When a child gets a statement

[Mother in Need]

When a child gets a statement, does the help from SA+ get withdrawn?

 

We have great news, it seems that my son will be awarded a statement with 15 hours of 1-2-1! And, for these hours to start immediately, so no waiting for the statement to be finalised (I haven't received the draft yet even), to allow my son to get back to school. This is great news, and has completely mind-boggled PP who has said from the beginning he wouldn't get one and we would have to go to tribunal.

 

But, when I asked school what would happen the other 15 hours he is to be in school, there was silence. Then when I said that as school had been putting in 16 hours (well, supposedly anyway, not 1-2-1 nor with any knowledge and understanding whatsoever, but at times there was someone else in the classroom), that that would cover the whole week.

That was definitely not to be, and they have made it clear that those 16 hours will be no more.

 

Surely this can't be right? I thought that anything the school had implemented at SA+ was to be continued fully, even when not mentioned in the statement?

[Tez]

Hi MIN,

 

Sounds like good news. I think you will need to ask your LEA exactly what they are proposing but our LEA stipulate that the first 15 hours of 1:1 support comes from the school's budget and then the rest they fund additionally. As you say our LEA insists that the support provided at School Action+ continues to be provided by the school, they fund the extras. So A's requires him to have full time 1:1 support when in a mainstream setting but the LEA will only fund 15 hours of it the balance has to come from the school's budget.

 

You will need to look at the statement very carefully when it is issued to ensure that it is written in such a way as to ensure the full time 1:1 support regardless of who funds it.

[LKS]

MIN on both my childrens statements it says ***** to receive 15 hours support in addition to what the school provide at SA+ (or in dd's case 25 hours support in addition to what is provided at SA+) At all the review meetings I've ever been to the LEA have refused to say what they expect the school to provide at SA+ they say all schools are different and will all have different ways of meeting children's needs. I've always thought that this should be tightened up in statements and at least the LEA should state the minimum support they expect at SA+. Quite frankly if your son was getting 16 hours before the statement to say 15 hours seems ludicrous. Unless of course it says 15 hours of 1:1 designated L.S.A. support

[UltraMum]

Our LEA say that the statemented hours are in addition to the hours the school puts in at SA+ - but they have written the schools hours in as part of his statement - they give 10 and then the school gives 5 (which is roughly what he should have been getting at SA+ according to the LEA, although the school had only put in 2 hours per week so that caused a bit of a rumpus at the time!)

[Kazzen161]

As far as I know the provision stated in the statement is the total amount that has to be provided (who funds it is up to the school and the LEA), so unless it states 15+16, then I woudl guess 15 is all that needs to be provided.

 

Karen

[call me jaded]

You definitely need the total hours support written into the statement, plus anything else that he currently gets. Then is it's not provided you have a legally binding document. Take nothing on trust.

[jen]

The LEA can ask the school to provide eg 5 hours of a 15 hour LSA support as stated in the statement. However the school can refuse to provide eg 5 hours then the LEA have to fund the whole statement. This is on the IPSEA website because I printed it out for my childs headmistress a few weeks ago can not find it at the moment but have found the following.

 

 

These duties have been tested extensively in the Courts. In particular, in R. v Secretary of State for Education and Science Ex Parte E (1992) 1FLR277, the Court of Appeal confirmed that where a child requires a statement, all of the provision required to meet a child?s special educational needs must be set out in that statement. Whilst that case was concerned with the Education Act 1981 (a precursor of the current legislation contained in Part IV of the Education Act 1996), and whilst the case was also principally concerned with whether or not provision which could be made by the school should also be set out in a statement (it should) the case, by implication, also underscores the point that provision must be specified and quantified, otherwise the intention of the judgement would be defeated.

