Op..Optom...Eye people!!!!

[smiley]

Hello all

 

As some of you know, little monkeys been having huge problems at school this term.

 

We had another appointment with his consultant peadiatritian today...

She's chasing up the referal to clinical pyscologist and OT, but she's also refering him to the 'eye people' (how the **** do you spell that?? - Or say it for that matter!! ) as she feels M is having problems with sensory overload at school.

 

Noise definately affects him (he has ear defenders for that), he can be sensative to smells and touch etc. He's begun to complain about the lights 'jumping at him' at school and the words 'wiggling'. He hates my mums carpet - says it moves ......

 

I have read some bits and bobs about coloured lenses on here - but does anyone have any experience of them??

 

Lots of Love,

 

Confused!

[reuby2]

No i don't have any experience of them but my son also says that the lights make him feel funny at school, the optician said he was light sensitive.

 

Did you see on the Jacksons actual documentary last night on bbc4 that they took 2 of the lads to get the colour lenses and the effect was instant.The aspergers boy could walk in a straight line with blue lenses and the asd/adhd boy had reddish lenses and the words stopped moving all over the page for him. the guy said it was something to do with fooling the brain so that it worked in a different way i think..or something like that......Hope i haven't got that too muddled!!

[laine]

My little chap had his eyes tested and weve to go back in two years for testing to see if he needs coloured lenses. The speech therapist we see told us about them, her daughter has a processing dissorder and dyslexia. And she reccomends them. Not all optomerists specialise in this type of test, so it may be worth getting info who does this in youre area.

 

laine

[Ian Jordan]

IT was me on documentary last night

 

We can do a LOT more in ASD than was shown on TV last night. The best assessment method BY FAR is using additive colour techniques (www.Orthoscopics.com) but only a few practices / hospitals have it at the moment.

If you want more info about what can be addressed e mail me on IanJordan@visualdyslexia.com and I will send a free e book (please state whether you want basic book or longer one)

 

What you saw on the documentary is only a small part of what we can address using visual stimulus modification - tinted lenses are only part of the answer - although the ones we use are very different and much better in ASD than the other types of tints - I know, I designed them because other lenses were not good enough..

I am sad that every person with ASD does not get these assessments as a matter of course, they can change lives in an instant. All sensory systems (vision, hearing, balance, touch, taste, smell, short term memory, facial expression recognition........... and much more)

can be addressed through the visual system, the good news is that we can tell whether they are going to work during testing, perseverence, lots of exercises etc are not necessary.

If the brain has sensory input problems then it is essential that visual input is addressed ASAP.

[Canopus]

I have an appointment with a specialist on coloured lenses tomorrow.

[phasmid]

So how do we get an NHS referal to you, or someone like you, Ian? I live an hour or so away from you and following the first showing of the Jackson Documentary after phas jr was dx'd we asked about just the sort of treatment you mention on his next visit to the opticians (he cannot walk in a straight line to save his life). We were told there was only one clinic near to us (not yours) and we would have to pay �50 just for an appointment. Surely, if your type of assistance can do so much, shouldn't anyone dx'd with an ASD be offered a consultation as a matter of course? Is this sort of assistance only open to those who can afford it? Please don't think I am having a go at you personaly, it's just very frustrating knowing he might benefit from help such as yours and we can't get it.

[Zemanski]

try this link

 

 

 

http://www.orthoscopics.com/

 

 

Zemanski

[smiley]

Thank you for all your replies. I didn't watch it last night, but i have seen 'My family....' before, i didn't realise it can (possibly) make such a difference.

 

Ian - Thank you, email will be along in a moment.

[Valiant_Skylark]

Because of Ian Jordan I can read this computer screen for long enough, without a headache and feeling sick, to type out the answers that I do.

 

Thanks, Ian,

 

VS xx

 

PS The boys are doing better too.

