nicadh

I popped back for advice about a friend's daughter, but found this and thought I would update. DD has done a year and a term now at her new school and is completely thriving there. I couldn't have been more proud of the end of year report she had last year. Not only has she emotionally been SO much happier and settled, but academically she has for her, come on leaps and bounds. At our tribunal hearing she was reading level 1b book, 18 months later she gained a level 4 in her reading which is completely amazing and age appropriate. Her other subjects are doing well considering and though still behind her peer group at her old school she has come on 2-4 sublevels in a year across most of her subjects, all of which is clearly brilliant progress. I suspect her academic gains will slow a little this year and be more average, but that is just fine. It is just great to have her with teaching that suits her, a class size that works and a school that has an atmosphere that is very supportive and kind.

Hello I am helping a friend appeal a NIL this week at tribunal. I would just like some advice about how to pitch things to the panel really. The LA say the usual "school can meet needs without a statement from delegated funding". She has support in school, but it isn't everything that the NIL says should be happening. I can play this either a) School need a statement/EHCP to enable the recommendations to be met properly as 1:1 support needed to carry this out or School are doing everything possible from the NIL but her NC levels are not improving despite this. I will chat with school before the hearing to find out if they prefer to argue they are doing everything, or they are doing their best but need more help - no time to get this in writing, but they will be at the hearing this week. The child is in year 5 now, and her mother is very worried re secondary schooling especially and wondering if a non mainstream placement would be better. We really need to make this work now so we can get moving on a placement before secondary if possible (considering independent specialist placement where my daughter goes to, so know we will have to fight the LA hard for this.) We don't have independent reports due to finances though which is a frustration. Ed Psych report is not quantified and specified despite the parent asking for this - the EP said she felt unable to do that...same story I was fed when we went through it. We may be able to push that further on the OT input needs however, but I think that is probably not the biggest part of the NIL appeal, but more for a later tribunal re placement and provision. I fully expect if we win this appeal for the OT part to be overlooked completely in any statement/EHCP at least initially. So, advice on things to really focus on would be appreciated please. I had the benefit of legal support for our hearings, I am helping my friend as I have been there before and know some of the process and expectations so I can support her...so, I really want to get it right for the sake of a lovely little girl who deserves better support in school.

Thank you for all the fabulous advice. You have confirmed a lot to me about how to go from here. The parents have just received the paperwork with the reasons for a note in lieu instead of a statement so I should have access to that tomorrow so I can start putting their appeal together for them. An OT referral was requested a few weeks back by school apparently and the NHS have come back and said that until she has completed 50 BEAM sessions in school and some other things they will not even see her. School have managed 5 sessions so far and suggested to her mother that it would be over a year before she would complete 50 sessions!!!! I personally would choose to move her to another school - I removed me ASD daughter from this same school, though I have another DD there with ADHD who is coping ok though school are not great with her issues, and a younger NT daughter who will go there eventually. That decision however is not mine for this little girl and I believe her parents want to keep her at the school rather than look elsewhere. I may broach that topic with them again further down the line though. I think after reading all the advice we will push again for the dyslexia assessment to be done and back off the OT for the time being as whilst she has motor issues they aren't her most major issue and whilst support will probably help her it isn't going to make the biggest impact to how she copes and progresses. If we don't get them to agree then we will at least have it documented and can decide about getting a private assessment done late in the process so it will be harder for the LA to dispute that. Once again - thank you for great advice.

I have a daughter with ASD diagnosed when she was in year 1. She was well supported in her infant school and happy with slow academic progress so we eventually after a fight get a statement for her. She had 1:1 support on her statement but it was lacking other things such as speech therapy so we appealed. Meanwhile she moved up to the linked Junior school and despite her statement the school didn't take her issues seriously. In year 3 the level of work jumped up a notch and her self esteem fell through the floor. She changed from the happy to go to school kid to pleading with me not to send her. Meanwhile once in school she rarely fell apart in front of them so they thought I was making her stress up. The timing did us a big favour and we were able to show a deterioration in her academic performance based on the move but with the support of the current useless statement. Long story cut short we looked at other schools. Mainstream enquiries were met with very negative feelings from staff so we looked to specialist placements. One sounded and looked good on paper but was clearly not right when we went to visit. The other that we saw however felt very different and welcoming, supportive and right. We went to tribunal having changed our appeal to include her placement as well (based on updated private reports) and we were awarded the specialist school we wanted with SALT and OT support for her. She moved last May and the difference was almost instant. Given change is hard for her too clearly this placement was working from early on and now she goes to school happy virtually every day, enjoys her work, does her best to talk to us about her day rather than shutting down when she gets in. However...I truly believe that if we had not found this particular school for her, none of the others we looked into would have been right for her as an individual. Do go and see the schools and get a feel for them knowing your own child and their needs as you know better than anyone.

