high schools (again!)

[witsend]

Hi have posted a few times over the past few months on this topic, but still feel unsure about what would be the best high school for my son (he will go in Sept). Having considered what i thought were all my options I had settled on local mainstream comp but with quite a few reservations, I have named this school on the form and at last statement review chap from LEA agreed it was a good choice.

However since then my sons behviour and stress levels have fluctuated and he is now seeing CAMHS. A couple of weeks ago I spoke with the head who said she felt this high school wasn't right for son and in light of his recent meltdowns and stress re school I too am questioning whether I've done the right thing.

I spoke to LEA guy too and flagged up my concerns and whilst he listened he said he though we should go ahead with mainstream school choice and see how it goes......so I thought that was OK but now.............

have found out about another special (EBD) school within travelling distance (just) which is for boys has a total number of 70 pupils 50 of whom are boarders. Having looked at this school prospectus have to say I'm impressed and feel it may just be the right place for my son, I had previously dismissed it 'cos thought you had to pay and no professionals have mentioned it to me at all (despite quite a lot of the kids who go there having ASD's ).

Anyway now don't know what to do!! Feel confused all over again.

Think I will go and visit this school, but then what if I really think it is the best place for D? Is it too late to change my choice? And do you think I'll have a real battle to get him in, with the LEA wanting him to try mainstream?

I know many of your kids go to special schools and would be grateful for the benefit of your experiances. For those of you whose kids have tried mainstream and then gone on to special schools has this been a good move for them?

Sorry do feel like I'm going on and on about this and going round in circles but I feel so ###### lost as what to do for the best and I so want to make the right choice, I know none of us are clairvoyant but any guidance at all would be appreciated. Am a single parent so don't have a partner to discuss this with and it's all starting to drive me a bit mad again (not that you'd notice any differance!

Cheers

Luv Witsend.

[jen]

The LEA normally come back to parents to tell them which school they have been given for there special needs child. Howeve, there are then parents who do not agree and sometimes it has to go to tribunal.

 

I would contact the school which you have named and inform them that your child has deteriated and how would they cope with him.

 

Some schools are very good and say they will not be able to cope then you have additional information you could use to get the school you want.

 

I would take your childs statement with you and ask the school how they are going to meet your childs needs but his changing needs.

 

Also go and visit the other school and ask the same questions then you may be able to make a clearer decision. All the LEA is interested is getting children transfered to a normal school because it is cheaper so go by what you think. You could also ask your ed psy what he/she thinks

 

Jen

[Suze]

Hi Witsend.........my boy goes to HS in sept.Luckily he has at place at a highschool in their ASD resource unit.He,ll get a taxi which was a concern but the journey is about 30 mins in morning traffic.I would go and see this EBD school, you won,t know till you get there wether the atmosphere is right for your son, I,d take him too so he gets a feel for it.It isn,t too late to change schools as long as everyone agrees it,s the right move it would go to a panel again.Do any local HS have any kind of resourced unit , even for EBD, MLD, this would give your son a cushion if he went to one , just another option. But if things have got worse with behaviour and stress I think I,d look round as many schools as pos again see what the options are.My local ASD OUTREACH TEAM helped me ....do you have something similar, maybe an ED physch could advise they must know the best school for ASD kids in their borough.Best OF lUCK.

[witsend]

Jen and Suze thanks for your replies, Jen I think you're right about contacting the so far chosen school and asking them how they would cope, thanks for that, the head at sons present school said they may not want to talk to me until April when places are allocated, but in this case I think I will contact them earlier and see what they say. Also interesting what you say about LEA wanting to send them to wherever is cheapest which I suspected but so confused about asll the funding issues wasn't sure of .

Suze hi - hope things are going well for you and yours at the mo - the HS son is down for don't have such a unit but have said they can support his needs when I went to look round but like I say things have changed a bit since then. Am not in touch with an outreach team but will try to find out if there is one, am seeing ed psych next month so will talk to him about it also.

Thanks again - you've helped some already - cheers

Luv Witsend.

