What else can i do???

[smiley]

Hiya all,

 

I'm feeling a bit muddled up at the moment - so sorry if this doesn't make much sense!

 

M has been struggling for the best part of two weeks. He's very angry, argumentative and unwilling to do anything that's asked of him. He is not normally an aggressive child. He has become VERY ridgid in the way he thinks. Things have to be 'just so' or he cannot cope. He's begun to go through cycles - ie; i was helping him to get dressed yesterday, i could tell he was beginning to panic, but i wasn't sure why. He kept saying 'i just have to..' In the end he said 'i've only done 4 (he was flapping his arms) and i have to do 3 more - i have to do 7'. He has lots of different thing he has to do, before he can continue or begin to do either whats asked of him or something he wants to do. ( He taps his knees, circles his face with his finger...lots of rituals).

 

I know his anxiety levels are reaching breaking point - Sunday was awful here. He'd been to a friends party the day before. Things like this we prepare for and he usually manages very well. He didn't manage well. On sunday he had a full blown meltdown, was rocking in the corner of his room, he couldn't hear me or see me, he was trying to scratch himself.

 

Now i finally come to the reason i've put this in Education.... please bear with me - i did warn you i'd be ramballing!!

 

Since half term M has had a SNA helping him in the mornings at school - he copes very well and enjoys his mornings. This afternoons are very different. Yesterday he shouted at anyone who came near him and tried to attack the headmistress.

 

I can see my little boy sinking - but i don't know how to help him. The headmistress isn't so helpfull (feels he needs to learn how to handle changes in routine??!). His teacher again, doesn't really know what to do.

 

I spoke to the Ed Psyc yesterday - she's going to 'put a bullet up the heads a***e' ( - her words not mine!!) and try to get in to see him soon

 

I went in this morning and shared some strategies that work at home with the SNA.... and i have an appointment with his consultant on thurs - trying to get the CAMBS referal hurried up....

 

I feel as though i'm running about like a headless chicken! I'm very worried about M, as i said - i can see something brewing. I just don't know what else to do.

 

Thank you for reading all of that - i hope it makes sense!!!!!

[mossgrove]

You're making perfect sense to me! I know exactly where you are coming from, it's bringing back horrible memories of J's last few months in mainstream.

 

I think you are absolutely right to put this in education.

 

I am also horrified by your heads attitude. Our children should be helped to learn how to deal with unavoidable changes BUT is is callous and ignorant to suggest thtat he should learn to deal with changes on the same basis as other children

 

Given that a crisis is looming my first port of call would be the GP to ask him if he will write a letter covering withdrawal of your son for a few days while things are pulled back from the brink (If your domestic circumstances permit this) at least until you can see the Consultant on Thursday. I would keep him off until then even if you can't get a letter.

 

There should be an Autism outreach service in your area who can come into the school and explain tothe school some straegies they can put into place.

 

If you do not have a statement now is the time to apply for one (You could draft the letter today). If you do have a statment now is the time to ask for an emergency review of the provision as his needs are plainly not being met.

 

Meanwhile write down all the problem behaviours you are experiencing before you go and see the consultant so you don't have trouble remembering them inthe meeting.

 

The plus side is that the confrontational behaviour at school should mean they will be supportive of getting extra help, the EP is plainly aware of the issues, and you are seeing the consultant on Thursday, so everything is falling into place if your son's case does need to go (back?) infront of the statementing panel.

 

Simon

Edited November 22, 2005 by mossgrove

[Brook]

Hi Smileymab, <'> <'>

 

As you've already said, your sons anxiety levels are rising through the roof.

This has brought back to me what my son was like at the begining of this year.

 

He was in a mainstream school, he is 7rs (ASD), as he moved into yr1 he turned into

what I can only describe as 'utterly and totally up the wall' (sorry, those words are

the ones that come to mind).

 

He developed phobias, ie.. one was about the motiff on their school jumpers, he got

to the point that he would scream and rip off his jumper, quite strange really as before

he would not take it off, even in the blazing sun.

 

He started to come home from school totally washed out, he would burst into tears

when anyone spoke to him, his eye contact which was previously okay with family

totally went, you would have to call his name about ten times before he would slightly

move his head to acknowledge you, he started to say he was a 'bad person', his

self esteem was zero. The change in him was very frightening and I know just what

you are feeling like now.

 

He too had support in the mornings, but it still did not work out, he began to totally

withdraw himself from ALL children, wanted to sit on his own in every situation at

school, I have since been reading one of my books and all the things that I have

mentioned above are the signs of a 'breakdown'.

 

I got very scared as my son was not like this when he first started school, I think

over time the whole lot of it got way too much, he too started to develop rituals

which in the end used to frustrate him as if he did not want to do them but felt

compelled to.

