asereht Report post Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) Hi all, my son has always been stubborn with apologies ,especially if he feels he's not in the wrong or doesn't understand what he did wrong. This happened yesterday, please bear with me and i'll try to keep it as short as possible! He is attending an adolescent unit on a daily basis to work towards getting back to school full-time ( not very successful so far) . When I went to collect him yesterday afternoon ,I was called in and told that K had called the teacher in the unit a j**k because she had told him he was being obnoxsious ( excuse spelling) and put him outside the classroom for 20 minutes and he got quite worked up over this. She said he could go home when he said he was sorry. He didn't say sorry and got quite worked up and upset so I took him home and we went back in this morning for round two! He claims he doesn't know what he did wrong ( to be sent out of class) and wants this explained to him ,Teacher says she won't discuss the issue until he says sorry for calling her a j**K and he won't say sorry until she discusses the issue...aargh!!! He is not allowed back to the unit until he apologizes. He says fine he won't be going back then . He got really upset worse I've seen him ,stormed out of the building and I had to chase after him and get him back to the car,he was crying,screaming and saying he wishes they were all dead and he hated everyone in the place . I went in to tell teacher I was going home now and asked what had he been doing as I wasn't told either! I was polite at all times, we usually have and still do a fairly good relationship with her ( although I have secretly raised the odd eyebrow unknown to my son on some of her discipline issues) She said he was out of his place walking around and being cheeky when she spoke to him telling her to chill out ,calm down ,etc . He went very quite on the way home and for a good while after , he is calmer now ( keeps looking for hugs) and a little more cheerful now but explodes if I bring up the subject. His psychiatrist is attached to the unit along with speech therapist,nurse,care worker etc. My husband rang the psychiatrist to see what happens now ,as my son is only going to school 5 hours a week one to one spread over 3 days and now will not be at the unit ( Teacher thinks full sure he will apologize and then he can come back) in my experience he won't. We have begged and pleaded with him to no avail The psychiatrist said it's the teachers call and he feels my son knows why he was sent out but won't say for one reason or another...I don't think so as he begged and pleaded with the teacher to understand how frustrating it was for him not to understand why he was being punished,both alone with her and when I was there. Teacher said if he doesn't know she will tell him when he apologizes.!!! HE WON'T She said she understands it's difficult for him and she has dealt with children with AS in the past but they are there to help him and he must say he is sorry for calling her that name or it's goodbye. I understand where she is coming from but I also ( maybe wrongly) see his point. I don't know what to do and feel let down by the system again. Sorry for making this post so long . PLEASE has anyone any advice or opinion ,I just don't know what to do now Theresa Edited February 3, 2006 by asereht Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reuby2 Report post Posted January 31, 2006 Could you explain to him why it was wrong?Perhaps try to make him see how his behaviour made the teacher feel?Then talk about how it made him feel? Perhaps explain that it is important to respect his teacher?Social story? I don't know how old your son is or where he is on the spectrum so i'm not much help i'm afraid.But I'm thinking of you and he may just suprise you once he has calmed down a little. <'> <'> <'> <'> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asereht Report post Posted January 31, 2006 Could you explain to him why it was wrong?Perhaps try to make him see how his behaviour made the teacher feel?Then talk about how it made him feel? Perhaps explain that it is important to respect his teacher?Social story? I don't know how old your son is or where he is on the spectrum so i'm not much help i'm afraid.But I'm thinking of you and he may just suprise you once he has calmed down a little. <'> <'> <'> <'> Thanks for the quick reply, He feels she called him a name first and doesn't know what he did in the classroom ,she told me she won't tell him until he says sorry for calling her that name. He has discussed his feelings on it with me and her and still feels the same I have told him he needs to respect her but he says she should respect him too and stop treating him like she is doing ( refusing to tell him why he was put out )he is 15. He has Aspergers, fairly high fuctioning but at times of stress can be very much on the lower end of the scale. Just replying has helped ,thanks again. Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justamom Report post Posted January 31, 2006 Hi ya, My view is that the teacher says that she has dealt with As students before so she should therefore know that without an explanation he cannot see what he has done wrong and no amount of her saying he should apologize will make him do so without an explanation. She seems to be the obniouxs one at the moment saying that she will only say what he did wrong if he apologizes first how immature. I know that we try and teach our children to respect adults at all times but this situation is a little different yes he should not have called her a name but she seems to have taken it too personally. Just my view justamom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jb1964 Report post Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) Really sympathise with you over this one. I can't imagine my daughter saying sorry for anything if she didn't know or understand what she'd done in the first place that was wrong and why - irrespective of what she called someone after the event. Having said that - if someone said something to me that I thought was unfair and offered no explanation then I think I would feel like calling them a jerk (although obviously I wouldn't). Edited January 31, 2006 by jb1964 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tez Report post Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) You really have my sympathy, I can see A refusing to budge as well. There is no way that she would ever get an apology out of him if he didn't think he'd done anything wrong or thought he was justified in his actions. Personally, I actually respect this, it's too easy to apologise and not mean it. An apology should only be issued if it means something. I think the whole situation has been badly handled. Yes, I can see the teacher's point but she really is not taking into account his AS. It seems to me she is still trying to maintain face but she lost that when she allowed him to go home without apologising after saying he had to apologise first. It seems to me that she really needs to sit down and explain to him what he did wrong, this sort of stand off is not going to achieve anything. Why is she so insistent on a apology that would clearly mean nothing? I'm not sure how these units work but she is effectively excluding him from his education and what is she teaching him by doing it, he doesn't appear to be learning anything from it other than a sense of injustice. Doesn't seem to me that she is trying to help him in this respect more trying to enforce her will. Is there anyone else who can mediate in this situation for you? If the teacher is not prepared to back down could you speak to the head of the unit and see if you could work out some sort of resolution that would be acceptable to both the teacher and your son? Otherwise, I guess he just won't be going back to the unit and he doesn't seem too upset about that and maybe if there is such a lack of understanding of AS it isn't the place for him. Edited January 31, 2006 by Tez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hallyscomet Report post Posted January 31, 2006 This in so infuriating she told me she won't tell him until he says sorry for calling her that name. Why wont she come out and tell you child stupid woman for godsake, he has ASD, she should make some allowances for that. I would be complaining about her and how she has dealt with this. I would be speaking to the Principal. I wouldn't be as calm as you. Sounds like this teacher is the problem, and she is making your childs life hell. I hope you and you boy get some justice here, this has dragged on way to much. All the best, hope you get someone to step in and sort this woman out, not telling the child what he did wrong, how old is she don't put up with this. Teachers should never be this rigid with ASD children. Hailey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asereht Report post Posted February 1, 2006 Hi ya, My view is that the teacher says that she has dealt with As students before so she should therefore know that without an explanation he cannot see what he has done wrong and no amount of her saying he should apologize will make him do so without an explanation. She seems to be the obniouxs one at the moment saying that she will only say what he did wrong if he apologizes first how immature. I know that we try and teach our children to respect adults at all times but this situation is a little different yes he should not have called her a name but she seems to have taken it too personally. Just my view justamom I agree she may be taking it a little too personally! Having said that - if someone said something to me that I thought was unfair and offered no explanation then I think I would feel like calling them a jerk (although obviously I wouldn't). I'm inclined to agree with this too ,had to bite my tongue in front of my son,when we came home and related to hubby what had happened. Otherwise, I guess he just won't be going back to the unit and he doesn't seem too upset about that and maybe if there is such a lack of understanding of AS it isn't the place for him. I am coming round to the same feeling. Thankyou all so much for your replies,Hailey, she is the principal and main teacher as it is just a small unit! As I said the psychiatrist is on her side ,when my husband asked what if he won't go back he said we'll see what happens,maybe have a meeting. I am sure when he doesn't show up tomorrow the head of the unit will contact me but they had a team meeting this morning and I'm pretty sure she knows all about what happened.Also when I was called in on monday afternoon ,as I walked into the place the head of the unit and the teacher were both talking and I don't need to guess what that was about ,if the look I got was anything to go by. I'll let you know how it goes and thanks again, I'd belost without you all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asereht Report post Posted February 1, 2006 Well sleeping on it hasn't changed his mind .He says he is not going in today if he has to apologize,so I guess he won't be going in. I'll wait now to see if the unit call me. Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hallyscomet Report post Posted February 1, 2006 Can hardly blame him he is feeling persecuted. Have you been happy with this school to date, have they been supportive. Surely someone on here can help you, Hailey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carrieq Report post Posted February 1, 2006 With my ds it is very cut and dried. Not as extreme but in class he bit a boy and was told to apologise and he said he wouldn't unless the other boy apologised too as the boy he bit had been annoying him by talking when he shouldn't. Eventually the teacher accepted this and they both apologised. It all goes to show how things make sense in their heads and all people working with our kids need to take that into account, just because it seems bizarre from our point of view, when you pull it apart it isn't necessarily so. I agree with the others, if I had been called a name then I would have at least muttered something in my head and this battling for the sake of it over something trivial has done damage to your ds. So called professionals need to get a grib and forget about power struggles, teaching is about education not one up manship! Hope you get it all sorted Carrie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asereht Report post Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) Well the unit haven't called very caring aren't they ....NOT. His primary care worker who is also head of the unit hasn't even called him/me to see how he is ( which is very upset as he still can't understand what he did wrong). He went into the unit early oct and had a great careworker asigned to him, but two weeks before xmas she dropped the bombshell she was leaving and things have not been the same for him since. Anytime he had a problem ,she would deal with it and although they didn't always agree ,if he had a problem and was at home, she would call him. I am so annoyed now 4:15 pm The careworker just called. She is not prepared to end it like this and said he has had punishment enough by his 2 day absence.She has spoken to the teacher involved and I am to bring him in in the morning and careworker will have a quick word then he can go off to class for a fresh start. He only has a short time left at the unit . He is happy enough to go back once he doesn't need to apoligize. He won't get his explaination of why he was put out ....but hey I suppose you can't win 'em all! Thanks again for all the advice and replies . You're all great , Theresa Edited February 2, 2006 by asereht Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tez Report post Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) I can understand your anger. Perhaps now is the time to put your concerns about the whole handling of this situation in writing. Things have an uncanny knack of being twisted and used against you if your side of events isn't clearly documented. Why don't you ask them just what they intend to do to sort this situation out because your son is currently not being educated, he's not going to apologise and he's been told not to come back into the unit until he does, if your understanding of this is correct you would consider this to be an illegal exclusion. The behaviour was as a result of his disability and not within his control, the matter now needs sorting by the unit. Have a look at Phasmid's pinned thread on unlawful exclusions here. Edited February 2, 2006 by Tez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asereht Report post Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) Thanks Tez, Think I was posting when you were, but I would have followed your advice if they hadn't called by first thing tomorrow morning, so THANKYOU, <'> <'> Edited February 2, 2006 by asereht Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tez Report post Posted February 2, 2006 Glad that they've seen sense and are sorting it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asereht Report post Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) Hi all, My son went back today and they welcomed him back as if nothing had happened. They may have learned something from this, as in how to deal with kids with AS. However I will be keeping a closer eye on things. Also from now on I won't be taking a back seat in decisions and assuming that they know how to deal with him ,just because they are professional. Thanks for the advice, Theresa Edited February 3, 2006 by asereht Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justamom Report post Posted February 3, 2006 Hi theresa, Also from now on I won't be taking a back seat in decisions and assuming that they know how to deal with him ,just because they are professional. Could not have put any better myself. justamom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reuby2 Report post Posted February 3, 2006 Hi Theresa, I'm glad that someone intervened in this stalemate situation.Hope your son feels a bit better now. <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
