New member

[littleplum]

Hello,

 

I found the forum a few days ago and joined straightaway. I came across Asperger's Syndrome a few years ago through a book on famous people who may have had the condition. The case studies chimed with my own thoughts as to why I behave as I do, and why others seem to keep me at a distance. I then did an online test that confirmed I was in the AS 'zone'. I am now reading Tony Attwood's book and I am astonished at what seem to me to be deep insights into my own life.

 

I am not sure it is necessary to get an 'official' diagnosis. I am in late middle age, semi-retired, and I now believe that at last I understand so many aspects of my past life. It has made me feel rather remorseful about the many people I encountered through life who must have been mystified by my apparent aloofness and rather 'detached' personality. At the same time I feel relieved because I could never understand why lasting friendships never happened for me. I always tried to appear 'normal' whenever I met someone new socially. I read that it was important to make eye contact and to listen. So I did both and quite often the other person opened up about themselves, sometimes to an extraordinary extent. However, no one ever seemed interested in any kind of ongoing contact.

 

On the other hand I am happily married with grown up children, and my family have been really patient and understanding about my 'foibles'. As a result of their support, and the advancing years, I have mellowed a bit. I have (mostly) learnt to keep quiet when confronted with some hideous behaviour (e.g. a tea stain on the carpet) that would have made me go ballistic when I was younger. I have also learnt that my AS is most apparent when I am tired, so good sleep is vital.

 

It may well be too late to do anything about my non-existent social skills. I sometimes think other people must have a 'sixth sense' that helps them decide about those they meet. I am not rude or overbearing in company. I smile and nod when I am listening. It seems I have got the mechanics of social interaction more or less right, but there is still something missing. Of course it does not help that I have no interest in sport or drinking, so that reduces considerably my scope for male companionship. I tend to mix better with women, although even those I have met seem to find me a little offputting.

 

I find the whole concept of teamwork, so prevalent in today's world, to be excruciating. I prefer to be self-sufficient, to figure things out for myself, and make my own mistakes. Of course, this is not what an employer wants to hear so work, when I was in employment, could be difficult. I coped by developing a certain expertise that made me somewhat valuable to the company. This allowed me some latitude to be an 'oddball', but eventually I could see that my career had reached a cul de sac and I left. Running my own one-man business afterwards was hugely liberating in that I could work uninterrupted on my own. Now I am a student again and enjoying it hugely. I study intensely and as long as I meet my deadlines I am left pretty much to my own devices.

 

Sorry for boring to death anyone who reads the above. It is nice to know there are others like me out there.

Edited July 20, 2011 by littleplum

[Linnet]

Hello Littleplum, Welcome to the forum. Like you I am a fairly new member and I am also middle aged, married and with a grown up son. I have spent most of my life wondering why I was 'different' and why I found it so difficult to form close friendships. It's great to read posts on the forum and know that there are others like me. I'm sure you'll find this too.

 

L x

[oxgirl]

Hi and welcome,

 

I find it quite interesting that you both say you have trouble forming relationships and yet both of you are married and have managed to maintain your marriages. My lad is nearly 18 and has never had a friend. I can't ever see him getting married, although I do dream of it for his future. How did you both manage to meet and marry your partners with such limited social skills?

No offence intended in asking this question, I'm just interested to know how marriage can come about without being able to make relationships with others. Is there hope for my lad?

 

~ Mel ~

[littleplum]

My lad is nearly 18 and has never had a friend. I can't ever see him getting married, although I do dream of it for his future. How did you both manage to meet and marry your partners with such limited social skills?

No offence intended in asking this question, I'm just interested to know how marriage can come about without being able to make relationships with others. Is there hope for my lad?

 

~ Mel ~

Thanks for the welcome Mel and Linnet.

 

Speaking for myself, I met my future wife when I was a teenager. She was my only girlfriend and we married in our twenties. I had one male friend at the time - we were both intensely interested in music and collecting records - and he introduced me to this very shy girl. I was drawn to her because she seemed as tongue-tied as I was and we came from a similar, deprived background. So it was just good luck really. Left to my own devices I don't think I would ever have formed a relationship like that.

 

Does your son have any particular interests or hobbies that he could share through a local outlet or organisation? I doubt if he would be interested in the usual bar or nightclub scene as a way to meet a possible future partner. Perhaps he is thinking of going to university. If so, I can vouch for the fact that there he will encounter all sorts of people, including perhaps one or two kindred spirits.

