Learning difficulties, what is the definition?

[Brook]

Hi all,

 

Have just spoken to LEA, my son has got a statement.

But they said that they had discussed the MLD school that we looked at, and they did not feel that it would be appropriate as he is such a remarkable reader

I told them how decieving this can be as his comprehension is nowhere near his actual ability to read the text, and the Ed pysch did mention at assessment that it could be an isolated savant ability!!!!

 

Anyway they went on to say about 20hrs support in a mainstream, NO B****Y WAY

 

They said that once I receive the proposed statement that I can send my views in, they also looked into ASD provision, and as I've already said the nearest one to us is 25miles away, they too thought it would be too far for him.

 

I then asked what other provision is in our area, I dont think I need to type the reply

 

Would just like your views on what sort of thing would be classed as learning difficulties.

 

Thanks

 

A very piddled off Brook

 

PS Simon, you did mention this in a previous reply, any advice would be appreciated.

Edited August 1, 2005 by Brook

[nellie]

Oh Brook <'>

 

Just a thought, have you heard of hyperlexia? I'm not saying your son has this but it might be worth looking at.

 

Hyperlexia, Hyperlexia - advanced reading ability

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...st=0entry1139

 

 

Nellie xx

[Brook]

Hi Nellie,

 

It's funny you should mention hyperlexia, I have two books on this which I use for ideas with my son.

I mentioned hyperlexia to Ed physc, he went on about savant ability etc...

then he went on to take the ISBN number of my books!

I dont know if it will be mentioned in his report as I should be recieving all the stuff in the next few days.

 

I also mentioned hyperlexia at his SAL assessment, the therapist turned round and said hyperlexia has been springing to mind throughout the assessment, but then she did not mention it in her report, she did admit to not knowing too much about it, and said that she would not be sure who would diagnose it, she said maybe someone like Ed physc.

 

I have always been drawn back to hyperlexia, especially when I read that it can co-exist with ASD.

 

Thanks Nellie, I actually said to my husband, come and look at this reply, it mentions 'hyperlexia', I was so surprised

 

Brook

[bluejean-genie]

Hi Brook,

I don't know if this helps any but my son Nat (13 yrs) has recently been assessed by the Ed. Psych. and in his report he has said Nat has evidence of Hyperlexia as he reads and spells 17+years but his comprehension is only 10.6 yrs. but this has not been mentioned on his proposed statement. He began to read with no help from anyone.

[nellie]

Brook,

 

Yes, it will be interesting to see what the reports say. I would advise you to contact the NAS Education Advocacy or IPSEA for advice and support when you get the proposed statement and reports.

 

National Autistic Society (NAS)

NAS Education Advocacy including Tribunal Support Scheme 0845 070 4002

Website: http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=143&a=3435

 

Independent Panel for Special Educational Needs. (IPSEA )

SEN Helpline: 0800 018 4016

Website: http://www.ipsea.org.uk

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Nellie xx

[Brook]

Thanks for the links Nellie, I will contact them when I recieve proposed statement.

 

Blue jean-genie, my son also learnt to read by himself, I wish I could take credit for it, but in all honesty neither I nor anyone else can

 

I think that fact alone should be taken into account, all they said was "well his reading is remarkable", so they must obviously think because he can read text, then he has no difficulty in other learning areas

 

Thanks

 

Brook

[Zemanski]

funny thing hyperlexia

 

Com struggled to learn to read when he started school which surprised us as he was so verbal

 

then one day when he was 5 he could just read

 

from then on he has had a reading age as high as the tests would allow (if they went up to 65 he'd have a RA of 65+)

 

Com didn't bother to read once he discovered he could though, he said, 'right, now I can read I'm not going to do it any more because then you will stop reading to me'

we had to promise to read bedtime story forever as he just would not pick up a book otherwise.

He's 13 now and we have just managed to persuade him that reading to himself is just as satisfying as bedtime story - still do it when he's stressed though.

 

apparently this isn't hyperlexia because Com's comprehension is up there too - this sudden ability to decode text only counts if the understanding of it is delayed.

