What should I do re: violence at school?

[KezT]

DS was sent home from school gain today following several incidents, including a fairly nasty attack on another pupil. the school has not made an issue of it, but TBH, I'm expecting a call from the police tonight - I would call the police if my daughter came home from school saying someone had kicked her to the ground and left a massive bruise across her back:(

 

He actually only managed 10 mins with his class today - he was given time to calm down, then after the attack, he was put into the internal inclusion unit (which he usually likes), where he was still too disruptive for them to deal with, and they called me to collect him.

 

I know this is an illegal exclusion, but I am currently keeping a diary of all times they are "unable to cope" as I will be applying for an independent placement and so I'm not going to argue the exclusion with them at this point as it all adds up in our favour......

 

The advice I would like is on how I should react to the violence? We have ALWAYS had the rule that the moment he becomes violent, whatever the provocation, he is the one in the wrong and will be punished. He knows this rule, and he admits that he kicked the girl. He accepts that if the same had happened to him, I would expect severe punishment for the perpetrator, and police action.....

 

Should I punish him at home for what happened at school? Normally we try to have a line between the two, but on previous occasions of physical violence we have punished him at home as well, to enforce how serious it is. But he is so unhappy today already, and obviously right on the edge mentally (which is why he reacted so badly, so quickly - he usually shouts a lot first!). The only punishment that he notices is to remove TV/computer - but he needs that to calm down..........

 

Thanks for any advice

[LancsLad]

Kez I think you are very right never to condone violence no matter what the circumstances.

 

I had similar experiences at school and did a lot more damage to other pupils than your son has done to this girl. I think in an ideal world the school should punish DS in an appropriate way for what he has done. My gut reaction as former teacher is it was on their watch and in effect they were in loco parenthis and should have done something at the time. I would in your position contact the school to see if they are going to do anything more than what they have becaue double punshments would I feel be confusing to DS in many ways. If they are not then I do not think it is in his best long term interests not to be punished.

 

I think in trying to understand what to do I would say take all the lessons from what we have in society. It is not the polices role for example to punish on the spot rather to stabilise the situation. In a similar way I would make sure that he is in a stable position and that might take a few days to happen. I would then in effect present him with the evidence as you see it both from yourself and the school. I would include any previous examples if this has happened before and point out if appropriate that this is a repeated behaviour pattern. I then think it is important for DS to put forward his reasons as to why this incident happened and why he felt this was the end result and ask him to express how he feels about it in hindsight. At the end of the proccess you will obviously have to decide on an appropriate punishment, this is how real life works at the end of the day.

 

I know we used this sort of strategy effectively with some difficult kids when along with my partner we were involved in foster care, which in some ways is harder because we were not actual parents and often they were on the scene. At the end of the day the result you are after is for your son to reflect on his actions, this might involve asking him to write a letter of appology to the girl, but I would hope this sort of thing might come from him, but that would be a major level of understanding on his part. If at the end of this process he can come close to believing what you have done is fair then you have done a pretty good job in a difficult position.

 

Hope this helps a little.

[oxgirl]

Personally, I would also punish him at home but without anger. I would, in a very calm and straightforward way, explain how disappointed I am in the behavioiur and that I cannot ignore it. I would remove his computer for a period of time of my chosing because I would want to reinforce, like you say, that the behaviour is unacceptable. Letting him have the computer/TV just to keep him calm would not be the way that I would go, but that's just my personal opinion.

 

~ Mel ~

[LancsLad]

Mel I can see your point of view. I think one of the recurent issues I have seen on the forum is that so often objects of desire play a very important role in kids with AS as a key component in a coping mechanism.

 

As an adult with AS my computer is so important in my life. Recently my main machine crashed in a big way and after a couple of days my partner felt there was no option but to go out and buy another machine for around £1200. I then spent a week having to get this up and running with key programmes which play a very important role in my life. This for me was a very dangerous period in respect to my mental health.

It then took around another two or three days for things to settle down so I could get back into my daily routines. The whole period made me reflect deeply on what role my computer plays in my life and in some respect I could view it as a life support machine in many ways.

 

Like a lot of AS kids out there if you wanted to punish me taking away my computer would be really hard to take and would make me think, but is this appropriate? The issue is besides my bikes which play an important role in supporting my health there is very little in my life which has the same importance, TV take it or leave it, I can go for weeks without spending any money so dont really need it. I don't have treats like sweets or chocholate in my life. So where do you go from there?

 

If I had to come up with a solution which might work for me it would be this. I would force myself into differentiating between what I felt was essential on my computer the elements I routinely do that provide structure and what is for pleasure. I would then pasword protect the pleasure elements and let someone else have the right to control access to these. I could see this as a good compromise, far better than physically removing it potentially running the risk of damage.