[phasmid]

Witsend I think you're being up-front and honest with everyone over this - including,most importantly, yourself. If you believe that your son isn't going to cope with mainstream come September you'd be wrong not to look at alternatives. The LEA should have identified this school to you as a part of the statementing process (if it is within their area). Don't forget if you can find out that they are, or have, funded places here in the past it will strengthen your case if that becomes your prefered option!!

 

I would question the thoughts of your sons current head that the prospective school won't talk to you until the places are allocated. Phone them and ask to visit. I'd be surprised if they say no! If you decide to go for the special school and the LEA refuse to name it then you are likely to have to go through an appeal process to get it - possibly SENDIST. But take this one step at a time. Start with looking at the EBD school and talking to them and then talk to the named school, if possible have your son visit as well (but go alone the first time). Once you have a feel for the two go from there.

 

It's worth taking the time to get this right.

 

HTH

[LKS]

Hi witsend really feel for you on this one <'> I'm sure someone will correct me if I' wrong but shouldn't you be getting a copy of the proposed ammended statement by the 15th February. (IPSEA advised me of this) if thats the case the mainstream that the LEA want you to go for will already be named, so I can't see why they would not wish to talk to you. They surely will already have been approached by the LEA to discuss it there were any objections to their school being named. I'm not surprised that the LEA would want you to choose the mainstream option as it must be less expensive for them.I hope you get some more advice from everyone.

[witsend]

Hi again -

Phasmid - this school is apparently in our LEA area and so presume they have funded other kids there in the past - that's why I'm so naffed off no one mentioned it in the previous discussions we had. I think you're right that the head of the local HS should see me to hear my concerns so I will be ringing him next week, if he doesn't want to see me 'til places are allocate then I guess that won't be a good sign anyway eh?

So far LEA sem v keen for my son to try mainstream which in one way is fair enough,but I just have this awful sinking feeling it wont work out then there will be more upheaval in changing schools!

But then I just don't know maybe he should try mainstream first

I'm glad you said go and see the special school on my own first i thought that would be best but wasn't sure whether to take son too, but then if he loves it and we can't get a place or it osn't right for him that would be harder. Don't know what SENDIST is but think maybe I will in time!

LKS - yes you're right I should be getting statement naming school soon so yes theysurely should be prepared to talk to me - didn't think of that thanks.

Thanks again all of you

Luv Witsend.

[Kazzen161]

Is the special school an LEA one or an independent one? If it is independent, it woudl be unlikely for the LEA to mention it. Never rely on the LEA to give you all appropriate information. They may argue that it is for children with EBD, not AS.

 

If your son did go to the mainstream and it failed, would there be any places available at the other school then? (as they obviously try to fill all places in Sept).

 

If it is an independent school it is not necessarily so that they fund other children there - ask the school. The school will probably be able to give you some idea of what your LEA is like.

 

SENDIST is an appeals tribunal - basically, where you can ask a panel to decide between what the LEA is suggesting, and what you think is appropriate.

 

I am not sure what the situation woudl be if the LEA name the school you have expressed a preference for, and then you want to change it. I shoudl check with IPSEA whether you need to make the LEA aware that you may wish to change your preference before they issue the statment.

 

Karen

[Debs]

Hi Witsend

I came across this site 15 minutes ago and read your post, I understood completely your dilemma and had to register straight away so that I could reply to you!!!

Although my AS son is only in year 5 I have already looked at 2 schools for him and have another 2 to look at. One school is a local Special school with an ASD unit and recommended by the LEA the other 3 are out of county Asperger specific independent schools. The reason that I am looking so early is that my son is already in an out of county residential EBD school after mainstream spectacularly failed him at the age of 6/7yrs. I know that as my son has made great leaps forward in terms of understanding his AS and controlling his reactions to situations that the LEA believe that he is "cured"!! I know that by being in a supportive environment where his needs are fully understood, in a classroom with only 5 other children, where my son's social and communication needs are supported and encouraged is the only reason that he has succeeded (and of course with the undying devotion of his indulgent mother ). When my son was in mainstream and it wasn't working for him he was extremely unhappy, he became very,very anxious, depressed and his behaviour became'challenging', he lost his self-confidence and we are still constantly working on it although it is much better.

