided one where the 'faulty' male (AS or otherwise) is helped to see the lady's (Cassandra's? ) point of view and the error of his ways. Â Â L&P Â BD Â Â Exactly, I agree. But it is the OP that says that "since diagnosis" this language has been used. Which suggests his partner is blaming the diagnosis for his lack of emotional understanding??? Which may or may not be due to the diagnosis. But as that is an area of difficulty under the criteria it maybe a valid point, but if it were my partner, I would expect support not abuse. A diagnosis of anything can sometimes change a relationship. But you don't want your partner to blame every difficulty or failure by you or her and project it onto your diagnosis making you the scapegoat for everything. Personally I don't find the word "retard" acceptable in any situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 11, 2011  Who cares about cassandra BD?  'Cassandra' counselling is a form of counselling that identifies autistic men as 'emotional F***wits' (as Bridget Jones would put it - showing the degree to which this is general female stereotyping of men rather than something that applies or should be applied to autistic men as a 'sub-species') and the women who marry, go out with, or care for them as their long suffering 'victims'. It is an entirely abusive form of counselling (IMO) based exclusively on the assumption of 'f***wittage' (Bridget sneaking in again) and blame rather than a realistic interpretation of neurological processing differences that have been clarly established for centuires. If husbands/lovers/male carers started asking their wives/partners/cared person to start attending counselling sessions based on the underlying premise that they were 'hysterical' or 'neurotic' and that the men in their lives were the long suffering victims of that hysteria/neurosis there would be, quite rightly, outrage...  I really don't think gender was mentioned in this way  No, it wasn't, but it is inherent within the accusation, because 'emotional f***wittage' is precisely identified socially as a 'male' syndrome in the same way that 'neuroticism' and/or 'hysteria' are primarily M'Lady's malady - the latter, in fact, technically exclusively a Lady malady.  If you look back through the threads on this forum or any other you'll find many MANY posts from women who have 'identified' their men as autistic purely and simply because the men enact exactly the same behaviours that women have complained about men enacting for centuries, behaviours that quite evidently have nothing to do with autism but everything to do with the way women perceive male 'thinking'. The ones where men have identified their female partners as autistic are a - rare as rocking horse poo, and b - do not relate to traits that would be readily identifiable as 'f***wittage, OR generalised male concepts of hysteria or neuroticism (NB: I use the term neuroticism rather than neurosys ecause I think the latter is applied far more equally to both sexes, if that makes sense).  I would be incredibly surprised if there wasn't a gender element to the accusation being made, and would even speculate that the whole identification of these 'traits' as autistic (including, possibly, the pursuit of a dx) may well have arisen from speculation on the lady in the equations part in the first place.  That's why I care about Cassandra - because it is a form of 'support' that demonises men generally (and autistic men - like my son - specifically), while simultaneously reinforcing all of the negative stereotypes women like to believe and assume (victim, martyr etc) and providing women with the 'sh!tty stick' mentioned above they can then use - as in the OP's case - to beat their partner over the head.  Hope that clarifies.  L&P  BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkshine Report post Posted July 11, 2011 Hey BD Â No your reply doesn't help really (well it doesn't help me)... You have already described this a few times now... but you are forever assuming that women do this to men, and to be honest it just comes across as if you are bitter. Â I understand your opinion on this matter and do not contest the points you make but this is not the explanation for every situation like this. AND. Sometimes.... Men can fit these descriptions of typical males just as women can fit the male descriptions (this may be as often/as much as women can be hysterical but so can men!!!). Â The OP didn't give much detail, which is why I asked the following: Â Is it just me who thinks this... but why does your partner call you that? or when? Â Is it when you say good morning? or during dinner? or only when you argue? or cuz she gets angry or something? Â Do you think its her fault? or yours? or both your faults? Â If these questions are to be answered this could enlightened us further to then ascertain whether the OP was at fault in some way (or not!!!!) and then further let us see whether this is the type of circumstance you describe? Â Because basically WE DO NOT KNOW whether this is a male/female issue, a NT/ASD issue or a emotional/communication issue? Â That's the way I saw it. I figured that it would be more helpful to the OP to try and work out the why's in order to work out the what next's - I didn't see how pointing out the whole messy cassandra situation helped. Â There are too many assumptions. The OP doesn't say if they are otherwise happy. And there are a million other questions about this. Â Maybe I am mistaken/off the mark, but its just the way I saw it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 11, 2011 Hey BD  No your reply doesn't help really (well it doesn't help me)... You have already described this a few times now... but you are forever assuming that women do this to men, and to be honest it just comes across as if you are bitter.  