Boys and girls with AS dx

[nikrix]

I have a bit of a debate going on on another forum. Someone said that boys are affected more seriously. My view is and this is just my view, that girls go unnoticed, are more inward and find it hard to express themself's this can cause many huge problems. It was also said they have a better outlook. Every child is different, I myself dont't believe that you can say one is more serious than the other. It may be because I have a girl with a dx.

 

I would like to know your views on this

[something_different]

i did read an article on this issue

 

I can't remember where i read it though! sorry

[Lynden]

I'm not really qualified to answer because I only know one ASD girl, but several boys (although not THAT well). I wouldn't say one sex is worse than another - they're all at different levels regardless of whether they are male or female.

 

Lynne x

[adamsmum]

I heard boys are moor likely to be special needs. I don't agree. I think girls may be overlooked or mistaken for being shy. I think people expect moore from boys so notice moore. I don't see how they can say boys can be effected worse that seems a bit silly to me

[ceecee]

I think from what i have read thT Mybe they present differently.

 

I think that girls(this is based on me)often come across as bit shy and no so obviously odd and it can go unnoticed for much longer and they get a much later diagnosis.my husband has often referred to my aspergers as hidden aspergers.In other words i don't come across as obviously different although i still have the same difficulties as some boys are having in the same areas and in some areas the difficulties are worst.

 

 

I have thought for a long time that boys with the conditiona re affected worst but then perhaps that isn't the case when i thought about it a bit more.i think it is more obvious they are more obviously odd or different.

 

Then i don't have any difficulties with eye contact or social etiquette, though i don't like socialising and don't feel the need to .Eye contact and social etiquette are two very obvious areas of difficulty.

 

I think it is often very hard to pick up A.S. in girls and with boys it appears to be very obvious.my husband had a friend with probable a.s. and he came across as quite odd.yet if you compared me to him i would appear normal, i am not far from it. :

[neda]

The only thing I've really seen about this is that boys are 4 times more likely to be affected by it. I have never read that they are more seriously affected. If one of my girls had behaved the way my boy does I would have known immediately something was wrong, whereas because he was a boy, it was put down to boys being boys, being more boisterous etc. etc..

 

I don't know anyone else whose child has or is being assessed for AS so can't make comparisons.

[Bullet]

Can I ask a question? In so many ways I fit Aspergers. I am a very fast talker (although have learnt to slow down) and sometimes I talk too quiet or too loudly without being aware of it. I have no accent (don't mean rp, I mean I have blended all the accents of the places I've lived in). I flap my hands when stressed and hate crowds and loud noises. I can't make eye contact easily and am hopeless at guessing what someone's thinking. I get obsessed with particular topics and hobbies and need to live to a routine, finding it difficult to even walk a different way into town.

But - dependant on the context, I understand metaphor and simile. Eg if someone said to me "pull your socks up" and I was wearing some I would automatically go to do that. But, if they said to me "if you want to achieve something, you'll need to pull your socks up" I'd understand they meant I'd have to work harder.

So does that mean I don't have Aspergers, because I can realise fairly often when someone isn't being literal?

[adamsmum]

bullet you don't have to have all the symtoms to have aspergers we are all different. Lot's of us have it but don't tick all the boxes on the list of symtoms and no one els notices it.

[Mother in Need]

Over the years you learn to apply strategies to deal with the problems you encounter. like with sayings like 'pull your socks up', my ds would immediately first pull up his socks, but then you can see him think 'o no, I was not supposed to do that, it has another meaning too!'. so he has learned the meaning of the saying (and ohters like it) and can now apply some of them.

And in this way you learn a lot of things and adapt. Am I making sense here? What I am trying to say is, that you could well be AS, but have learned to cope with some of it over the years, hence making the AS somehwat less apparent.

[ceecee]

I don't actually consider boys are more badly affected than girls.i just think it can seem that way sometimes.their aspergers is more noticable lesshidden e.g. they show up as being odd or different more.Girls tends to be more hidden but not necessarily less severe.hope this makes sense.

[Viper]

Well I have got one of each.

 

My daughter is 14 and was DX'ed at 9. My son is 5 and still has no DX.

 

The differences between them are mainly that my DD is not as violent as my son. DD Cried constantly as a baby, she was never happy and had fears that started much earlier than Bens. She had a fear of grass and hated being picked up too quickly or being swung or bounced around like most babies do. She also hated being naked.

 

Bens Obsessions were the first thing we noticed, before he could walk he had a obsession with the labels on his soft toys, he would pick up a toy then find the label and suck it. when he learned to walk he would follow me everywhere and when I was in the kitchen cooking he would stand at the baby gate and scream. He also used to self harm at this age. Because he couldn't get to me he would bang his head on the gate repeatedly leaving bruises. If he was told no he would slap his own face or bang his head on the floor, I often had to put my hand under his head to stop him hurting himself because if I told him to stop he would do it more.

