Exclusion from school

[LizC]

Hi well as many of you know Matthew has been having problems at school, he won't do anything he is tol, disrupts and doesn't want to go to school, they have a job getting him to do anything, well this mornign the teacher said that they may have to exclude him from school! I don't know what to do but I am mad, isn't this discrimination? basically they said he is becoming a danger to the other kids and had the cheek to ask if anything had changed at home! no but it has all changed at school though!! Why can't they hurry up the statement process, why does it take so long? he needs to be in another school or small unit but until he gets the statement he gets nothing (and we don't get the support either!) has anyone else found themselves to be in this situation before?

[Karen A]

Lizc.Hi I am not as knowledgable on this as others however I know exclusion threats crop up on the forum fairly often-so hang in there others will be able to help.I do know that if your child is threatened with exclusion and they have ASD it may well be a case of discrimination.It is worth contacting Parent Partnership for advice.It is worth writing to the Senco and headteacher stating that you are extremely concerned that in the current situation exclusion has been suggested.In our case we were able to use the mention of exclusion in our evidence requesting assessment-We said that it showed the school were not coping and an assessment was needed urgently.It is worth putting something in writing for that reason alone.

How far are you down the statementing route ? You could also contact the EP to discuss the threat of exclusion it may move things along.

It is worth doing a search on the forum as I know there has been some excellent advice on here before for people in your situation.Karen

[Kazzen161]

Lots of our children have been threatened with or are excluded.

 

>>basically they said he is becoming a danger to the other kids

 

did they give you examples of what they mean by this? what have they put in place to prevent this?

 

See www.ipsea.org.uk for excellent info on exclusions.

 

Karen

[oxgirl]

Hi well as many of you know Matthew has been having problems at school, he won't do anything he is tol, disrupts and doesn't want to go to school, they have a job getting him to do anything, well this mornign the teacher said that they may have to exclude him from school! I don't know what to do but I am mad, isn't this discrimination? basically they said he is becoming a danger to the other kids and had the cheek to ask if anything had changed at home! no but it has all changed at school though!! Why can't they hurry up the statement process, why does it take so long? he needs to be in another school or small unit but until he gets the statement he gets nothing (and we don't get the support either!) has anyone else found themselves to be in this situation before?

 

Hi,

 

Your son's behaviour sounds very similar to my son when he was at primary school. They struggled and struggled with him, even after he had a statement, but it seemed there was no other placement suitable for him.

 

One day the Head Teacher took me aside and said that if we were to make an arrangement whereby they excluded him it would force the LEA to give him the help that he needed. We were very tempted, actually, but in the end decided to take him out and home educate. Two years later he does have a placement in a Unit.

 

All I'm saying is, just because they have threatened it it doesn't mean that they will follow through and if, in the worst case they did, it could end up with you getting the help that you need. I know this is not something anyone wants to go through, of course.

 

Very best of luck with your situation.

 

~ Mel ~

[desperate]

Hi there

We all know that our children are constantly being excluded from school. The ASD diagnosis is not a safeguard against this happening. My son Neil did a total of six terms in school, and no home education was provided whilst he was out of school. The lea said that they had no home tutors qualified to teach an asd child with his level of difficulties.

Unfortunately small units or special schools are not always the answer either. These also use exclusion on a very regular basis if the child is exhibiting behaviours that are a threat, perceived or otherwise, to either themselves or others.

Most asd units are attatched to mainstream schools, the pupils still have to attend classes with nt children and abide by the conduct code of the school. They still have to conform to what is deemed to be acceptable behaviour and they still struggle to be part of a world that is very difficult for them to understand.

Many special schools either residential or day are not asd specific and the staff are often no more "asd friendly" than a mainstream school staff. The pupils have a variety of special needs from ebd, adhd, conduct disorder etc. and this can make the classrooms more difficult for the asd student to cope with because of the very diverse and complex needs of every individual, not just one or two.

Very few asd children are funded at asd specific schools due to the high cost of these establishments and many more go through a system of failure upon failure.

I fought really hard over the years to get some educational provision for Neil, that would help to mitigate his difficulties and provide some basis to give him a future he could feel was worth while and valued.

His perceived failures have left him with less self esteem and personal value than he had before we started on the long road of battle, he has no qualifications, trusts no one and never leaves the house.

Had I had the time over again I would never put him through such ordeals again, the pain was too great for so little return.

[Kathryn]

Hi Liz,

 

I haven't been in this situation but I know many have.

 

Here's a link to IPSEA exclusion information sheets which may be useful.

 

K x

[LizC]

Hi again, thanks for all your help. basically his behaviour is he disrupts the class he hides under desks etc, on 1 or 2 occassions he threw a chair and ran out of the school but this was because of being placed into another class with teacher he didn't know etc, they now know not to do that now. he always kicks and lays on the floor on a morning as he doesn't want me to go!

