Listen to speech therapist or not???

[Noskcaj86]

Ok I need to rant again,

 

My son has been having problems in school, hes been there 6 weeks ish now and the class teacher and class assistant are both concerned about his behaviour and lack of concentration, eye contact, ability to sit still, and social interaction. They also notice a clicking noise he makes and sideways walk he does. Basically they are noticing the behaviours that have concerned me and my partner since our son was very young.

Because of these issues the school asked our permission to put our son on to the school SEN register which means he now has an IEP. They also want him to have a 1 to 1 and we have just given permission for him to be assessed by an educational psychologist as they think its needed.

 

Today however the speech therepist went to see my son in scchool, this is only the 2nd time she has ever met him, the first time being an appointment at the hospital 2 weeks ago thet lasted 45 mins ish. She watched him in school today, then phoned me up at 4.30 this evening saying she doesnt sgree with the ASD referral and cant see any traits of autism...... Correct me if im wrong but she wasnt at school to assess him for asd... she was there to assess him SPEECH! what right does she have to give her opinion on weather or not he has autism. Anyway she said his speech was good now (after previously being 18 mths delayed) so i am pleased about that but just very confused by her opinion and wondering weather to listen to her or not regarding the asd diagnosis.

 

School are all for him having ASD assessment, the class teacher told me yeaterday she sees autistic traits in him. This speech therepist has confused me and i dont know who to listen to!

[justine1]

In a way....don't listen to her.Overall her opinion will count but she CANNOT diagnose at the end of the day so she should'nt have said that. Like you say she is there to assess speech and language only. She should make reports based on previous observations and the recent one,which you should have,none of which should include her opinion. However if the paediatrician who will assess for ASD wants her opinion he can then ask,at least you aware of what her answer is likely to be.

 

My 9 year old was assessed by a paed only,however my 6 year old was assessed by a few professionals(including SALT) They then had a meeting when we left and discussed their views and opinions,some agreed some did'nt but in the end its the paed who will make the decision as to whether to diagnose or not.

[Mannify]

His teachers are on the frontline with him day in, day out and are in a better position to see consistencies and patterns in his behaviour which a professional who assesses him for a brief window of time is less able to do. When our son was diagnosed it was a unanimous decision across a board of five professionals. They had no doubt about his diagnosis. Nonetheless, there was one ed psych a while back who insisted that his profile was the combined result of 'cognitive deficiency' (yes, she actually used that term) and parental rubbishness, basically, which is always a joy for a parent to hear . But her opinion was based on a brief encounter with him, and she is the only professional who has ever dealt with him who has ever doubted that he's autistic. So, the point is that a single professional sometimes does fail to see what other professionals around the child, and the child's parents, see.

 

Try not to let this dishearten you too much, and keep making records via videos, diaries and recordings which make the points that you need to prove.

 

Hope you go ok.

[Noskcaj86]

Justine, how many agreed/disagreed with your 6 year olds diagnosis? Thanx for replies

[justine1]

One person,I believe she was from early years,so educational side,however she never saw him in an education setting and had only observed him playing for about 5min.As it was a develpoment centre they would get around five children between age 2-5 in on the same day for assessment so that they could play and be observed in the same room,so at the time she was busy talking to one mum for quite some time before noticing my son.

 

Luckily the paed had spent an hour and half with him,as well as the paed who diagnosed his brother and the other professionals and school all agreed on a diagnosis.

[Noskcaj86]

Thanx. The odd thing is the SALT agreed he has some unusual behaviour but put it down too "still settling in to new school"! Thats untrue as these behaviours have been around since he was 18 ish months old, hes now 4. I didnt disagree or agree with her, just listened to her opinion, but inside i was shouting "No, your totally wrong" lol. We had a meeting with the school nurse, class teacher and class assistant 2 weeks ago and during this time the school nurse said she noticed some behaviours that would point to autism. So i have 3 people at school agreeing that they suspect asd but 1 saying she doesnt. When the SALT visited him today at school he wasnt himself in my opinion, because he hasnt been sleeping for weeks, he was up untill 12 am last night and 2 previous nights before while getting up early in the morning for school and i think it had caught up on him as he seemed very sleepy this morning and when i picked him up this afternoon. Im going to ask to talk to his class teacher again tomorrow to ask what she thought, weather his behaviour was his typical behaviour on the day or not.

[trekster]

Would a copy of the autism assessment criterion for toddlers sway her viewpoint?

Some autistics are fine during assessment but the real life experiences eg playing in

the playground are where the autistic traits really show up.

