Handwriting issues

[llisa32]

Hi, J has an absolute hatred of 'writing' and has done since starting school. He's always preferred numbers, his handwriting is barely readable, with uneven lettering, capitols etc, and if he has to do any sort of story writing he usually only manages about a paragraph or so..and theme is usually the same. Really basic stuff.

 

From his school (main) and LSU report they both mention this as something he is trying very hard with.

 

Now..His dad (the ostrich head one) thinks that we should push J to practice all summer, so that by time he goes back to school it will have improved!

 

J hates writing so much that he put up with getting sent to his room twice today by his dad whilst there, for refusing to do it, nor did the fact that he wasn't allowed xbox or playstation make him do it either!.

 

For me his handwriting difficulties go hand in hand with the potential aspergers..and therefore I'm assuming not a quick fix over the summer hols. I asked his dad tonight what was he gonna do if his writing had not dramatically improved by time he goes back in sept, as in my mind it;s more likely that it won't have..he says he'll be fine with that as long as J has tried..

 

I haven't managed to get out of J yet what about writing he dislikes so much...I think it's prob because he knows it's messy and he hates making mistakes. But ...so...what to do????

 

I figured I'd take a more relaxed approach...and casually drop it in when he's on a good day and say lets just do one sentance...I don't particularly agree with my ex's approach...I think it's too heavy...but think we should prob be doing something??? - just not sure what

 

Any thoughts/ideas?

 

Thanks all

[David Matthew Baker]

Is he better at writing stories etc... when using a computer? Is it the handwriting that is a problem and he just gets tired due to the effort it takes to write? If you can teach him how to use information he knows to help him come up with stories and other forms of writing it might help. That way at least hopefully he could use a labtop at school or a scribe.

[llisa32]

Thanks David...I'm not sure to be honest..He does seem to struggle with the comprehension side of english lessons which they have touched upon now in year 2. He finds it difficult to read the text, and then write down what he's thinking as the response..he says 'it's just difficult and gets in a muddle!'

 

When I ask him if anythings difficult though about writing he just says no!, I just hate it!...but when we first realised he was struggling to learn to read he was exactly the same then. He got really frustrated and then woiuld not even attempt to have a go at reading anything...and basically we had to lie low on the reading front for about a month and then slowly re-introduce. His readintg has improved dramatically in the last two months, and I thought that may have iven him some added confidence to aid writing...but not so it seems.

 

Although he likes sufing ebay on the PC he still struggles to findhis way round the keyboard and he's not up for practising that either

[smiley]

Hello Lisa

 

I can identify with this one - my little cherub didn't put pen to paper for nearly two years!

 

Forcing him was totally pointless - headaches all round and got all of us no-where.

There can be quite a few reasons for not liking writing - for my son, he had never developed the pincer grasp (thumb and index finger together), and has lax muscles - so it can become quite painful. He also struggles with all the different things you need to do to get your thoughts down on paper...

 

Initially (after the star charts , reward system and 'making him' !), the school backed off completely. His 1;1 would scribe for him. Very gradually, we introduced a dictaphone. M came out with some brilliant stories and made up some wonderful songs . He was delighted to get his thoughts recorded in one form or another.

This moved onto M having lots of practice with comprehension - so he would be asked to put a story in order, or asked to explain a story just after he's read it etc. Lots of physical stuff - drama type things. Stacks of encouragement and lots of praise.

We also had some excersises from the occupational therapist (and followed a book called Speed Up)

 

Once the pressure was off, he began to write the first few words - then the first sentence........... He still struggles, and will continue to do so. But last month he wrote a gorgeous little story - ON HIS OWN!

 

I can remember wandering around the local park - and making up these really silly stories about tree fairies to encourage him (he looked at me as though i was mad, which TBH is a fair point, lol!).

 

HTH <'>

Edited July 19, 2007 by smiley

[Ian Jordan]

handwriting problems often indicate sensory integration difficulties, early intervention and assessment is approprpriate

 

eg - it could be a ign of a visual perception / hnd eye coordination problem, it could be a vestibular problem, it could be proprioceptive. you need a professional - teachers are unlikely to have anything other than a rudimentary knowledge

[zaman]

My son is just finishing year 1, and his teacher has been doing some OT exercises called 'handies and dandies' which have improved his writing beyond belief. He went into the year barely able to hold a pencil, and can now write well and at a decent size. Apparently it is quite a well known programme.

[marmalade]

Does your school stick to a set style of handwriting?

 

The Small's school insist on using the 'cursive' style, which The Small detests and refuses to even try anymore!

 

She scored very low on her handwriting, as all she really does at school is make marks, but at home where I let her write in a style that is comfy for her, she can write her name (which has 9 letters, should have called her Zoe!!!) and other short words. She even wrote "zoo" in my diary as we are off to Port Lympne soon!