I understand your opinion on this matter and do not contest the points you make but this is not the explanation for every situation like this. AND. Sometimes.... Men can fit these descriptions of typical males just as women can fit the male descriptions (this may be as often/as much as women can be hysterical but so can men!!!).  The OP didn't give much detail, which is why I asked the following:    If these questions are to be answered this could enlightened us further to then ascertain whether the OP was at fault in some way (or not!!!!) and then further let us see whether this is the type of circumstance you describe?  Because basically WE DO NOT KNOW whether this is a male/female issue, a NT/ASD issue or a emotional/communication issue?  That's the way I saw it. I figured that it would be more helpful to the OP to try and work out the why's in order to work out the what next's - I didn't see how pointing out the whole messy cassandra situation helped.  There are too many assumptions. The OP doesn't say if they are otherwise happy. And there are a million other questions about this.  Maybe I am mistaken/off the mark, but its just the way I saw it.   Hi darkshine - it may make it clearer if I you look at my first post in this thread,  http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/Index.php?/topic/26953-emotional-retard/page__view__findpost__p__309866  then the OP's reply stating that this has happened when they row and only since diagnosis  http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/Index.php?/topic/26953-emotional-retard/page__view__findpost__p__309871  Sadly, (and you'll have to trust me on this) you'll have to write off the assumption that my posts on this are 'bitter' in any 'I stand accused' sort of way, as in most of the relationships I've had these haven't been accusations that have been made against me. Whether the women have felt that way or not I couldn't say, but if so they have not been the things they've highlighted as the 'problems' in our relationship, and I'm certainly not going to air in public the 'dirty laundry' that did apply - either their perspectives of me or my perspectives of them!  The reason, as I've said, that I do tend to regard these dynamics as 'cassandra related' is quite simply that in the majority of cases they are... There have been countless posts on this forum where women have identified abusive or dysfunctional partners as autistic, and in just about every case the 'abuses' or 'dysfunctions' have linked directly to the age-old accusations that women have made about men since we stood up as a species and started walking around on two legs, and that can in fact even be identified in the group/gender dynamics of our genetic cousins who never took that step... So I'm not saying it's an explanation for every situation, but it certainly is the explanation in most - which you can only really confirm by trawling back through the posts on here or by researching generally on 'things women hate about men' if you want to see exactly the same accusations but without the autism spin.  I think, in very simple terms, that Cassandra - and the thinking behind it - is a dangerous form of therapy, because it makes potentially vulnerable men open to abuse. If the situation were reversed and there were 'hysteria' and 'neurotic' counselling services that identified natural traits of feminine psychology as flawed or damaged or broken (and there were, in days gone by, many) and laid potentially vulnerable women open to abuse I would take exactly the same view and be equally outspoken about them... You'll have to take my word on that too, but if you can find one of those occasional posts where women have been unfairly treated in similar ways I'll certainly have posted if I've seen it...  I don't really want to take up any more of the OP's thread discussing my views on cassandra and male and female stereotypes or their differing psychologies, because they're 'out there' now as far as this thread goes and if they seem relevent to the OP or not he's free to consider them or not... I don't think you can ignore the dynamic, though, in any situation where a woman is calling a man an 'emotional retard' given the almost universal application of the term to men - whether autistic or not - by disgruntled women (by which I mean women when they are disgruntled, not that all women are permanently disgruntled!), and I'll continue to highlight it as an issue regardless of how many people interpret it, erroneously, as an indication of some sort of personal grudge or bitterness!  L&P  BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Callum_ Report post Posted July 11, 2011 Hate that word now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkshine Report post Posted July 11, 2011 I don't really want to take up any more of the OP's thread discussing my views on cassandra and male and female stereotypes or their differing psychologies, because they're 'out there' now as far as this thread goes and if they seem relevent to the OP or not he's free to consider them or not... I don't think you can ignore the dynamic, though, in any situation where a woman is calling a man an 'emotional retard' given the almost universal application of the term to men - whether autistic or not - by disgruntled women (by which I mean women when they are disgruntled, not that all women are permanently disgruntled!), and I'll continue to highlight it as an issue regardless of how many people interpret it, erroneously, as an indication of some sort of