I'm sorry I don't seem to be answering your question but what I'm trying to say is that when the LEA officer tells you to give this mainstream school a go he/she isn't interested in the psychological effect it could have on your son. I would go with your gut feeling on this one - you know your son and his needs best.

Good Luck

Debs

[witsend]

Hi - Kazz the special school is run be the local county council and admisssion is via refferal from the special educational needs dept. The e mail they sent me says each child must have a statement for emotional social and behavioural difficulties. Thanks for explaining SENDIST. i have already made LEA aware of the chnges in my sons behaviour etc but this was via a phone call - do you think I should back this up in writing??

Dens - thank you for taking the time to register and post - appreciate it. I'm glad things are going well for your son, and you are definately right to be looking at HS provision now - wish I'd started a bit earlier myself. All your posts have made me realise the LEA are not necessarily putting my sons needs first - guess I was being a bit naive imagining they would eh?

Raedy now to start tackling this from all angles next week . Will keep you posted, thanks again you're all fab

Luv Witsend.

[phasmid]

Hi witsend. The LEA have played a blinder here! If the school your talking about is run by the local council the LEA are going to know all about the school - They run it! You should have been told about it by them as a part of the statementing process. You are entitled to take this chool into consideration when it comes to naming the school in the statement, you can only do that if they have told you about it!

 

I am afraid nearly every LEA out there is driven by its budget. That is therefore the first consideration in their minds - not what is best for the child alone, but what is best for the budget and the child, which is illegal as a statment must be drawn up using the criteria of what the child needs and not what they can supply because of the lack of funds. Nor is funding an issue that you have to consider, that is their problem. To be fair they do try and strike a balance, the problem is they don't always get it right.

 

I advise you to do a few things:

1. Contact IPSEA and ask them to advise you further.
2. Contact the school and arrange a visit.
3. Ask the LEA - pointedly - why you were not told about this school?

If your son's needs have changed then you can ask for the statement to be re-written to reflect this. Don't let them fob you off.

[phasmid]

Oh...all correspondance in writting from this point on. Phone cals from them - take notes and write them up straight after and send them a letter along the lines of :

 

Dear XXXX,

 

further to our telephone conversation of xx/xx/xxxx I would just like to confirm the following points we disscused...

 

If they do not dispute this letter it will be enough to count as a true reflection of what took place (give them a working week to respond).

 

HTH

[witsend]

Thanks Phasmid - interesting stuff! I do know that this school in its prospectus says all pupils admitted must have a statement of educational/behavioural difficulties - my sons statement comes under the ASD part. Do you think it will need to be changed in order for him to gain admission to this school and do you tink this is why the LEA did not tell me about it? I'm a bit confused because my son obviously does have educational and behavioural difficulties but they are all part of his dyslexia, dyspraxia, ASD.

Luv Witsend.

[phasmid]

If your son has a statement it will be because his problems are causing him problems with his education. The LEA may well use the excuse that his statement is ASD driven but I would say that it fits! Alas, I don't make the decisions! This is why I suggest you need to talk to IPSEA. They will have deat with similar things to this before and will be better placed than me to guide you.

[bid]

Hi Witsend

 

My son, who will be 17 this summer, was in mainstream school for 10 years.

 

He finally had a severe breakdown this time two years ago, as he couldn't 'cope' anymore, despite having been on heavy-duty meds since he was 8 to enable him to 'cope'

 

He came out of school on mental health grounds, I took him off all his meds and started the Statementing process.

 

I was extremely lucky to have a brilliant EP from the LEA and a super consultant, plus a supportive SENCO from his mainstream school. Against all the 'official' advice (Parent Partnership, etc) we got his Statement, and a place at an independent residential special school for AS.

 

We were extremely lucky, because from him coming out of school and actually starting at his special school was only 6 months...I still don't know why it happened for us

 

He has been absolutely transformed since he went to his special school...it's as though he's finally been given the environment to be 'himself' for the first time ever He went from a lad who had severely regressed within his autism during his breakdown, to a lad who has no need for any meds, has taken 2 GCSEs so far with the rest this summer, and is actually planning to do 'A' levels at the special college he will be going to in September, with the aim (at the moment! ) of going for uni after that!

