Older Dads to blame for Autism ?

[Bard]

A few years ago, when my son was in internal isolation with the head teacher, the Head of Governors came for tea.

And she looked at him, doing his work, and said in hushed, pitying tones ( because she'd see him before)

' Oh dear, what sort of family does he come from?'

 

And my head told her. Knocked her stereotypical response on its *rse.

 

I would love the opportunity to be bone idle but have never been given the chance.

I was and am the parent of an academic high-flyer and a social success, before B.

And we have many degrees in this house, certificates, doctorates and awards and all sorts. From real universities and everything.

My little sister was a social worker and they don't know everything, or sometimes anything.

[baddad]

I think in the end, are people in denial and refuse to accept any form of condition because they have lived with it all their lives? to them it is normal to others like myself it has been very hurtful, and I sufffered depression, blame, fear and weight gain. We will think inside the box. Gilly x

Hi gilly

- obviously not a comment on your own situation, because i know absolutely nothing about it, but certainly for most of those who obtained dx as adults here denial is the last thing they're thinking about. Most express quite painful memories of growing up and feeling different from everyone else and suffering depression and anxiety through not knowing why they feel that way. Most are painfully aware of their differences - not trying to hide them. People can feel socially inadequate for all sorts of reasons and react with violence for an equally diverse range of reasons. Many, many women (and men come to that) find themselves on the receiving end of domestic violence or in relationships with people who see violence (for whatever reason) as an acceptable solution to their own frustration or an acceptable means of 'control' over those weaker than themselves...

Non-expressive face, aggressive distinctive glare, nervous laughter, failure to recognise the needs of others, unprovoked violence... I can think of several diagnostic criteria that fit that list of symptoms, and while autism might be in it, it's certainly not at the top of the list.

 

As I say, not a comment on your situation because i know absolutely nothing about it, but in general I feel that if there's a scenario that involves autism and violence it's just as likely that the 'violence' element arises from exactly the same kinds of imperatives as it does in the non-autistic community, it just happens to be an additional factor in the individual. (if an autistic person has a cold, he doesn't have it because he's autistic, he just happens to have autism and a cold. If an autistic person is violent, he's not violent because he's autistic, he just happens to be an autistic peron who is also violent...)

 

[hev]

baddad i thought steve was violent and aggresive cos he is autistic though,due to frustration etc,do you not think that?

[Bard]

but in general I feel that if there's a scenario that involves autism and violence it's just as likely that the 'violence' element arises from exactly the same kinds of imperatives as it does in the non-autistic community, it just happens to be an additional factor in the individual. (if an autistic person has a cold, he doesn't have it because he's autistic, he just happens to have autism and a cold. If an autistic person is violent, he's not violent because he's autistic, he just happens to be an autistic peron who is also violent...)

 

 

Whenever B has had a meltdown, it has manifested itself in violence. I can almost always identify the fuse that lead to the meltdown. The stimuli that trigger a meltdown, as opposed to just getting cross and frustrated are linked to his AS in most incidents, and when they are not there, he is not aggressive or violent.

So we must agree to disagree BD, B's incidents of violence are linked very strongly to his AS in my opinion.

That doesn't mean that I excuse them, or avoid dealing with them, just that I understand that if I wish to prevent aggression, I need to give him alternate skills and strategies to deal with situations and individuals, or remove the stimuli, or accept that he will meltdown and deal with consequences when he is calmer. Without the AS, I don't feel that he would be any more violent than the average NT boy of 13 from a similar socio-economic background and family.

[baddad]

baddad i thought steve was violent and aggresive cos he is autistic though,due to frustration etc,do you not think that?

 

 

Yes, I agree about the additional frustrations etc, and was primarily talking about adults rather than adolescents...

I think autistic adolescents and autistic adults tend to deal with their anger and frustration in different ways: rage in the former case because they don't have any other coping strategies (and also because of biology, boys between say 14-19 are at their most aggressive), but as they get older they internalise it far more and are likely to become self destructive when their coping strategies break down... I don't think there's any hard and fast 'rules' and certainly autistic people are as capable of aggression as anyone else, but i just don't think they're any more capable of it...

Most of the autistic adults I've worked with have been generally quite passive unless something or someone challenges them... The 'challenges' might not always be easy to see/understand, but I've rarely seen indiscriminate aggression of the kind you'll see outside of pubs on a saturday night, or even hanging around outside of Maccy d's on a saturday lunchtime.

 

Dunno - interesting topic though!

[pookie170]

Hmm.....I must say, that when Cal has had a violent meltdown, I don't feel that the violence itself is caused by his autism.....