 

I know she can do it, but (yet again) school seem to be standing in her way...

[Mumble]

Hi Llisa,

 

I think this is a very interesting question and one with which many people will be able to identify. I think you have some interesting replies above and suggestions to try think about - I'm particularly interested that Ian Jordan has replied - hopefully you will see why below (perhaps I really ought to think very carefully about getting myself tested). I'm going to try and separate this into two responses - myself and as a teacher (though they might get a little confused).

 

As an AS individual:

I had and have huge problems with handwriting. My handwriting now at any speed is bearly legible. I was diagnosed with dyspraxia alongside AS. For me the best ways I can explain the difficulties are:

• I have a very odd pencil grip and posture when writing - best described as a left-handed style right-handed grip - because I was made to use my right-hand as a very young child to write whereas if it has developed naturally I would probably be left handed.
• I move my whole arm rather than fingers/wrist to write - this uses a lot more energy and I tire easily.
• I push very hard with the pen/pencil - again this is tiring and painful.
• I hate seeing mistakes and mess - and this is how I interpret my writing.
• My writing is irregularly sized and floats above and sinks below the lines - because when the lines are pulsating it's rather difficult to line everything up, it physically hurts my eyes and I get very frustrated at not being able to do a simple 'skill'.
• I have immense difficulty writing and listening at the same time - basically I can hear but not process if I am trying to write - so without the support I get in college, I worry that I'm missing things if I write and can't process, or going to forget things if I process but don't write notes.
• I have found that when I have to take notes, writing on plain paper (blue coloured is even easier) helps because I'm not worrying about lines - there are no lines to distract me or to worry about whether I've written on the lines.

As a teacher:

 

People reading this might be worrying about how on earth I teach children to write if I don't do it correctly myself. Very interestingly, the answer is that because I'm a ruled based person and in short doses I can follow the rules and write 'correctly' (but very slowly) I can actually teach handwriting well. Beacuse it's not natural to me, I'm able to see more easily the difficulties children are having, and because I write slowly, it gives the children more opportunity to see exactly how to form the letters correctly.

 

I had a very interesting AS child who wouldn't write in my class. Observing him I saw him being drawn to green objects and the green pencil crayons. So I suggested he wrote with them. And he wrote. It was one of those 'am I really seeing what I'm seeing' wow type teacher moments. From then on, no he wasn't writing as much as some other children, and yes some other people thought it a bit bazare that he used green rather than a normal graphite pencil (plus I had to go round the school begging and stealing all the green pencils I could find in the correct shade) but it worked for him. Interestingly he was later assessed for specialist lenses and came back with green ones and things did start to fall into place for him. Now that could all be a coincidence, but I certainly found it interesting.

 

Writing shouldn't be the ultimate assessment target and it annoys me that some individuals are put down because their work isn't neat or thought not to be capable because they are not producing reams of cursive writing. Particularly in today's technological world, there is no excuse to be demoted for poor writing control - unless of course you're following NC levels All it does is put people off trying. And if anyone spouts the 'cursive writing makes spelling better' thing, send them over to me It's true in many cases, but not in all. Particularly in AS, where many people have good spelling because they 'see' words (I hope I've explained that ok, because it doesn't include me) cursive isn't going to help.

 

Possible ways forward:

1. Consider as Ian says getting him tested by a professional - particularly as it has already been suggested he has dyslexia and then possibly not becuase of his reading.
2. Try and ignore the school and ostrich head (I looked that one up - I like it!) - you probably know more of what your son is capable of in terms of ideas and thinking even if it isn't evident on paper. Making him practice over the summer will make him resent it more in September.
3. Remember that he's only 7. To me, Year 3 is a fantastic year where many children really flourish - but then I've seen children not 'get it' till much later on, and that's ok.
4. Possibly look at using a laptop or similar, so you have evidence of ideas if that's what the school insists on.
5. Could the school provide a scribe for some aspects (maybe a few literacy lessons a week)? Of course he would need to be able to use a scribe appropriately and many don't, but it might help.
6. As for content, there was a thread on story-writing not that long ago that might help. If I find it, I'll post a link.

Mumble

 

EDIT: Here's the link - sounds very like your issues: Imagination Problems

Edited July 19, 2007 by Mumble

[SarahSH]

HI Lisa - it's such a balancing act, isn't it! You want him to get better at it for his own sake and have to manage his ostrich dad's input aswell - but don't want to drive him over the edge with frustration and make it all worse.

 

Like some of the other repliers, I wonder whether doing it together helps - like the stories in the park.

 

How about that consequences game, where you turn over the paper after each person's drawn ( written, eventually) a bit of a story?

 

I used to read alternative pages of my son's reading book with him, and talk about it as we went along. He's 15 now, and still doesn't rush to the book shelves when he's got a spare hour, but he does read sometimes, even though the level of detail in a narrative can be confusing for him.

thank God for harry Potter.

