Feeling deflated today

[Aspiemumto1]

Feeling a bit deflated today. We have had a good week in our house but this morning my daughter told me she was self harming (cutting) last night. Nothing anyone can do I know but just wanted to share.

 

Still getting used to the ups and downs and the downs coming for no logical reason.

[robert7111a]

Hi Aspiemumpto1

 

Sorry to hear about your daughter. Is she a teen? Clearly she has issues which you need to talk about. Are you and your daughter close?

 

robert7111a

[LancsLad]

Just want to say a few things on self harm based on my own experience.

 

I think self harm is one of those areas which shocks a lot of people and they find difficult to understand and relate to people who participate in this behaviour. As with any behaviour I believe there are underlying reasons which need to be looked at which are far more important than the self harm act which I personally consider to be relatively unimportant. These cuts will heal over pretty quickly.

 

I self harm in a number of ways and have done so from about the age of 7 through to 46 where I am up to now in my life. My self harm is all about control and making connections with myself, in many ways it is about trying to feel alive more often than not, a reaction against a hollow empty and depressed state of mind. In this respect it is often a pleasurable act. When I try to draw blood as a menas of self harm I tend to focus on my legs as these are easier to cover up. I tend to gouge holes in myself using my fingers because it is more intimate, I can see however that some prefare a sharp blade or razor as it is cleaner and easier. The sensations will be the same one of initial short pain which is often a wake up sign. There is then a moment of real anticipationn as the blood comes to the surface. What then happens for me is a sense of control, the blodd will start to flow and I will move my legs so that it creates a running line down my leg and if it is a good experience it might get as far as flowing down to and between my toes another personal area where I self harm. I will then repeat the exercise trying to create parallel lines of congealed blood. There comes a point for me where the exercise kind of peters out after anything from 10 minutes to an hour. Very often what I am left with is a mess but peace of mind for a short time which used to be followed by guilt.

 

Self harming can be a very intensive emotional experience and as such it can feel like an oasis in a dessert of depression at times, a place which is worth returning to for emotional sustenance.

 

What I will say to people who do not self harm is please do not try to judge us on this behaviour. Often we do it because we are far too judgemental on ourselves. We do not need extra guilt thrown into the equation, rather in my experience we are better served in trying to get rid of our own guilt, accept the behaviour for what it is and what it stands for and look for better strategies in dealing with our low emotional states of mind.

 

In you daughters case Aspiemumto1 I would be open minded and try to ascertain if this is the first time she has self harmed in this way. There might also be other forms of self harm behaviour present which serve the same purpose such as early signs of eating disorders. If these are early stages it might be a cry for help sort of appeal and see it as such. If it is ingrained behaviour it might well be serving a very good purpose, for me it is a buffer response to stop me falling deeper into depression and eventually a suicidal state. In my case you might want to think of it as a lesser of two evils, I would not go that far but am happy for others to do so if it helps them understand a bit more. It is not fair I believe to try and remove this behaviour untill there is something else to take its place otherwise your daughter will be left feeling very vulnerable.

 

I hope this makes sense. Self harm is a difficult topic for many but I feel it is a relatively simple behaviour to understand if you try and engage with it from a similar perspective as the individual going through these acts. The more open we are about it the easier it becomes for people to understand. Trying to hide these issues does no one any favours whatsoever in my opinion.

 

Best wishes.

[sesley]

is it because self harm means to try to understand the experience of pain? or feel no pain at all? besides being a emotional by product of maybe feeling low self esteem? lack of self confidence? just asking to try to understand why such distructive behaviour can be of some sort of comfort.

[oxgirl]

This must be very worrying for you, obviously, but it is a very good sign that your daughter has shared this with you. It means that you can now talk about the issue and that it won't be a secret that she has to keep from you and that, hopefully, she'll be able to get the help that she needs. It could be that just talking to you about it will be enough and it is a tribute to you that she feels able to come to you about this.

