silly at school, teaming up with the 'naughty' kids......please help!

[multitaskermumof3]

hiya everyone....

 

 

just one of my million questions!

 

my 6 year old is so silly at school...he says silly things, wanders around when hes meant to be doing work, giggles and carries on with another boy in particular who is always in trouble! he will copy anything that another kid is doing...even down to cutting his hair and clothes! every day i dread what the teacher is going to tell me he has done. he isnt naughty the school say, he just appears to have no idea what consequences are. its almost like he doesnt know if he does something wrong, myself, his teacher etc wont be too happy! he doesnt appear to be too fussed by punishment either. last night i made him put his playstation and games out to the bin. he loves the playstation and yet he wanted to talk about when it would be collected by the bin men!!!!!! he cried for a few minutes at first, but then was fine about it. i would have thought a 6 year old boy would have been devastated. i know his 5year old brother would have been if it was his toys.

 

when he comes home he is just any other 6 year old boy...okay he has a few traits that are not what you would call normal, but hes a responsible boy who wont fight, argue or get disruptive. he is a likeable, laid back boy in general.

 

ive tried everything i can think of to make him think before he does something wrong at school......but he deosnt seem to take notice. he goes the next day back to the same group of naughty kids. has anyone got any tricks that they tell thier kids and it works? im open to all suggestions...even bribery- although that hasnt worked either.

 

he has seen the school doctor who said in her report that he appears to have aspergers syndrome. this was about 4 weeks ago.

 

what i wonder is....why is he silly at school and mixing with the boys who really arent his friends. they are the naughty kids who my son is attracted too. if my son really has aspergers, wouldnt he be silly all the time? how can he be so good at home and silly at school?

 

after a tough 2 weeks of being called to the class teacher every day, i could really use some advice and see if my story sounds like anyone else out there? i find im continually having to defend my son at school to the other mums as he is known by the other kids as silly. but im begining to wonder if he is just a silly immature 6 year old and that he doesnt have aspergers at all!!!

 

 

 

thanks for reading and i hope i make sense......

[llisa32]

Hiya.....I have several times resorted to saying ' I have my weekly chat with the headmaster tomorrow' - 'yes,,,we have those every week (not!

 

I'm lucky that J see's the headmaster as being very in charge and if I mention that I'm duty bound to inform him of bad behaviour at home sometimes it works!

 

Don't know if they give out tokens/stickers for good behaviour at your son's school...but maybe thats worth giving a go at home? - weeks worth = treat at weekend etc

 

Thats also been pretty good for me

 

Hope that helps

[multitaskermumof3]

hi there...

 

thanks for the advice.

 

he has an IEP at school and he gets stickers to show he has been good, but he doesnt repond to that really. i did a chart at home to take into school....he got a walk to feed the ducks, or a trip to the park if he got 5 stickers in the boxes. never saw that chart again as it was a waste of time. he really wanted the stickers on the chart to get that walk to the park...but he doesnt remeber about the rewards when hes up to silly tricks in class.

 

its hard to explain!!

 

 

i will try reward tokens for every day hes good at school........thank you for your ideas!

[Karen A]

Hi We have had similar problems at times.Children with AS can be easily influenced by other children.An understanding of the implications of following other unhelpful ''role models'' is gained slowly and specific guidance using specific strategies [Eg Social Stories] may be needed.Also usual strategies in terms of sanctions do not always work as well partly because without specific guidance children with AS do not have the skills to manage situations differently.Hence even if they are upsett when they have got in trouble they cannot do anything different the next time.The other thing is that long term implications may not be understood-so the fact that the playstation is in the bin does not equal it will not come back.It sounds like you could do with a bit more support at school.

If the school Dr thinks AS is a possibility has anything been communicated to the teacher.The school need to be aware that your child may be experiencing difficulties due to AS rather than him being blamed for difficult behaviour.Also you do not need to defend your child with other mums-if problems are in school and they have an issue-let them take it up with the school-they have no right to be coming to you. Karen.

[loulou]

Hi,

 

I just wanted to say my son can be really silly at school too. He seems to be attracted to "naughty" behaviour and is always copying others. He has AS and ADHD and is 8.

 

I do sometimes think he acts silly as he feels awkward and doesn't know how to act, so he just acts silly and misbehaves. He also teams up with the "bad boys" and gets into trouble, when really he is a sweet boy. These boys aren't his "friends", but they know he'll be silly with them and get the blame for their behaviour. He's an easy target as he's so naive.