[Noskcaj86]

He was in a school classroom enviroment and she (SALT) said because he was socialising with other kids (2 kids, the only ones he ever plays with) by talking to them and playing with cars together that hes not autistic. His teacher who sees him every day from 9am untill 3.15, said most of the time he plkays alone and he is often in his own world and its hard snap him out of it and to get his attention.... The SALT has only met him twice, for a few hours maximum. The teacher sees him 5 days a week all day long, i think the teachers observations of him are probably more accurate. I wish the SALT hadnt mentioned asd, she was there purely to assess his speech not anything else :/

[Sa Skimrande]

I would be inclined to think as this person was acting in another capacity they should keep their attention on the job in hand and not comment on what they have no business in, that being, as a speech therapist, ignore her, it is not her field of expertise and as others have said it takes careful observation over a period of time by those most common to ascertain a difference compared to others and indeed a recognised learning difficulty.

 

Also for someone to actually telephone yourself to say what they thought where they have no business thinking screams to me an arrogant self important busy body and they should be told in no uncertain terms to wind their neck in unless they are prepared to make their thoughts official and there open to educated scrutiny.

[Noskcaj86]

I spoke to his teacher after school and she also doesnt agree with the speech therapists opinion about him not needing asd referal, she thinks he does. She also said on the day salt saw him he was not himself and she only really saw him 1 to 1. So her opinion is based on a very small amount of time with him, which wont show what me and his teacher see. I know my son better than the salt and i know he development/behaviour is different to his 3 brothers! not thinking much of her opinion really, and not sure why she thought she should give her opinion towards asd diagnosis when shes there to observe his speech!!!

[smileyK]

for seeing your son for such little space/period of time does not give her the right nor permission to just guess and diagnosis on her opinion and beliefs as she only has few events/situations to base this on so as she not qualified in officially assessing/diagnosing ASD professional basis i would disregard her opinions/views and follow through on right professional path of assessment/diagnosis through educational paedtrician etc???

 

XKLX

[Sa Skimrande]

But if this unqualified opinion has caused upset perhaps the route is also complaint to stop unqualified people upsetting people in future ?

[Sally44]

The SALT that saw our son told us to expect a diagnosis of ASD, which he did receive 18 months later having been referred to Clinical Psychologist and Developmental Paediatrician.

 

What worries me sometimes is that not all professionals have expertise or additional qualifications for certain developmental disorders. Mainstream teachers for example may notice things, but do not receive any training or take any additional qualifications for ASD, whereas specialist teachers in ASD specific schools do.

 

When my son was seeing professionals I began to see inconsistencies and contradictions and so I started asking for my son to be seen by specialist professionals with expertise or additional qualifications in that area. That made a difference.

 

Just because a child is talking, and their speech may even be advanced, does not mean they are not on the autistic spectrum. Children with Aspergers MUST have typical language development up to age 3.

 

My own son can get advanced results on some of the sub-tests of standardised assessments, and then score so low that he receives an overall diagnosis of severe/profound speech disorder.

 

What you need the SALT [or any professional involved] to do, is for them to carry out standardised assessments, and to complete ALL the subtests within that assessment. So for the SALT that would be things like the ACE or CELF 4 assessment, which covers all aspects of receptive and expressive speech. Around average scores are 8-13. My son scored 14 and 15 on some, 7-8 on others and 2-3 on others. But OVERALL, he got the severe/profound diagnosis because in the areas he scores very badly on they are involved in ALMOST ALL receptive and expressive language.

 

So if you think of speech and language and social communication as a hurdle race - if your child has a severe difficulty that causes them to fall at the first hurdle, that means they don't even get the chance to run the rest of the race regardless of the fact that they might jump the other hurdles. Does that make sense?

 

So how children are taught has to be very specific to their individual strengths and weaknesses.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Sally44

[Sa Skimrande]

What I have a question about is of qualified people how much of them is their qualification and how much is personal opinion, an opinion that can vary widely with mood or tiredness or other things on their mind, for those that assess and diagnose are only human, and so by nature; flawed.

 

But the more that get involved opens up the possibility of diagnosis via a committee, which can be good and bad, but it could be better than nothing where people's moods will be in check or risk being judged by their peers as qualified people don't like being judged when it is they think by virtue of being qualified or in the profession, they are the big I am.