 

Good luck

Sarah

[Viper]

My superman also hates handwriting. He is 6 and can read and spell way beyond his years but handwriting is a big issue with him. I home educate so it is not too much of a problem right now. I have left it alone for now as like you it became a real flash point in the house.

 

It did worry me though, I thought I was not giving him the right education by not making him write. But over the past few months he has decided for himself when and if he wants to write. This more relaxed aproach has produced some really great examples of what he is capable of if not under presure.

 

When we are doing workbooks, he writes until he gets fed up then I scribe for him. He tells me the answers and I write them in. In this way he is seeing me write and we still get the books done without all the trauma.

 

I have found that he will write on a whiteboard. Not sure if it's the novelty value or that the pen flows smoothly over the board or even that he can easilly wipe off any mistakes he makes, maybe all three. If you could get a piece of paper laminated (or you can buy small whiteboards), it could be used as a wipe clean surface for him to scrible on, or whatever he wants. Just leave it laying around with a whiteboard pen, maybe doodle on it yourself and see what happens. I am a great believer in a child will learn in it's own time and presure will delay them. We all know how we rebel against what we are told we "have" to do.

 

Another way is to ask him if he can write your shopping list for you. Take him to the kitchen and call out the things you need, he can write them down either on paper or the laminated sheet. Or try saying you are going to cook and need some ingredients, get him to write the list and then go out shopping. Show him how writing can be used in other ways, not just sat in a classroom with presure on him. Make it fun.

 

Sorry this is long, I just wanted to help with a few things I have found helpful, I hope they help you too.

 

 

Just found this for you It is clear on the reverse.

Edited July 19, 2007 by Viper

[baddad]

Now..His dad (the ostrich head one) thinks that we should push J to practise all summer, so that by time he goes back to school it will have improved!

 

I asked his dad tonight what was he gonna do if his writing had not dramatically improved by time he goes back in sept, as in my mind it;s more likely that it won't have..he says he'll be fine with that as long as J has tried..

 

I haven't managed to get out of J yet what about writing he dislikes so much...I think it's prob because he knows it's messy and he hates making mistakes. But ...so...what to do????

 

 

Any thoughts/ideas?

 

Thanks all

 

 

Hi Lisa -

 

I'm sorry to bring this up again, because it does seem to be becoming something of a theme after reading your posts, but I really don't see what is wrong or 'ostrich headed' about his dad's suggestion (I'm assuming by 'Ostrich headed' you mean 'buried in the sand' or 'in denial'?)

You've said yourself that you believe your son's reluctance to write stems from his dislike of the 'messy' results and mistakes, so I don't see what the problem with practising is, or why the suggestion that he do so is somehow implying that his dad is 'missing' something(?)

Hope you don't mind me pointing that out, but as one of the much smaller contingent of male posters on the forum, I do feel a need to balance some of the 'men don't understand' stuff that regularly appears

 

Now - more practical advice:

 

My son had (still has, but improving dramatically) very poor handwriting as a direct result of his poor coordination/fine motor skills, grip etc etc. He wanted to improve it (which has got to be the major consideration whatever interventions you try), and once we'd done everything we could to overcome any physical barriers (i.e. by using pencil grips, slanted writing board, making sure seat/table height was as suitable as poss) the only way that could happen was by him actually practising.

 

On a structured basis (he would do it every 'school' night and be given extra privileges/ rewards for doing so) he would write a five word sentence of his own choice five times as neatly as he could manage.

The sentence would usually be something like 'I love sonic the hedgehog', or 'Ben is the coolest - true', and I would write it out for him once with the pencil at full pressure as a 'looking guide' then repeat it 3 times lightly as a 'tracing over' exercise... Only the last two goes were entirely his own freehand.

(BTW - My own 'lazy scrawl' was upgraded to cursive script in line with school guidelines for the process, which probably helped me too! )

Advances were very rapid, and the change in his confidence about writing was amazing. The biggest problem was getting the school to work to OUR strategy - because he was always under pressure to produce quality AND quantity there, but taking in examples of what he could do (compared to the spider-scribble in his school books) and pushing for scribe support on longer pieces helped to reinforce all of that.

 

Two more 'tips'

1 - Proper angled boards cost a fortune. I made one from the top of a fold-up table I bought for about a fiver from a 'round a pound' shop. Once i'd taken the folding legs off it already had a 'runner' front and back, and I just raised one of them slightly with a couple of rubber pads. The other 'runner' hooks on the front of the kitchen table to stop the board moving while he works! Brilliant!

2 - Be very careful about timings... I realised in the middle of doing this stuff with my son that I was actually 'undermining' his bigger co-ordination problems by doing this stuff in the weeks leading up to an appointment with his physio. Improvements in this one specific area didn't solve all of his other problems, but would improve his performance on the very generalised tests. Could have found him debarred from very much needed support because of it - a case of foot, gun, bullet!