 

A lot depends on his determination not to allow AS to dominate or limit his life. It is more difficult to get on in the world with the condition, but by no means impossible. It is good that he has a loving mother to encourage him.

[darkshine]

It may well be too late to do anything about my non-existent social skills. I sometimes think other people must have a 'sixth sense' that helps them decide about those they meet. I am not rude or overbearing in company. I smile and nod when I am listening. It seems I have got the mechanics of social interaction more or less right, but there is still something missing. Of course it does not help that I have no interest in sport or drinking, so that reduces considerably my scope for male companionship. I tend to mix better with women, although even those I have met seem to find me a little offputting.

Hello

Some people say that it's never too late

Good luck in your quest of understanding.

Darkshine

[philtfa]

You haven't bored me. I have found it comforting to hear from others like/similar to me. Your story reads very similar to mine apart from the happily married bit! Oh, and I like football and a drink!! But that apart your description of your aloofness and detachment, learning to appear normal etc all sound familiar. Relationships/friendships remain very difficult for me. Communication always seem to be misunderstood. I remain, at the age of 53, bemused and confused by the world. And very lonely. Understanding Aspergers and how it has affected ones life is one thing but moving forward with this recently gained knowledge is proving to be difficult at the moment for me.

[littleplum]

Hello

Some people say that it's never too late

Good luck in your quest of understanding.

Darkshine

 

Thanks Darkshine. I certainly won't stop trying anyway.

[littleplum]

Understanding Aspergers and how it has affected ones life is one thing but moving forward with this recently gained knowledge is proving to be difficult at the moment for me.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Philtfa. I agree completely about the effect an AS diagnosis has. It certainly helped me make sense of the past, but it does not really help of itself in moving forward. What it does do I think is make it possible to accept yourself as someone with an innate condition that makes it difficult to form relationships.

 

I used to wonder what on earth I was doing to put people off. I would check if I had bad breath or if my flies were undone. I became super-polite and developed a kind of avuncular personality that I could sustain for a few hours. Many years ago I received one piece of feedback from a colleague, delivered in a nasty way, that I was somehow insincere. That made me realise that other people can see if you are not being yourself and withdraw.

 

I think the real key to loneliness is the feeling that no one really understands you. You could be surrounded by people and still feel alone in that way. I think that is because we see the world differently to most others. At least that is my experience.

 

I hope things get better for you.

[Linnet]

Hi and welcome,

 

I find it quite interesting that you both say you have trouble forming relationships and yet both of you are married and have managed to maintain your marriages. My lad is nearly 18 and has never had a friend. I can't ever see him getting married, although I do dream of it for his future. How did you both manage to meet and marry your partners with such limited social skills?

No offence intended in asking this question, I'm just interested to know how marriage can come about without being able to make relationships with others. Is there hope for my lad?

 

~ Mel ~

[darkshine]

Thanks Darkshine. I certainly won't stop trying anyway.

Well, I think that's pretty positive littleplum, I myself am at the cusp of fighting again as I feel like giving up (on trying) it is a bad start of a day and everything feels impossible and I think it is these times that come to test people.

 

I once said to someone that it is really hard to be "trying" all the time. He told me to stop trying and get on with it - but I don't feel like its that easy cuz even when I do "get on with it" I still have to try

 

 

I think the real key to loneliness is the feeling that no one really understands you. You could be surrounded by people and still feel alone in that way. I think that is because we see the world differently to most others. At least that is my experience.

 

I hope things get better for you.

I've said that kind of phrase a lot of times in my life... that you know loneliness best when you realise that you can be stood in the most crowded room and STILL feel alone... loneliness sucks.

 

I reckon it comes from no one understanding too.

 

But if no-one ever understands you, does it ever decrease, or do you reckon that lonely people have to understand everyone else, or themselves or whatever?

 

Best

Darkshine

[Linnet]

Hi Mel

 

I met my first husband at school. He was my first boyfriend and like littleplum's wife he was very shy and reserved. We were together 18 years and during that time he took complete control of my life. He didn't want me to have any friends so I just sort of gave up on trying to make friends. I met my second husband at work, he is quite a lot younger than me and has many ASD traits himself. He looks after me. He isn't interested in girlie women and likes the fact that I hate shopping, don't do gossip, don't watch soaps and love watching snooker and darts. I think I was able to form these relationships because I am good at copying other peoples behaviour so as to appear 'normal' and also because both my husband and ex-husband have very outgoing, extrovert mothers and they thought my long periods of silence a refreshing change!

 

I think it is important for your son to meet people with shared interests as it's so hard to think of things to talk about without this.