 

In the case of a playstation or similar game console I would be tempted to go out and buy an old previous generation machine with a couple of older games of a similar genre to what the child usually plays with. I would then take the new version off them as punishment swopping it for a machine which does not have the same appeal but can provide routine if this importantly includes thrashing a hand held controller for an hour as a means of releasing the stresses generated from a hard day at school as an example. Personally I would find this frustrating and hardly cool but as a strategy it does recognise the importance of the activity as a coping strategy for the individual.

 

Just a few ideas from an AS perspective.

[justine1]

I agree with Mel. On the occassions when Sam was excluded for similar behaviour I would remove things he likes,he still had his comfort things(teddies) but no telly and no computer. It was effective. I would do this for two days,this was the length of his exclusion. He would also have work to do and write a letter of apology. I would suggest the same for your son as it is a form of reflection to.

 

I would really really urge you to get what happened in writting,especially if he is now excluded (?) I found this helped so much with Sam's statementing. It is not nice to have to deal with but does prove he is not in the right environment.

[Sally44]

Can you get an urgent appointment with CAHMS or clinical Psychology. You maybe at the point where he should not be forced into school because he is not coping and his behaviour is a result of that. He may also feel very bad about himself, having done this, so I would also advise that you keep an eye on him, and also try to talk it over with him tomorrow when he is calmer.

 

Do you have any idea what caused it?

 

Will he have to stay at home tomorrow? If so, I would say a suitable punishment maybe to say that he cannot watch TV or go on his computer [but at the same time he needs to be able to do something - so think what that might be].

 

I think we do have to be consistent. And I know my own son always expects some punishment. And there have been occasions where he has thought I have not punished him enough and he has self harmed to punish himself more.

 

When my son was at home he was not allowed to watch TV during school hours. But he was allowed to put on a DVD. I know that sounds the same, but it wasn't because he wasn't allowed the immediate access to the childrens' TV that he liked. He had to wait until after 3.00pm. But because TV is a major thing for him, it would not have worked to have stopped him watching films on DVD.

 

Only you can make the call. You know how fragile he is. From my experience I know that my own son might have attempted to hurt himself, or leave the house. And unlike other kids, you don't get the warning signs such as things they say, or how they act. It is all hidden inside, and you have no clue what is going on in their heads.

 

But I think you need an urgent appointment with CAHMS/Clinical Psychology. And an urgent meeting in school. See what school do and if they contact you. If they don't, contact them, and put it in writing, and make it clear that you instigated the contact.

 

Obviously this cannot continue, but don't tell them what you want. Leave them to decide what to do - or not to do.

 

They should be arranging a multi-disciplinary team meeting. But don't tell them that. Let them do what they are going to do. And keep batting the ball back into their court eg. asking school What do YOU think the problems/needs are, what are YOU doing to meet those needs, what additional or extra support are YOU going to provide, what do YOU think is the way forward etc.

 

Sorry to hear it was a bad day. And it sounds like this is out of character for your son generally.

 

Have you had a talk with your son about whether he genuinely cannot take school any more. I remember having that conversation with my son, and a couple of days later he came to me in tears, very upset, and apologised and said could he please stay at home because he could not take it anymore. And I could see that it was genuine. He was in such a state anyway with constant coughing and other nervous tics.

 

SO you really need in writing from CAHMS and/or Clinical Psychology exactly HOW much force [verbal or physical] you use to get him to school. So tell them exactly how bad things are. I told them that I was having to forcefully dress him, spoon feed him, and man handle him out of the door. Then he frequently vomitted on arrival and I had to go and collect him. They put in writing that I was ONLY to use gentle encouragement, and if that did not work he should not be pressed further to comply.

 

Now he is at his new school, I can see myself that I only have to use gentle encouragement [and often not even that], and he is willing and happy to go into school - which is how it should be.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Sally44

[oxgirl]

LancsLad, I'm sure the computer is very important to him. But, there would be little point in taking away something that was not important to him as a punishment, would there. If the computer was that important to him then maybe he would think twice about kicking somebody next time in order to prevent it being taken away again. If ya can't do the time, don't do the crime, as far as I'm concerned. Also, if the person being punished is allowed to actively choose what he is willing to give up as a punishment, then I see very little value in bothering at all.

 

~ Mel ~

[trekster]

If you ask him why does he hurt people what does he normally say? What is the cause of the violence? Can this be removed to stop setting him off?

 

I told 1 girl at school that she could beat me up if she wanted because I felt so bad about running after her and causing an asthma attack.

 

She took this literally and beat me up 5 times, the last time she trapped me in a classroom and I panicked as I couldn't get out. I gave her what I thought was a slight shove and ended up pushing her accidentally into a filling cabinet (I didn't realise my own strength at the time) and we started fighting. I froze just as a teacher was going around the corner she got into trouble for beating me up when we were fighting. She never touched me again.