 

His old school (mainstream) and myself have tried stickers/reward charts for good behaviour but have never been successful. He cannot link his behaviour with the consequences and definately doesn't learn from his mistakes. He sounds very similar to my son too, as punishments don't seem to have any affect on him.

 

I don't know what the answer is for your son, except that maybe he needs more support at school. Maybe the staff could try to keep them seperated and keep an eye on your son during the more vulnerable times (ie in the playground). I really feel for you, as like many on this forum, i've been through the "other mums" thing in the playground and it's not nice .

 

Goog luck <'> ,

 

Loulou x

[MichelleW]

I agree that more support needs to be put in place at school. Regardless of whether he has a dx or not, if he is showing "vuneralbilty" and the teachers can see he is being influenced by other children, then the teachers and staff should be aware and watching out for problems.

 

J's school was really good - we had an incident in year1 when 2 children were influencing J to kick other children. The teacher spotted it, and as well as explaining to J that he shouldn't kick other children, she also bought in the parents of the other 2 children and said they were not only bullying the child that was getting kicked, but also a special needs child who was being influenced to do the kicking. The teachers words were " we've nipped it in the bud and will watch out closely for J at playtime" and she was so apologetic as well.

 

I think I have been very lucky that J has had so much support without a statement.

[KateBall]

hiya everyone....

just one of my million questions!

 

my 6 year old is so silly at school...he says silly things, wanders around when hes meant to be doing work, giggles and carries on with another boy in particular who is always in trouble! he will copy anything that another kid is doing...even down to cutting his hair and clothes! every day i dread what the teacher is going to tell me he has done. he isnt naughty the school say, he just appears to have no idea what consequences are. its almost like he doesnt know if he does something wrong, myself, his teacher etc wont be too happy! he doesnt appear to be too fussed by punishment either. last night i made him put his playstation and games out to the bin. he loves the playstation and yet he wanted to talk about when it would be collected by the bin men!!!!!! he cried for a few minutes at first, but then was fine about it. i would have thought a 6 year old boy would have been devastated. i know his 5year old brother would have been if it was his toys.

 

when he comes home he is just any other 6 year old boy...okay he has a few traits that are not what you would call normal, but hes a responsible boy who wont fight, argue or get disruptive. he is a likeable, laid back boy in general.

 

ive tried everything i can think of to make him think before he does something wrong at school......but he deosnt seem to take notice. he goes the next day back to the same group of naughty kids. has anyone got any tricks that they tell thier kids and it works? im open to all suggestions...even bribery- although that hasnt worked either.

 

he has seen the school doctor who said in her report that he appears to have aspergers syndrome. this was about 4 weeks ago.

 

what i wonder is....why is he silly at school and mixing with the boys who really arent his friends. they are the naughty kids who my son is attracted too. if my son really has aspergers, wouldnt he be silly all the time? how can he be so good at home and silly at school?

 

after a tough 2 weeks of being called to the class teacher every day, i could really use some advice and see if my story sounds like anyone else out there? i find im continually having to defend my son at school to the other mums as he is known by the other kids as silly. but im begining to wonder if he is just a silly immature 6 year old and that he doesnt have aspergers at all!!!

thanks for reading and i hope i make sense......

 

This is not at all unusual I don't think for as children or those with autistic traits. I've found sticker charts etc. hopeless in the long term. DS just doesn't learn and needs to have reinforcement every day as if he's never been told before. At school they have a strategy chart - giving my ds targets - a list of do's and don'ts and consequences (good and bad) if they occur. They just follow them every day and hope for the best not expecting him to ever learn enough not to have to use it but just making sure he has a visual guide each day to follow.

Understanding at school is also the key. I think they need to try and steer your child away from the "naughty" or disruptive children - or those that bring out the worst in him. For example my son's school made sure that he had a different lunch period to another child. The problem was that my ds was mimicking the bad behaviour and didn't know what he was doing was wrong. He needed a good role model. The NAS website has some really good information about all sorts of strategies and environments the school should adopt. Look at those under the heading of info for education professionals. I think you need to ask the school what they are going to do for your son to help him rather than expect you to be able to do anything.

[JsMum]

Hi he does sound to be very distracted, and maybe bored with enviroment he is in, does he get any 1-1 support that would help him focus and supervise if he has things that could be dangerous to him, the sissors for example.