 

Another big difference is that although Dodobird (DD) didn't like going to school she grew to like it and now gets on very well and has a best friend. Ben on the other hand hated his few weeks at school so much that I don't think he could have taken any more than the 4 weeks he did.

 

In conclusion there is a vast difference between Ben and Dodobird. Ben is more volatile than dodobird.

The other main difference is that Ben has 2 co-morbid conditions of ODD and Separation anxiety disorder. Dodobird has none.

 

If there is any more questions you want to know feel free to ask, I will do what I can to answer.

 

Viper.

[mum22boys]

I was looking in a book last night after reading your post and it said that although boys are more likely to have AS. Girls apparently have a more severe form (can't remember the actual words as I am in a mad rush for school at the mo). But I thought i would let you know that it does state this it is in a book by Lorna Wing.

 

mum22boys

 

I must say though i can't see how it can be generalised as all children are different and i don't believe one sex can be worse than the other.

[sue45]

I read a paper (sorry, can't remember who by) that argued that there are probably as many girls as boys affected but girls don't present in the same way as boys. My paed also said that because females are wired differently emotionally to boys, girls with AS kind of have a bit of a head start on boys with AS in the area of socialising.

 

My daughter has just been diagnosed and unless you knew her well, you wouldn't think she has any problems. She's learnt how to deal with most social situations and it's very important to her to fit in and not stand out from the crowd so make-up and appearance are extremely important to her (I've read many accounts which say children with AS, particularly teens aren't bothered how they look and don't feel the need to follow trends in order to fit in - that's definitely not the case with H - it's almost as if she wants to appear just the same as everyone else because she's aware that she's somehow different. You could call her attention to detail on this matter an obsession, but I think it's closer to home to say she just wants to be thought of as a normal teenager.

 

When she attended primary school, an attitude and behaviour analysis was carried out on every class member and her teacher (this was before we knew about the As) drew to my attention H's scores which he said were unusual for a girl and more in line with how you'd expect the scores for the boys to be. In other words she scored high on the aggression side and didn't like authority figures. She didn't respond well to being told off or to being spoken to in a stern way and would be argumentative and contrary. He also said that although she wasn't bullied, she stood out from the others in that she spurned friendly overtures - did not in fact seem to recognise when another pupil was trying to be friendly and would rebuff them in quite a harsh manner.

 

She's come a long way since then and seems to have learned how to deal with people in a more friendly way most of the time now. The title of the book, "Pretending to be Normal" written by a woman with AS (sorry can't remember her name!) which I haven't yet read, but will when I can get hold of it, really stood out for me because I'm pretty sure that's what my daughter does and has learned to do for herself; she pretends to be normal. I can only imagine how hard that must be - re-thinking your instinctual reaction, and altering it in order to fit in. No wonder she has melt downs at home. Maybe though, that's how girls are different to boys. they are able to hide things are feel it's more important to fit in?

 

For my part, i think there are probably as many girls as boys with AS but they slip through the net and aren't spotted as easily because they don't present in the same way as boys.

[barefoot wend]

I used to wonder if the fact that girls are born with more social adeptness than males (in the general, rather than asd pop.) that more high functioning asd girls would go undetected for longer as perhaps they have slightly more innate social savvy than asd boys.

 

However, I'm certainly not convinced that it makes any difference to how asd effects them, just that it means they go undetected for longer - AND that this would only apply to the high functioning contingent.

 

However, I feel this less and less now. What do you think?

 

How weird, just reading Sue's post.

Edited January 9, 2006 by barefoot wend

[ceecee]

Sue

 

I agree with much of your posting.Girls learn to fit in and don't stand out so much like boys do therefore they can go undetected for much longer.It doesn't actually mean they are less effected than boys just they are often better at pretending to be normal.

 

I went all the way through school without anyone detecting anything.It could be argued that when i went to school a.s. was not known about but i think it was more the case of I just fitted in.Yet my husband's friend who has suspected a.s. is much more obviously different.

[sue45]

Weny, weird - I agree! Just read yours and you said pretty much what I think but much more succinctly!

[UltraMum]

The title of the book, "Pretending to be Normal" written by a woman with AS (sorry can't remember her name!) which I haven't yet read, but will when I can get hold of it, really stood out for me because I'm pretty sure that's what my daughter does and has learned to do for herself; she pretends to be normal.

 

I think it's Lianne Holliday Wiley who wrote it - she also has an AS daughter.

 

I have heard it said that there are similar numbers for male/female As occurrance - girls are less likely to be diagnosed early and do seem to benefit from the ability to 'blend in' better than boys.