 

The moral of this story is this girl knew how to push my buttons and stood in the way as I attempted to get to class. She knew what upset and annoyed me so teased me for 3 years before I could finally stand up to her. I'm not proud of what I did and generally I'm a peaceful person, however in extreme circumstances those on the spectrum are triggered off and some it happens quicker than others.

 

'Asperger syndrome and difficult moments', 'communication issues and ASD' and a book about anger and teenagers written by Andrew Powell are ones I would recommend.

 

Also books that mention 'the Asperger lens' it has an example of a kid refusing to do PE and taking a screwdriver into school to get the bullies, turns out he was being teased by other students. Once they managed to stop the teasing he was able to leave his screwdriver at home.

 

Good luck with getting your child a more supportive environment.

[LancsLad]

Mel I really do not think you understand the point I am making here and that is about the role ritual behaviours play in helping stabilise emotional stresses in the daily lives of people with AS.

 

When I lost my computer as a mature rational and intelligent adult my world recently literally fell apart. The incident caused me stress but it was very difficult for me to deal with the anxiety levels. I could not for example play 50 hands of Solitatre, listen to the sounds and rhythms of the cards turning over, arrange the piles in the ritualistic way I always do diamonds,spades,hearts,clubs. Once I have got warmed up to then start to slowly build up my playing pace so that I synchronise my physical aspects like my breathing and heart rate into the game experience. The game is not aalways about winning but that introduces a reward ritual to go through to end in new sound and visual experiences.

 

My computers have some amazing things on them in respect to industry standard software which lets me create amazing 2D and 3D images, I have media software to edit sound and video, there are all sorts of things attatched to my machines such as graphics tablets, sound systems, multiple printers etc.. When it comes to games I can go online and play very complex fantasy games alongside 40 other people from around the world, my current favorite games are Anno 2070 a complex city building game based on environmental issues and F1 2011 which I use an expensive sterring wheel and foot pedals to control a racing car around replicas of the worlds F1 circuits. I have all this stuff yet why is it I can still play for hundreds of hours a year on something so basic, so unrewarding as Solitare a freebie on the Microsoft operating system?

 

The point I was making was this. I think it is right to take away my fantasy game, my F1 for example as these are for pleasure. To swing the argument to the other end of the scale would you take away my professional software which would mean I was unable to work, thats like grounding a 17 year old kid for two days and they are unable to go into work potentially leading to a loss of employment, I don't think you would. Now we get into difficult territory. Would you stop me playing for example Anno 2070. This is a very complex game which is based on intelligent reasoning and is a very good learning tool for someone with my environmental interests. This would for me be like taking away books and not allowing me to be able to read for a few days. Its like having a flat ban on the TV and as such being unaware because you can not watch the news of what is happening in the world is that a good idea. I know I hardly ever watch TV for pleasure so what is its role in my life and should that be limited. The very hard one is should you take away my Solitaire. For me in many ways this is like taking away an inhaller from a severe asmatic for punishment and might lead to a similar reaction. Yes I have strategies of finger exercises and visualisations to go through when daily pressures rise and cause anxiety but in many ways these are very good holding exercises to control things they are not the real deal the release mechanism which is my computer when I get home.

 

The point I was simply trying to raise is that for some individuals such as myself a computer or playstation plays a far more significant and important role in their lives than it would do for the average individual. KezT alluded to this fact in her post and with little else in an individuals life what do you do its a double edged sword situation. The point I am trying to make in offering potential solutions is to not see the computer as an object, a singular entity with only one function, it is so much more complicated than that for many people. I know what I have described in my own life is a complex computer system by anyones standards but a lot of these elements will be present on a teenagers lap top if I asked them to explain their individual content to me. I would also expect them to have an equivalent bit of solitare type function in there. It might be driving a car constantly around mario cart, playing a level of a platform game something but I would bet any money all the rythms, sounds, visual patternation of sequences, ritual will be there in some form offering what is half of a symbiotic relationship between the game and a human being. The role of that symbiotic relationship is in managing very real anxieties and emotional feelings which often lead to us loosing control and becoming very self destructive. I find this hard to explain and it is possibly a lot harder to understand when you do not experience this yourself but taking away this very important and practical relationship even for a day or two I feel is very counterproductive. What I was simply suggesting were ideas to isolate this important function and be able to seperate it from other aspects such as pleasure systems when it comes to deciding upon punishment. I think this is a respectfull, insightfull, and importantly compassionate response as a parent without having to back down from what has happened in the lead up to the event.

 

Just a few thought for clarity, I respect that others might not agree with what I say but feel it may be worthwhile to express a view from an AS perspective and how this would simply relate to me, many teenagers might feel this way but not be able to explain their feelings too well, does not mean they are not there.

 

Best wishes.

[darkshine]

I think writing a letter of apology would be an effective punishment - it makes you think about what to say and why you did something wrong. Therefore adds value.