 

the ep can't see us until 13th Nov (our next meeting) we are in the process of either going down the statement route, going to an infant assessment unit or a school for autism near by, they are just gathering info at the moment (whatever that means!) don't know what is going to happen or what to do for the best, he is so stressed out, he hates going to school, but I need the break! if he is excluded then I won't get any break from him, I know that sounds awful but I am suffering with depression and it will only get worse!

 

anyway, he did have a better day today, so heres hoping he has a good day tomorrow too and hopefully improve and then it won't come to exclusion!

[bramblebrae]

The autsitic outreach teacher helped us alot when S was threatened with exclusion. He had been fine for first few months of first year at school and then we're still not sure why probably a combination of illness + antibiotics + trying to many activities too soon (my bad) and lack of support which till this point he hadn't shown he needed really, anyway he got quite aggressive with staff and children over a couple of weeks and eventually when they threatened exclusion I was like but it's because he's got autistic spectrum disorder and finding things difficult to cope with just now and they(school) said it wasn't anything to do with it and so I asked what did the autistic outreach teacher say and they were like oh shes too busy we didn't see the need to ask!! She came in and worked wonders with him and continues to do so even now. She tries to advice the staff too but how many of them listen is doubtful. I keep waiting for them to back down on his support because he is doing quite well but it's all staying in place so far..so fingers crossed. Though he still has little moments or the odd bad day on the whole it's much better.

 

Hope your area has some sort of outreach service that could maybe advice the school on furthur strategies to help your DS. I know sometimes they can get advice from more experienced SEN teachers at special schools hopefully AS trained ones.

 

take care

Lorraine

[Frangipani]

the ep can't see us until 13th Nov (our next meeting) we are in the process of either going down the statement route, going to an infant assessment unit or a school for autism near by, they are just gathering info at the moment (whatever that means!) don't know what is going to happen or what to do for the best, he is so stressed out, he hates going to school, but I need the break! if he is excluded then I won't get any break from him, I know that sounds awful but I am suffering with depression and it will only get worse!

 

Hi Liz, <'>

 

No real suggestions can only say it reminds me of the situation we were in before my son made the transition from Preschool to mainstream.

 

I wanted my son to go to a Catholic school, none of the schools in the area would take him, I could never understand why? but my doctor of all people was really worried about my son getting the best placement so he found a school 20km away from where we lived that was Catholic but had a special school in the same suburb just incase it didnt work out. I have heard from many mums in Aussie that the Catholic schools provide funding and exceptional care for ALL special needs children, and, you do not have to be a Catholic these days to enrol, although we were.

 

We had to move to this area and everything, but it was truly worth it, they interacted with the Special School and the Special School provided workshops for my son while he was still at the mainstream school. The Special Needs teacher put together a strategy for his behavioural problems as they labelled him ASD with ADHD during the year he was label moderately disabled by ADHD to severely disabled with ADHD. So as you can see my son was a handful, but they managed. He had to take meds to make him teachable.

 

The lady at the special needs school had just had an intake of 12 children, and she said my son needed to be there more than all the children she had just taken in. We were unable by law to go on the waiting list to get into the school, the only way we could do this was have him move to a government school then he would be eligible to go on the waiting list, because he attended a Catholic school, they were unable to put him on the list. How rediculous is all that.

 

Eventually my son got the best of both worlds, the ability to stay in mainstream, but a huge support network from 3 teachers at school, an after school workshop, and a lot of private therapy I had to maintain.

 

So just letting you know what we faced, but we got there. So I just wanted to say hang in there, have you got a good Paediatrician to fight the wars for you, ours certainly did, he came to the school had meetings over the years with any of the teachers that simply didnt get it, to fight and make sure my son got the best support and respect for the difficulties he was having.

 

Dont give up, get those boxing gloves on if you have to. You have to stand up and be heard to get some action.

 

When my son got into Year 5 I moved both my children to a private school so they could remain in the same school till Year 12 after a year and a half I realised they couldnt handle him and were just putting him in the too hard basket, I had several meetings to try and resolve things and the counsellor basically said to me straight, he is much better off in the government school as they get more funding than we do for special needs. We were paying a small fortune at this school. When I moved both my kids out they both said how much happier they were with the government program. My daughters results skyrocketed. Just a bit of food for thought. Schools can let you down, especially if they just dont have the facilities or expertise. <'>

 

Hope this turns around for the best very soon.

 

Fx

Edited September 28, 2006 by Frangipani

[Fagsandbooze]

my asd son has been excluded more times than i can remember even a permanant exclusion. He is now in a mainstream school and doing ok, i won't hold my breath though, if you know what i mean.

My advice would be trust your instinct, if you think he's not happy, tell them in no uncertain terms that you are going to defend him no matter what, because if you don't who will?

Never agree that he is naughty, he's not, he has aspergers.