 

~ Mel ~

[Aspiemumto1]

Thanks for all your comments. Its not the first time, its been going on for 2-3 years now, but we are now much more open about it and we do talk about it, although she doesnt know why she does it or what triggers it. It doesnt make if any easier for me to understand but I would certainly never judge anyone for doing it. I think it just upsets me that she is at a point in her life where things have got so bad that she has to do it for whatever the reason is, and there is nothing I can do about it.

 

I am very fortunate that we are close and that we do not hide things. It took her a long time to tell me what she was doing and I guess that is where our journey at CAMHS began. I hope I never make her feel bad about it, its certainly not my intention. She is 16 and has been doing this since she was 13/14. Just wish I knew why so I could make things better for her.

[LancsLad]

Sesley good question.

 

For me this is very much about feeling pain initially. Cutting through nerve fibres hurts. I am at times so depressed that I litteraly feel nothing, not even strong negative emotions such as anger and frustration. They tend to turn to being exhasperated, then just empty and hollow. I think the point here is that you can bypass this lack of emotion and creat a physical trigger which tends to work and that is pain. For me its about just 'feeling', it doesn't matter what I 'feel' rather i want to feel something.

 

The problem is as everyone knows this sort of pain only lasts for a short time and even less so if you are severly depressed. I know I have gone through a self harm act looked at what I have done and thought that should have hurt but it didn't. When it comes to something like cutting as in this post, these paper like cuts are often very shallow and so the pain is very short lived. It is for this reason that you can get into repeat behaviour even over a few minutes the result being cut after cut.

 

Pain however is not the be all and end all to this in my personal experience. There are pain behaviours such as hair pulling, burning etc... which are only about pain. Other behaviours such as cutting offer an element of control and release. I know when I see blood flowing it feels as if there is a massive amount of release taking place, it is a strong psychological element in the behaviour. By then introducing control over this act we can introduce another element into the experience which is often about regaining a feeling of simply being human.

 

I have been on specialist forums and through talking with young people on there and sharing experiences I have understood that often this level of control manifests itself in what I would describe as rituals. At this level individuals very much plan their self harm behaviour. They have the tools of their trade and will lay them out in a very specific manner. I have talked to individuals who have described pre deciding how many cuts they feel they are going to make and self negotiating the ritual in this way. After every cut going through a clean up process before moving on to the next one in a sequence. Some have even explained how they pre plan sessions on various sections of their body such as a farmer will use crop rotation to let his fields recover. For me this is all about massive levels of control.

 

Aspiemumto1 what I would say is that it often takes time for us to understand why we do these things. If we are open about it and I am very please you are we should explore possible reasons as to why we are doing these acts. I think the starting point should be about realising what emotions we are going through at the time because that is central to gaining an understanding. If wanted to deface our body in a ritualistic way we would get a tatto as that is far more socially acceptable, so it is not really about collecting scars in most cases. For teenagers it is not always easy to try and understand our emotions.

 

The last point I have to make is this. I came to a point in my life when I felt the urge to self harm and I made the decision that it was ok to do so but I must try an learn a bit more about myself and my motives in the process. I say this because I feel that if we try to stop doing this full stop it will always be a part of us locked in that we can never understand. If however we work through it and that is about engaging at appropriate times in this behaviour we have a chance of making some progress. I know this is a hard concept for many to take on board but it is a personal one and has been key in my life.

 

Just a few more thoughts.

[A-S warrior]

self harming can be a type of seizure. i used to punch myself or stick pins into my skin as a child and i wasnt even consciously aware of it.

[darkshine]

is it because self harm means to try to understand the experience of pain? or feel no pain at all? besides being a emotional by product of maybe feeling low self esteem? lack of self confidence? just asking to try to understand why such distructive behaviour can be of some sort of comfort.

 

I also think that this is a good question especially since the subject may not always make the greatest degree of sense.

 

I haven't self harmed for years but did so regularly from 15 or 16 to about 26 (have to do approx guesses as I didn't bother to record the end of it).

 

 

is it because self harm means to try to understand the experience of pain? or to feel no pain at all?