[sue45]

Ceecee, yes, as I say, my daughter does her best to fit in but I know it really isn't as easy as it sounds - I see how upset she gets when things go wrong and what a strain it is for her.

 

Mothereve - thanks - Lianne holiday Wiley rings a bell!

[Kathryn]

This is an interesting discussion. I have a 16 year old daughter with ASD.

 

I agree with much of what's been said - perhaps girls are more able to play the social game and it has long been recoginsed that girls are more verbally skilled at an earlier age - this probably helps them to compensate for other difficulties.

 

My daughter was able to pretend to be normal for many years and manage to hide her stress at school. She was very articulate and able to copy others. Perhaps boys are less able to do this and are more likely to be aggressive when they are stressed, and from the teacher's point of view, disruptive. Does this mean that boys get the label, and the help, at an earlier age? Possibly.

 

One of the things I've been mulling over is whether more boys than girls get statements (proportionally I mean - I know more boys than girls present with special needs and so the actual numbers would be higher). If girls with ASD are suffering in silence and not creating a problem in the classroom perhaps their needs are played down whilst boys with the same dx are viewed as a more urgent problem. Worth an investigation, maybe, to see where there is a gender bias?

[baddad]

My initial response was going to be "The Boys Have Willies!", but that's probably because I'm very tired, and I apologise and wont do it again ...

And anyone who's visited the site more than once will know I'm lying about the last bit but really DO mean the apology

 

Now - seriously...

 

There is a much higher incidence in boys, and often it tends to be girls with more profound or 'classic' symptoms who are diagnosed.

Personally, I think the reason for the former is that far more girls at the HF (sorry - not a phrase I like to use but as an 'easy' yardstick it has it's value) remain undiagnosed, and I believe there are two factors involved...

 

It's generally the case that women's brains develop diffently to men's : that the centre for communication is significantly larger/better developed. I think this means that girls are more adept at 'masking' traits of autism (with regard to communication, at least), and can develop alternative methods of 'unravelling' communication more readily.

 

I also think (but this is completely unscientific and open to challenge - as it has been in the past KATHRYN) that there is a wider 'model' of 'normal' behaviour for girls, and that social eccentricities are far more likely to be accepted as (possibly endearing) character traits than as 'problems'.

This , of course, is hugely unfair on the girls who do have problems, so please don't misunderstand my intentions - I'm not trying to say boys have it harder...

I was talking to a friend recently, and she described her son as being 'Fey', a quaint old word, but one that does seem very apt for many 'aloof' autistic children. Afterwards, it struck me that 'Fey' is a word you would generally associate with girls, and it would not necessarily have a negative connotation (and neither should it!)... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Anne Elk (miss) over and out

 

PS: Having now gone back and read the whole thread I see that my first point was well and truly (and more effectively) covered... Sorry all

Hope the purely specualtive second one compensates in some way

Edited January 9, 2006 by baddad

[ceecee]

My mother's old next door neighbour had a grandaughter who was extremely shy and anxious at school.It used to take her hours and hours to do anything always late for school.She was constantly washing her hands etc.At thirteen she was diagnosed with o.c.d.Finally a few years later she was diagnosed with A.S.I am very familiar with A.S. but I would never had said she has A.S. but she has and has a diagnosis and i have no doubt that that is correct.

 

She is another example of a girl with A.S. who has hidden aspergers or pretends to be normal.I think many girls at the h.functioning end of the spectrum remain undiagnosed.They just seem to be better at masking it than boys and often don't come across for want of a better word odd, different or wierd.

[nikrix]

Hi every one and thanks for your replies

 

I think every child is individual and no one can say which sex presents with a more serious dx and which will have a better outlook. I just wanted to see your views on it and thanks; you all have interesting views and very much my thoughts.

 

Interesting topic as girls do go unnoticed and there is more boys with dx than girls, because they present different.

 

Yes girls are the quite one's

 

Nikirx

Edited January 9, 2006 by nikrix

[Sallya]

How would a dual diagnosis in a girl present itself, ie if she had ADHD and Aspergers?

[Kathryn]

I also think (but this is completely unscientific and open to challenge - as it has been in the past KATHRYN) that there is a wider 'model' of 'normal' behaviour for girls, and that social eccentricities are far more likely to be accepted as (possibly endearing) character traits than as 'problems'.

 

Yes we have been here before, haven't we (a similar discussion on another thread some while ago). Still disagree - (I can't remember exactly what I said back there ). I think what you are saying is more applicable to adult women than girls, Baddad. I think at a younger age, say between 7 and 16, peers of both genders are very unforgiving of anyone who is outside the norm. Both genders have an elaborate set of social rules and language. Both girls and boys with AS try to mask their atypical behaviour in order to appear to conform, but girls are probably better at it, and can keep it up for longer, for reasons already mentioned.

 

Also completely speculative and unscientific.