Hi, am writing this as supporting a friend who is trying to get a statement for her daughter. We went through this last year ourselves with DD with ASD appealing at every stage but won in the end. In this case it isn't ASD but there are issues and one genetic diagnosis in place though other issues not formally diagnosed. We are at the stage that we appealed failure to assess and the LA backed down. Statutory assessment was carried out and now a note in lieu has been issued that we will be appealing. When paperwork was submitted re statutory assessment we asked that they carry out an OT assessment as previously an EP report had flagged motor skill concerns, and also a dyslexia assessment as a screening type test carried out in school previously was suggestive of dyslexia. The EP saw her again as part of the SA and once again flagged motor skill issues but the LA did not get an OT assessment done and the LA/EP did not assess for dyslexia. Is there anything we can do at this stage other than appeal to tribunal? I have yet to discuss the possibility of getting private assessments done which I know will help the case, but I also am not sure the parents will be able to fund these. Is the tribunal able to order these assessments done before a hearing as they were not carried out during statutory assessment? Thank you

I have sent you a private inbox message.

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who posts here especially Sally for all the advice. Much I have read from older posts, other advice came from questions I asked with many useful and detailed answers from Sally. We heard yesterday that we had won our tribunal and our daughter will shortly be starting in an independent specialist school with speech therapy and OT included in her statement. It is a huge relief and she herself is so happy at the decision too as she really enjoyed her two taster days at the school and is very unhappy at her current mainstream school. For those still in this difficult system keep going and be calm but clear about what you need to do and who you need to get you the evidence you require as you go along the path. If we had stopped and listened along the way to the people who told us we'd never get a statement for her or given up when the LA a) refused to assess, refused to make a decision after assessment either way, c) issued a note in lieu, and d) Issued a vague and pointless statement and refused to listen to reason, then we'd still have a child struggling in school and pretty much doomed to fail long term. We had to fight every step of the way, though did manage to get the LA to back down for a) and c) without resorting to a hearing. It was pretty much two years to the day since we started the whole statementing process. Keep going, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Great news - that is the next hurdle cleared. Now to make sure the statement is legally binding and says everything it wants to say.

Star! Thank you Sally. The LA have thankfully looked at a shared taxi for costs though will still be questioning the figure - perhaps I am wrong but the amount seems high as an additional cost for a taxi already running with one child. OT and SALT already sorted for the independent provision. One of my main arguements is about noise in the class as she had APD in addition to other needs and can not cope in a busy classroom, so that is one of our main reasons to move to independent, but other things such as the SALT and OT on site will back this up nicely. I'll check out the IPSEA link thank you and keep looking into the figures to be sure what they may or not be up to! n

Just received LA documents for tribunal and they have only calculated the additional costs of SN provision in mainstream to compare against the costs of the independent ss that we have asked for. They have quoted previous judgements to back up their method of doing this - are they right or have they cherry picked what suits and actually they need to look at the costs of having her in mainstream in the first place too in all this? Hope that makes sense.

In our case these sorts of documents were completed then put to a panel for consideration. If they felt that the answers warranted further investigation (which they did for us) then the referral was made to the autism team to start the diagnostic process. We had a bit of a wait, then had a 2 hour interview (parents only) with one of the consultants where a detailed history was taken and lots of notes made. Our daughter was seen in school by a speech therapist from the team and observations in class and some 1:1 work were recorded. The panel then further considered the case in light of all of that info and the result for us was then what I assume was an ADOS test for our daughter - she was in a room with the speech therapist she had met previously and was from her point of view playing, but actually was being cleverly manipulated into certain conversations or encouraged to play in a certain way and her responses and reactions were monitored by a team watching with a video link and 2 way mirror (with us there). We then got the diagnosis verbally after that assessement was completed. The whole process took around a year to complete with the waiting times here.