 

 

Jen

[helenl53]

My rule of thumb is :-

 

Need - provision to meet that need- delivered by whom - for how long - how often

 

So for instance if there was numeracy difficulties, literacy difficulties and speech and language difficulties, I would expect somthing like

 

J has Numeracy diff - he needs add& subtract programme - deliverd by TA under guidance of classteacher - for 5 hours per week - delivered on a daily basis

 

Same for literacy - 5 hours per week x delivered on a daily basis

 

and for such specialisms as S&L - programmes delivered by TA under supervision of SLT. - 5 hours per week - 3 of those hours to be dedicated to J and 2 hours in Group situation.

 

You also need to have it built into the statement, how often a specialist such as SLT will see the child and the school. For example, J's SLT is to set aside 5 hours at the beginning of each term to observe J, to devise a programme for his SLT, and then to model this to the school.

 

I know this looks a bit complicated - but you almost need it to be idiot proof. If it is not precise and specific, then it will be open to abuse.

Edited March 2, 2006 by helenl53

[Mother in Need]

MIN on both my childrens statements it says ***** to receive 15 hours support in addition to what the school provide at SA+ (or in dd's case 25 hours support in addition to what is provided at SA+) At all the review meetings I've ever been to the LEA have refused to say what they expect the school to provide at SA+ they say all schools are different and will all have different ways of meeting children's needs. I've always thought that this should be tightened up in statements and at least the LEA should state the minimum support they expect at SA+.

I hope that they'll say that than, in addition to SA+, though school could suddenly say they were giving him less than what they have been saying all along (which would be more plausible unfortunately). Fingers crossed.

 

Quite frankly if your son was getting 16 hours before the statement to say 15 hours seems ludicrous. Unless of course it says 15 hours of 1:1 designated L.S.A. support

 

I actually have the feeling it will do! But that doesnt mean I want to loose those 16 hours altogether as those are exactly the missing hours, and this designated LSA really knows her stuff and she'll organise those others into actually becoming usefull :

 

And yes Jen, It would make everyone's life's so much easier if everything was written out and CLEAR.

 

So am I right that what happens re this query depends on in which county we are?

[jen]

all statements should be written as the tool kit and under the SEN code of practice it does not matter what county you are in.

 

 

Jen

[call me jaded]

The problem is that goalposts change and the school could change what it generally provides at SA+. If it's in the statement at least they can't change it without a fight.

[Mother in Need]

So am I right that what happens re this query depends on in which county we are?

With this I meant, regarding what happens to the provision given on SA+. Isn't it always said that a school has to do everything possible to provide for a child's needs on SA+ level? So it seems weird to me that all this provision then suddenly disappears on receiving a statement, unless it has been specifically mentioned in that statement.

In our case, the only provision they gave were those 16 hours classroom support; they didn't work, BUT now that he has his own designated support for 15 hours, and this woman is really good with lots of experience with ASD, she will definitely make those other hours work for him as much as she can. BUT this is possible only if he keeps those hours...

Sorry, I don't want to seem greedy here or anything, but if this re-integration doesn't work, then it seems that his education will come to a complete stop for life. And as he is only 12, and basically hasn't had any this school year so far...

The 1-2-1 is great, and she'll do what she can. But if she is there only for half the time, what will happen in the other half, especially in the first few months, is going to be just as vital. She suggested yesterday for him to only be in school for those 15 hours.

[Mother in Need]

Still haven't received any acknowledgement from the LEA, nor the proposed statement, but I suppose that will take them a few weeks to put together, or do they use blanket statements and just individualise them a bit?

[phasmid]

They are certainly NOT supposed to use blanket stataments and adapt them. Just see that infamous letter on the IPSEA website to back that up!

Edited March 5, 2006 by phasmid

[Hectorshouse]

Unfortunately this does happen, my last LEA used the same wording and blanket statements just individualising them for each child. This was confirmed to me by my PPS lady who said that T's statement was pretty much standard issue ...

 

HHxx

[Mother in Need]

Ouch, HH, as you know that's my LEA................ let's hope they're going to surprise us, but I don't mind comparing notes once I've got the draft, if that's ok with you, just to make sure...