 

In the end I de-registered him from school, he has come back to how he was

previously, but I know this is not the answer for everyone, it was our intention

to build him back up and reduce anxiety, which has worked, then to find him

more suitable provision (which has proved difficult).

 

You are already doing what you can, hopefully the Ed pysch will get somewhere,

do they have access to autism outreach team? having said this my son had access

but it still didn't work, as strategies have to be followed through when they have

left.

 

I'm sorry I have no advice, but wanted to let you know that I fully understand

what you are feeling right now. <'>

 

Take care

 

Brook <'>

[nellie]

Mary <'> <'> <'>

 

I am so sorry, I know how much it hurts to see your child like this. It certainly sounds as if he is finding school difficult to cope with. It's possible he would have coped with the party if he had the emotional strength but it looks as if he's 'running out of steam'.

 

You could ask for a meeting with the Head Teacher and the SENCO, ask the Educ. Psych. to attend. Maybe ask someone to support you at the meeting. The school are obviously not meeting his needs and must take this on board.

 

I hope you get something sorted out soon.

 

Nellie <'>

[mum22boys]

Have you tried getting in touch with your local parent partnership group? They are there to offer advice regarding school issues. I have not approached them but I have been to a talk held by them and they will liase with the school for you if need be. They do have a website so perhaps you could have a look.

 

Good luck. Hope you get something sorted.

[smiley]

Thank you so much for your advice <'> I just feel so lost at the moment

 

It gets to the point where you feel your loosing control and don't know where to turn - thank you for helping <'>

 

I've called my GP - the earliest appointment they have is thursday morning - i explained the urgency, but thats the best they would do

 

I'm aranging cover for work - little man comes first.

 

Statementing - i was all for beginning this at the begginning of this term (both speech therapist and consultant want it to happen). But, because the school had failed to put anything in place i was told the LEA would want the school to try the EP's strategies first - the school have employed a SNA, but that's it. They have not put any of the strategies the EP suggested into place. Would i still be turned down now?

[mossgrove]

But, because the school had failed to put anything in place i was told the LEA would want the school to try the EP's strategies first - the school have employed a SNA, but that's it. They have not put any of the strategies the EP suggested into place. Would i still be turned down now?

It is possible you will be turned down as there is not enough eveidence that the interventions tried thus far have failed, just evidence thay haven't happened.

 

The fact that your son is close to falling out of the school system entirely may convince them though. This is why your meeting with the Consuktant on Thursday is important as he should know what to say when the situation is explained to him.

 

In the meantime you need to be a real pain in the *rse to the school by insisting repeatedly that they carry out all of their recommendations. Inclusing producing IEP's, carrying out what is written on them and documenting this.

 

If the school come on board in wanting a statement then you may have to bite your tongue a little when they list all the interventions tried thus far in their statement. This can be especially hard if you know that they haven't done what they are claiming, but making it clear to the LEA that interventions have not taken place may be counter-productive.

 

In the light of this, it might be best to meet with the school first to understand where they are coming from before making that decision.

 

All of this means you are set for a lot of meetings and appointments, which must be the last thing you want right now. But I fdo have a feeling that getting as many peple as possible on board now could make a big difference in the future.

 

 

Simon

[smiley]

I went into school this afternoon to speek to the head (also the senco..).

 

M had had a fantastic morning - achieving everything that was required of him.

 

This afternoon he has again, shouted at everyone that came close to him, he was in tears asking to 'be alone'. He sat in the headteachers office for the last part of the afternoon - curled up in the corner, rocking.

 

I spoke to the EP again before i went up to school - she fully suports me pulling M out of school for a few days and will speek to head by the end of the week. She also suggested now might be a good time to begin statementing - something she was previously against.

 

I have asked the head and M's teacher to write down thier concerns so i can take that with me to the consultants - surprisingly, they were both very happy to do so. I think it has finally dawned on them that this is serious.

 

I want to write something so that this is documented and not forgotten - but my minds so muddled im having trouble putting pen to paper - each time just ends up with me in a state . Can anyone help?

[Clarkie]

Hi there

 

Your little man is having a tough time and I know exactly how you feel - especially when the school won't listen. If you can let him stay home to give him some space from school it maybe would help.

 

Is there something that happens in the afternoon that is different from the morning e.g. different teacher, class, unstructured time....?

 

As the head saw him in the afternoon, in the office sitting in the corner rocking, then this should be reported and also be put in the incident book. This is not the behaviour of a happy, thriving child. Ask them to document this incident for the doctor / consultant. Keep pushing them about statementing.

 

As for you writing something down - please don't think that it has to be written in a certain way - just bullet point all the things your child does and try and keep a diary writing down each day what happens or what you think may have caused your wee man to melt down.