 

I'd say no in that its more a case that there's too much other pain (emotional or psychological) and it needs an outlet.

 

The experience of physical pain can do a lot of things, for some it gives them control, or it makes them feel real, or its a punishment, or its a rush like taking a drug. And yes it can also stop pain but in my experience it wasn't physical pain that I was trying to stop...

 

 

besides being a emotional by product of maybe feeling low self esteem? lack of self confidence? just asking to try to understand why such distructive behaviour can be of some sort of comfort.

 

For me it was a by-product of those things but also of anger, desolation, being ignored, feeling wrong and inadequate, feeling unwanted, doing things incorrectly.

 

The first time I did it I'd been humiliated and tortured at school, I was literally beyond my limits of coping, I ran home thinking of all the bad things over and over and over, they got so loud that they screamed in my head and then everything I could ever think of that made me feel bad things all rushed in so that I just wanted to die. I unlocked the door, nobody was ever home, the kitchen was facing me and I saw the knife block, on impulse I picked up a paring knife and I stood holding it, shaking and with all that stuff going on in my head, I felt that I was a piece of sh** and I got so so angry, I cut the back of my hand.

 

The first feeling was pure relief, pure quiet in my head, it was so relieving.

 

Then a few seconds later came the fear - what if someone saw what I'd done?!? Then I felt guilty and ashamed and wrong.

 

I lied about it to the school nurse when I returned to school but it wouldn't stop bleeding so they took me to the hospital - I don't lie well so I don't know if they believed me or not - nothing else happened so I thought I'd got away with it.

 

I didn't harm myself again for a few weeks...but I'd get in and I'd pick up that knife, I had a bond with it cuz it was the one that shared the secret, I used to hold it and think of cutting myself, of slicing my wrists, but I didn't, and then I got to the point again where I couldn't handle things that were happening to and around me and in my head, so I starting cutting my arm, I started doing it most days, I bought bandages to heal it and started using the other arm to give each arm a brake.

 

At the worst point I had 20 cuts on my right arm and double that on my left. They were barely more than surface wounds cuz I'd seen what deep ones looked like on my brother and I didn't want arms like that - but it has taken many years for the scars to almost fade - and even now if I'm in the wrong light they stand out more than other times. I have a red mottling effect in one small patch on one arm from the skin not being allowed to heal. Yes, very very destructive behaviour..

 

That knife was my enemy - it stood for all the judgement, all the badness of me and of the world and friends and family - it stood for the thing that punished me - but punishment in my control - not theirs - that was very important!

 

But that knife was also my friend, it understood through the simple nature of pain and by contrast the physically pain was non existent compared to the emotional and psychological pain I went through.

 

And on another level it was almost sensual, almost - cuz I'd get an adrenaline rush beforehand, I'd steel myself for that cut that would make everything suddenly better, for the release, for the rush, and it felt good in so many ways.

 

The after effects are weird though - I still shudder sometimes when I pick up a good knife and the feeling flows all the way down through my feet - its like a primal relationship - like when you listen to people talk about getting in touch with the earth and connecting with something on a deeper almost spiritual level that doesn't really have words - but primal is the best word - its something like an urge that uses a completely different set of instincts, something that is dormant in most people but in some gets kicked alive.

 

This is how I'd explain it - but I don't know if it makes sense and I don't know if other self-harmers would agree. This is also me being very restrained in my telling, I have tried to stick with an informative version rather than something completely incomprehensible so I hope it makes sense and helps people understand.

Edited May 10, 2012 by darkshine

[LancsLad]

Great post Darkshine. This make a lot of sense, as a self-harmer would I agree the answer is no to a lot of it and that is because this is such a broad issues and one in which we are all right when we can understand our behaviour on our own individual terms.

 

Personally the more information that is out there the more we can use it to reflect on our own feelings and experiences. Some of it will ring true, as some of this does with me, and other aspects might not. Personally I only self harm from a very empty place, if my head is full of painfull thoughts I do not feel I have to add to that, we are different in that respect. The important thing is we share our thoughts which I feel helps to create a doorway through which others can access our own realities or those of a son or daughter.