personal grudge or bitterness! Â L&P Â BD I do see your point, and I am not accusing you of being sexist, it just seems to be a recurring answer that's all. I apologise for missing the 2 links you helpfully provided - and I did miss seeing them for some reason - but they still don't make it clear to me about the actual situation going on here but never mind... I just said you sound bitter - not that you are - not my business Thanks for the war and peace clarification though Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 11, 2011 I do see your point, and I am not accusing you of being sexist, it just seems to be a recurring answer that's all. I apologise for missing the 2 links you helpfully provided - and I did miss seeing them for some reason - but they still don't make it clear to me about the actual situation going on here but never mind... I just said you sound bitter - not that you are - not my business Thanks for the war and peace clarification though   It's a recurring answer because it's a recurring issue... I've posted the same information/opinions/observations repeatedly on all sorts of other issues too. And if the issue comes up again (either this issue or one of those other issues) I'll repeat myself again! It's what everybody here does - on issues as diverse as bedtime routines, toilet training, making friends etc etc etc etc...  L&P  BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philtfa Report post Posted July 11, 2011 In my original post I pondered whether being called an emotional retard was a "nice" thing. I didn't think it was and neither did I expect to have anyone say it was either. I was seeking reassurance for the way I felt. I then further clarified that I was being called this since my diagnosis. My partner has often despaired at my emotional conduct which doesn't fit with her expectations. I suspect that since the diagnosis that she is frustrated because the emphasis has shifted from me changing my ways to her having to accept and understand the way I am. And no I am not using my diagnosis as an excuse! Although we are both on a new road now it is as challenging as before but for different reasons. I suspect that I, and possibly other Aspies, have a harder time in relationships because I/we rely on others to lead and show me/us how to behave and when I/we, inevitably, fail I/we am/are abused and taken advantage of. Anyway, I shall be challenging my partner the next time this phrase is used. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 11, 2011 In my original post I pondered whether being called an emotional retard was a "nice" thing. I didn't think it was and neither did I expect to have anyone say it was either. I was seeking reassurance for the way I felt. I then further clarified that I was being called this since my diagnosis. My partner has often despaired at my emotional conduct which doesn't fit with her expectations. Although we are both on a new road now it is as challenging as before but for different reasons. Anyway, I shall be challenging my partner the next time this phrase is used.  Ahhhh... I said somewhere above that I would take the same view regardless of the direction of the male /female dynamic and be equally outspoken about it. So here goes...  Philtfa - I did wonder when I originally read your post if it was potentially manipulative - hence my initial reply saying 'it would depend on context'. Having now read these lines  I suspect that since the diagnosis that she is frustrated because the emphasis has shifted from me changing my ways to her having to accept and understand the way I am. And no I am not using my diagnosis as an excuse!  I'm pretty much left with the opinion that there are two people here who are more than happy to wield the dx as a kakky stick snd use it on their other half.  Your partner does not 'have to accept and understand you the way you are' and in no way does autism imply that you are incapable of change. Your partner also has the quite legitimate choice, if you are only offering her a 'like it or lump it' future, of saying 'no' and doing one. Faced with such an ultimatum, I wouldn't blame her at all. I've also in my earlier posts spoken out against women assuming the 'victim role' of Cassandra and using that as a kakky stick to beat their partner's with. I think the reverse of that dynamic is inherent in your last post here:  I suspect that I, and possibly other Aspies, have a harder time in relationships because I/we rely on others to lead and show me/us how to behave and when I/we, inevitably, fail I/we am/are abused and taken advantage of.  If you genuinely feel that you are being 'abused and taken advantage of' you also have the quite legitimate choice of saying 'no' and doing one, and again, faced with a future where that would be likely I wouldn't blame you at all. To be abused and taken advantage of you have to stay with the person abusing/taking advantage... why would you choose to do that rather than walking away?  In fact, I'm left wondering why either of you are bothering at all, and why the hell you're wasting time scoring points off each other rather than looking for more fulfilling relationships elsewhere.  