 

L

[darkshine]

Hi and welcome,

 

I find it quite interesting that you both say you have trouble forming relationships and yet both of you are married and have managed to maintain your marriages. My lad is nearly 18 and has never had a friend. I can't ever see him getting married, although I do dream of it for his future. How did you both manage to meet and marry your partners with such limited social skills?

No offence intended in asking this question, I'm just interested to know how marriage can come about without being able to make relationships with others. Is there hope for my lad?

 

~ Mel ~

Hi mel, I think there is hope, I struggle with forming relationships (with friends, family and other relationships) but that doesn't mean they are totally impossible - I think that sometimes it has to do with finding the "right" people, some are more understanding than others, some are more accepting, some are more open to difference, and some, well, some people may just look at each other and like each other and be willing to make the effort and take the time.

 

And the only way for that to happen is by having as much contact with people in different situations as possible.

 

I think that to a degree, social skills can be learnt (however tedious and slow the progress) and that there must be hope cuz otherwise there would be no point.

 

Best

Darkshine

Edited July 21, 2011 by darkshine

[littleplum]

But if no-one ever understands you, does it ever decrease, or do you reckon that lonely people have to understand everyone else, or themselves or whatever?

 

That's a great question! I am not sure if it is ever possible for one human being to truly understand another. Each of us can perhaps learn to understand ourselves, if we really want to. But that's a lifelong journey.

 

I do draw some comfort from the lives of historical figures who seemed to experience the sort of total isolation I feel myself. In their different ways, the likes of James Joyce, Franz Schubert and Francis of Assisi were all terribly misunderstood or neglected during their lives. Yet each one had a vision that helped him overcome the difficulties life threw at him.

 

The way I see it, I have one life to live and I won't let AS grind me down. I see it as like any other disability. You just have to learn to compensate in some way.

 

Sorry if that sounds a bit preachy.

[darkshine]

That's a great question! I am not sure if it is ever possible for one human being to truly understand another. Each of us can perhaps learn to understand ourselves, if we really want to. But that's a lifelong journey.

 

I do draw some comfort from the lives of historical figures who seemed to experience the sort of total isolation I feel myself. In their different ways, the likes of James Joyce, Franz Schubert and Francis of Assisi were all terribly misunderstood or neglected during their lives. Yet each one had a vision that helped him overcome the difficulties life threw at him.

 

The way I see it, I have one life to live and I won't let AS grind me down. I see it as like any other disability. You just have to learn to compensate in some way.

 

Sorry if that sounds a bit preachy.

I'm encountering a lot of people who know way more about history/historical figures than me these days

Although I have at least heard of the people you mention here - just don't know anything else.

 

Your right about one life - and its exactly what I'm trying to tell myself - sometimes on an hourly basis!

 

I think the best thing about having "something wrong" with you is this: It forces you to look in ways that you wouldn't have looked otherwise - it gives you greater insight from searching and also gives an extra dimension of doing things in different ways to achieve the same goals as other people, it can be enlightening (as such) and actually gives you the chance to see how life is for others who struggle too.

 

A lot of people I have met and known over the years can be very ignorant to disabilities and differences, and circumstances in my own life have opened my eyes a lot more than theirs.

 

Oh, and doesn't sound preachy at all - but even if it did - your entitled to your opinions

[philtfa]

I used to wonder what on earth I was doing to put people off. I would check if I had bad breath or if my flies were undone. I became super-polite and developed a kind of avuncular personality that I could sustain for a few hours. Many years ago I received one piece of feedback from a colleague, delivered in a nasty way, that I was somehow insincere. That made me realise that other people can see if you are not being yourself and withdraw.

 

I think the real key to loneliness is the feeling that no one really understands you. You could be surrounded by people and still feel alone in that way. I think that is because we see the world differently to most others. At least that is my experience.

 

I hope things get better for you.

Looking back I can see that I was super impolite! But not on purpose, I just didn't know how to communicate with people. I didn't make eye contact and struggled to find words whilst often not understanding what people were saying or why they said it. Small talk I just didn't get at all. How are you people would say and I would tell them, everything, but then couldn't understand why they didn't seem to want to know. I have learnt to say 'I'm well" even when I'm usually not. That's the thing to say apparently.

