Bare With Me This Could Be A Long One!

[Pollyanna]

My first post and its straight in at the deep end!

A bit of background for you as Im new here might help so...........

I am a single mum to 3 children, 7 yo with asd (dx 2 years ago) 5 yo NT daughter and 3 1/2 yo son with asd traits (no dx as yet)

 

My poor daughter really is piggy in the middle bless her. At te moment we are struggling with my eldests aggression. I can see what most of the triggers are (mainly not getting what he wants/people not doing what he wants/things not working like they should and sometimes there just seems to be no trigger) My daughter knows her brothers ways but obviously if she doesnt want to play with him she shouldnt have to. This will result in him hitting/pinching/biting/scratching and most recently spitting at her. When I intervene I get the same abuse. No matter what I try he becomes fixated on attacking her. Its heart breaking to see her so scared of him. My youngest has also started to copy his brother now which makes handling the situation twice as hard esp being on my own. He wont go to his room to cool down etc it just fizzles out eventually and its like it never happened. But I find myself becomming a human shield whilst the red mist has decended. I've removed his favorite toys, treats, privilages and tried reward charts but he doesnt care. Ive sat and talked to im about it (not easy as he struggles with communication/understanding etc) used social stories, pec's and he just replies with "I like hitting" or "I want to spit"

What can I do?

The holidays are fast becomming unbareable as not one day goes by without one of these incidents (though they vary on severity)

Thanks

[Mike_GX101]

I was always having disagreements with my younger sister when I was younger (still do) but often back then she would attack me by biting and scratching me, and of course also hitting me when we fell out. But having lived through it and survived I can say that she grew out of it (thankfully) and our rivalry became more adult in nature. I think it's just a phase kids go through particularly when they're all competing for attention.

 

Do your children have a father? Can he have a bit more of a presence? I think you need a bit of extra grown-up support because it sounds as if you're starting to feel a bit out numbered? If not their father then could you get help from your friends? Help to role-model the correct behaviour and they'll be more likely to follow rather than resorting to arguments.

[Dijac]

Hi,

 

My boys are older now, AS 13, and Nt 10. I agree with Mike that they are competing for attention - my 10 y.o often says he hates that his brother has AS, as this does make things more difficult.

 

If you don't have another adult who could take one or 2 of them ,so you can have alone time with the 3rd one, then maybe there is a daycare, or club they could go to, just so you get one on one time with each of them on a regular basis. I do find that when mine have been separated a bit, they are better when they are together (for a little while anyway!!)

 

The only other thing I can say is try to praise and reward when your son does behave well - even if just for 30 mins while you do something with the younger ones - although I know this is easier said than done sometimes.

 

Good luck, Diane

[Sally44]

I think you need some professional help with this.

 

Your oldest has a diagnosis. I would go to your GP and ask for a referal to Clinical Psychology, to a department that has experience of working with children with an ASD. You need them to give you some techniques to use at home.

 

How are things going in school? Are they having similar difficulties there?

 

It is very important that your daughter feels protected. And as a single mum you are in a bind because you cannot keep an eye on three children if you've sent one out to go to their room, and you cannot lock them in their room, and if you go with the one that has misbehaved to ensure they stay in their room you cannot be watching the other two. So I would make that point with the GP also. And tell him that your daughter is becoming scared and withdrawn and you need professional advice.

 

The alternative maybe for your daughter to go to her room? Or do you have a sun lounge she could go into and your son would not be allowed to go into?

 

You need to be consistent, and you need to be fair with all your children, as I presume you are really trying to do.

 

I can't really recommend this, but when my son used to bite me, I once bit him back. Hard enough for it to hurt him. He didn't bite me again. But my son is much older now, and he does have some understanding of other people's feelings and that they may not want to do what he wants them to do. But it has taken years of teaching and working with the understanding he does have.

 

What about using some pictures of peoples faces, and telling a short story to you son which involves one of them hurting the other, and asking your son "what do you think the other person is feeling?" See what he answers. And also ask "if xx has hurt xx and made them cry, do you think xx wants to play with xx?" [try to use names rather than pronouns because children with an ASD can sometimes struggle to understand pronouns, so give the characters real names.]

 

Does your son have a Statement of special educational needs, and what type of school does he go to?

[Pollyanna]

Thanks for the replys

 

I think you need some professional help with this.

 

Your oldest has a diagnosis. I would go to your GP and ask for a referal to Clinical Psychology, to a department that has experience of working with children with an ASD. You need them to give you some techniques to use at home.

 

How are things going in school? Are they having similar difficulties there?