[Ian Jordan]

Make sure all semsory integration issues are addressed,

All senses should be looked at during a visual perception assessment - takes at least an hour. We also address non verbal, non cooperative ASD. Make sure your specialist can do this, if he can then I recommend him.

 

 

Differences in "specialists" can be massive! If they do not address touch, smell, taste, balance, posture, hearing and just do a primitive reading test (+ normal eye tests) then I would advise a further test with someone who can perform the much more advanced tests that can be done (with much more advanced and accurate instrumentation that is available - READ EYE is the gold standard)

 

There are some primitive methods being used on tint prescribing (ask if they can do additive assessments - if they can't most of the best results will be missed)

 

Ask how they deal with metamerism - if they look blank - walk away - quickly

 

There are no higher diploma courses -yet, although one is planned to start next September - have just written syllabus (20 week for optometrists, opticians, doctors etc)

[ceecee]

This thread is very interesting.Whilst I knew poor short term memory was a feature of A>S> I didnt realise it was a sensory thing.Neither did I realise that some people with A.S. couldn't walk in a straight line.I also didn't realise that tinted glasses could do so much.Though I know they can be used to treat dsylexia very succesfully.

 

Although i have a.s. my short term memory is not affected and i don't bump into too many people i think I can walk in a straight line

 

This forum amazes me with it's wealth og knowledge.There is always new things to learn.Thanks for the info all

[oracle]

Ian is a grade A* guy. As well as talking me though David's eye condition and giving me some excellent advise he is also coming to do a conference for our local group Anyone here fancy a trip to Sunderland in March

 

Can't wait myself.

 

Carole

[Canopus]

I have now seen the specialist. He performed tests using coloured overlays on a page of text. One particular colour seems to help although I don't show the usual reactions of someone with dyslexia when presented with a colour filter. They notice a vast improvement almost instantly.

[Zemanski]

now we're listening, Ian

 

Canopus, if you have AS then more than just one sense needs looking at carefully - Even with dyslexia it is still pretty hit and miss whether testing with just colour overlays is effective, or as effective as it could be. They have helped Dot (dyslexic) and Com (AS) but I still want to take them to Ian because I reckon his method has far more potential to deal with a wider range of problems

Zemanski

Edited December 15, 2005 by Zemanski

[Canopus]

I still don't know exactly how the use of colour filters work in conjunction with AS. Is there anything published in medical journals or is it "underground" medicine? Colour filters have been used for at least 150 years - possibly longer - for chemistry, printing, forensic science, and astronomy to highlight regions of a particular colour in a multicoloured sample. I found colour filters helpful when I studied chemistry despite no recommendations by the teacher or the exam board. The only instance of using colour filters for a medical purpose is to correct colour vision problems and glasses with tinted lenses have been available on the open market since the 1920s to help people with red/green colour vision problems distinguish between colours more easily. They are not recommended by the medical profession and their use is banned in most applications requiring perfect colour vision such as airline pilots or train drivers. There is also controversy on whether the lenses are tinted for optimal colour distinguishing ability during everyday use or whether they are tinted for the best score on an Ishihara test!

 

The optical components of the human eye produces chromatic aberration where light of only one wavelength can be perfectly focused onto the retina at any one time. White light including that reflected from a white surface under daylight or most artificial lighting is comprised of all wavelengths from red through to violet. Are the tinted lenses used with AS and dyslexia designed to counteract the effects of chromatic aberration by altering the proportion of the different wavelengths that hit the retina at the same time so that one sees things more focussed? The proportion of light at a particular wavelength corresponding to the colour of the filter is higher than that of white light? Theoretically the problems of flickering words, letters jumping around on a page, and words running into each other could be caused by seeing an in focus image of one wavelength superimposed with many out of focus images at other wavelengths.

[Ian Jordan]

There is oodles of research, just it is unlikely that a layman can understand it! Colour is very complex and still not understood well.

The only way of specfying colour is as a 3 / 4 dimensionsional mathematical construct and the idea that chromatic aberration is causative is incorrect and easily shown to be so. The model we use would shock you! - it is frighteningly complex. It does however allow us to predict symptoms.