 

So...for him, going from a mainstream school to a special school for AS has been the best thing that has ever happened to him...

 

You have nothing to lose, and potentially everything to gain if you go for it!!

 

Good luck, I know how scary and overwhelming it all seems <'>

 

Bid

[witsend]

Bid - <'> - thank you. I am feeling more and more my son would benefit from a special school, he is a special boy. Feeling a bit emotional now, not sure why, really good to hear your positive story. Might go off now and have a good then start all the wheels in motion tomorrow.

Luv Witsend.

[Kazzen161]

Some EBD schools are only suitable for children with EBD, some can meet the needs of children with AS too. You need to check out the school carefully.

 

Get advice from IPSEA re: the changing needs/school preference.

 

Karen

[julieann]

Hi have posted a few times over the past few months on this topic, but still feel unsure about what would be the best high school for my son (he will go in Sept). Having considered what i thought were all my options I had settled on local mainstream comp but with quite a few reservations, I have named this school on the form and at last statement review chap from LEA agreed it was a good choice.

However since then my sons behviour and stress levels have fluctuated and he is now seeing CAMHS. A couple of weeks ago I spoke with the head who said she felt this high school wasn't right for son and in light of his recent meltdowns and stress re school I too am questioning whether I've done the right thing.

I spoke to LEA guy too and flagged up my concerns and whilst he listened he said he though we should go ahead with mainstream school choice and see how it goes......so I thought that was OK but now.............

have found out about another special (EBD) school within travelling distance (just) which is for boys has a total number of 70 pupils 50 of whom are boarders. Having looked at this school prospectus have to say I'm impressed and feel it may just be the right place for my son, I had previously dismissed it 'cos thought you had to pay and no professionals have mentioned it to me at all (despite quite a lot of the kids who go there having ASD's ).

Anyway now don't know what to do!! Feel confused all over again.

Think I will go and visit this school, but then what if I really think it is the best place for D? Is it too late to change my choice? And do you think I'll have a real battle to get him in, with the LEA wanting him to try mainstream?

I know many of your kids go to special schools and would be grateful for the benefit of your experiances. For those of you whose kids have tried mainstream and then gone on to special schools has this been a good move for them?

Sorry do feel like I'm going on and on about this and going round in circles but I feel so ###### lost as what to do for the best and I so want to make the right choice, I know none of us are clairvoyant but any guidance at all would be appreciated. Am a single parent so don't have a partner to discuss this with and it's all starting to drive me a bit mad again (not that you'd notice any differance!

Cheers

Luv Witsend.

[julieann]

Hi Witsend,

I am at my witsend trying to reply to your topic I seem to have sent your letter back to you.

 

I found this advise on the DfEE website:-

 

" To date the most effective way of helping a child with ASD is through appropriate education.What kind of education depends on the individual child, their level of general intelligence and their level of language and behaviour.

 

For a child with ASD but without learning difficulties and with few behaviour problems, mainstream school with support may be most suitable.The emphasis here should be on "support". It is essential that the support worker understands what the child needs help them with both social (playground) and class situations. It is important that the help is appropriate and enables the child to retain and foster a sense of self-esteem.

 

It is likely that a child with ASD and learning/communication difficulties would find it difficult and stressful to try to cope with the demands of mainstream school.

Instead, the structured day of a special school geared to the needs of children with ASD would provide an environment more likely to enable the child to reach their potential. Such schools use social skills and language/communication programmes tailored to the individual needs of each child.

 

Whether in mainstream or special school, the child with ASD will usually need a Statement of Special Educational Need in order to obtain the kind of support they need.The statement allows the funding of the type of educational placement or support considered appropriate to allow the child to access the national curriculum and benefit from a school education".

 

Hope this is helpful Julieann.