 

I have met several children with hyperlexic tendencies and most of them do have comprehension/decoding mismatches but Com and this kid I taught years ago were amazing - could literally read anything at 5 years old and then talk about it (I mean, obviously they couldn't fully comprehend shakespeare or anything but they would have had a pretty good stab at it)

 

interestingly, Com's main mismatch is between reading age and spelling age (only 38 centiles!) - his spelling is average, and his punctuation very poor and this is mentioned in Com's statement because his writing suffers quite badly.

Com decodes exceptionally well but encoding is a very different matter, the other kid I mentioned could do perfect punctuation and paragraphing, etc. at 5 and I don't ever remember him making a spelling mistake.

[Canopus]

A book on technical writing might come in useful. They are primarily aimed at adults who have to do factual writing such as business reports or instruction manuals, rather than at kids, but I find them to be better than most GCSE English books.

 

I had the misfortune to have lousy English teachers when I was at school, and would only really say that I learnt how to write stuff properly after studying books on technical writing. You can find them in most libraries.

[loulou]

Hi,

 

I've just been doing some research on the web on learning difficulties, trying to find out what the definition is.

 

Apparently, there is no universally accepted definition of mild or moderate learning difficulty.

 

I found a WHO (World Health Organisation) publication titled "Classification of mental and behavioural disorders (ICD 10)".

 

Instead of learning disability, they use the term "mental retardation", which i think is absolutely awful and so outdated.

 

Anyway, their classification of mild and moderate "mental retardation" are as follows,

 

MILD Approx IQ range 50-69. Likely to result in some learning difficulty in school. Many adults will be able to work and maintain good social relationships and contribute to society.

 

MODERATE Approx IQ range 35-49. Likely to result in marked developmental delays in childhood but most can learn to develop some degree of independance in self-care and aqquire adequate communication and academic skills. Adults will need varying degrees of support to live and work in the community.

 

I hope that may be of use. I don't personally think it's very individualised, just putting people in boxes.

 

Loulou x

[Brook]

Thanks Loulou,

 

The reason I was interested to know, was that we were looking into getting my son into a special school (MLD), but LEA said he probably would not meet the learning difficulty criteria.

 

Anyway I have decided to continue to home ed him, and have put this in the proposed statement, the school preference part, dont know what the response will be

 

Anyone know about 'centiles', as I've mentioned that my son is an excellent reader of text, but the comprehension is not so good, my son scored 93 on the centile score for reading accuracy, as I've already said he taught himself to read words, and the more I read about hyperlexia the more I am intrigued

 

Thanks

 

Brook

[loulou]

Hi Brook,

 

I've had Kai at home now (not through choice) for 17 months. He has ASD and ADHD (although i'm not convinced of the latter).

 

He's been given a place at an EBD school (for September), which was decided pre dx of ASD. I don't think it's the right place for him and i'm looking into other schools. Two peadiatricians have recommended MLD schools, but like with your son, the LEA say he doesn't fit the criteria.

 

Everyone says to me, "Oh isn't he clever!", because his vocabulary is so extensive and he remembers facts and figures so well. On the other hand, his social/emotional development has been put at 3-4 (he is nearly 7). His auditory short term memory is practically non-existant. He can't read more than 3 or 4 letter words and learnt practically nothing at school. I can't seem to teach him anything either, all he has learnt is self-taught.

 

I feel like i'm banging my head agaist a brick wall

 

All the best,

 

Loulou x

[KarenT]

I've often wondered myself how to define 'learning difficulty'. James is doing well academically at school and like Loulou's Kai we always get the 'isn't he clever' comments. His IQ is around 130. However, I've always felt that James can't be taught anything he doesn't want to learn - he has to be in the right frame of mind and it has to be of particular interest to him to get him engaged. For example, there's no way I could home-ed him because I can't say to him "Let's do x" and have him cooperate - the amount of effort required to motivate him is enormous. Does this qualify as a learning difficulty or not? Does a child have to be below average in intellectual ability or can it apply to the brighter children? I'd have thought that just because a child has a high theoretical ability doesn't necessarily mean that it's easy for them to learn.