 

Yes, being in a crowd and feeling lonely is the worst. I started to avoid crowds and not go out. It seemed easier but although it was more comfortable the loneliness started to grow. I have made more effort in recent years to adapt and 'fit-in' with some minor success but I still don't really feel part of it and, yes, I think you are right in that people sense you are not quite 'normal'

 

I know that darkshine is struggling at the moment and I too seem to be going through one of my more difficult phrases. Again, as you've said, not being understood by others or even understanding yourself makes life hard. However, there is some small comfort here on this forum reading words written by other people that somehow make a connection. Just as some NTs share a common understanding of each other so do some of us Aspies. I'm not so sure that NTs understand what it really is to be Aspie though. And vice versa!

[littleplum]

 

I know that darkshine is struggling at the moment and I too seem to be going through one of my more difficult phrases. Again, as you've said, not being understood by others or even understanding yourself makes life hard. However, there is some small comfort here on this forum reading words written by other people that somehow make a connection. Just as some NTs share a common understanding of each other so do some of us Aspies. I'm not so sure that NTs understand what it really is to be Aspie though. And vice versa!

 

I agree about the forum. I always knew there must be people like me out there but I never seemed to meet any. Now, I feel such relief to actually be in contact with people like yourself and darkshine and not feel I have to maintain a 'front' of being normal. That's the big drawback with AS - it's invisible, so people expect you to be the same as them.

 

I loved your story about being asked how you were. When I take what people say at face value, they think I am just being a p***k. This used to make me feel guilty and I wondered why I could not read between the lines. Now I regard 'How are you?' as like Hello or Hi.

 

As Margaret Thatcher said once, "It's a funny old world."

[littleplum]

I'm encountering a lot of people who know way more about history/historical figures than me these days

Although I have at least heard of the people you mention here - just don't know anything else.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to name-drop. I'm studying history in college and it has always been a bit of a passion.

 

I find it easier to read about dead people than to meet live ones!

[darkshine]

Looking back I can see that I was super impolite! But not on purpose, I just didn't know how to communicate with people. I didn't make eye contact and struggled to find words whilst often not understanding what people were saying or why they said it. Small talk I just didn't get at all. How are you people would say and I would tell them, everything, but then couldn't understand why they didn't seem to want to know. I have learnt to say 'I'm well" even when I'm usually not. That's the thing to say apparently.

 

Yes, being in a crowd and feeling lonely is the worst. I started to avoid crowds and not go out. It seemed easier but although it was more comfortable the loneliness started to grow. I have made more effort in recent years to adapt and 'fit-in' with some minor success but I still don't really feel part of it and, yes, I think you are right in that people sense you are not quite 'normal'

 

I know that darkshine is struggling at the moment and I too seem to be going through one of my more difficult phrases. Again, as you've said, not being understood by others or even understanding yourself makes life hard. However, there is some small comfort here on this forum reading words written by other people that somehow make a connection. Just as some NTs share a common understanding of each other so do some of us Aspies. I'm not so sure that NTs understand what it really is to be Aspie though. And vice versa!

 

 

I agree about the forum. I always knew there must be people like me out there but I never seemed to meet any. Now, I feel such relief to actually be in contact with people like yourself and darkshine and not feel I have to maintain a 'front' of being normal. That's the big drawback with AS - it's invisible, so people expect you to be the same as them.

 

I loved your story about being asked how you were. When I take what people say at face value, they think I am just being a p***k. This used to make me feel guilty and I wondered why I could not read between the lines. Now I regard 'How are you?' as like Hello or Hi.

 

As Margaret Thatcher said once, "It's a funny old world."

 

Since your both talkin about me I figured I'm allowed to jump in

 

I agree with what you are both saying. The people asking how are you thing is a nightmare - where I live they use the word "alright" to say hello, but they say it in a questioning tone, it took me years to stop saying how I was and just say "alright" back - even now though I still say "yeah, and you?" half the time. And when people do ask if I am alright I too have learnt that it is best to say "fine thanks how are you?" even though I don't care and I know they don't really care either. My other technique is evasion - they ask and I just send it right back without answering and most people don't notice/bother asking again.

 

My absolute favourite phrase to the question is this - "not so bad and yourself?" cuz it removes a fair bit of the lying about being fine when I'm not

 

Philtfa - I avoid crowds and barely go out and its scary that the feeling of "not fitting in" doesn't go away isn't it?

 

Littleplum - I totally agree with your comment about AS being invisible (as such cuz people can see behaviour and all that) and it does make it harder for people to understand (in my experience) and its very difficult trying to be the same as something that you don't fully understand innit?

 

Anyway, that's all I have to say

[darkshine]

Sorry, didn't mean to name-drop. I'm studying history in college and it has always been a bit of a passion.