 

Towards the end of the last term his behaviour had taken a turn for the worse, annoyingly he will go to the "take a break" area at school but will not entertain the idea at home

 

It is very important that your daughter feels protected. And as a single mum you are in a bind because you cannot keep an eye on three children if you've sent one out to go to their room, and you cannot lock them in their room, and if you go with the one that has misbehaved to ensure they stay in their room you cannot be watching the other two. So I would make that point with the GP also. And tell him that your daughter is becoming scared and withdrawn and you need professional advice.

 

The alternative maybe for your daughter to go to her room? Or do you have a sun lounge she could go into and your son would not be allowed to go into?

 

I am always telling her to move away from him/come and find me (if I'm not in same room) if he starts to lash out.

There is no "safe" room at the moment, all rooms can be accessed by the kids.

 

You need to be consistent, and you need to be fair with all your children, as I presume you are really trying to do.

 

As best I can

 

I can't really recommend this, but when my son used to bite me, I once bit him back. Hard enough for it to hurt him. He didn't bite me again. But my son is much older now, and he does have some understanding of other people's feelings and that they may not want to do what he wants them to do. But it has taken years of teaching and working with the understanding he does have.

 

Tempting, but it probably wouldnt help!

 

What about using some pictures of peoples faces, and telling a short story to you son which involves one of them hurting the other, and asking your son "what do you think the other person is feeling?" See what he answers. And also ask "if xx has hurt xx and made them cry, do you think xx wants to play with xx?" [try to use names rather than pronouns because children with an ASD can sometimes struggle to understand pronouns, so give the characters real names.]

 

Does your son have a Statement of special educational needs, and what type of school does he go to?

 

He has a Statement and attends a Special Needs School, I will be speaking to them again once school restarts (4th Sept) to see if they can offer any rescourses.

 

We have been signed off by the Local Ed Pshyc as he is now under the in house one at his school (which I cant get hold of due to the holidays!) I have no access to respite from N though my Mum will take the other two out as and when she can. Sadly she isnt confident enough (her words) to take N (he is a flight risk!)

Their Father visits every three weeks, he lives over 3 hours drive away in single accomodation (work digs) so cant have them with him.

I can see how they are all competing for my attention and it does upset me. I try to find things for us all to do together (not an easy task!)

Edited August 10, 2012 by Pollyanna

[Sally44]

I would see what help the in-house EP can offer.

 

But I would also ask the GP to refer to Clinical Psychology, to a professional that has experience of working with children with an ASD. Clinical Psychology cover all behaviour, not just how a child learns.

[Sally44]

I mentioned about the lounge and sunroom, if you have one, because you could supervise both children them ie. be with your son whilst he is having time out, and still being able to see your daughter in the sun lounge - because if you try to divide them any other way you will not be able to see your children. Also, try not to be with your son during his time out, because your 'presence' with him looks like he gets more time with you than your other children who might be behaving very well indeed.

 

Get a time timer and set it and just keep taking him back.

[Sharn]

I really feel for you Pollyana,

I know what you are going through , as I am a single parent but ive had it the other way round my daughter has asd,adhd,odd etc etc I think pda, but has been very violent to me and her older brother and totally competitive all the time. Talks overeveryone including son. My daughter 13 son 14. Now he is reclusive,stays in room and has nothing to do with her,says he hates her. When I go up to see him she follows me . I ve tryed putting lock on his door, so he can lock her out, but she would bang door down and also run in his room lock herself in and not let him in. That didnt work!! I have tryed to get help and councilling for him, no one wants to no.My son seems to have developed eating disorder now . Not at all surprised life is far too stressful in this hs. I would try and get residential sch if you could. I have tryed but not untill school broken down would lea consider. Basically I have tryed every stratergy,but due to odd or pda nothing works and individuals are targetted. It breaks my heart what my son been through. I have done everything but as a single parent things are double as hard as you dont have another person to take one off, or police the sanction, so as it is you police the sanction and constant opposition etc and the other child has to keep out the way to be safe, its no way to live . I feel torn . Can I ask is he on meds as A is on sertraline for anxiety, but has had meds with bad side effects, one was strattera which defo made her more violent and suicidal, but also when she was off meds due to bad heads , she was incredibly violent. So meds defo worth looking into. Hope things improve x

[trekster]

i was thinking ODD when you mentioned your violent son. i would recommend the book 'multicoloured mayhem' which has a mix of children NT and autistic (also an ADHDer with associated behavioural difficulties has set fire to things).