 

But what kids go through now is a far cry from our school days which were filled with fear and confusion as we were bullied by pupils and teachers alike leaving not a good a memory of our child hoods which perhaps went on to influence our later lives, the negativity we feel where many of us indeed wondered where we fitted in if we did at all. Where in later life we are diagnosed with the same as what kids are receiving special attention for now in school, where they are getting the help they need and may go on to have a more positive adult life, but us late diagnosed look back on it all and think what a waste of life.

 

But looking into hemispherical thinking when I was at art college through a book that was pushed on us to help us become what we were studying for; Drawing on the right side of the brain by betty Edwards, it was not the lessons that interested me, it was the concept of hemispherical thinking where I found school is not designed to cater for the artist mind with the result the artist mind falls through school and out the bottom often with no qualifications other than art which gets them nowhere in adult life with many who turn to drugs and crime as it is a personal observation of many criminals is that they are fantastic artists and highly creative people, their failure is one through not understanding where they fit in and of many of those people they also seem to have a high incidence of ASD amongst them. As what is the point in our society of being creative if one cannot live, cannot find a job through the failure of schools to teach all mind types not just those that fit the teaching methods.

 

As to where I stand is my usual one foot in water and the other foot on the land position for I am equal right and equal left hemisphere where I find confusion in thinking between two poles, am I am engineer or am I am artist, I have no idea, but it was for another artist's land art installation at art college I designed and quantified the installation's foundations as I hold qualifications in civil engineering and so can design what I did, the artist in question had my calculations checked by paying for an engineer to quantify and found I was right. But I sucked at art college as I also sucked at technical college as between poles I was stuck where the art college sent me to an education psychologist who came up with the diagnosis of aspergers.

 

But that is the story of my life, one foot in either camp in everything even my genetics now, I live with confusion, I know what I am at last, but am still clueless really to where I fit in and so I live in my past as the future I fear if it is going to be anything like the past.

 

So of modern school though it may not be perfect, it could be getting there slowly, but what has to be remembered is school does not work for the individual as it is designed for the majority, where the minority whoever they currently are will always be failed as school simply does not cater for everyone, it can't because society itself has no clue of exactly what makes it up.

[Noskcaj86]

I have decided to phone the SALT and tell her i disagree with her opinion, my sons teacher told me i should have done this at the time of the phone call. She said i should always speak up if i disagree with an opinion. This SALT doesnt know my son at all, she doesnt know his detailed history, shes basing her opinion on a 3 hour period of observation. she hasnt seen enought to make the decision she doesnt think he is autistic. She also isnt qualified to assess him for autism. His paediatrician who has seen him for 3 years, his school teacher, my mum, his dad and me... we are the ones who know him and know that his development is not typical of a 4 year old. Im angry she thought she could give her opinion, maybe i should complain. I will definatly be letting her know i disagree. Lets just hope shes good at her actual job SALT and has done an accurate assessment of his speech! His speeh was not in any way typical development, he was non verbal until, at age 2 and a half he was speaking at the level of a 12 month old baby, then over 18 months he had intensive speech therepy and caught up from the level of 12 month old to 4 year old. Thats 3 years typical developmant happening in 18 months! That in its self shows something is going on with my son. This woman needs to stick to her own field, sorry for ranting!

[Sa Skimrande]

Rant away, it is clear you are upset, but in ranting away turn a negative into a positive and blast away, take this idiot on for the upset they have caused you whereby though it may not help you aside from blasting the stupid cow which offers some satisfaction, the long term positive may be stupid people are preventing from making uneducated opinions where they have no business running their mouth off.

 

Revenge is often sweet.

[trekster]

He was in a school classroom enviroment and she (SALT) said because he was socialising with other kids (2 kids, the only ones he ever plays with) by talking to them and playing with cars together that hes not autistic. His teacher who sees him every day from 9am untill 3.15, said most of the time he plkays alone and he is often in his own world and its hard snap him out of it and to get his attention.... The SALT has only met him twice, for a few hours maximum. The teacher sees him 5 days a week all day long, i think the teachers observations of him are probably more accurate. I wish the SALT hadnt mentioned asd, she was there purely to assess his speech not anything else :/

 

i had intensive speech therapy from age 2.5 to age 3 because my development was limited to delayed echolalia. Still my ASD diagnosis was missed until i was 16 and then i was given a milder diagnosis, this has badly affected my ability to be recognised within my family who insists 'i only have it a little bit' as cop out for allowing me any part of my autism. Professionals who stilt think aspergers is mild really need their heads seeing to as this is very damaging for relatives that take the diagnosis literally. Oh and my abilities are way behind many of my peers socially and they're all autistic as well.