 

Your son sounds very impulsive, has he got ADHD, many of the symptoms you describe in your sons behaviour in class are typical of ADHD.

 

Distracted, (interested in how others are behaving) impulsive, (sissors, giggles) restless (walking around the room)

 

J isnt a naughty boy but can dominate others, manipulate, and become un coperative when stressed, and finds a particular subject challenging, so misbehaves to divert the task.

 

naughtyness isnt what its intended to be, its the child communication, if he cant verbalise it, it comes out in other ways, destructive, obstructive, hyperactive, fidgeting, mind somewhere else, drifting ect.... or self stimulation, the feeder in this case is the other child, who may have similair issues but not yet identified. ( I bet he gets a diagnosis of some sort of learning difficulty if he is always getting into trouble)

 

Your son is displaying behaviour that needs to be addressed and supported, observed and support in place.

 

I would reommend a educational ed psych to observe him for a possible learning difficulty because they come with behavioural difficulties.

 

JsMum

[pearl]

I always found with J it was more a case of the naughty kids being attracted to him rather than the other way round, they would set him up to get him in trouble.

 

I used to long for him to have a "sensible" friend - still waiting.

[LittleRae]

Has the teacher tried breaking his day down? Rather than rewarding for the day, could she or TA reward for 30 minute slots of good behaviour? That way, if he has say, 8 out of 10 30-minute slots of good behaviour, he could get his reward? My DS has the attention span of a newt and I find that if he is rewarded immediately, he is quite happy to behave for another 30 mins or so.

[multitaskermumof3]

hello all....

 

 

thanks for al the replies......lovley to hear some words of wisdom from you all!

 

the class teacher has started a sticker chart and he has to get so may stickers on the page. i am dubious about it but we shall see how it goes.

 

no, he doesnt have adhd. the way i describe him is like hes bounding about the class full of mischief! well, hes the opposite really, he doesnt have quick actions or movements, he talks slowly as hes really thinking about what hes going to say. hes also not bored in class, he just has no attention span at all, unless its for the playstayion. he forgets what hes meant to be doing after a few seconds and then wanders around reading stuff, fidgeting and asking lots of questions! he is not agressive of highly strung, doesnt shout or upset people.

 

had a chat with the mum of the other boy in the class who appears to have behavioural problems like my son and suggested they dont go near each other in class as this would benefit them both. she seems to think that her son is copying my son. i know this is clearly not the case all the time. so, after my great idea of trying to get together with the other parent and work this out, it was a waste of time.

 

asked the teacher to try and keep the boys seperate, but she just said its dificult and that they are apart doing lessons.

 

my son defiantley needs to have one to one for him to get his work done. sahme, as hes a bright little lad.

 

 

thanks for listening.....

Edited May 16, 2007 by multitaskermumof3

[JsMum]

" he just has no attention span at all, unless its for the playstayion. he forgets what hes meant to be doing after a few seconds and then wanders around reading stuff, fidgeting and asking lots of questions"

 

Children With ADHD dont nessacarily have aggression issues, and they are not always highly strung they have low self esteem to be honest, and low confidence.

 

I think a read of a book on ADHD may help you understand ADHD a bit more.

 

There is also ADD. which is without Hyperactivity and behavioural problems and learning difficulties are common signs of ADHD too.

 

Sticker charts will work for very short periods and this isnt a statagy that is very successful for the kinds of signs in your son, I really would push for an assessment, or an observation from the ed psych.

 

I think the other boys mum has may be taken offence to the accusations that you have presented to her, and it does look like you are not really having it that it could be actually your child who does just as much as the other boy who has behaviour problems.

 

keeping them apart is going to impossible because they are going to in each others groups, I would of wanted to look at introducing team building games, social skills, and more early observations to determin just who is annoying who.

 

Its not just the thick kids who have LSAs, it children who are struggling to access learning potential.

 

The very beginning of your very first post also has made me more sure that your son has an underlying learning difficulty because A lot of children with ADHD get so many negative lables and number one is Been Silly, your son is displaying a significant signs that he needs a proper assessment to determin actually it is that is going on that makes him So silly.

 

 

JsMum

Edited May 16, 2007 by JsMum

[Bard]

he has seen the school doctor who said in her report that he appears to have aspergers syndrome. this was about 4 weeks ago.