 

i find sodium benzoate or benzoate in general causes me to be extremely angry, risperidone tipped me over the edge, i tend to shout at people but with benzoate in me i can turn into a Jeykll and Hyde character.

 

Could either of you (both the OP and Sharn) secretly record or film your children during one of these episodes and take them to the doctor? Then they will see what it is really like. Only yourself would know and i realise it feels like going behind your kids backs but it looks like you are out of options.

[Shnoing]

... we are struggling with my eldests aggression. I can see what most of the triggers are (mainly not getting what he wants/people not doing what he wants/things not working like they should ...

Supposing the ASD dx is correct, then I'd be very reluctant in saying something about "competing for attention" - does your son have enough "theory of mind" for that?

Our son (8 yrs.) is sometimes aggressive in a similar way, but as his siblings are 19 and older, he cannot do so much harm ... usually it's triggered by something unexpected.

Perhaps you'd need some helper, like described in Charlotte Moore's "George and Sam".

[trekster]

i tend to react on instinct to other peoples confusing and frightening behaviour. BBC4s iplayer could help here.

Also talking about feelings and why we did certain behaviours is really difficult for autistics.

 

If he likes hitting then wouldnt a punchbag or drums be better? My counsellor encouraged me to kick doors

and cupboards when angry, i accidentally kicked a hole in my lounge door not realising it was hollow. It was

Boxing Day and just so overloading for me i couldnt cope.

 

How about 'when my autism gets too big?' You've mentioned parenting courses, but have you been on

parenting courses about autism?

 

http://www.autism.org.uk/our-services/residential-community-and-social-support/parent-and-family-training-and-support/help-seminars/help-managing-anger-parent-seminars.aspx

 

http://www.autism.org.uk/our-services/residential-community-and-social-support/parent-and-family-training-and-support/family-support.aspx

 

http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/understanding-behaviour/challenging-behaviour.aspx

 

(the last link includes a link to 'biting').

[Pollyanna]

Thanks for all the advice everyone and massive hugs to you Sharn

Shnoing - its mainy my younger 2 that compete for my attention, esp when I am trying to avert or deal with one of N's meltdowns. They are like moths to a flame. Wich usually results in a three way stand off! I've noticed when I am trying to discapline one of my younger 2 N will very often intervine (by way of pinching, hitting) esp if they are not listening to me. Almost as though he thinks it his role. So its like he knows what they were doing was wrong yet it isnt when he does it? does that make sense?

 

The last few days ave been a bit up and down, really good followed by explosive episodes.

He isnt on any medication and I am reluctant to go down that route at the moment. Apart from the fact I have no idea how I would get him to take it!

It was his birthday this week so I expected it to be a tough one, lots of excitement, new toys etc

 

I did win a small battle yesterday after he threw one of his toys and tipped out a box of toy cars. I removed his new DSi and made it clear that untill he picked everything up he would not get it back. After a 10 min screaming fit he did it! I did have to lock all the doors as he will grab random items and throw them into the neighbours garden when in that state of mind. Doenst matter what it is, he has thrown Ds's, Video camera's, cups, toys etc

And then at the end of the day he played beautifully with his little sister for about 30 mins! Granted they were pretending to be his favorite characters (mario, sonic!) but it was wonderful to see, just wish it happened more often.

Sorry waffled on there a bit!

[trekster]

http://www.autism.org.uk/our-services/residential-community-and-social-support/parent-and-family-training-and-support/family-support/family-rights-project.aspx

 

There is also changing his diet but i think ive mentioned that already, try him on foods free from benzoate or other additives known to cause behavioural problems. i was diagnosed age 16 and i still have problems understanding others, this is lifelong and i have accepted that but avoiding certain food stuffs enables me to function.

 

http://www.dietetics.co.uk/article_additives_food_moods_behaviour.asp

 

i would also call in social services and mention you are struggling to cope with your sons Autistic behaviour. It does sound like he has ODD or something similar considering he seems to be enjoying winding people up.

 

Does he read? There are books for autistic including kids, a few examples aimed at kids your sons age are included below, there are also sibling support books.

 

http://www.autism.org.uk/products/core-nas-publications/the-incredible-5-point-scale.aspx

 

http://www.autism.org.uk/products/core-nas-publications/when-my-worries-get-too-big.aspx

 

siblings

http://www.autism.org.uk/products/core-nas-publications/my-family-is-different.aspx

 

http://www.autism.org.uk/products/core-nas-publications/i-really-dont-know-why.aspx

 

hehe just became tempted to buy some ASD literature myself :-)