[witsend]

Hi just a little update here - spoke to LEA guy today re all this. I asked him why he had not told me about the special school and (as anticipated) he said it did not seem appropriate for my son from what he knew about him at the last reveiw, which is sort of fair enough because sons behaviour/stress actually has increased only since this reveiw. He then said this special school is oversubscribed to and is full for this year. And that he still doubts it would be best place for my son as a lot of the kids there have very challenging and dangerous behaviours and would not be good peer group for my son !

Anyway he said he isn't closing the door, but will arrange a meeting with relevant people from HS already named on sons statement to clarify his needs and ensure a smooth transition. He will also listen to any new evidence at this meeting, so I guess that's fair enough.

I told him I was going to talk to head at named HS to ensure he's fully aware of my sons probs, and he was fine about that, also said I was going to look round the special school anyway so I can decide what's best for my son! don't think he was too happy about that!

Anyway gotta go now, will no doubt be updating you again, thanks for all the support and good ideas

luv Witsend.

[phasmid]

At least they're listening now, They may not like what they're hearing much but tough! You have your son's best interests at heart and that's what matters,

[Debs]

Hiya Witsend

Glad you seem to be a bit more positive about things today. It's always better when you have some support from people that have been there. I was also told that my son would pick up behaviours from the children at his school who have EBD and challenging behaviours - I thought that this was weird as he has some pretty significant challenging behaviours himself! However I have to say that this has proved to be right, although I still maintain that it is the best school for him at the moment and it is helping hin to find better ways to manage his responses to situations.

Suprisingly he finds the behaviours of the other children very difficult to deal with and he can get very distressed by them, he even comments to me on the other children's behaviour but can't see that at times he is worse!!

I am looking for an Aspergers specific school for his secondary placement as I do believe quite strongly that dealing with behaviours that stem from AS is very different to dealing with behaviours that stem from EBD.

Only by going to look at the school and asking the right questions can you decide if its the best option for your son.

Good Luck

[LKS]

Hi witsend sounds OK. I wonder if you had received a list of all schools you would have realised about this other school. As it states on the IPSEA website a letter sent to all Dof E's in Nov. 2005

 

 

 

Naming a school in a child's statement

Recent correspondence we have received has highlighted some misunderstandings about the processes to be followed prior to naming a school in Part 4 of a statement. I hope the following will clarify the position.

Where a local authority, having made a first statutory assessment of a child or at the time of amending a statement, sends a copy of a proposed statement or a proposed amended statement or a copy of the existing statement and an amendment notice to the parent, the written notice which must accompany these documents must contain the information as specified in Schedule 1 to the Education (Special Educational Needs) (England) (Consolidation) Regulations 2001, by virtue of regulations 14 and 15 respectively of those Regulations (a copy of which is to be found in the back of the SEN Code of Practice 2001).

This information must include a list of all primary or secondary schools, as appropriate. This list should include all maintained schools (including special schools) within the area and all non-maintained special schools approved by the Secretary of State under section 342 of the Education Act 1996 and all independent schools approved by the Secretary of State under section 347 of the Act.

Maintained schools

Parents must be invited to name the maintained school they would like their child to attend. Where a parent expresses a preference for a particular maintained school (mainstream or special school), the local authority must consult the school concerned, and in the case of a school maintained by another authority that local authority as well. When consulting, the Authority must send a copy of the proposed statement, amended statement, or existing statement and an amendment notice. In all cases the appendices to the statement must be included. As part of the consultation process the Authority should write to the school and other authority to ask them whether, in their opinion:

? the school is unsuitable to the child's age, ability or aptitude or to his special educational needs;

? the child's attendance would be incompatible with the efficient education of the children with whom he would be educated, or

? the child's attendance would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

These criteria are set out in paragraph 3(3) of Schedule 27 to the Education Act 1996.

If the school or local authority opposes the naming of the parent's preferred school on any of the grounds specified above, the "home" authority should consider very carefully their reasons for doing so, before deciding whether or not to name the school, not least because once a local authority names a particular maintained school in a child's statement, that school must admit

[Kazzen161]

Although the special school is full, as it is an LEA school, a Triunal could still force them to take your son (up to a certain % over it's PAN), so it is worth going to see it.

 

Karen