 

what i wonder is....why is he silly at school and mixing with the boys who really arent his friends. they are the naughty kids who my son is attracted too. if my son really has aspergers, wouldnt he be silly all the time? how can he be so good at home and silly at school?

 

Mine is.

B has AS and was dx at 9. Before that he was being handled as a child with behavioural problems at school.

He had few problems at home with silliness, aggression, lack of concentration or any of the issues that were difficulties at school.

Home is quiet, ordered, he has his own room. We have house rules that are constant and unchanging.

Home is clear and uncomplicated for him, he knows what is expected and where the boundaries are.

The problems he has at school are almost entirely with his peers, not adults or concentrating in class.

It's the spaces in between, with the insults, horseplay, shoving, rude jokes and general chaos of Y7 that end up making him lose control.

 

You said ' if my son really has aspergers' Do you doubt the diagnosis? Are you going to follow it up?

Understanding that my son has AS was a revelation, a key to unlock certain areas of confusion and bewilderment. The more I learn, the better able I am to facilitate Bs interface with the NT world.

It's not perfect, but so much more makes sense.

[jools]

" he just has no attention span at all, unless its for the playstayion. he forgets what hes meant to be doing after a few seconds and then wanders around reading stuff, fidgeting and asking lots of questions"

 

 

my son has asd and add.

to have add or add traits he does not need to be bouncing off the walls. G has never done this. his attention howevcr is attrocious unless doing something he really wants to do such as playing football on the computer!

[multitaskermumof3]

well..where do i start.....

 

firstly, i didnt say on any occassion that i think my son is the innocent one and that he doesnt do silly or naughty things. of course he does..he does it every day of the week!!!! dont doubt for a second that he isnt doing the stuff the teacher said he is. perhaps i explained myself wrong???

 

another point to clear up......i did not for a second mean that kids with adhd are bouncing of the walls! i re read what i had written about him wandering around, cutting his clothes, saying silly things.....and i felt like i had written about some kid who was high as kite having a really naughty day at school!! i had written about him not having adhd in the same paragraph as i was rambling on and got onto explaining what he is like. i do not know anything really about adhd so i wont comment on it. i was not saying thats what kids with adhd are like. i have a friend whos little boy who has adhd and he is not like that at all, hes a lovley quiet liitle lad....although i know all cases are different. if anyone took offence to what i wrote then i apologise, but i didnt not mean that at all. im no expert and can only go by what the proffessionals say. no one has suggested adhd so far anyway.

 

 

the mum at the school took no offence whatsoever about me saying about keeping them apart. i know her quite well. she knows her son is a joker and he is at the headmaster on a dailly basis..pushing, hitting, throwing stuff, saying rude words. she is fed up having to be called up to the school every week. her son i might add has given another pupil a black eye!! my suggestion to her was we try and encourage our sons to play with other kids....not just stick together and be constantly in trouble. i want to do the best for my son and if i think that telling him to stay away from other kids who get in trouble too then i will do it. his school teacher said that my son and the other boy are a very bad mix. if someone tells my son to cut his hair of, he will and has done! the other mum likes my son and what i was annoyed about is that she sees no need to keep the 2 kids apart. i told her its in their best interest. the class teacher has aaid the same thing to both of us and i agree.

 

 

i have review of my sons ep in june, then he will be seen by the ed phsyc. he has seen the school doctor and occuptional therapist.

 

 

i have never wondered if he has adhd or add and ive not read much about it as i didnt feel there was any point. he is a very clever boy....excels in reading and literacy. he has no learning difficulties and the issues the school have with him are behavioral.

 

i'll tell you a bit about my son if you dont mind.....

 

 

he had little speech at the age of 3 half and when did talk he missed the start of every word out. he had spech therapy for 2 years and now youd never know it. he has lovley speech but he speaks slowly and as the school doctors report says...monotone.