[loulou]

Hi Liz,

 

Just wanted to say that i went through a VERY similar situation with my son Kai when he was 5. He was in a mainstream school and undiagnosed. Kai behaved the same as Matthew. He used to spend most of the day under the desk (growling). He used to lash out at other children and teachers, threw things, tore up his work and ran away from the school. At the time i didn't know what the hell was going on, but now i know that it was because he was absolutely petrified of the place and he wasn't being understood and his needs weren't being met.

 

He ended up being excluded twice (at age 5!) and was just labelled as "naughty". After his exclusion he developed school phobia and refused to go back (i dragged him to school and he ran across a main road to get away).

 

To cut a very long story short, i had a massive battle on my hands but i stuck to my guns and fought the LEA for what i knew was right for my son (ie a special school placement). He was at home with me for 18 months before i finally got him into a special school. He is now doing really really well in his new school (he's 8 now and has been there for a year). He's probably only kicked off about three times at school in a year rather than every day in his old school.

 

So please please go with what you think is right for your son. As others have said, you can use this exclusion threat as "evidence" for your son's statement. And also i agree that you should contact Parent Partnership and the EP to let them know what's happening.

 

I am really thinking of you, because i know how awful it was for Kai and for myself when we went through this. I ended up with derpression over it all but i'm doing fine now. Things WILL get better though, you just have to be strong and fight for it <'> <'> <'>

 

Loulou xx

[LizC]

Aww thank you all very much! Matthew is still haveing quite a bad time at the moment altough today he has been alot better, quiet but still not doing any work! Monday they couldn't get him to do anything no strategy worked and the head couldn't get him to calm down, she was running after him as he was heading for the buzzer on the door and then out, she had to resort to locking him in her office with her. he was then going in and out of the toilet door in her office. she had no chocie but to call me in and take him home, she was totally understanding and felt bad for us and told us it is no punishment.

 

one thing I am wondering if he does get excluded what happens to him in the time he isn't there I.E any education or work to do at home? I just can't see how this will help him when he is already behind the rest of the kids.

 

also he won't do PE, he won't get changed, he just watches, his teacher is getting used to this now.

 

right got to go it is late!

[Karen A]

I think there are clear written rules that state that after a certain number of days[15 I think but others will know for sure]the LEA have to make arrangements for education for excluded pupils.I am sure others will tell you where this is in legislation.Karen

[annie]

Hi Liz,

 

We've been there too . This may help ACE

 

As others have said, exclusion will help (sadly) to prove that things aren't working at the moment and add weight for the need for a statement. I would suggest that you keep a record of incidents/conversations where exclusion has been mentioned. If an exclusion has been threatened and not carried out, at least you have a record that it has been threatened, and why.

 

Annie

<'>

[jlp]

Hi Liz.

 

I had to reply as Matthew sounds a lot like my son who is 6 and in Y2. He's in mainstream but struggling and protesting - even when he isn't kicking off he isn't actually doing much. He ran out of school after me on Friday and I didn't know as I'd waited unitl I saw him go in then left. He's disruptive, he currently likes to stick his head through the back of the chair and push it about! He's also becoming increasingly aggressive, on Friday 3 teachers were scratched and kicked.

 

I'm beginning to think that even though we like this school (and they are good and flexible) that he needs a special school or similar. Mornings are worse even though he has 1-2-1 then. We have a meeting on November 9th and it seems a long time away. I thought the statementing process was going to start in September but we have a new head and I think things have been delayed a bit - like you we're currently gathering information.

 

G is in his 2nd mainstream school, he was excluded (only for a day for kicking his teacher) from his last one and it was generally murmered that that school weren't doing what they could to help. The new school have been great but he's been excluded from there too before (actually I'm surprised they didn't again on Friday).

 

I have told school to feel free to exclude him if they think it will get him the help he needs, they don't like to though (the time he did he had attempted to strangle a child). Don't feel too bad - take it as a sign that at least it is obvious that they are not coping and this will ultimately get you the help you need whether it be a statement or another school.

 

One thing you mentioned - PE - stood out as G often refuses to do PE. This turned out to be mainly because once in his old school the classes clothes had all been mixed up and he couldn't find his. It obviously worries him a lot but most days now he will do PE but he has a 'safe' place (doesn't matter where really just somewhere he feels reassured that they won't be lost) to keep his clothes. I thought it was the noise or not knowing what to do (and some days that does come into it if he's stressed anyway) but it turned out to be something quite simple to solve.

 

Do you have a home school diary? We've just got one this term and I love it! I write far too much but it's very useful to say if he's upset about something and to hear things that have happened rather than just the 'biggies' when you get called in.

[LizC]

Hi again. well with Matthews behaviour the way it is the EP wanted to see me today and I have signed a form to get the statementing process underway and he is also going to refere us back to the centre where he was diagnosed so hopefully won't be too long before we hear from them again. the school nurse was taking too long in getting back to me so thankfully the school ed p could refere him back!

[Karen A]

I am glad things are moving.Hope they can see Matthew soon.Karen