Colour is routinely used already in a number of medical conditions and more research is current, some of it is very exciting.

 

Overlays cover a very small area of colour space and are unsuitable for assessment (max 15% of colour space) and anyone who has even a basic knowledge of colour assessment would not use them. Lights we use for screening replicate retinal function and cover around 75% of colour space.

 

To explain the effects possible in Autism at a reasonable level for parents and interested professionals would take around 5 hrs in conference. Happy to do it if someone organises it! (and I won't charge a fee either)

[Canopus]

I studied digital image processing as part of my degree and it covered various colour models used for computer graphics. Is the model you use an existing colour model or is it a new model you have developed?

[Ian Jordan]

OK - put in a complex way

you need to take into account

LMS processing (RGB / brightness / flicker)

retinal mapping and anatomy with particular regard to horizontal cells, amicrine cells, biploar cells, pannums areas

plasticity of neural pathways

magnocellular and parvocellular pathways

the structure and pathways to the brain

sequencing and coding at the occipital cortex

input from other sensory systems

neurofeedback looping

temporal processing

fourier analyis of signal

The structure and physiology of the lateral geniculate nucleus

interaction with cranial nerves 3 - 12

and more

 

In addition lens design, metamerism, flicker (modulation and frequency)

angular subtension, anisokonia, binocular rivalry, the cerebellum, split brain effects

the pretectum, the thalmus and more need to be put into the equation.

 

sorry about taking no prisoners - this is a complex subject.

It can be explained to a layman, but it is not easy

[phasmid]

Fascinating. I can even understand some of it and can appreciate from what you have written just how complex this is. However, how do we get a NHS referal to your type of service? Can we?

Edited December 15, 2005 by phasmid

[Ian Jordan]

sadly unless referred by a consultant, it is not available through the NHS.

Wish it was though.

I have an agenda that means any child regardless of family means can get appropriate assessments and treatments. This is not the case and unlikely to be so unless politicians decree it.

But someone does have to pay - you cannot expect people to work for nothing (you could not expect anyone to use their own money like me - research and development has cost me a fortune!) But it is a barometer of how we value our children, currently ...

 

The research we have undertaken e.g. the effects on brain arousal are conclusive.

But there are none so deaf as those that don't want to listen.

[phasmid]

But it is a barometer of how we value our children, currently ...

 

I would not expect anyone to give of their hard earned skills and knowledge for free. We all have to feed and clothe ourselves, and our children. However when you find yourself of limited means due to health issues beyond your control it isn't easy to know that help may be available if only finances could be found. Sadly my sons opticians could not see how a referal, on the NHS at least, to a consultant would be of any help to my son.

 

"A private referal?" No problem! A barometer of the value society places on money perhaps...

 

Perhaps politicans need to see it from where we both stand. You have the knowledge, my son may the need...they however have the purse strings, you distract them and I'll arrange a bag snatch!

 

Thanks for the reply Ian.

[Zemanski]

Ian, if anyone here can understand your work it is probably Canopus - if he doesn't understand now, he has the perseverance and interest to ensure he will before he goes to bed; give him all you've got and see how he does

 

 

Zemanski

[Ian Jordan]

I am writing a book to explain the model - probably around 200 pages. Not complete (or anywhere near) but publisher already found.

Pressure of work means it is slow progress, expect it ready in about a year - I hope. Sorry it is not higher on my priorities, but some of the things we are working on are so important (can't tell anyone what we are doing, but very exciting things are going on) that there are inevitable choices as to how I delegate time. As it is I work too many hours!

Intellectually the model is understandable but it is not written in an understandable form for a layman as yet - it does need to be as academics often are more interested in academia than helping children and the best advocate for a child is their parent. "If you wait for twenty years we might produce a number of papers that mightr suggest that there is a problem"I will need to be able to defend it in academic circles and force change. Remember, when I do publish I will be suggesting that many eminent people have to change their lifes work, they will attempt to criticise the model (nit pick in extremis) and if that does not succeed I will be "fair game". There are a lot of things happenning behind the scenes and data is being built up.