We are yet to view the school that I think we might want - this has been a real last minute thought. She only moved to this (Junior..from Infant) School in September. The school have always struck me as failing to understand her but the real crunch for me has come with the comments from the independent specialists who have viewed her in school and their feedback as to the total lack of understanding they have of her needs. They are kind of putting the current statement in place now after a big moan at them in October. In terms of moving her the reason I am reluctant for LA SS is that she probably has too much language for a language unit, but an ASD place would not really be appropriate as she doesn't like difficult behaviour from other children at all. She has mild sensory needs and this is a small part of the OT issues we are pushing for - currently they are written into part 2 but not part 3, so hopefully should get some input for that, which may sway our case better. The school (that I may want) when I spoke to them suggested they may have a place in September but currently not looking too likely any time sooner. DD is not school refusing but she is getting increasingly less happy at school. In the scheme of many children she is mild on the whole school anxiety thing at the moment - but then she loved her Infant school, these issues have only happened since she moved. It will probably just get worse. The school has small classes (of 8 so perfect in my opinion as major issue is focus for her and distractions around her) and have their own OT and SALT as well. Still trying to get hold of the legal advocate for more discussion knowing the ins and outs of the case, but failed to get through today. I will keep trying. Thankyou for the input once again.

We have private OT, Ed Psych and SALT coming, and the LA have the NHS OT, NHS SALT, SENCO and specialist teaching service coming. The ST service report is a load of rubbish and easily dismissed, the SENCO is pretty useless but will lie quite happily, NHS SALT hasn't done any standardised tests and only saw DD in class for a while (for the first time ever) and this is the basis of her report (Private SALT has been in class and done standardised testing) and NHS OT an unknown quantity re report but spent a lot less time with DD than private one did and she also informed me she has never been to a tribunal so my hope is our arguements will be a lot stronger in all areas. Our Ed Psych rocks and the LA are not even sending theirs (as I backed her into a corner over quantifying/specifying and probably got her in a lot of trouble with her managers!!). Thanks for the input over the school choices. I am going to speak to the legal advocate about things and have contacted a couple of schools now to try and view. One has space, one does not. Can the LA agree a school that does not have space but we are willing to wait for (keeping DD at the same mainstream school meantime) if the estimated wait is say 2-3 terms??

Briefly - tribunal coming up in Jan 2013, appealing parts 2 and 3, not part 4. If we were to get all the support we are asking for it would be quite a bit including SALT and OT support. Currently she is in mainstream school. Do the LA ever suggest an alternative placement when this hasn't been discussed formally at tribunal? Is it something they are allowed to do even?

Thank you for the replies. I am going to try and have a good chat with her next week about things. She has been very much doing as she has been told by the previous school (Infant) and now the Juniors too. Time to help her get pushing and demanding and know her the rights her son has to support. I will print this out and give it to her.

Hi - Not specifically ASD related but was talking to another mum at the school this morning. Her DS has been falling behind significantly since starting school, now in year 3. School have now told her that they suspect dyscalculia and dyslexia but have then gone on to say that if she wants him assessed that she needs to pay for this. I know that the LA no longer provide EP services to the school for free but that the school has to "buy in" packages of visits. I don't think this is right at all for the parents to be expected to pay. I have suggested she challenge them on this and also suggested she apply for statutory assessment as then surely they can not make her pay for the EP? It does sound like he may need more help putting in place anyway so SA may be her best option but I am so angry that the school can act like this. Is there anything in the SEN code of practice etc that she might be able to challenge them with here in black and white to back her up in asking the school to pay for this (assuming not going through statutory assessment at this point)? Thanks.

Thanks Sally - We had the response from the LA this week and their arguements are thankfully pretty poor as far as I can tell for most of the reasons against the provision we are asking for. I am pretty angry though that they sent an ASD specialist teacher into the school to observe DD and write a report for them to base their case on. I was not informed of the visit (though have signed many permission forms so may well have included this sort of thing in the past as a blanket permission) and the first I knew of the report was when it came to me in the bundle of papers with their case for standing against us in the appeal. On the plus side the conclusions she drew are a load of rubbish. She has documented things like DD reminding a TA that there was a particular activity to do that afternoon and suggested that shows DD can be organised. The reality of that is that DD is obsessed with routine and will go all out to ensure that everyone involved is reminded so that the routine is kept. She can not organise herself in terms of her work or posessions though. It shouldn't be too hard to prove, there are private reports being done just before the deadline for evidence submission. As for the wording - we have legal representation and so far are very pleased with the service. I am sure they will not let us down and let the LA get away with anything, but I will be alert to underhand tactics for sure.