 

Hope that's helpful

 

L&P

 

BD

[Mumble]

Now..His dad (the ostrich head one) thinks that we should push J to practise all summer, so that by time he goes back to school it will have improved!

 

Hi Lisa -

 

I'm sorry to bring this up again, because it does seem to be becoming something of a theme after reading your posts, but I really don't see what is wrong or 'ostrich headed' about his dad's suggestion (I'm assuming by 'Ostrich headed' you mean 'buried in the sand' or 'in denial'?)

 

Oh, that's not how I interpreted it Baddad. I thought llisa was just demarcating between her son's biological dad and her husband being her son's step-dad. I thought she was using the ostrich thing to make it clear which 'dad' she was referring to through reference to previous posts, rather than saying that he was being an ostrich here. I think.

[llisa32]

Hiya baddad ...the reason I called him ostrich yesterday was cos he told j if he practised really hard for two weeks and then his writing was fine, then he wouldn't have to worry the rest of the holiday. I guess I just called him ostrich cos he see's the writing at mo as 'only' something that requires lot of practice, and not neccessary what may be making it difficult, and thus we may have to change how we approach said practice etc.... So...I didn't disagree with the practice bit per-se...hence my thread..but hopefully you see what I mean now. But consider this...I left him with all the said reports etc last weekend...he gave them back to me yesterday...I didn't ask for them back..they were just in J's bag. I checked with him and he still has not read them cos he didn't have time!..I'm not anti ex's honest...or dad's !...just mines being a pest at moment!

 

And for the record Baddad...I am hugely impressed by the amount of insight you have into your son..and other daddy's should aspire to the same

 

 

You've all given me some great looking advice and I'm going to have a good long read in a while

 

Thanks lots

 

Lisa

 

 

 

I

[Mumble]

Oh, that's not how I interpreted it Baddad. I thought llisa was just demarcating between her son's biological dad and her husband being her son's step-dad. I thought she was using the ostrich thing to make it clear which 'dad' she was referring to through reference to previous posts, rather than saying that he was being an ostrich here. I think.

I was wrong - Sorry Baddad.

 

Mumble

[Viper]

Oh, that's not how I interpreted it Baddad. I thought llisa was just demarcating between her son's biological dad and her husband being her son's step-dad. I thought she was using the ostrich thing to make it clear which 'dad' she was referring to through reference to previous posts, rather than saying that he was being an ostrich here. I think.

 

That's how I read it too Mumble. However if his dad is not accepting he has problems it could affect his treatment of the problem. Handwriting problems is a problem with ASD children and trying to force them to do it wont work.

 

No offence meant to anyone whatsoever.

 

Edited to say, I said problem an awful lot there.

Edited July 19, 2007 by Viper

[llisa32]

And Viper and Mumble

..you are correct...that is exactly the distinction I was making...just explaining why I call him that to baddad...so no detriment meant to any daddies

[llisa32]

Note to self.....do not post in a hurry...cos then I do not word correctly and it comes across as all wrong

 

Hopefully you have all got what I meant now

[baddad]

Hiya baddad ...the reason I called him ostrich yesterday was cos he told j if he practised really hard for two weeks and then his writing was fine, then he wouldn't have to worry the rest of the holiday. I guess I just called him ostrich cos he see's the writing at mo as 'only' something that requires lot of practice, and not neccessary what may be making it difficult, and thus we may have to change how we approach said practice etc.... So...I didn't disagree with the practice bit per-se...hence my thread..but hopefully you see what I mean now. But consider this...I left him with all the said reports etc last weekend...he gave them back to me yesterday...I didn't ask for them back..they were just in J's bag. I checked with him and he still has not read them cos he didn't have time!..I'm not anti ex's honest...or dad's !...just mines being a pest at moment!

 

And for the record Baddad...I am hugely impressed by the amount of insight you have into your son..and other daddy's should aspire to the same

 

 

You've all given me some great looking advice and I'm going to have a good long read in a while

 

Thanks lots

 

Lisa

 

I

 

Hi Lisa - No worries, and as I said in one of your previous posts it was just a 'general' observation rather than one about your situation specifically, which - of course - I know absolutely nothing about!

 

I do, though find this whole subject of 'perspective' (i.e. male/female) to be very complex, and I do think the 'male' perspective tends to be under reported, IYKWIM...

 

I've been meaning for quite a while to do a 'lets hear it for the boys' thread putting over some of those perspectives, but keep putting it off to wait for a period where there isn't something on the boards that makes it look connected in some way! I may have a long wait!

 

Glad I didn't ruffle any feathers . If i'm honest I feel very 'exposed' whenever I touch on this subject , so it's reassuring to know that it's not being taken personally...