Like Bard, I know that whatever triggers my sons meltdown is linked to his AS. If he can't regain control, then he often resorts to violent behaviour. His inabilty to deal with the situation/trigger is due to his AS, but the oftimes resulting violent behaviours are ones that many kids access in times of stress and frustration. Where I think Cals AS comes to the back to the fore at this point, is that he cannot recognise when his behaviour becomes totally unreasonable/dangerous and he lacks the strategies to regain control. Does that make sense?

I also agree that he is not, by character, any more violent than most NT boys his age, in fact I think he's probably less so. His violence is completely non-premeditated but the kinda scary flip side to this is that he cannot think through the consequences of what hes about to do or is doing.... His condition often leads to a situation where violence may rear its ugly head, but his reaction is not really any different to that of his peers.....maybe a bit stronger, I suppose, but not many 10 year olds are all that great at self control. I fervently hope that we can help him learn more acceptable strategies to deal with frustration, particularly at the moment, as if the neighbourhood bully starts in on him again and Im not around, I dread to think what might happen.

Oogh, rambling again!!

 

Esther x

[Gillian Roberts]

Hmm.....I must say, that when Cal has had a violent meltdown, I don't feel that the violence itself is caused by his autism.....

Like Bard, I know that whatever triggers my sons meltdown is linked to his AS. If he can't regain control, then he often resorts to violent behaviour. His inabilty to deal with the situation/trigger is due to his AS, but the oftimes resulting violent behaviours are ones that many kids access in times of stress and frustration. Where I think Cals AS comes to the back to the fore at this point, is that he cannot recognise when his behaviour becomes totally unreasonable/dangerous and he lacks the strategies to regain control. Does that make sense?

I also agree that he is not, by character, any more violent than most NT boys his age, in fact I think he's probably less so. His violence is completely non-premeditated but the kinda scary flip side to this is that he cannot think through the consequences of what hes about to do or is doing.... His condition often leads to a situation where violence may rear its ugly head, but his reaction is not really any different to that of his peers.....maybe a bit stronger, I suppose, but not many 10 year olds are all that great at self control. I fervently hope that we can help him learn more acceptable strategies to deal with frustration, particularly at the moment, as if the neighbourhood bully starts in on him again and Im not around, I dread to think what might happen.

Oogh, rambling again!!

 

Esther x

 

Hi Esther, I totally agree with everything that you have said. My son is 11.1/2 years old, having gone through 7 horrible months at High school, the usual disruption of class, detention, answering teachers back in a matter of fact way, fears of open spaces, wondering if someone is waiting for him around the corner, running away from school because he felt safer at home. Frustration, not being able to understand more than one instruction at a time, has led to my son's diagnosis of AS. Education board have now moved him to a smaller school there is only 180 students, the anxiety levels have dropped but his confusion to social interaction and understanding of simple social play and jokes creates the meltdowns and he has become verbally abusive, swearing and commenting on peoples faults, like fat boy and get the mole on your face out of my face. all very funny to us but can be upsetting to the receiver and rude to the teacher.

What can I do to calm him down, I ahve a punch ball on a stand for him to vett some frustation and energy out at night, I continually write notes for him to follow through the day, you can tell him how to behave, how to be polite and show manners and my son has all of them, that I am proud of but when frustrated they all go out of the window and this little monster appears.

 

Had a massive meltdown last Thursday, had to take day off work, I think I am the trigger at home, its difficult to shut down, where you want some order, your child says he doesnt care, cant do it wont do, dont have to do attitude. A simple tap on the leg triggers off a hitting match on my arm. I have to ask him for a cuddle. Asked him to come in for tea, because he was happy with his pals and not interested in tea I shouted " IN NOW" he came into the house, decalred I had embarrassed him in front of his pals and started banging doors, throwing stuff in living room and then started kicking and punching me.

 

Hacve spoken to my doctor, she is lovely, we have to decide on a traffic light system. RED - punch the boxing ball till he calms down, AMBER - he goes to his room to have quiet time and GREEN - where he lets me know if its ok to come and give him a hug. I ahve read lots of books, its still hurts me that my boy 7 months ago was quiet, but outwardly confident but strugled with school work. No aggression all.

 

Reassurance has always been there with him. Even though he may be good at something he will always ask if he has completed his task ok.

 

I have a meeting with the Peadiatrician, SEN Officer, and have been put on the CALHMS list. I need ANGER MANAGEMENT and some visits with the phsycoligist. I think his problems go deeper, High School has only brought it all to the surface.

 

Sorry for going so long, I only have a few people to turn to, this forum is a great help.

Gilly x

[mossgrove]

Sorry for going so long, I only have a few people to turn to, this forum is a great help.

Gilly x

 

Please don't worry, it's what we are here for!

 

Our eldest son sounds like a slightly younger version of yours, we are dreading what will happen when he gets to high school.

 

Simon