Thanks Sally - we are off to tribunal in the New Year over the content of the statement anyway, so will save the bigger guns for after that has happened if things are not being put in place then, but will keep at the school for the rest meantime. Right now the school are taking advantage of the wooly wording that I challenged from the word go.

Hi Susiemumof3 Sounds like you are doing the right thing keep pushing for the professionals to see him. It is so easy for school to turn a blind eye if the child is not causing a major headache to them and probably hard from them to understand the description you give them of the behaviour at home if he is an A1 behaviour student at school. We have the same with DD who keeps it all in at school and rarely melts down there (cries if she does) but can be a nightmare at home. She will hit her sisters, shout, throw things and stamp her feet while shouting and losing it!. At school she would be mortified to even say "boo" out of context if you get my meaning. We have just changed schools (infant to Junior) and the new school so far are really not taking her diagnosis and issues seriously. I was grateful for her Infant Head Teacher coming to a meeting and explaining that they have seen DDs difficult side come out just once at school when she didn't know there was a teacher watching but lost it with two boys and shouted at them. Just maybe the school are taking us a little more seriously now. You know your son better than anyone so keep being his best advocate here. If you think he needs the help you are probably right. Keep smiling...but I know it can be hard.

Well, good news, the school have magically found a slope for her to use. Funny how things change the minute after I come in the class and they know they can't lie to me any more. Anyway, the right thing has happend at least. Now to address the other issues the school isn't dealing with....

That's the sort of thing I was expecting yes, but instead she has an A4 lever arch file to lean on and school have told me that she has a writing slope. No confusion over wording, and I saw the file for myself this morning after doubting DDs description of her slope. Surely the school can not expect her to use this instead of a proper slope?

Hi - DD has a statement which says she must be provided with a writing slope. School have supplied her with an A4 lever arch file to use. Googling seems to suggest that this sort of thing isn't that out of the ordinary - there are even clip on bits for A4 files you can buy so presumably the angle isn't that bad as a slope? However DD says the paper slips etc so clearly it isn't working for her. Anyone with specific knowledge of why this doesn't work and a proper slope would so I can argue this one out with the school. She used a slope in her last school (wooden one) with no problems.

Thanks Sally - we have old OT reports but she was signed off the NHS service a couple of years ago (funding...no surprise) and school have asked to re-refer her but have been told they need to complete some scheme with her before they will consider seeing her. School are working through the BEAM scheme with her daily now to get her attendance at that completed so OT will see her. Sounds like I need to look at a private OT report however. Any suggestions where I can locate a local private OT?

Thank you Sally. Her OT issues are to do mostly with fine motor skills including her writing but also her gross motor skills are behind too. She also has some problems with auditory stimuli (intollerant of loud noise really) documented in part 2 and listed as part of an objective in part 3, but with absolutely no provision at all in place for helping re the noise issues. I have in writing from both the LA EP and the private EP that she should be taught to touch type as she finds writing so hard going, but again the statement is useless as it does not provide her with any equipment for doing this and part 3 says something wooly along the lines of "consideration should be given to teaching X to touch type, and other ways of recording her written work". The private SALT report is now a year old but I will have no issues with getting another up to date one before tribunal. She has seen the private SALT since she was 2.5yrs old and still sees her every other week. The private EP report is a good one from Jan this year and the LA refused to quantify anything in their report (I have my request and their refusal in writing!) and that is going to be what we have to rely on at tribunal. We can afford to have the private SALT and EP at a hearing though so that will be a big help. lots to consider and thank you again for the advice above.

Thank you both - DD is 7yrs old, finishing year 2 mainstream and moving to the linked Junior school in September which I am happy about (for now!) and is in her finalised statement. I have an independant EP and SALT report already and will get an updated SALT report nearer tribunal time I am sure. They have agreed to 20hours LSA for her already but I want her to have full time in class (25hrs) so need to push for this, and I want to increase the SALT input. There is no OT provision in part 3 although they have listed problems that require OT input in part 2. Some of the arguements I think should be easyish to win, but others such as more SALT may be harder to push for?? Mostly I think it is wording otherwise. They have put lots of "Consideration will be given to..." type phrases in there and refuse to define things more clearly.