 

Hope the suggestions are helpful - and with regard to the five word sentence don't ask when your son's in a bad mood or if he's just watched 'Dick & Dom'

[SarahSH]

Hi Baddad

Think it's great that you are so responsive and involved.

I agree that it's too easy to blame dads all the time for not understanding. And AS dads have an awful lot of insight into it and can be very helpful indeed. And in my view women coping with ASD behaviour need loads of male support in setting boundaries etc and not being over-involved.

 

But it might have been partly my fault about the ostrich thing - I think I did mention the ostrich position in response to one of lisa's posts. I do think it's a way of coping when things get too much, which AS people among others use. Fair enough, but it doesn't actually mean the problem's gone away, just because someone (let's say dad) 's not looking at it any more, and that means good old mum's got to see to it. Do you think that's fair?

I suppose it's just as or more likely to be dad who cleans up in more practical ways, but in my experience - (big family, teacher of ebd kids) - it tends to be mum who does the emotional cleaning up, and maybe (dangerous territory) establishes the family culture too, prioritising what needs doing.

Not that it's a contest of who does most (ho ho)

best wishes

Sarah

[oxgirl]

Hi Lisa,

 

Sorry, haven't had time to read all of the responses, so apologies if I repeat what others have advised already.

 

My lad has always had terrible trouble with writing as well, even now. He would scream the place down if school tried to get him to write and, when we took him out, at 9, he still couldn't sit and write a sentance without making a horrendous fuss. The mechanics of writing was, and still is, just really, really hard for him and he just hated the scribbly, messy results so would do anything he could to avoid writing.

 

When I was home edding I always carried on with the writing practice through the holidays, just because I knew that if I broke for six weeks then, when I tried to start again, it would just be that much harder. For my lad though, it wouldn't have worked to spring a writing session on him out of the blue when he was in a good mood, it would just have caused an enormous meltdown and would have ruined an otherwise good day. Certainly for him, he needed a routine.

 

I took the problems of thinking about things to write and how to express himself totally out of the picture and just concentrated on the actual writing at first. So, I got him to choose a non-fiction book with lots of interesting facts about his favourite subject (insects), and every day, at the same time each day, I would get him to sit down and copy a sentance out of the book. This was the only thing that worked with him, and once he got into the habit of knowing it was 'time to write' he accepted it as part of our day. The first day it took him two hours to write the sentance, because he kept getting so worked up and wandering off and screaming, etc. etc., but I stuck with it and wouldn't let him do anything else until he had done it. The second day it took him about ten minutes! After that it was just part of our day and the improvement in his writing over that period is very evident.

 

Good luck with it and hope you have a good summer. <'>

 

~ Mel ~

[llisa32]

Wow ....I'm going to have to print these replies out and have a good study..thanks all of you soo much

 

Couple of things I've briefly noted...yes it is 'cursive' style writing they are doing at school..and I noticed today that although J writes with his right hand, he holds his knife in his left. I remember when he was little we were a bit confused as to whether he was going to turn out to be right or left handed as he seemed to use both for quite a while.

 

I wonder if this is significant??

[David Matthew Baker]

Wow ....I'm going to have to print these replies out and have a good study..thanks all of you soo much

 

Couple of things I've briefly noted...yes it is 'cursive' style writing they are doing at school..and I noticed today that although J writes with his right hand, he holds his knife in his left. I remember when he was little we were a bit confused as to whether he was going to turn out to be right or left handed as he seemed to use both for quite a while.

 

I wonder if this is significant??

 

 

My bro is right handed but uses a knife in his left. He always puts this down to the shape of the trays at Primary school. He always said he used his knife less and that was the side he always had his pudding. Didn't get so messy that way round was his reasoning. I meanwhile am left handed but eat the normally way around. I'm not sure if eating the opposite way round to what you write shows anything. Just find it strange that we both do things back to front.

[llisa32]

Thanks guys for all of the replies...some of the suggestions I'm definately going to attempt to put into practice from next week. Your responses were all really interesting, and I'm very grateful you all took the time to give me your your experiences. <'>

 

I thought you might find todays writing practice amusing....

 

J was adamant...'no school' 'on holiday' 'no homework cos teacher didn't give me any' 'so NOT doing any writing!'

 

So...I said ok..just write 2 sentances of whatever u like..and u are not going back on Xbox until you have.

 

He shouted that he'd done it and ran back to xbox..I got two sentances that said:

 

'Blah blah blah blah blah blah silly mummy blah blah blah silly blah blah blah' - and that was it exactly!

 

Couldn't fault his spelling though, and the writing was pretty neat!

[oxgirl]

Thanks guys for all of the replies...some of the suggestions I'm definately going to attempt to put into practice from next week. Your responses were all really interesting, and I'm very grateful you all took the time to give me your your experiences. <'>

 

I thought you might find todays writing practice amusing....