 

A-S Warrior what do you mean when you say a type of seizure, really interesting? Do you think it was part of an emotional lock down process to protect yourself or am I speculating in a wrong direction?

 

All good stuff.

[darkshine]

Great post Darkshine. This make a lot of sense, as a self-harmer would I agree the answer is no to a lot of it and that is because this is such a broad issues and one in which we are all right when we can understand our behaviour on our own individual terms.

 

Personally the more information that is out there the more we can use it to reflect on our own feelings and experiences. Some of it will ring true, as some of this does with me, and other aspects might not. Personally I only self harm from a very empty place, if my head is full of painfull thoughts I do not feel I have to add to that, we are different in that respect. The important thing is we share our thoughts which I feel helps to create a doorway through which others can access our own realities or those of a son or daughter.

 

Your totally right every description adds and explains a little - I've mainly used my description of when I was in my teens, and I've only added a small part of what it felt like as an adult - I've purposely blurred the border line between the two to not only explain the younger thoughts, but also to take into account that those thoughts change when a person matures.

 

If I was to go an self harm right now it would be a completely different experience.

 

The worst part of my story is that I had 2 friends before I left home - and they both copied me and started self harming. I spoke to one of them earlier this year and they disclosed that they still did it and I felt guilty. For this person it held some kind of spiritual meaning that I understood when it was described to me but couldn't possibly explain it to other people. But again - it highlights how the experience has similarities and differences for each person.

 

The really sad thing is I still miss self-harming - and I believe this is a bond in my life to it or I wouldn't be able to access the thoughts, feelings or memories that are related to it. And like I said, as an adult there can be so much more than what I described and as such I'm gonna stick with what I said near the end of my last post... Its almost primal in that way and words do not always do it justice, its like trying to pin a person down with descriptions of them, I can't ever describe someone in those terms of characteristics and do them justice. Self harming is like that - I can try to describe it but I lose the essence in translation.

 

Best

 

Darkshine

 

PS - I do hope that people can gain some insight though from my description - I do not really like talking about it as it makes me want to do it - but I gave part of myself to try to explain and as such I hope that people can understand. When I say people - I mean people who do not self harm and don't understand it. It wasn't easy to write what I wrote in my last post and I really held back with it (as you may know LancsLad) so anyway... hope it was worth it for the non harmers to get some insight.

[Aspiemumto1]

Darkshine and LancsLad I appreciate you talking about it, Im sorry if it upset you in anyway by talking about it. It really does help me to understand and I think by people sharing their experiences does help alot. Certainly my understanding of why my daughter does it is much better than it was when I first found out.

 

Sorry if I ask lots of questions on here. Im still learning, but I would never expect anyone to share anything they were uncomfortable with sharing.

 

It is very important to me to gain a full understanding so I can help my daughter the best way I can.

Thank you. x

[darkshine]

No need for all the apologies talking or not talking is my choice - you didn't upset me at all - the topic is something that is meaningful to me because a lot of self harmers I have met or been told about have a lot of similarities - the discussion shows that there are differences too - its good to understand that to help people.

 

I won't lie and say it was easy - the subject itself is a difficult one - but I weighed the costs versus the benefits and decided to share stuff as I feel it was something that people don't easily understand - the thing is that there is a whole under-level to what I've described, I've left this account out as it is more extreme than anything I said in the thread. I haven't left it out to be secretive, its just there are extremities to it that I feel are too hard to explain and certain things I don't want to relive in public. I am ok with everything I have said - it is enough I feel.

 

I hope it helps and please do not worry or be sorry

 

Oh and don't be sorry for asking questions either - if you don't ask you don't find out - I like questions

[Special_talent123]

We cant stop her, i have had experience it can help cope get rid of the pain - o know that from experience, but just let her know that to make sure whatever she using is clean, and make sure she clears her cuts up and make so no infection.