 

he talks over anyone who is talking and i havent mastered the knack of interupting him! he will talk until he has said what he wants to say! he prefers little eye contact as he says he forgets what hes saying when he looks at me. he will use the wrong facial expressions at certain times. he has no friends that can be called proper friends. he has little facial expression. he doesn like hugs, just to be stroked on his arm. he eats and chews anything he can...in school this is a big problem. he fidgets and will try his best to find a book to read instead of sitting on the carpet nicely at school! he takes forever to do simple tasks. he cannot cope if he has a blank piece of paper to work on, but can produce some work when the page is structured. he has to wave to me 5 times every morning goiung into school. he is unaware of authority and consequences. at school they are doing visual stories to see if he does better with that. there is an obvious delay before he responds to a question. you have to call his name at least 5 times before he responds. he is very clumsy and doesnt appear to know how close to get to people. he is very poor at catching, throwing, kicking a ball. has no idea how to work as at team. he wanders round at football and doesnt care about the scoring golas part of it!!the occuaptional therapist said he doesnt look at targets....i have no idea why. he has mildy hyper mobile joints. he says the most inapproprite things at times and just doesnt seem to have the knack of what to say or what to do when hes with his peeers. he much prefers teachers company and calls them friends. he is obsessed with the playstation...this si the only thing except a book that can catch his attention for long periods of time!! he loves maps, astrononmy and computers.

 

he is not an aggressive boy, never causes arguments, always shares, isnt naughty intentionally....most of the time! doesnt get upset no matter what others say to him and doesnt see that others will be upset if he says something he shouldt abou them.

 

 

anyway, sorry for long post.......just to give you an idea of what my wee boys like. i have read tony attwoods book and i have bought another book today to see if that has any ideas in it.

 

does nayone have knowledge of doctors who get it wrong and maybe the diagnoses isnt correct and can change as more proffessionals become involved? as im told, he ticks the aspergers box and thats why he behaves the way he does. but does anyone think hes ticking other boxes too after what youve read about him?

 

 

thanks for reading....

Edited May 17, 2007 by multitaskermumof3

[hev]

hello lovey <'> i never took offence and my son got adhd /aspergers so dont worry!!

 

i think it would be impossible to keep your son away from the other boy,this will crop up with different kids throughout his school life,its best to try to learn how to deal with his behaviours with the school if poss.

[multitaskermumof3]

hello lovey <'> i never took offence and my son got adhd /aspergers so dont worry!!

 

i think it would be impossible to keep your son away from the other boy,this will crop up with different kids throughout his school life,its best to try to learn how to deal with his behaviours with the school if poss.

 

 

 

thank you so much........i try to type messages so quickly on here amongst looking after my '3 wee monkeys' as i call them...and things dont always come out the way i mean them too in a hurry!!

 

 

i was just looking for advice.....not wanting to upset anyone...

 

 

xx

Edited May 17, 2007 by multitaskermumof3

[witsend]

Hi multi.............I haven't been upset or offended at all. All I wanted to say is that when I read your first posts I was struck by how much your son sounds similar to my my youngest son - he has ADHD. Then when I read your later post when you gave more details about your son I was also struck by traits he has the same as my eldest son - he has AS.

Don't know wether that'a helpful or not it is purely an honest observation.

Take care

Luv Witsend.

[multitaskermumof3]

thanks witsend.....appreciate yours and everyones comments. i hope to seek more advice on this site and will try to re read to make sure what im writing is what i mean!

 

 

thank you

 

x

[Bard]

I copied your post, because so much of what you wrote reminds me of my son at 9.

He is learning to read my signals, so some things we can control together.

 

he talks over anyone who is talking

he will talk until he has said what he wants to say!

he prefers little eye contact as he says he forgets what hes saying when he looks at me.

he will use the wrong facial expressions at certain times.

he has no friends that can be called proper friends.

he has little facial expression.

he eats and chews anything he can...in school this is a big problem.

he fidgets and will try his best to find a book to read instead of sitting on the carpet nicely at school!

he takes forever to do simple tasks.

he cannot cope if he has a blank piece of paper to work on, but can produce some work when the page is structured.

he is unaware of authority and consequences.

you have to call his name at least 5 times before he responds.

he is very clumsy and doesnt appear to know how close to get to people.

he is very poor at catching, throwing, kicking a ball.

has no idea how to work as at team.

he wanders round at football and doesnt care about the scoring golas part of it!

he just doesnt seem to have the knack of what to say or what to do when hes with his peers.

he much prefers teachers company and calls them friends.

 

Lots in common!

Except...

 

he loves archaeology, history and cats.

 

But I could also list an equal number of positive and appealing qualities that he possesses, as I bet you could about yours!

 

Keep in touch, there's lots of help here.

[jools]

not upset or offended here

 

there are some similarities between your little one and mine.

G is dx dyspraxia, asd and has traits of add

[hev]

thanks witsend.....appreciate yours and everyones comments. i hope to seek more advice on this site and will try to re read to make sure what im writing is what i mean!

thank you

 

x

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