 

J was adamant...'no school' 'on holiday' 'no homework cos teacher didn't give me any' 'so NOT doing any writing!'

 

So...I said ok..just write 2 sentances of whatever u like..and u are not going back on Xbox until you have.

 

He shouted that he'd done it and ran back to xbox..I got two sentances that said:

 

'Blah blah blah blah blah blah silly mummy blah blah blah silly blah blah blah' - and that was it exactly!

 

Couldn't fault his spelling though, and the writing was pretty neat!

 

Haha, well at least he did the practice!

 

~ Mel ~

[jb1964]

[*]I have a very odd pencil grip and posture when writing - best described as a left-handed style right-handed grip - because I was made to use my right-hand as a very young child to write whereas if it has developed naturally I would probably be left handed.

[*]I move my whole arm rather than fingers/wrist to write - this uses a lot more energy and I tire easily.

[*]I push very hard with the pen/pencil - again this is tiring and painful.

[*]I hate seeing mistakes and mess - and this is how I interpret my writing.

[*]My writing is irregularly sized and floats above and sinks below the lines - because when the lines are pulsating it's rather difficult to line everything up, it physically hurts my eyes and I get very frustrated at not being able to do a simple 'skill'.

[*]I have immense difficulty writing and listening at the same time - basically I can hear but not process if I am trying to write - so without the support I get in college, I worry that I'm missing things if I write and can't process, or going to forget things if I process but don't write notes.

[*]I have found that when I have to take notes, writing on plain paper (blue coloured is even easier) helps because I'm not worrying about lines - there are no lines to distract me or to worry about whether I've written on the lines.

 

Hi Llisa,

 

I tried to think of how to write down my daughters problems with writing and Mumble you have described my daughter to a 'T'.

 

During primary it was a major issue with the school and they would put immense pressure on her about her handwriting - also for holding the pencil wrong - like her hand is double backed on itself somehow and she also holds it way up the barrel as opposed to near the nib.

 

It was very messy and very small and then as she got older we had the moans from the teachers about 'joined up writing' which she found exceptionally hard and still does- although drawing has never been a problem for her!

 

Her writing has definitely got neater this past year or two (she's 14 now) and her drawing is fantastic so she hasn't done bad for someone who holds a pen wrong.....although she still struggles to write fast if you know what I mean - when teachers are dictating for instance she very often doesn't get all the words and now her writing is much bigger too (sometimes too big).

 

Take care,

Jb

Edited July 25, 2007 by jb1964

[Lucas]

I continue to have very severe issues with handwriting, it was not at all helped by being forced to practice three hours a day throughout my childhood.

 

All it does is take time away from things that I enjoyed, was good at or could at least learn very well. I'm constantly warning people against this idiotic but trendy non-evidence based idea that if a child is lagging behind in a few areas, more time must be diverted towards improvement. What is this obsession with sacrificing excellence for the sake of average all-roundedness which repeatedly fails even with a lot of NT kids?

[Bard]

I continue to have very severe issues with handwriting, it was not at all helped by being forced to practice three hours a day throughout my childhood.

 

All it does is take time away from things that I enjoyed, was good at or could at least learn very well. I'm constantly warning people against this idiotic but trendy non-evidence based idea that if a child is lagging behind in a few areas, more time must be diverted towards improvement. What is this obsession with sacrificing excellence for the sake of average all-roundedness which repeatedly fails even with a lot of NT kids?

 

I totally agree that THREE HOURS is ridiculous! If I ask anyone to practice anything, from tables to handwriting, I make it very clear that 15/20 mins maximum is needed. It also makes sense to keep the interest level very high, and vary whatever you are doing within that practice time.

One of the problems with very poor handwriting is that if people can't actually read what you've written, then you aren't able to communicate what you need to say.

Although word processing, texting and computers are a huge help, if you have an individual whose handwriting is totally illegible rather than just messy, it does need addressing appropriately. And that means not making that person feel frustrated or stupid or angry as a result of your actions.

Have you read Kurt Vonnegut's short story, 'Welcome to the Monkey House'? I read it years ago, before I became a teacher and I've never forgotten it.

[LizK]

My nearly 6 year old has had a lot of difficulties with handwriting but over the last few months something has clicked and he has gone from doing meaningless scribbles and hating to use a pencil or crayon to letter writing being his current special interest!

 

I was told that before a child can write properly they need core strength around the shoulder muscles and it's no point working on the fine motor control if they haven;t got central control. My son like many ASD kids has proprioceptive issues and doesn't know where his body is in relation to itself! He had several OT sessions focusing on core proprioceptive activtites and I wonder if this helped his handwriting. So maybe instead of doing intensive handwriting practice look for fun activities to help his shoulder strength and coordination. He might be too old for this but my son also preferred writing in shaving foam or sand and he'd practise letters or make patterns that way. Wipe clean boards were well received too. Chunkier pens, felt tips which require less pressure, traingular pen grips all helped him too. I think whatever you do in the holidays it has to be short (5 mins a day is better than an hour a week) fun and motivating or else he will just hate hadwriting even more.