There are also vested financial interests in making sure that children cannot be treated - staggering but true - the whole area is a minefield. Parents are usually naive in this area, but whatever the rights and wrongs are, the MMR debacle shows how people and ideas can be attacked.

[smiley]

Well............I think i can safely safe the majority of that went straight over my head!

 

But, the main problems my little one has do seem to stem from problems in this area - so i'll keep at it!

 

Anyone know a good - parent friendly - book?? (preferably with nice strong cover - makes it much more rewarding when bashing over the head of school peeps )

[Ian Jordan]

anyone that wants simple e books free send email to me on IanJordan@visualdyslexia.com

 

3 books

 

signs symptoms assessment

screening techniques

over view

 

hope it helps

 

 

if you prefer to buy they are available through desktop publications on 01652 656552

[Canopus]

There are also vested financial interests in making sure that children cannot be treated - staggering but true - the whole area is a minefield.

 

So who exactly are these vested financial interests?

[CarerQuie]

My dytslexic daughter has shown a great improvement following the introduction of coloured lenses some years ago.I hadn't considered them for my ASD son.xx

[Elouise]

In response to the original query.

 

YES!

This was the final last ditch attempt I made to try and make life less painful.

 

I have had real problems with light as long as I can recall everything is just too bright; too glary too MUCH.

Looking for tinted lenses was the final last ditch attempt I made to try and make life less painful.

 

I had already had an EEG done at a hospital eye clinic to try and work out how light sensitive I was. Flicker glare and bright light send me straight into recordable overload and make me pass out with pain. Yes I AM photosensitive but its not an epileptic response. I ended up with anti-convulsants to try and damp everything down enough to get through each day as the only option available at time. The drugs turned my brain into meringue.

 

My lenses are the sort of green that ponds go on hot summers. They stand out even in the summer when people wear sunglasses and you know what I do not care.

 

Without the lenses I walk into walls door edges and misjudge distance and have the bruises to show for it *ow*.

By lunchtime I have so much head pain I can throw up and triptains only treat the light triggered migraine not stop it in the first place..

I can barely read as the words merge so they look like they are slipping down the page. My spelling does not exist as I cannot see typos or spelling errors.

I cannot cope with the TV, computer screen, overhead lights or glowing red diodes on assorted electrical gadgets in the house.

In short it makes my life an absolute pain filled misery. I had not realised what a difference the lenses would make for me personally. I would have been happy for a slight improvement.

 

Thanks to having a full UVA tint anti glare tint and the coloured lenses put in on top of correcting that stupid astigmatism I can see for long periods without pain.

I can read write and function; without pain.

Thanks to lenses I have my life back. I am now studying a degree and I am working in a job that allows my geeky obsession for order to flourish

 

 

Sadly whilst the bit that corrects my astigmatism side of my visual distortion IS covered by the NHS the rotten tints were not. Its the same for my daughter.

The difference that cerium tint lenses made mean I am thanks to being able to work again...saving up so that I can afford the journey for myself and Annie to try a more refined test. I have been able to cut right back on the anti-convulsants *yippee brain now back in my possession* but I know I would like the best improvement possible having had a taste of 'this works for me lets explore further'.

 

I see no point in getting Nathan tested. He loses everything within less than five minutes expensive glasses are not joining the list of things Nathan has mislaid broke dismantled or lost. Sam has no sight problems anyone can locate and doe snot scream over lights or have dyslexic or dyspraxic symptoms ditto Jo but Annie lets say she appears to be my daughter poor kid.

 

For those who do have sensory problems then it may be worth pursuing this ; for someone with real problems with light and pain DEFIANTLY pursue. The glasses cost less over six months than constant prescriptions for me did.