 

Answers on a postcard...

 

Karen

x

[Mother in Need]

KarenT, you're describing my son fully! Though emotionally I'd say he is a 'terrible two toddler' in a 12 year old body with the intelligence of a 16 year old. He is dyslexic as well. And yes indeed, I am looking into asking for a statement but school feels he does not need this as he's so bright and keeping up with the schoolwork. They obviously haven't seen him when he comes home...well they have actually, I've shown then video tapes, but they still feel he does not need help

What means 'learning disabled/having a learning disablility'?

Edited August 20, 2005 by Mother in Need

[Zemanski]

As part of a push to raise awareness and improve services for adult AS people in our area we have been having regular meetings with mental health services, primary care trusts, adult learning disability services and anyone else we can get to come.

 

one of the recurring themes is why adults with AS are generally not meeting the criteria to qualify for services from just about anybody.

 

the learning disability side say that they deal only with people with a learning disability and there is a clash because they use IQ as their indicator for learning disability; no other measures are taken into account even though the representative attending the meetings agrees that other factors should be considered - social learning deficits would ideally be one of these.

Learning disability services seem reluctant to see a change in this because it would make them responsible for supporting many more people with no extra funding - probably

 

the IQ level used as the cut-off point for learning disability is 70, anyone over that does not qualify as having a learning difficulty even if they have severe difficulty learning in another area.

For a diagnosis of AS the criteria say that the IQ must be average or above; the cut-off used is generally 70 so if the diagnosis is AS then the person can't qualify as having a learning disability - neat, huh?

 

centiles are just like percentages.

 

the population fits nicely inside what is called a 'bell curve' - like a hill that rises in a rounded slope and then falls in the same way down the other side.

 

http://www.mattmonnot.com/archives/pic/bellcurve-small.gif

 

(please ignore the numbers - couldn't find one with the right scale)

 

most people fit in the middle, at the highest point of the hill which is around the 50th centile because about 50% of people are around average.

if you fall in the 93rd centile (at the far right of the hill, close to the starting level as the slope comes back down)for something it means that 93% of the population is not as good as you are at that skill and 7% are better than you are.

if you fall in the 7th centile (right at the beginning of the hill as it starts to rise) for that skill then 7% of the population aren't as good as you but 93% are better than you.

in other words if you draw a vertical line through the hill at your centile score then anyone to the left of you isn't so good at that thing and everyone to the right is better than you are.

 

you can have different centile scores for different things - reading age, vocabulary, non-verbal reasoning, spelling, writing, numeracy, etc.

these are used mostly to look at potential and mismatches - Com has a mismatch of 38 centiles between reading and spelling, his spelling is in the 58th centile (around average) but his reading is in the 96th centile. If Com had an average or even ordinarily good IQ this mismatch would let him meet the criteria for support because his spelling would probably be around the 20th centile which would probably put it under the 25th centile mark which is where most LEAs admit a child has a problem in an area but he doesn't so his spelling isn't regarded as a problem even though it causes him endless frustration and inhibits his writing significantly.

Com's ed psych felt that his mismatch was significant and so it is mentioned in passing in part 2 of the statement but he was not able to place any real significance on it as it is outside his remit (which would be to recommend support if it fell under the 25th centile)

Serious concerns usually are noted only if the score is below the 15th centile.

 

in some countries learning disabilities are not so closely tied to IQ and academic difficulties - in New Zealand they use the term 'global intellectual impairment' rather than 'learning disability' and it covers social and emotional difficulties and physical learning problems such as dyspraxia as well as the academic.

 

Zemanski

Edited August 20, 2005 by Zemanski

[Brook]

Thanks for explaining those 'centiles', Zemanski

 

I understand it now

 

The Ed psych said that, my sons comprehension of reading was on the 48th centile, and reading accuracy on the 93rd centile, he said because his accuracy was so advanced it made the comprehension seem low, when in actual fact his comprehension is about average for his age.

My mind boggles

 

Brook