 

My son has a letter writing game on his leapster and he'll spend ages drawing and writing on this now. He also likes Words and Pictures website and found a 'magic pencil' game on this website too http://www.kented.org.uk/ngfl/games/writingRepeater_v5.html

 

HTH

 

Lx

[llisa32]

I like the wipeboard idea..I'm going to have a look round one of the major stationary shops this weekend to see what fun stuff is out there at mo regards writin practice/assistance. What I thought might help as well was to re-look at his pencil grip...The year 1 teachers did give me some sheets with exercises on them re holding a pen/pencil etc and wondered if it was worth giving them a re-vist - but I've lost the ones they gave me!

 

J does say that writing makes his hand ache..so that combined with the fact he knows it's messy and hates being wrong is all leading to a hatred of writing at moment.

 

I'm not making a big deal of it with J at mo..just casually saying we will need to start doing just a little each day (and I agree 5/10 mins will do nicely).

 

If anyone has found any tools in any shops lately..certain wipeboards/writing games etc pls let me know or pm me

 

Thanks all

[Bard]

Thick charcoal makes great patterns, and if you hold it too tight, it breaks.

If you can't find a wipeboard, laminate thick white cardboard. You can also draw guidelines on it before you laminate.

Drywipe pens come in different sizes, pen and marker, so he might find a fatter one easier.

Little amounts of writing is less scary; try a scrapbook of stuff where he has to write captions, annotate diagrams. Material that he is interested in, anything from transformers to frogs.

Tracing paper, and tracing pictures helps with a rigid grip and pencil control.

And, as always, if he gets angry, stop. <'> <'>

[llisa32]

Thanks for the suggestions Bard..I'm going to raid the shops on Saturday and see what I can find to make writing fun!

 

Do you think it matters much that he may do different practice at dad's house to mine?...just had a chat with him and he seems to have lost his idea of 'fun' this evening ..says 'he's not faffing about with wipeboards' and will stick to pencil and paper..I said I'd try and find some sort of 'fun' workbook then for his house that J can just do a bit of when he's there - I'm assuming something will exist when I start looking. Just wondering about consistancy really...but guess if we're just aiming for any sort of practice 5 mins a day it's won't really matter if it's different practice in each house.

 

Has anyone got any links to pencil grip/pen grip sites?...the ones where they show you how best to hold a pencil, whats comfy, exercises to do etc??

[Bard]

Just make sure that he starts any letters at the correct point, eg a from the top and curve round like a c.

Then letter heights, b d f h k l t are ascenders, f g j p q y are descenders.

It's amazing how much easier anyone's writing is to read if your tall letters are tall, and your descenders hang below the line.

A lot of word recognition is the shape the word makes on the page, like a jigsaw piece. If the word is the right 'shape' then it's easier to read.

If he just wants to do patterns, then that helps as well. It shouldn't matter if it's different at his dad's, you're experimenting with approaches any way.

For writing websites, you need a younger teacher!

I do the 'snappy fingers, frog on a log' pencil hold, but it's a hands-on demo!

Mumble, elun or summertime might know where you can get online help.

[Mumble]

'Snapy fingers, Frog on a log'?? I look forward to the explanation - I'm obviously far too young!!!

 

Here's a couple you could try llisa:

 

How to hold a pencil. This is useful as the diagram is for both right and left handed people - is J right or left handed btw?

 

Simpler version of above. This might help as the cartoony pics show how to form the tripod grip.

 

As to pencil grips, there's lots of links to various ones on these websites above - I'm a bit unsure about the general merits of these - I've seen them work well for some children and others just being distracted by them. Some of them, prticularly the hard rubber triangular ones, force a tripod grip. It depends what J's main issues are - I quite like the more squishy ones that mould to the individual or foam ones that just make it more comfortable, particularly if he has a tight pencil grip. This is common sense really - if you look at the range of pens available in most stationers, there are often slightly more expensive 'soft grip' varieties - simply because these are more comfortable than the standard plastic pens over a longer period of time.

 

If he does find a pencil grip useful but fiddles with it, I've in the past used the jumbo triangular pencils - easy to hold and control, a nightmare to sharpen!!! (and a sharp pencil is very important both for neat writing and as a weapon against those who force you to write )

 

One thing - I taught an autistic boy once who did really well with a blue pencil grip and then refused to write with the same shaped pencil grip in orange - I would suggest if you do buy any grips, involving J in the buying process - colour may seem insignificant to you, bit it could be an important issue to him.