L&P  BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkshine Report post Posted July 11, 2011 In my original post I pondered whether being called an emotional retard was a "nice" thing. I didn't think it was and neither did I expect to have anyone say it was either. I was seeking reassurance for the way I felt. I then further clarified that I was being called this since my diagnosis. My partner has often despaired at my emotional conduct which doesn't fit with her expectations. I suspect that since the diagnosis that she is frustrated because the emphasis has shifted from me changing my ways to her having to accept and understand the way I am. And no I am not using my diagnosis as an excuse! Although we are both on a new road now it is as challenging as before but for different reasons. I suspect that I, and possibly other Aspies, have a harder time in relationships because I/we rely on others to lead and show me/us how to behave and when I/we, inevitably, fail I/we am/are abused and taken advantage of. Anyway, I shall be challenging my partner the next time this phrase is used. Thank you for saying a bit more - I would definitely be challenging her about it if this phrase is used again as it cannot be viewed in a nice way at all in this context.  I don't see why the dx means that the emphasis has shifted from you changing to her accepting.  Technically you are in a partnership, to improve this area you need to understand each other and maybe both try to change a little towards a common ground. The dx doesn't mean you can't change, or that she should drop her expectations, however, it may require her to adjust her expectations (especially if they are unrealistic or unfair) and it also might mean you may need to consider if there are areas you wish to work on, if you feel there are issues you can deal with.  You don't deserve abuse or to be taken advantage of but I suspect that people on the spectrum who are just as capable of leading the way sometimes - why should the NT's know everything? They don't. Just like everybody else.  I think that the same issues can apply in all relationships and has more to do with individual actions rather than whether they are on the spectrum - you may need to think about things in your own way, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't get a say, be treated fairly and with respect, and be heard.  Best  Darkshine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mumble Report post Posted July 12, 2011 I suspect that since the diagnosis that she is frustrated because the emphasis has shifted from me changing my ways to her having to accept and understand the way I am. And no I am not using my diagnosis as an excuse! Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but those two sentences do appear quite contradictory. The first suggests all the change has to come from her with no room for manoeuver on your part, but the second suggests that you're not saying you can't change? Â One of the most positive things to come out of my dx (and this certainly hasn't been an overnight thing - it's taken years of work and is still ongoing) is an understanding of myself, where I struggle, how I come across in different circumstances, how others may be interpreting my behaviours, etc. Some of it hasn't been nice to find out. What it has done is enable me to see where I have to change if I want others to react positively towards me. I do believe I have changed, for the better, in the last few years (but still lots to do!!) and having the understanding that comes with the dx has enabled that. Â Of course there have been times over the past 4+ years where I've said "I can't, I'm Autistic" or words to the same effect, but I've also come to understand that if I take that perspective then hey presto, that's generally the outcome - no change. I've also had other people who have since my dx said "you can't, you're Autistic"; sometimes I've fought against that but, especially soon after dx, there were times I'd just agree and sink really low. Â I would say that in your situation, work needs to be done by both of you, equally, with no excuses on either side. Yes, deal with the 'retard' comment, but I think it goes deeper than that. You're still the same person you were prior to dx, but having a label invariably changes how we and others react - that's quite normal and part of the post-dx adjustment. What is really upsetting your partner about your behaviour, get examples, then work on what you can do to change that, or shift things back to how they were pre-dx. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but those two sentences do appear quite contradictory. The first suggests all the change has to come from her with no room for manoeuver on your part, but the second suggests that you're not saying you can't change? Â Â Â Hi mumble - Â I read this completely differently to you - that philtfa suggests all the change, now he's been dx'd, has to come from his girlfriend with no compromise on his part, coupled with the (ridiculous) notion that the dx is not an excuse because it proves he is incapable of any sort of compromise... Â Basically, I think now he's got his dx he feels it's a tool he can use (kakky stick) to justify unreasonable demands - what he sees as 'compromises' on her part - he makes of her, and that if she doesn't agree to those demands she will be 'guilt tripped' with accusations of behaving abusively towards a disabled person. The phrasing of the opening post suggested that possibility to me from the start - offering a 'shocking' scenario without any real context in order to garner shocked reactions that could then be used as ammunition - which is why I responded initially as I did. Â Yes, the word 'retard' is totally offensive (or 'not very nice') and his girlfriend shouldn't use it, but I don't really believe philtfa needed anyone to tell him that, do you? But I think the context seen now is very different to the one we were originally presented with, i.e. an angry girlfriend using offensive words and a manipulative boyfriend trying to force his will upon her and justify doing so through his dx and by manipulating others to 'agree' with