 

The thing that these people don't seem to understand is that it doesn't have to be something immediately before meltdown occurs - it could happen hours earlier, a day earlier (or much longer) and our children sometimes have a very delayed reaction. It's also the case where they do save it all up 'til they get home.

 

When you see the consultant take your diary/list with you so you remember to tell them and then it will all be documented in their notes. Tell them you are at crisis point and say that you need an urgent referral to CAMHS.

 

In the meantime here are lots of these <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'>

Take care

Clarkie

[mossgrove]

<'> <'> <'> <'> <'>

 

Sounds like you are doing everything right to me.

 

You're a brilliant Mum, don't let yourself forget it!

 

Simon

[smiley]

Clarkie - lots of changes in the afternoon - sometimes a different teacher, rairly the same TA. A dinnerlady found me last week and said she's been worried about M - he's been hiding under the gym equipment during lunch (it's stored in the main hall) - he's told her it's 'too busy'. I think that's the beginning of the problems.

 

Thank you for all your advice - <'> i've kept a diary - it will be coming with me on thursday.

 

Simon - Thank you <'> You've set me off again!

[nellie]

Hi again,

 

It's great to hear that the Educ. Pysch. is on board and thinks the time is right to start the statementing process. It makes the world of difference if the school and EP are on your side. Hopefully things will start moving in the right direction now.

 

Simon is right, you are a brilliant mum. You will get lots of advice and support here, so hang on in there. It sometimes helps if you carry a note book around and jot down bullet points as you remember them.

 

Keep us posted

 

Nellie <'>

[phasmid]

Lunchtime is his breaking point, that much is really clear to me. Whether it is lunchtime on its own or its the changes that take place in the afternoon that does it (or, and what I consider to be the most likely scenario a combination of both), the afternoons are simply not working. The school need to acknowledge this and address it. I did a research project last year on playtime/lunchtime behaviour and the effect it has on children (all children that is, not just those with SEN). It is a sadly neglected part of the school day. Many schools jsut cannot, in some cases will not, see the difficulties that arise from them - especialy for kids with ASDs.

 

In your son's case it sticks out like a sore thumb to me that he is coping in the morning because he has the support in place to cope. Lunchtime that goes and he cannot take it. This CAN be fixed, if the school are willing to try. A little effort is all that is required. However I think in your case this may well have to come via the statement route. I agree with what Mossgrove has said, this may not be an easy process for you but it may be one you are going to have to ge through just as Simon says, with your tounge clamped between your teeth. Well be here to support you all the way. If I can offer some more concrete suggestions about breaktimes to you let me know.

[Kazzen161]

Have the school filled in ABC charts for the incidents in the afternoon? - this is what they should be doing to try and identify what is triggering the behaviour, and to then decide what to do prevent it. It is the sort of evidence the LEA will be looking for.

 

Could you consider taking him home at dinner time and keeping him home for the afternoon for a few days - it seems a shame to keep him home in the mornings if he is OK then. It very much seems that his SNA is helping him to cope with the things that upset him (changes, etc) and that help is not available in the afternoon. Whether this can be resolved by more understanding from the school and afternoon staff, or from increasing his SNA hours is for the school to decide.

 

Karen

[smiley]

Yes please Phasmid. Anything i can take to school/EP would be a great help.

 

I've been doing red, yellow, green cards with M (i felt like he wanted to get some emotions out - and, when he's feeling calm, this works well for him). Very basic, green for happy, yellow for getting a bit worried and red for very upset. M chats about how he feels when he's 'green' then yellow etc. We write down his answers on each card. This is easier for him than just trying to explain. Usually the 'yellow' feelings are the triggers.

 

These are his 'yellow' feelings -

 

I'm worried.

I miss mummy.

It's too noisy.

I can't think.

Everyones too fast.

I can't eat.

The teachers arn't proud of me.

I don't want to play at play time.

It's loud.

I don't like it when the teachers get me changed for PE.

I'm scared.

 

 

He has tried very hard to express himself - this is hard for him. I really think he needed to get it out.

 

 

Kaz - what is the ABC chart? The school have been 'writing down' the incidents. But not much else from what i can tell. xx

Edited November 22, 2005 by smileymab

[katkin]

Smiley, an ABC chart is a piece of A4 paper divided into Antecedents, Behaviour exhibited, Consequences and another C that I can't remember at the mo. The idea is that it is filled in as soon after the incident as possible. It then can be analysed to see what the triggers can be. Hope this helps, Kat

[Kazzen161]

As Katkin says it's a record of antecedents (what happened before the behaviour - that could be just before, or several things leading up to it eg: a child snatched his paper, teacher said "it's time for PE"), the behaviour (eg: he hid under the table, he hit a child), and the consequence (eg: SNA took him to time-out, he was told off by Teacher). As much detail as possible, and then they can look for patterns (us parents do this all the time!).