 

I found an interesting paper here on pencil grip deficits in autistic people which you might find interesting - I'd not come across anything so specific before - normally a general mention in papers on motor skills.

 

Hope that's some help. Oh, and I agree with Bard - different types of practice should be ok and actually give some variety which might be good. What you don't want is to set up a situation where J feels one is right and the other wrong or where he feels responsible because of the difficulties he is having for causing disagreements between his parents.

 

And don't get me started on the letter 'f' re ascenders and descenders

[llisa32]

Thanks Mumble I'll give those a bash...not sure about really sharp pointy things though lucky he has no idea this forum exists and therefore won't get any ideas on what to do with his pencil!

 

Don't worry bout J knowing me and dad slightly disagreeing...he never knows...cos we luv each other in front of him ...he keeps suggesting daddy should get a house next door and then he can just flit between the houses whenever he likes and apparently I can then do daddys washing and cooking cos thats a girls job!...hmmmm said me!

 

So I'll just tell him we're doing slightly diff at both houses so he doesn't get bored

 

There was some debate when J was at nursery as to whether he was right or left handed - it was difficult to tell for a while. He now writes with his right hand, but holds a knife in his left...I have no idea if thats significant or not??

[Mumble]

Don't worry bout J knowing me and dad slightly disagreeing...he never knows...cos we luv each other in front of him ...he keeps suggesting daddy should get a house next door and then he can just flit between the houses whenever he likes and apparently I can then do daddys washing and cooking cos thats a girls job!...hmmmm said me!

Well what are you doing posting on here? There's a bowl of washing-up waiting in the sink, a pile of dirty laundry and the floor to be scrubbed and polished on your hands and knees. Get back to your sink and your female duties! :lol: So good to see that stereotypes don't exist in the 21st century!!!

 

There was some debate when J was at nursery as to whether he was right or left handed - it was difficult to tell for a while. He now writes with his right hand, but holds a knife in his left...I have no idea if thats significant or not??

Don't ask me - I'm just a total wierd mishmash of everything - I know nuurfing.

[wilson]

Hello,

 

Problems with handwriting do seem to be a common problem in children with ASDs. There is a very interesting article by Sheila Henderson and Dido Green, 'Handwriting Problems in Children with Asperger Syndrome' on www.nha-handwriting.org.uk. Or just key in the title of the article to your search engine.

[wishingwell]

Hi,

Read your thread with interest this seems very common problem for AS kids. I covered every angle on hand writing with DS, every gadget, every bribe nothing helped. He just had not got the hand eye coordination to allow him to write with ease. His grip was wrong, he held the pencil to tight and leaned to heavy and after a couple of lines he give up. The letters where to big or to small, they where not evenly spaced and all this caused him great pain in his fingers and give him headaches.

2 years ago Ian Jordan advised me to get him professionally accessed.

What a different child he is now, he can write pages and I have never had to push or persuade him to write since. He has not learned to write in joined up form but his printing is beautiful and his pencil follows across the page causing him no pain now. He is still a slow writer but before the visual testing I was at my wits end watching him suffer.

Hope you too can find an answer which will ease his problem.

[llisa32]

Thanks Wilson and Wishing well...Wilson, I had seen the examples of writing before on another site but not the report, so was very interesting to read - thanks. More food for thought .

 

Wishing well...you've just got me thinking and I hope I am not just about to sound like worst mummy of the year award...but...I have not had his eyes tested at all since the oblig one at around 4ish!..I was thinking I had...but am now pretty sure i haven't! - big oops!. I guess I should get that done sooner rather than later incase the poor thing has a general eyesight issue

 

I feel really bad now...Will make an appt on monday..

 

In general...todays been interesting...I could quote a popular pop song of the moment with words changed accordingly...

 

'They tried to make do my writing, an I said no..no...no...'

 

I found a really great pop up book with basic punctuation in today..as thats something else he struggles with, it had some great jokes and stuff in and silly sentances that sounded bonkers without any comma's etc and I knew he'd like it..managed to entice him through most of playing with that one with me...when we got to the others which were equally fun looking but involved some writing (filling in gaps etc)...then all I got was 'No no no''he actually tried to poach the pile and lob them in the bin!...suffice to say I hid them for today!

[Kazzen161]

The stabilo s'move pen is brilliant for children who press too hard - it makes it impossible. It looks good too. They do LH and RH versions.

[Ian Jordan]

A normal eye test is inadequate for the hand eye coordination needed for writing

 

Info available on my practice website - www.Jordanseyes.com

 

This has info on visual dyslexia, facial recognition problems, asd and vision, dyspraxia and much more

 

You can download 2 free books, one on how to self assess, one a general background on visual perceptual problems. You are not obliged to come to us - but you do need to get some background knowledge and there is more free info on this site than any other I know

 

Hope this helps