him. Â Not a very pretty picture is it? Â L&P Â BD Â PS: I anticipate the OP will prefer your interpretation and dislike mine greatly, but if he does he'll at least have to accept the inherent contradiction you've highlighted and in so doing agree that compromise on his part is possible and achievable. Either way, good news for the girlfriend. Â Oh PPS: Just came back to answer the post below and on re-reading this post noticed: Â ...a manipulative boyfriend trying to force his will upon her and justify doing so through his dx and by manipulating others to 'agree' with him. Â I just wanted to add that this ties in exactly with the 'Cassandra' stuff I was talking about earlier in the thread and that these behaviours are NOT indicative of or intrinsic to autism... Edited July 12, 2011 by baddad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special_talent123 Report post Posted July 12, 2011 i am a female young adult with autism, and i don't judge people. however even if i watch tv i could put up traits of it. Like my house mate carer, he seemed to have aspergers and he did actually say something along the lines of he is campaigning rights for aspergers or its a criminal offence. I then said i had autism, he said he were diagnosed with aspergers so i could pick up his traits. Â Any way, i think we should stop arguing on here, it doesnt help one bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 12, 2011 Any way, i think we should stop arguing on here, it doesnt help one bit.  Hi special talent -  why do you think people are 'arguing on here'?  The OP asked a question, and has received 100% confirmation that the word retard is, as he thought, offensive and his girlfriend shouldn't be using it. Expanding upon that the OP then introduced further information describing a potentially abusive relationship that people have also commented on, and again, every post responding to that additional information has agreed that autistic people are capable of compromise, most of those posts being written by people who are autistic. That's actually a very positive thing, and doesn't suggest any sort of argument at all. That the answers might not be the answers the OP was looking for is a moot point - that's the nature of asking questions, and it would be pointless asking questions if people were restricted to only offering responses that confirmed what the asker wanted to hear!  Hope that's helpful  L&P  BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special_talent123 Report post Posted July 12, 2011 just speak in a calm way, or it comes across as arguing. there is a word for it unknown to some people ' netiquette', which means is acceptable way of communicating on the internet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 12, 2011 just speak in a calm way, or it comes across as arguing. there is a word for it unknown to some people ' netiquette', which means is acceptable way of communicating on the internet. Â Hi again special talent - Why do you think people are speaking 'not in a calm way'? 'Netiquette' doesn't mean not saying what you think. There has been no name calling, no SHOUTING, everyone has agreed with the original observation made, and most seem in general agreement regarding other issues that have arisen since. That's pretty good going considering the thread is one where verbal abuse and the potential wider abuse and manipulation of others are key points under discussion, and where suggestions have been raised of people possibly 'coming across' as embittered towards women or sexist. Â L&P Â BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special_talent123 Report post Posted July 12, 2011 im not getting into an argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 12, 2011 Hi again special talent - Â No one is arguing with you. Why do you feel they are? Â L&P Â BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special_talent123 Report post Posted July 12, 2011 ok, ok. im sorry. i want to forget this now. waiting for a doctor to call me not well whiplash is worse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 12, 2011 Nothing to apologise for... Hope the call from the doctor is a positive one  L&P  BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sally44 Report post Posted July 12, 2011 I don't doubt that anyone can change, if they really want to. But to what degree? Not being on the spectrum, but listening to what others have said about the social/emotional difficulties they experience, it would seem that even when they try, these skills are book learnt, rote learnt, often with no real understanding of how to apply or adapt that learning into the many and varied situations and circumstances that confront us all. So, although there may be 'improvement' it will surely NEVER become automatic and instinctive as others function (although that too is on a spectrum). So I don't think either phrase is really correct. Â And, if we are honest, to what extent do any of us "work on the things we are not good at" or "work at the things we repeatedly fail at and that make us feel bad". Most people do try to improve their bad areas, but often channel most of their energies into things they are good at and which they enjoy. Why do we always expect that those on the spectrum have to dedicate their life to 'improving themselves'. Â I think any relationship has to be a combination of working at it, and accepting as well. Otherwise it becomes an ultimatum ie. I will continue to love you if you - lose weight - become funny - are romantic - show an interest in sports etc. The person you met, is essentially the person you met. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkshine Report post Posted July 12, 2011 I just wanted to add that this ties in exactly with the 'Cassandra' stuff I was talking about earlier in the thread and that these behaviours are NOT indicative of or intrinsic to autism... So your point is what? That he's in the wrong or that it's all his partner's fault?!? Or that the whole discussion is purely unrelated to autism and autism cannot effect people in this way at all? Â Sorry, am totally lost Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indiscreet Report post Posted July 12, 2011 So your point is what? That he's in the wrong or that it's all his partner's fault?!? Or that the whole discussion is purely unrelated to autism and autism cannot effect people in this way at all?  Sorry, am totally lost  Me too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Really? Â L&P Â BD Edited July 12, 2011 by baddad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philtfa Report post Posted July 12, 2011 Baddad are you on the spectrum? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkshine Report post Posted July 12, 2011 Really? Â L&P Â BD Yes really Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matzoball Report post Posted July 12, 2011 Use of the r word is wrong. No matter who says it or the motivation behind it. Â Being in a relationship myself, I have come to learn that regardless of DX - people eff up on either side of the relationship. You both need to work on what you need to work on. Â Having a DX doesn't mean automatically a person can say no i can't im autistic, because you don't know for sure you can't until you challenge those behaviours. Being NT doesn't automatically mean that a person can use their partners DX as an excuse to fling abuse at them because they have label to subscribe to. Male or female. Â I certainly don't use my DX as a crutch when The Dude and I have arguments. I have anger issues that are nothing to do with being on the spectrum and I have had to learn to challenge my anger and deal with it better. Â What I am trying to say is you both need to meet half way. Let her know that what she is saying is hurting you and why. Then you can work on getting through those issues together. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philtfa Report post Posted July 12, 2011 I said I suspect that since the diagnosis that she is frustrated because the emphasis has shifted from me changing my ways to her having to accept and understand the way I am. And no I am not using my diagnosis as an excuse! Perhaps that wasn't clear. Â Before diagnosis I behaved strangely in her opinion. I tried to change, failed, wondered what was wrong with me etc and round and round we went. Diagnosis I still behave strangely in her opinion but now we know why. I am NOT saying that she has to accept the way I am, I am saying that she has to understand for us to move forward. Perhaps I didn't make that clear. Of course change is possible but much more difficult when you are Aspie. I HAVE changed as I have got older but it has been extremely difficult and very exhausting. I will NEVER use my condition as an excuse but it IS a reason. Â @baddad. You have a lot to say and don't hold back in saying it. I was especially mystified by "In fact, I'm left wondering why either of you are bothering at all, and why the hell you're wasting time scoring points off each other rather than looking for more fulfilling relationships elsewhere." I find your tone patronising but maybe I am misreading the situation, it wouldn't be the first time! Â Sally 44 said: I don't doubt that anyone can change, if they really want to. But to what degree? Not being on the spectrum, but listening to what others have said about the social/emotional difficulties they experience, it would seem that even when they try, these skills are book learnt, rote learnt, often with no real understanding of how to apply or adapt that learning into the many and varied situations and circumstances that confront us all. So, although there may be 'improvement' it will surely NEVER become automatic and instinctive as others function (although that too is on a spectrum). So I don't think either phrase is really correct. which I found very perceptive. Â My partner doesn't understand what it is to be an Aspie. I don't understand what it is like to be NT. But there is a BIG difference. Maybe we will meet in the middle? Time will tell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted July 12, 2011 @baddad. You have a lot to say and don't hold back in saying it. I was especially mystified by "In fact, I'm left wondering why either of you are bothering at all, and why the hell you're wasting time scoring points off each other rather than looking for more fulfilling relationships elsewhere." I find your tone patronising but maybe I am misreading the situation, it wouldn't be the first time! Â Â No, patronising is the exact opposite of what I'm being - I'm saying exactly what I think, not what I think you want to hear. I think sally 44 has said what you want to hear, which is why you find her post 'perceptive'. I don't think she's 'patronising' you either, but I think the reason you find one reply patronising and one 'perceptive' has everything to do with one confirming/reinforcing what you want to think and one not. Why are you "mystified"? Â L&P Â BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indiscreet Report post Posted July 13, 2011 Baddad are you on the spectrum? Â Baddad, in view of your strongly felt views on a number of issues I think it would be helpful to know whether you are expressing them as an 'insider' or an 'outsider'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