 

I find it easier to read about dead people than to meet live ones!

Its fine It's up to me to learn if I wanna know more - name drop all you want as far as I'm concerned x

[philtfa]

Surely even Margaret Thatcher can't take credit for saying that?!

 

But let's not go there otherwise the Forum police will be along to remind us that it's an ASD forum.

 

Conversation, what a minefield eh? Apart from the 'How are you?' ritual there's also the joke ritual whereby, let's say, a work colleague will make what they consider a jokey lighthearted remark and expect a suitably similar reply. Unfortunately I usually struggle to work out whether they are being serious or not, what the hell they are on about and am then unable to supply the requisite reply. Which makes me look awkward and stupid and colleague makes a mental note to avoid me in the future. Actually, I used to be really bad at this but as I've got older have learned how to cope a bit more. Still not any fun for me though.

[Kathryn]

Welcome to the forum Littleplum,

 

 

And just to clarify, it's OK to discuss other issues besides ASD on this forum.

 

K x

[darkshine]

I find it easier to read about dead people than to meet live ones!

Sorry just had to comment on this

I'm the other way round, I find it so hard meeting and understanding the live ones that I don't have any mental time or energy left for the ones who are dead but that also applies to the people I haven't met - its hard to find interest sometimes... I have to do both though cuz of my courses and cuz people talk about people I do find it interesting but I'm better off getting info from someone else as a recap than actually reading about it all myself

[darkshine]

Surely even Margaret Thatcher can't take credit for saying that?!

 

But let's not go there otherwise the Forum police will be along to remind us that it's an ASD forum.

Hmmm Thatcher eh? Not a huge fan myself but have to admit that from the little I know there were good points somewhere

 

The "forum police" were pretty quick to say you can do things see? In fact probably a quicker response than when they come on to say we can't

Welcome to the forum Littleplum,

 

 

And just to clarify, it's OK to discuss other issues besides ASD on this forum.

 

K x

Sorry

 

 

 

Conversation, what a minefield eh? Apart from the 'How are you?' ritual there's also the joke ritual whereby, let's say, a work colleague will make what they consider a jokey lighthearted remark and expect a suitably similar reply. Unfortunately I usually struggle to work out whether they are being serious or not, what the hell they are on about and am then unable to supply the requisite reply. Which makes me look awkward and stupid and colleague makes a mental note to avoid me in the future. Actually, I used to be really bad at this but as I've got older have learned how to cope a bit more. Still not any fun for me though.

I just laugh, say something lame (like yeah, or good one) or I fail completely and say something completely irrelevant and get the same response as you - where they seem to avoid me - not much fun (as you say) - although I don't work so don't have the stress of having to see them every day (sometimes time can reduce such blunders)

[littleplum]

Welcome to the forum Littleplum,

 

 

And just to clarify, it's OK to discuss other issues besides ASD on this forum.

 

K x

 

Thanks Kathryn. Is it fun being a moderator?

[littleplum]

Conversation, what a minefield eh? Apart from the 'How are you?' ritual there's also the joke ritual whereby, let's say, a work colleague will make what they consider a jokey lighthearted remark and expect a suitably similar reply. Unfortunately I usually struggle to work out whether they are being serious or not, what the hell they are on about and am then unable to supply the requisite reply. Which makes me look awkward and stupid and colleague makes a mental note to avoid me in the future. Actually, I used to be really bad at this but as I've got older have learned how to cope a bit more. Still not any fun for me though.

 

If conversation is a minefield, then the kind of 'banter' you describe is like a piranha tank. It is not too bad if you know the other person and their sense of humour. When a total stranger makes some apparently jokey remark without any warning, I just freeze. This sometimes happen in the gym I go to. Ugh! What can you do except smile and edge slowly towards the door?

[littleplum]

Sorry just had to comment on this

I'm the other way round, I find it so hard meeting and understanding the live ones that I don't have any mental time or energy left for the ones who are dead but that also applies to the people I haven't met - its hard to find interest sometimes... I have to do both though cuz of my courses and cuz people talk about people I do find it interesting but I'm better off getting info from someone else as a recap than actually reading about it all myself

 

I think I know what you mean. I find reading brings me into a different world and stimulates my mind in a good way. On the other hand if I meet a lot of new people in a short space of time I need a day off to recover.

[darkshine]

I think I know what you mean. I find reading brings me into a different world and stimulates my mind in a good way. On the other hand if I meet a lot of new people in a short space of time I need a day off to recover.

And that's just scratching the surface of things that are difficult / a nightmare