Difficult bedtimes, please help

[LizK]

Ideas and suggestions needed please .

 

DS1 (4ys) goes to bed around 8-8.15pm. He used to play in bed for about 10mins before light off and him falling asleep. Over recent months the time between going to bed and him actually going to sleep is getting longer and longer and he gets out of bed numerous times to either go to the loo or wander downstairs to get a toy. He just can't seem to wind down quickly anymore. He gets overly involved in acting out long and elaborate episodes from his favourite TV programmes currently Come Outside and gets very upset if I turn his light off half way through this. Even if that's ok he'll be in and out of bed like a jumping bean. We've not changed his bedtime routine, in fact his bath seems to wake him up as he can run around the house like a loon afterwards and he's on an additive free diet so not that either. I thought starting school was supposed to tire them out but it's made no difference to Adam .

 

Usually once he goes to sleep he'll sleep 10 hours but last night he didn't go to sleep until gone 10pm and was up just after 7am which sometimes happens. He needs more sleep that this as he's progressively getting tired and irritable in the day like he was today but I can still hear him awake in bed now. In times previously he'd have been sparko but 8.30pm. Read him the riot act tonight, not sure if it's the right thing to do but just got so sick of it and he's not got out of bed again .

 

I don't know whether it is a coincidence but he's started waking up in the night too. He didn't sleep through until he was well over two and we're usually up with him once or twice a week but since he started school it's been more like four times a week and the last week it has been every night unless I'm succumbed to giving him piriton. He wakes in complete distress, seems to get stuck in some loop that we can't get him out of and it takes ages for him to settle down again. He's got obsessed with going to the loo and will repeatedly ask to do a wee saying it's coming out (he's stil in pullups) despite doing very little when he goes. He did wake up a few weeks back with his bed completely saturated as he'd outweed his pullup and he was very upset so whether that's bothering him at night I don't know. As I say it's also been since starting school so wonder if that's a factor in the night waking though he's really enjoying school but who knows

 

I know after a sleep deprived first two years we've been very lucky with Adam's sleep since but am getting a bit jittery that things are going down hill and he's developing the ASD sleep problems

 

I don't know whether the difficult bedtimes and waking at night are related, whether they are an ASD or normal four year old thing or what to do about them. I'd appreciate any suggestions to make bedtime easier and help him wind down and will just keep fingers crossed the night waking is a phase . It's tiring though esepcially as my 20mth old still wakes some nights and I tend to become anxious and panicky when I get sleep deprived and don't want to head down that path again .

 

Liz x

[Lynden]

Hiya Liz

 

Re the four year old bit - Leona is a nightmare to get to bed, she's in and out a dozen times, needs to wee, needs a drink, not tired etc etc and its often gone 10 before she's finally asleep and usually with a lot of threats and I know a few other friends are similar with their kids at the moment. Once she is asleep though thats her so not sure re the night wakings. It isn't enough sleep for her either though because she is grumpy/whiny when she has a late bedtime.

 

I hope you get it sorted. We're becoming resigned to the fact Logan may never sleep through more than once a fortnight or something!

 

Lynne x

[curra]

Liz,

 

My son was just the same for 11 years. I don't know how I survived so many sleepless nights or waking 2 or 3 times in the middle of the night. The only thing that has helped is Melatonin. Have you considered it as a solution?

 

Curra

[lotty]

my 9 year old goes to bed at 9pm, i have to go in at 9.30, then 10, then 10.20 for a warning, then 11pm tuck him in. he doses of then or between 11.30 and 12,he gets up at 6.30 my middle one 8, goes to bed at 8.15, asleep by 9, but then up at 11, 1, 2.30, 4 sleepwalkig, i have to take him to the loo twice, etc.he cant get up in the morning. then a 1 year old, who still feeds in the night....so night times quite busy really and me i am nackered

[justamom]

I must admit that my son was a nightmare for sleeping from birth, he would not settle and in the end to

get some sleep i put him in the bed with me, not the best soloution to the problem coz it took us

10years to get him to stay in his own bed... He used to wake up 3/4 times a night (thats still in my bed) but as he has gotten older he has settled down more, he does still go to bed very late but when asleep he seems to stay asleep. So hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel....

[Elanor]

Hi Liz

 

Perhaps there's a connection with this problem, and the fact that your son has started school.

 

He's now getting more stimulation, and also pressure and perhaps stress, than he's been used to - and he's probably taking longer to 'come down' than you're used to.

 

You could try adjusting his bedtime routine - it might help to start earlier and put more structure into it. You could also work on an incentive programme to reward him for responding well to his routine, and for staying in bed and trying hard, even if he can't actually get off to sleep as early as you like. Staying positive is really important, and a reward scheme promotes this. It can take a child with AS a long time to respond to this sort of thing, but it's worth persevering, and giving then that extra time.