 

To change the behaviour, you can alter the antecedent (eg: don't sit him next to a particular child, use visual timetable) or alter the consequence (eg: if he likes going to time-out/being sent home, don't), or help him to learn a more appropriate response (eg: if child snatches his paper - tell the Teacher).

 

You will notice that whichever way you alter the behaviour, it requires the school to be proactive. Keeping the charts themselves, can involve a fair bit of work.

 

Karen

[smiley]

Thank you Kat and Karen - The school have been making a note of everything that has happened. I'm not sure if it's by the method you mentioned, but i will check.

 

M's home today - he's like a little angry tornado.

 

It's 10 oclock and i'm exhausted already. I've never seen him like this - i almost don't recognise him

[smiley]

I popped up to school to collect the letters the teacher and head were going to write for me....

 

Head had 'forgotten' (and was out for afternoon) and teacher came rushing out of the teaching lounge still muching her lunch saying - i'll just do that now.....

 

The letter, though it does say what M's finding difficult, has no mention of his behaviour these past two weeks or what strategies have been tried/or been put in place.... grrrrrrr.

 

I'm (still) worried this is just going to be 'brushed under the carpet'.

[nellie]

No, this must NOT be brushed under the carpet!

 

I would ask for a meeting with the Head Teacher and SENCO. You need to get the school on board, I don't think they are taking this seriously. It would help if the Educ. Psych. could attend.

 

Even if you get the LEA to agree to assess, it will take at least six months to go through the process. Some provision will have to be put in place meantime.

 

I know it's hard, but stay strong, you will get there.

 

Nellie <'>

[Suze]

Hi SMILEY..... do get that request for assessment/statement sorted.My son suffered a breakdown in year 3/4 .We made a parental request, my son was at SA+ and had never seen the ed physch, but he was statemented.They must,nt let him slide further down the slope, tell them to request or you do it this week. Really feel for you, my son went through this , we came out the other side, it,s still not perfect but better. Keep strong, your a great mum, Suzex.

[smiley]

Danmed if i'm going to let them ignore me Nellie - only problem is the Head teacher IS the senco ........... and i've had far too many un-productive meetings with her already..

 

I do know, however, that the EP will be in school friday morning - she's coming in to discuss another child. I've been frantically trying to contact the EP all day - she's been away from her desk... I expect she will be having words with the head on friday - but i want to be there and i want the 'words' to be officail!

 

I now need to persusde the GP to write a note saying M's off school due to stress/anxiety. Problem is, the poor GP hasn't seen any of this and i don't even have a letter from the school backing me up.

 

AAArrrggghhhh! - God, i needed that!

 

Suze - thank you for your kind words <'> The EP has mentioned statementing, so i'm hoping the process will begin with her backing. Bit scared to rock the boat and put it in myself at the moment.

 

I have an appointment with the consultant tommorow - she's great and will hopefully give things a bit of clout!

 

I'm crackered

[smiley]

The consultant has put M on Melatonin and has asked for an urgent referal to the clinical phycologist..

 

GP was very good and has written up everything - so it's all on his notes.

 

The consultant did say the medication was a temporary messure and that M should not be medicated. But she feels at the moment - and until something is sorted at school, that M needs it. She wants me to make it very clear to school that the blame for M's breakdown falls firmly at their feet...

 

And she has tolds me to begin the statementing process with or without the help of school and EP (told me some very scary horror stories about other children ). I have the number for a guy in Winchester...(principal senco..)

 

Back on the phone for me - try to get through to the EP and back to school for another 'chat' with head........

 

Ho-hum

[smiley]

He hated it Gave him the capsule at 6 - he was still awake at 9, he kept rubbing his eyes and saying "i don't like it mummy - take the tablet away now please" - i think it made him feel funny so he couldn't relax..

 

Stupid thing is - he would normally have been asleep before then - the tablet actually stopped him from sleeping

[smiley]

AND another update......(sorry, know i'm going on abit - but it helps to get it out and write it all down... )

 

EP called - she's been into school. Has totally backturned on statementing.... She does however, feel the school are not 'supporting M as they should'. She's sending in an EP-in-training every thursday next term - speciffically for M and to keep eagle eyes on the school.

 

Why do i not feel any better? Am i a bit too close to the situation now?

 

I'm pleased someone will be about to watch the school, but where does that leave M?

 

She said absolutely no point in statementing because she's come up with a plan and (yet again!!!) the LEA will want to see how things go before they statement...

 

And around and around in circles we go .....