 

Hope this helps

 

Elanor

[Paula]

My son is 12 years old and will not go up to bed untill we go up to bed.Weve just resigned ourselves to this.Its easier than constantly going up to him and listening to him trundle around upstaires.

 

Even when he goes to bed he rattles around with his vast and i mean vast collection of toy cars and likes to line them up in neat patterns on his window ledge.This can go on for houres .Because he doesnt leave his bedroom we just let him get on with it.Its obviously something he has to do.

 

 

I was wondering wether youre child has started to have dreams or nightmares and maybe doesnt understand these type of thing and is getting anxious about it and cant explaine.

[DaisyFulkirk]

He's got obsessed with going to the loo and will repeatedly ask to do a wee saying it's coming out (he's stil in pullups) despite doing very little when he goes. He did wake up a few weeks back with his bed completely saturated as he'd outweed his pullup and he was very upset so whether that's bothering him at night I don't know.

 

 

Um, it really probably ISN'T this but I know that if you have got a urinary tract infection it makes you feel like you're bursting for the loo all the time but if you go there's only a tiny bit of wee in there... it might be quite a good idea to establish that this isn't the problem cos if it does turn out to be that then it will be made better quite easily!

[Martian Martian]

Hey Liz, I agree with curra on this - try the melatonin for a bit and see if it helps regulate his sleep patterns.

 

Wee Tom was going down at about 8pm for a mini-sleep. He would get back up at midnight or 1am

for 2 or 3 hours, eventually going back to sleep for another four hours. Added to this we had a new

baby, and a big brother that preferred to sleep in our bed. A total killer!

 

One day we had an appointment with the paediatrician - and we must have looked like we'd been

sleeping in a tent for a week because without us broaching the subject he said, 'And how is his sleep?'

 

We offloaded our woes and he gave us a prescription for melatonin. We tried it for about ten days

and realised that Tom's sleep, if anything, was WORSE!!

 

So we stopped, and - miracle of miracles - he immediately slept through the night (well, until 6am).

 

That was about four months ago, and he's still very good - touch wood.

 

But do try the melatonin, you've got nothing to lose.

[LizK]

Thanks everyone. Sods law he slept through last night for the first time in a while but my 20mth old decided to wake up five times instead I'm sure they are in cahoots with each other!

 

Melatoninis a good sugestion though thought it was for worse sleep problems than this. Will discuss with the paed at our appointment next month if things are getting better

 

Perhaps there's a connection with this problem, and the fact that your son has started school.

 

He's now getting more stimulation, and also pressure and perhaps stress, than he's been used to - and he's probably taking longer to 'come down' than you're used to.

 

You could try adjusting his bedtime routine - it might help to start earlier and put more structure into it. You could also work on an incentive programme to reward him for responding well to his routine, and for staying in bed and trying hard, even if he can't actually get off to sleep as early as you like. Staying positive is really important, and a reward scheme promotes this. It can take a child with AS a long time to respond to this sort of thing, but it's worth persevering, and giving then that extra time.

 

Elanor, I had wondered about the link with school though in fairness the problems going to bed have been coming on before then. The night waking definitely coincides and the SALT I discussed this with said it sounded like there was an anxiety component. Think the night waking too is also partly due to him developings greater awareness of his bladder being full so waking to go to the loo but not being able to resettle afterwards. Thanks for the suggestions

 

Probably a daft idea but his sleep also got worse when we cut casein out of his diet. His behaviour and hyperactivity has improved no end since then but my H wondered whether the opioid peptides from the casein were sedating him at night and he's waking more becasue he's no longer got them flaoting around his blood stream!

 

Lx

[LizK]

Um, it really probably ISN'T this but I know that if you have got a urinary tract infection it makes you feel like you're bursting for the loo all the time but if you go there's only a tiny bit of wee in there... it might be quite a good idea to establish that this isn't the problem cos if it does turn out to be that then it will be made better quite easily!

 

Good point! We have sent a urine sample off and your post has reminded me to phone for the results

 

Lx

[DaisyProudfoot]

I know this may seem an odd suggestion but are the lighter nights having anything to do with it? Up here in Newcastle it's not getting dark till after 10.30pm and then it's light again at around 4am - I know melatonin is supposed to help with mucked up body clocks so it may be the solution.

 

My boy's 10 and is supposed to go to bed at 9pm - usually it's closer to 11pm by the time he's dithered over this and that........and he talks all the time in his sleep, wanders round the house leaving lights on at night and gets things into his head that need to be done at the oddest of times.

 

I think he's more of a night owl, think I'll suggest a job as a night watchman when he gets older

 

Seriously though broken sleep is no laughing matter and it may be worth talking to your health visitor about it.